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Elderly Dad Medical Situation, hBPD queen/martyr Mom on warpath, I handled wrong
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Topic: Elderly Dad Medical Situation, hBPD queen/martyr Mom on warpath, I handled wrong (Read 932 times)
todayistheday
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Elderly Dad Medical Situation, hBPD queen/martyr Mom on warpath, I handled wrong
«
on:
August 11, 2023, 11:18:49 PM »
(A few details changed in case anyone is lurking)
Boy, would I love a glass of wine, but cholesterol med I'm on can't be taken with alcohol.
Characters:
Mom - hypothesized BPD (hBPD) by my therapist and most likely is. Age 84
Dad - sweet, henpecked, totally afraid of Mom, married 61 years Age 87
Me - scapegoat kid growing up, live 100 miles away, but often caretaker
Sister - lives nearby, golden child growing up, retired, does some caretaking.
Dad's regular Doctor
Specialist Doctor/surgeon/friend - all same actor - best in his field in this region.
My childhood was hell. I escaped Mom via college and career, I learned to control how she treats me. She knows I'll walk away. Dad has never been able to escape. He's afraid to stand up to her. Unfortunately, he's never learned how to NOT poke the bear. So she's on him all the time about whatever he does or says. He either needs to stand up to her or totally retreat if peace is what he wants.
I'm at the parent's house for a few days. Dad has a medical issue. hBPD mother is on the warpath and making it all about her. Dad wanted to check it out several years ago; Mom objected because she would have to drive him everywhere for a while.
Queen Mom now makes it all about her.
I came to town. Mom and I were in room at the Dr. consult. The condition was one that out of the first doctor's area. He was referring Dad to a surgeon/specialist.
The best specialist in the area happens to be a good friend of Dad and me. He knows the rest of the family too, but not as well.
When doc said he was doing a referral, I immediately said the friend doctor's last name. That was the practice that the referral was going to after reviewing lab results the next day (which would have been today).
Mom is saying that first doc incompetent and thinks it's malpractice that he let Dad get this sick. When what really happened was that Dad put things off because of her.
I texted specialist friend with heads up and description of condition. Specialist texted me back in 5 minutes and said he was calling Dad's primary to get more information. He was extremely concerned about symptoms. He has facilities to get immediate lab results. Specialist texted me back about 10 minutes later and said get over to his office IMMEDIATELY.
Specialist set up Dad for surgery at 7am today. He called back last night to see how Dad was doing. Called my cell -- that's the number he has had for years and that I texted from. When he called, he said he'd keep me updated during surgery "at this number".
All day today hBPD Mom's been sighing, huffing, puffing, snorting, saying G-d help me and Oh G-d. Not in a prayerful manner.
After procedure, surgeon/specialist/friend did call my cell to assure us that all is well before coming out to talk.
In the recovery room, the nurse said to Dad that he's had a bad few days. Mom popped up and said "not as bad as me having to deal with it. He's been sleeping most of this time." (Diverting attention back to her from Dad.)
Now Mom wants me to go to the follow-up appointment Tuesday morning. She does not even want to go to the appointment. Because the surgeon "has no respect" for her. That he only wants to talk to me. I had already planned to drive them to it, but now I don't know. I had told her earlier that I would only go into the appointment with Dad if two people could go in, because she's the one doing the majority of the post-op care. She's mad because specialist is calling and texting info to me and not to her. She refuses to even get a cell phone and all he has are my and Dad's cell numbers. And was the one who texted him, so that is why he calls me.
Unfortunately, I already told her that I could get Tuesday off. I live in another city. Sister who is retired lives in walking distance of their house. She and I chatted earlier tonight before the s--t hit the fan She is willing to be the driver.
In her fit, Mom prefaced it by she wasn't mad at me or at surgeon, but that the surgeon treats her like she's "invisible" and "senile old lady" and that is disrespectful. I don't see that at all. She wants to be center of attention when it needs to be Dad. The rest of us need to help HIM.
I am going home tomorrow.
She's been yelling at Dad and calling him stubborn and uncooperative.
I knew that she was going to be difficult -- she has been when he was sick in the past. She calls him a hypochondriac. The facts are opposite. He tells me more what's going on medically than he does her because he doesn't want her wrath. She has accused him of faking symptoms for other things in the past until they turned into emergencies. Which she did this time too. I can think of at least two other emergency surgeries. And another time, she took him to the ER doubled over in pain. She said he was an over-dramatic crybaby. She said that she was wasting her time taking him to ER because he was only constipated. Diagnosis - kidney stone. Which we all know is very painful, whether we've had one, or been fortunate like me not to have had one.
Back to the Tuesday situation, I know that she's so stubborn that she will not go into the office on Tuesday if I'm there. I think I need to make an excuse why I can't go with her and get my sister to take them. But it would be pretty obvious. Something work related, or medical or appointment for me or my husband? Although my parents both need some care-taking, they are mostly independent. And when healthy, they both drive. Getting close to the time that they shouldn't. Not for Dad until he's well.
no good choices. I should have bowed down to the Queen so she couldn't martyr herself. I just trying to take care of my elderly father. I think I made things worse.
If you got this far, thanks for reading.
«
Last Edit: August 12, 2023, 10:07:42 PM by todayistheday
»
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* I use hBPD rather than uBPD. My Mom has not been evaluated for BPD, but I have a professional hypothesis from a therapist who I discussed the relationship with. She assigned me the eggshells book. At the next meeting when I told her how many things in the book were Mom, therapist was certain.
TelHill
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Re: Elderly Dad Medical Situation, hBPD queen/martyr Mom on warpath, I handled wrong
«
Reply #1 on:
August 12, 2023, 02:11:42 AM »
Hello and welcome,
I have an elderly dBPD mom and elderly enabler dad. She's housebound and he's in very good shape. They've both a few long hospital stays in the last few years. I believe her abuse of him has caused a condition he has to get worse. He doesn't stand up to her. He is also afraid to disobey my elder sibling, the golden child, with his health care. My brother makes poor medical decisions on his behalf and I have to clean up the mess or prevent them in the first place. I'm the scapegoat.
Don't beat yourself up about this. You did everything right under the circumstances. . You took care of dad with mom not on the same page. It shocking to me how outrageous and, I dare say, immoral our BPD mom's can be.
Can your sister take your dad on Tuesday? You can put yourself on pause at least for now. It will give you time to figure out what to do next.
Obviously it's not safe for your dad going forward to rely on mom for caregiving. What does your sister think about this? What about the doctor you and dad are close to? Can you talk in confidence about your mom's issues and your dilemma?
My dBPD mom does not stand in the way of medical care for my dad. (She doesn't think twice about causing so much stress to make him sick though.) So I wouldn't know how to circumvent the problem getting medical care when your dad needs it. If she does something awful you could call Adult Protective Services (APS) who will take action against her. I can see that might backfire if your mom makes up a story blaming you for what happened.
I know of someone with an elderly parent who went to an elder care attorney to sort out durable power of attorney and figure out the legal aspects of care. I bet they could walk you through legal scenarios of getting care for dad while minimizing the harm your mom could cause. You might want to discuss how to protect yourself legally should mom make up stories about you to retaliate for trying to care for dad. It may not happen but those elderly with BPD seem to be prone to it.
«
Last Edit: August 12, 2023, 02:44:57 AM by TelHill
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Notwendy
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Re: Elderly Dad Medical Situation, hBPD queen/martyr Mom on warpath, I handled wrong
«
Reply #2 on:
August 12, 2023, 05:59:56 AM »
Reading your post, I felt as if you were posting my own story a while back when my father got ill and eventually passed away.
My BPD mother behaved in a similar manner.
I am the scapegoat child, with a golden child sibling- college was also the way I was able to leave home.
I am glad that your father pulled through what was a painful situation. For my father, it was a longer and more debilitating condition, but the dynamics were similar to your family's.
It's not that you handled this "wrong". It's the dynamics in your family. I didn't understand them either at the time. If I had, I would not have taken their behavior as personally, or reacted to that in the same way. So while you are not doing anything "wrong" - you can see the dynamics in context. The model that helped me a lot was the Karpman triangle.
BPD mother is in Victim perspective. For the most part, your father has been Rescuer, catering to her wishes. You and your sibling have taken on the Rescuer or Persecutor roles at times. People can take on different roles. For BPD mother- Victim is the preferred role. To her, there is only one Victim. If someone else is feeling sad, or not feeling well- the expected response of a mother would be empathy, but she's already in Victim role. If the other person isn't attending to her, to her, they are in Persecutor role.
Her response then, is to "fight back"- and it feels justified to her in the moment. If someone feels like a victim being attacked in some way-even if it's emotionally, they are going to attack back in self defense. So while one might expect your mother to be empathetic to your father, her response is to be hurtful.
This isn't to excuse the behavior. It is not OK to be abusive in any way, but before I understood it, I was surprised and puzzled. I jumped right into the expected role of Rescuer to my father ( that's where you are- helping your father) and defended him from BPD mother. Well, the most stable and rewarding configuration for my parents is when they are both aligned against a common "persecutor" and not focused on each other. When BPD mother is angry at you, this takes the focus off your father. He can then be the rescuer.
There is also the disruption in the dynamics between your parents. Your father focuses on your mother's feelings and has likely been her emotional caretaker. During this time, he was not able to do that. For your mother, this support wasn't there. She was also likely stressed about the situation. For my mother, her BPD behaviors increased- they are her coping behaviors.
There were other "persecutors". The health care providers were either "wonderful" or "terrible". The home health caretakers were "all terrible". BPD involves projection.
There was a situation with my father's doctor too- I very much respect him. One of my concerns was that my parents were presenting my BPD mother as a caregiver for Dad. This was not the case. He needed more support at home. So I told the doctor honestly what was going on. He spoke to my father. My father got angry at me and told me to stop talking about it . So, I backed out of speaking to his health care providers. I also had to have boundaries with my parents as BPD mother's emotional and verbal abusive behaviors were increased. My mother then made the assumption that I was somehow not fulfilling my duties to them.
Your situation might be a no win situation. If you go to the doctor with your father, your mother will be angry. If you don't go to the doctor, your parents will be angry that you weren't there to be supportive.
I don't regret that I learned to have boundaries with my parents. However, if I had been more aware of these dynamics, I think I would have been less emotionally reactive to their responses. I was acting with the best intentions for my father and yet, my parents were reacting as if I was doing something wrong. One mistake I made was "losing it" with my BPD mother. I yelled at her. The situation would have been understandable to anyone who could see that we were all stressed. But BPD mother - who sees people as either on her side or not her side, rallied my father to her side.
I would suggest that you maintain your boundaries and try to not get into the dynamics between your parents. Yet, on the other hand, I would have done a bit more "bowing to the Queen" as you put it- in order to maintain a relationship with my father. But only as far as my boundaries would stay in place. One of the expectations was that I tolerate her verbal and emotional abuse. I would not do that. The other was that I felt I needed to have boundaries about my children. Don't compromise your own well being or that of your family- but - your parents have been interacting like they do for a long time- tread lightly with these.
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Methuen
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Re: Elderly Dad Medical Situation, hBPD queen/martyr Mom on warpath, I handled wrong
«
Reply #3 on:
August 12, 2023, 09:18:53 AM »
Sigh.
I went through a similar scenario almost 20 years ago when my dad was diagnosed with a terminal neurological disorder- Lewy Bodies which presents with some Parkinson’s like symptoms + dementia. My uBPD mom - a trained nurse - publicly presented herself as his caretaker. But outside of public she was his abuser. She couldn’t handle the stress and responsibility- but mostly she couldn’t handle that the attention was focused on someone else. I took dad to many appointments too - at one of them he shared with his family doc ( who was new and young) what was going on. She listened and said “it sounds like your wife has BpD. Why have you stayed with her?” At that point my dad jumped into rescuer role because he was of the ilk “till death do us part”, and that was that. Things got kind of crazy after that with dad’s dementia progression and mom’s acting out. She would call him a “retard”. One day I had a private conversation with his care manager, who then had a private conversation with him. I don’t actually know what happened in that conversation because by then I think dad was too far gone in his dementia to understand or have capacity to make a decision. The problem became mom’s unwillingness to have him go into care. She fantasized about being seen as his angelic caretaker because she was a nurse, when what was really happening was the opposite. My H and I and the case manager all had to figure out how to frame it so she could save her image. Eventually mom gave consent but it was way too late. Mom’s perspective was “how could he do this to ME?” Dad got into care and I knew that I had done all I could to protect him from her by talking to the case manager.
I lost it with mom too through all that.
My point is you haven’t done anything wrong.
Your mom is highly skilled at making you feel you have messed things up, without you even knowing that the feelings you have have been manipulated by her.
My question is: what do YOU want to do with your dad’s appointment? Do you want to be there with him, or do you want a break and let your sis do it?
Be guided by your own needs and values.
There is nothing you can do to lessen your mom’s feelings and drama. Only she is in control of that. When I was reading your story I could predict your mom’s response to not being the primary contact before I even read it.
Just trust us when we say you haven’t handled this “wrong “.
Be guided by your own values and needs. Not hers.
It’s wretched when they are on the warpath. But remember that this too shall pass.
«
Last Edit: August 12, 2023, 09:26:00 AM by Methuen
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Re: Elderly Dad Medical Situation, hBPD queen/martyr Mom on warpath, I handled wrong
«
Reply #4 on:
August 12, 2023, 09:50:10 PM »
I agree with TelHill that APS might be a necessary option. However, as others have said, your dad might default to "rescuing" his wife given a decades long dynamic. Your dad's caregivers obviously see the problem. You could ask them for advice. They are your father's caregivers, not your mothers and they obviously trust you.
To echo what others have said,
you're doing the right things
.
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todayistheday
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Re: Elderly Dad Medical Situation, hBPD queen/martyr Mom on warpath, I handled wrong
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Reply #5 on:
August 12, 2023, 09:56:22 PM »
Thank all of you for the most helpful responses.
I realize that what has happened is that for the day, she "won". She was no longer center of attention, Dad was. And like a naughty child, her behavior has deflected attention back to her.
Update:
I am home tonight and exhausted. I am happy to be home and away from it. I know part of the exhaustion is mental as much as physical. Last night, I had some severe physical symptoms of my own that could have been side effects from some of my medication or could have been due to stress. Not good. I need to protect myself. I had originally planned to leave in the morning and be home by lunch. Then made plans to visit some friends and not get home until mid-afternoon. Of course, drama llama kept me from either. Did not get away from their house until mid afternoon and got home.
Interestingly, Mom went to nursing school after high school and was an RN. She worked for about a year, and still claims the expertise of being a nurse. Dad said that she was a good nurse, but I cannot see how. Yes, like most Borderlines, she is nice to people outside the family. But she gets frustrated so quickly. And even when trying to help my Dad with anything medical, she has always gotten frustrated. She does not have steady hands (not age related) -- even something simple that most mothers would do without nursing experience like removing a splinter or change a dressing.
She keeps reminding us that as a nurse, she knows everything medical and her training is still valid. Yet going through his discharge orders and medication schedule, she could not understand it. I had to help her interpret the med schedule and finally got her to understand it. As she wrote notes all over it in "medical terms", she knew those. For example, his schedule said 3X a day, she wrote next to it "tid". I made the mistake of casually saying that I remembered that from health class in school. That made her go ballistic. She went to school in this for 4 years. By saying I understood I was trying to undermine her.
For future: I will talk to my sister Monday, but will probably go there and if she still says so, take Dad to the appointment. We need to take care of Dad and let Mom think she in charge and center of attention.
Oh, and the specialist called me tonight to see how he is doing. There were a few questions that we had, so I got the info from him. Since her original rant is about him talking to me and not her, I'm not poking the bear and telling Mom and Dad that I talked to him. Dad would let it slip that he called if I tell him. There is nothing that was said that is needed for them to know. I may or may not tell my sister. Although that's another toxic part of the family dynamic. There has always been "Don't tell this person that, ..." which is hard to keep up with and stressful because we don't know the whole story about anything.
On a positive note, the best thing about the whole situation is that our friend/the specialist is taking such good care of Dad. He saved my Dad from being in a much worse situation. And it's not because Dad is a friend of his. He is the kind of doctor who is very conscientious and goes the extra mile for all of his patience. The friendship makes him go the extra 1.1 miles only.
My work has an "eldercare advisor" who is a LCSW. She does a lot of things such as help find nursing homes, bring in agents to teach classes about SS, etc. She has been helpful to me in the past. Being a LCSW, she knows about Borderline. I'm going to try to see if she can find some time for me on Monday. I may eventually to go back to my counselor who I've not seen in several years, the one who hypothesized that Mom has BPD.
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* I use hBPD rather than uBPD. My Mom has not been evaluated for BPD, but I have a professional hypothesis from a therapist who I discussed the relationship with. She assigned me the eggshells book. At the next meeting when I told her how many things in the book were Mom, therapist was certain.
Notwendy
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Re: Elderly Dad Medical Situation, hBPD queen/martyr Mom on warpath, I handled wrong
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Reply #6 on:
August 13, 2023, 08:51:38 AM »
It's interesting that the dynamics are so similar.
BPD mother also "won" in this situation. For the center of attention, she was either dissociated and raging but also wanted to have the recognition for being a wonderful caretaker. It was awkward to hear her family members declare "she took such wonderful care of your father" when what I saw was different.
My mother isn't a nurse. She married in the era where most women didn't have careers outside the home. But she wants people to see her as a good wife and mother, and we were expected to not say anything to others that might have them question that. My father maintained that too.
My mother also disliked the attention to Dad and that included my attention. I had been visiting and had taken Dad to his doctor appointments. I was still trying to be a good daughter and have my parents' approval and I cared about my father and wanted to help him in his elder years. I had not visited with my mother alone for a long time. My parents visited together and she held it together during short visits.
The visit that had me look into BPD, and boundaries more was when Dad had surgery. I went to help out but there wasn't much needed to do for Dad. He was in the hospital. I was alone with BPD mother. The best way I know to describe it was that it felt like I was a psychiatric nurse alone with an insane person- except that I am not a psychiatric nurse and had no idea what to do. BPD mother was out of control, emotionally and verbally abusive and I was shocked at what happened.
Like you, I returned home emotionally worn out but also shook up. I also booked an appointment with a counselor. I had done some counseling before over family issues but wanted this now. What got my attention also was also feeling the stress physically- so set up ways for self care- booked a massage, took long walks. I knew then that I had to avoid being alone in the house with BPD mother.
The "don't tell the other person" is also a dynamic with BPD mother. It's triangulation. She tries to take another family member to her side and share something they aren't supposed to tell the other. She's even done this with my husband- tried to take him aside to tell him something about me- and that could be a lie- and get him to keep that little secret. He doesn't go along with it.
I think because she does this, she assumes we do this too-and one thing that she gets upset about is if someone knows something she doesn't, She wants to be "in the know" and when she finds out she isn't- she gets furious. Some things I don't want to share with her. Others, seem so minor to me - I forget. One example is that I gave a small gift to someone who helped with the move to assisted living. There was so much going on- arrangements with the realtor, someone to move the furniture, I simply forgot about it. That person thanked my mother as well. Instead of thinking "well that was nice" - BPD mother called me up, dissociated and in an uproar over how I "embarrassed her" by not telling her about the gift.
I think it's a great idea to speak to that person at work about elder care resources and also a counselor. In addition- do some special things for you. Whatever it is that you enjoy- walk outside, fancy bath salts, a favorite meal, get your nails done. Something that helps you feel cared for.
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TelHill
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Re: Elderly Dad Medical Situation, hBPD queen/martyr Mom on warpath, I handled wrong
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Reply #7 on:
August 13, 2023, 10:27:36 AM »
Make certain to get all the support you need now to come up with a good strategy if you plan to become involved with your parents health care. Set boundaries and be flexible. Don't go down the road of self-blame. My dBPD mom is so good at noting cracks in my armor and pounces.
In my experience, once the elderly start to have one hospitalization they have more down the line. My dad has had 3 major hospital visits in the last 8 years and my dBPD mom has had 4. English is not my parents first language and my golden child older brother is not good at following through with care instructions or recognizing medical emergencies. Whether this is passive aggressive behavior or lack of skill, am not sure.
I've carved out my role as being the keeper of their online medical records, translator, appointment maker, px refill requester, Googler for medical issues. I seem to be good at this. My parents would have died already if dependent on gc brother for this. It's a moral obligation I gladly take on.
I will not move in and caregive. I did it part-time for 4 years. It's the difference between a severe depression/unable to leave the house and having a normal life.
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Notwendy
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Re: Elderly Dad Medical Situation, hBPD queen/martyr Mom on warpath, I handled wrong
«
Reply #8 on:
August 13, 2023, 03:56:26 PM »
Quote from: TelHill on August 13, 2023, 10:27:36 AM
Make certain to get all the support you need now to come up with a good strategy if you plan to become involved with your parents health care. Set boundaries and be flexible. Don't go down the road of self-blame. My dBPD mom is so good at noting cracks in my armor and pounces.
In my experience, once the elderly start to have one hospitalization they have more down the line. My dad has had 3 major hospital visits in the last 8 years and my dBPD mom has had 4. English is not my parents first language and my golden child older brother is not good at following through with care instructions or recognizing medical emergencies. Whether this is passive aggressive behavior or lack of skill, am not sure.
I've carved out my role as being the keeper of their online medical records, translator, appointment maker, px refill requester, Googler for medical issues. I seem to be good at this. My parents would have died already if dependent on gc brother for this. It's a moral obligation I gladly take on.
I will not move in and caregive. I did it part-time for 4 years. It's the difference between a severe depression/unable to leave the house and having a normal life.
This is very good advice. Even my H says that if I were to become very involved in taking care of BPD mother, I would be an emotional mess. If I know there's a visit planned, I feel anxious.
With golden child sibling, I think we contribute what we are able to-with a different skill set and relationship with her. I tend to be more task oriented with her. GC has a different relationship with her- they are connected and so there's an emotional component to the visits. Although there's still abuse, they share some interests in common. So GC can provide emotional support better and I can do things for her.
So for Tel-Hill- you may be more adept at medical record keeping. I have been more involved with that aspect as well. I don't know if it's skill, or passive aggression but it might be that this is more of an emotional topic for your GC sibling. My mother sees me as being useful to her. Although I also want her to feel well, my doing things for her is the basis of the relationship. For GC, it's a more emotional connection.
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todayistheday
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Re: Elderly Dad Medical Situation, hBPD queen/martyr Mom on warpath, I handled wrong
«
Reply #9 on:
August 15, 2023, 01:15:13 PM »
Thanks again for all of the helpful suggestions.
I do realize that in a "normal" family that what I did was not handling the situation wrongly, but was the entirely logical thing to do.
It is so tiresome that in our families, that we have to take extra steps to handle a situation. In hindsight, some of the decisions I made, while right for my Dad, were wrong -- or at least incomplete -- as part of the bigger picture.
When trying to figure my next move, my husband did ask the question "what is best for your Dad?" That still has multiple answers. The thing that would generally be best for my Dad's current physical situation could be one that causes him grief in the future. Because mom ultimately takes everything out on him.
I should change my name from "today is the day" to "just exhausted by it all". However, this too shall pass. But perhaps like a kidney stone in the process.
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* I use hBPD rather than uBPD. My Mom has not been evaluated for BPD, but I have a professional hypothesis from a therapist who I discussed the relationship with. She assigned me the eggshells book. At the next meeting when I told her how many things in the book were Mom, therapist was certain.
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Re: Elderly Dad Medical Situation, hBPD queen/martyr Mom on warpath, I handled wrong
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Reply #10 on:
August 16, 2023, 12:52:53 AM »
Quote from: todayistheday on August 15, 2023, 01:15:13 PM
I should change my name from "today is the day" to "just exhausted by it all". However, this too shall pass. But perhaps like a kidney stone in the process.
This made me laugh. Sums it up well.
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zachira
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
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Posts: 3456
Re: Elderly Dad Medical Situation, hBPD queen/martyr Mom on warpath, I handled wrong
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Reply #11 on:
August 16, 2023, 07:41:47 AM »
Your situation with your father describes my FOO and other families within my large extended family. It is so heartbreaking knowing that whatever you decide to do, it will not change the dynamics between your parents and other family members. I would say you have to do what is right for you in the moment and pick your battles. Self-care and boundaries are essential for your survival and wellbeing. What part do you want to play in taking care of your father if any? The answer to this question will likely change with time and what is going on. Many members here are a work in progress as we adjust our boundaries with our challenging family members as we change and situations change. It can be overwhelming to think you have to decide everything right now. Remember small changes can become big changes.
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