Well looks like divorce is finally happening

[Notwendy]

With my elderly BPD mother, nobody has succeeded in reasoning with her about money. My father planned well for their retirement and she has spent almost all of her savings and has no interest in slowing her spending down. We are concerned she is putting herself in financial jeapoardy.

She's still considered to be "legally competent" and so we can't intervene. However, I also consulted a $500 an hour attorney that I paid for to help me with understanding when and if I could intervene, and to discuss elder law with regards to her situation. I think it was money well spent.

Divorce is costly but being married to someone who doesn't comprehend why it's important to budget is expensive too.

[mikejones75093]

MikeJones,

Thank you for sharing an update.  I am following your progress (just in case I have to do the same at some point in time).


We filed an answer and a counter suit.  Asking joint custody but me primary conservator.   She's going to be real upset when she sees this.  Also asking to protect my separate property,  also going to make her very upset.

I think that is a wise move; however, you mentioned a video clip below, you may want to ask for more.


My buddy asked me last week if I wanted her back.  Issue is, even if I do, she's making terrible real life decisions with spending that are too dangerous.  Unless she.completely changes this has to happen.   Even then sometimes I hope she comes around.

It looks like you are realistic about your expectations being mindful that past behaviors will indicate future ones.  It is obvious that you still love and care for her deeply; however, you cannot tolerate her behaviors if they do not change.


She has a realtor showing her all these high end houses. She's completely oblivious she won't qualify or even be able to afford.  We have gone over this a lot.  Is she delusional?  She thinks her payment will only be $2500 a month, more like $5k in reality.

Do you really need an answer to your rhetorical question?


I am praying this divorce and custody battle go my way.  She has accused me of all kinds of things that are not true so she can't prove.  A few months ago I installed a camera in my living room and have clips of her screaming and throwing things at the kids, she doesn't know I have them.

This one is a red flag for me and prompted me to respond to your thread.  Once you found out the contents of these video clips, did you share it with CPS (child protective services)?  Does your attorney know about these video clips?  If not, you need to let him know as soon as you can.  There are wire-tapping laws (most likely a slap on the wrist - not unlike a speeding ticket) and vary from location to location.  Make sure you have backup copies of these videos, as they will definitely work to your advantage in your divorce.  However, if you failed to report it to CPS in a timely manner, it could raise questions as to why you didn't - your attorney can guide you on this.


At the end of the day I think this is 1 big scam to manipulate me and she doesn't think I will go through with it.  Don't know how she can't act happy like everything is amazing all the time.

You asked a rhetorical question -- she is irrationally delusional.

Take care with self-care.

It all around is just a terrible situation.   Yes my attorney knows about the video clips.  It was one of those indoor nest cams in plain sight.  She knew it was there.  Over time think she just forgot about it. Told her it was to watch a babysitter.  Hopefully that isn't illegal.

My attorney said we would posture.  It's very hard to get sole custody so I don't think a judge would do that. 

Yes I know she's delusional but I never expected anything like this.  Was hoping like the past she would just get over it and move on to something else, but she's been in a downward spiral for 5 months now.  She's actually forcing my hand.  She filed and won't end it.  I'm still going to counseling and since I'm normal I'm grieving.   

All this divorce and moving shopping for houses is keeping her busy and filling her empty void.  When it all collapses I have no clue what she will do.  When all these things she's accused me of are false Hopefully her attorney tells her.  At that point she might start disliking her attorney.  If you're not with her you're against her.  Maybe her true colors will come out and it will all work out for me and the kids.

[SaltyDawg]

My attorney said we would posture.  It's very hard to get sole custody so I don't think a judge would do that. 

I agree, you may still want to consider asking (posturing) for more, and then being the reasonable parent that you are 'compromise' to 50/50.  If you start at 50/50, how do you counter with a compromise that is less if she asks for more?

[ForeverDad]

SaltyDawg wrote about the concerns of uninformed recording.  That is something to keep in mind but in all my years here I don't recall anyone here suffering legal consequences.  However, I will make two points on the subject.

(1)  There were a couple cases when I recall the conflict was so high that the court ordered the parents not to record the children.  It's a reminder that kids shouldn't be put in the middle of adult conflicts nor unwisely pick sides.

What constitutes child abuse can vary between states.  In my state a child witnessing a parent being abusive is concerning but it becomes actionable when the child is the target.  In the final months before separation I had called CPS, saying my son witnessed my then-spouse ranting and raging at me but was told, "Call back if your child becomes a target."

(2)  Courts always state they have limited time, they have a clogged schedule.  In my case, I was in and out of court for some 8 years before, during and after my divorce case.  It was only in the very last hearing, where I had already gained full custody but was seeking majority time, that my lawyer presented 10 brief audio clips of my ex playing games with exchanges while disparaging me in the presence of our son.  The magistrate mentioned and condemned the "disparagement" a half dozen times in the written decision.

What court may decline to view or hear may dishearten you but often those are better used with the professionals who have influence or make recommendations for the court.  Also, your lawyer may feel such documentation ought to be hinted or some of it shared with the opposing counsel and lessen their aggressive allegations or demands.  (Many of us have had conflict post-relationship where the ex tries to make us look worse than the ex.)

My buddy asked me last week if I wanted her back.  Issue is, even if I do, she's making terrible real life decisions with spending that are too dangerous.  Unless she.completely changes this has to happen.   Even then sometimes I hope she comes around.

This reminds me of the time in court when we first separated.  I was on the stand being questioned by her attorney.  This excerpt was part of a post I made warning about some of the traps and pitfalls when I first encountered the legal cage matches.

My lawyer always reminded me that his first duty to his clients was to sit on them, figuratively, so they couldn't say something that could make his case more difficult.  So keep answers as brief as possible.  Don't volunteer information.  If your lawyer wants more detail, your lawyer will ask specific follow-up questions.

Beware of trick questions that make you look bad no matter how you answer... "Have you stopped beating your wife?" is a famous example.  Yes you did and stopped or No you didn't stop?

I recall I was on the stand and her lawyer asked, "Are you taller and heavier than your spouse?"  Of course I said Yes.  I knew his insinuation, that my spouse had basis to 'fear' me.  As I look back I should have added, "And we're both larger than our preschooler."

He continued, "Do you want her back?"  It was a trap, if I said Yes then he could allege I was a controller.  Fortunately I replied, "No, not the way she is."  He had to move on.

You can always ask the questioner to rephrase the question.  And it's okay to ask for a restroom break while you ponder how to answer a thorny question.  Too, pause before answering so you can look at your lawyer's expressions, perhaps give lawyer time to object or step in as needed.

[mikejones75093]

SaltyDawg wrote about the concerns of uninformed recording.  That is something to keep in mind but in all my years here I don't recall anyone here suffering legal consequences.  However, I will make two points on the subject.

(1)  There were a couple cases when I recall the conflict was so high that the court ordered the parents not to record the children.  It's a reminder that kids shouldn't be put in the middle of adult conflicts nor unwisely pick sides.

What constitutes child abuse can vary between states.  In my state a child witnessing a parent being abusive is concerning but it becomes actionable when the child is the target.  In the final months before separation I had called CPS, saying my son witnessed my then-spouse ranting and raging at me but was told, "Call back if your child becomes a target."

(2)  Courts always state they have limited time, they have a clogged schedule.  In my case, I was in and out of court for some 8 years before, during and after my divorce case.  It was only in the very last hearing, where I had already gained full custody but was seeking majority time, that my lawyer presented 10 brief audio clips of my ex playing games with exchanges while disparaging me in the presence of our son.  The magistrate mentioned and condemned the "disparagement" a half dozen times in the written decision.

What court may decline to view or hear may dishearten you but often those are better used with the professionals who have influence or make recommendations for the court.  Also, your lawyer may feel such documentation ought to be hinted or some of it shared with the opposing counsel and lessen their aggressive allegations or demands.  (Many of us have had conflict post-relationship where the ex tries to make us look worse than the ex.)

This reminds me of the time in court when we first separated.  I was on the stand being questioned by her attorney.  This excerpt was part of a post I made warning about some of the traps and pitfalls when I first encountered the legal cage matches.

Sounds horrible but I have to gear up.  She hired a fancy high end attorney.  If her attorney starts telling her that these accusations against me won't work, what are the chances she splits on the attorney?  I'm hoping if something like that happen she tanks emotionally and gives me everything I ask for.  She has 2 responses to me, just take everything and let me go,  and she's coming to take me down. 

[Notwendy]

It's hard to know. I just think of it as a ferris wheel. What goes up ( painted white) goes down ( painted black) and then up again.

[SaltyDawg]

Sounds horrible but I have to gear up.  She hired a fancy high end attorney.  If her attorney starts telling her that these accusations against me won't work, what are the chances she splits on the attorney?  I'm hoping if something like that happen she tanks emotionally and gives me everything I ask for.  She has 2 responses to me, just take everything and let me go,  and she's coming to take me down. 

Mike,

   Your guess is better than ours, as you know her better than we do.  What do you think she would do? 

   Hope/Pray for the Best, but plan for the worse.  Have all basis covered, so you know when and more importantly how to respond when she does something.  Come up with a list of questions here, and then approach your attorney for the best strategy.  Don't use your attorney for emotional $upport.

   Take care, with self-care.

SD

[mikejones75093]

She asked me for my email username and password.   Said if I didn't give it she would just have the court get it.  Accusing me of being deceitful for not letting her have it, said she tried to be amicable but it's not working,.and it's sad we can't have honest transparency.

Seems like she's stepping over a huge boundary.  Am I right?

[ForeverDad]

This is entitlement, demands, ultimatums, take your pick.

(Well I wonder whether she is offering you all her email accounts and passwords?  I know your answer already!)

Neither her lawyer nor family court will ask you for personal stuff like passwords.  It can ask for a lot but not that.  This is a civil matter anyway.

Just so you know, your journals and logs are private and confidential too.

Glad you're asking for clarity before caving to ultimatums.

Let me explain that if you're trying to repair a marriage, then yes both spouses would have to share appropriate information to restore trust to the relationship.  But if the marriage is ending, then ponder every request or demand as to whether it is asking for TMI (too much information).

The one thing you do share is parenting matters such as exchanges, kids' health, kids' appointments, etc.

Also, there will be times when some financial details will need to be disclosed, but that's for the lawyers to negotiate and guide.  One example is for the initial temp order where the court needs financial data from both spouses to plug into their formulas for child support and maybe spousal support.

[Notwendy]

No way! Sharing your email user name and password with someone who is not trustworthy- she could do anything with that. It's your own identity.

Her lawyer can attain any information pertinant to the divorce. Your personal correspondance is none of her business.

Also, what stops her from then changing your password and locking you out of your own email? Or sending correspondance as "you" to your contacts. You have already seen that she doesn't have boundaries. She could do anything with your email account.

[mikejones75093]

This is entitlement, demands, ultimatums, take your pick.

(Well I wonder whether she is offering you all her email accounts and passwords?  I know your answer already!)

Neither her lawyer nor family court will ask you for personal stuff like passwords.  It can ask for a lot but not that.  This is a civil matter anyway.

Just so you know, your journals and logs are private and confidential too.

Glad you're asking for clarity before caving to ultimatums.

Let me explain that if you're trying to repair a marriage, then yes both spouses would have to share appropriate information to restore trust to the relationship.  But if the marriage is ending, then ponder every request or demand as to whether it is asking for TMI (too much information).

The one thing you do share is parenting matters such as exchanges, kids' health, kids' appointments, etc.

Also, there will be times when some financial details will need to be disclosed, but that's for the lawyers to negotiate and guide.  One example is for the initial temp order where the court needs financial data from both spouses to plug into their formulas for child support and maybe spousal support.

So she's saying just because evidence is hidden or destroyed doesn't mean it didn't happen.  She wishes I would be honest with myself.  She's good at making me feel like a total piece of garbage.
She's making this out like I'm tony soprano or something.  Just a regular middle class family, don't know what she thinks shes going to find.  After all the accusations of hidden accounts and abuse are shown to be not true i hope somebody with a brain sees shes not working with a full deck.  In her head she thinks these are her kids not ours and shes going to take them away and put me on visitation.

[GaGrl]

All of her communications to you need to be put through a "reality filter" before you even allow what she says to affect you or before you respond.

You can create your own "reality filter" -- just a few questions. Is what she is asking/saying...

-- Legal?
-- Intrusive of my privacy/overstepping a boundary?
-- Something that should be handles by our lawyers?

What else might be a good filter? Doing this can keep you from immediately falling into her words.

[mikejones75093]

All of her communications to you need to be put through a "reality filter" before you even allow what she says to affect you or before you respond.

You can create your own "reality filter" -- just a few questions. Is what she is asking/saying...

-- Legal?
-- Intrusive of my privacy/overstepping a boundary?
-- Something that should be handles by our lawyers?

What else might be a good filter? Doing this can keep you from immediately falling into her words.

She's been making me feel like a piece of crap for a long time.  I'm pretty good at sorting her crap.  I know she was over stepping and saved it all.   It's just a gut punch.  They say divorce is one of the most stressful things in life but divorcing a bpd that is blaming and lying is just brutal. 

[ForeverDad]

After all the accusations of hidden accounts and abuse are shown to be not true i hope somebody with a brain sees shes not working with a full deck.  In her head she thinks these are her kids not ours and shes going to take them away and put me on visitation.

Court and most of the professionals involved in the divorce process will notice... but likely say little or nothing.  They see all sorts of bickering parents day in day out.  But they go home to their own families at the end of the day.  For them it's work, for you it's your life.  Don't feel bad that they have a different perspective.

Also, it will take time for them to discern you're the parent proposing solutions while your stbEx is the one creating conflict and mayhem.

My ex was defaulted to very preferential temp orders back in 2005-06.  They still followed the Tender Years Doctrine that mothers are always the best parents.  I got alternate weekends, an evening in between and child support.  As though the dilemma I faced was "why shouldn't mother get every advantage?"  Um, for the first few months of separation she was facing a Threat of DV charge.  That's when I found out that poor adult behavior has little impact on parenting aspects.

Before there was an order, she was able to do pretty much whatever she wanted and without consequences.  It's different now, there is a court order and both of you are expected to obey it.  Yes, at first she will get only admonitions but eventually she will face consequences for obstruction.  If she's not wealthy, then court is not likely to fine her.  As a mother to a young child she's very unlikely to face jail time either.  Fines or jail may be legal threats but probably unlikely.  Your goal should be to demonstrate to the court that you're a normal, stable, good parent wanting as much parenting time and authority as possible.  Hopefully over time you'll get (baby step) improvements to your order.  It's a marathon, not a sprint.

In my case in 30 minutes my ex got a favorable temporary order with temp custody and majority time.  It took me several years to get that fixed and now I have custody and majority time.  Still, her current minority time is still much better than what I had those first two years.  Sadly, court is not about fairness and justice, it's about law, case law, policy, procedures and history.

Expect the lawyers to tell you that you can't get custody.  They may think you're exaggerating, not knowing you or her.  They'll warn you courts are reluctant to make major changes to parenting without good reason to do so.  They may tell you that the court will flat out refuse to make major changes.  Doesn't matter, your good behaviors and her obstructive behaviors ought to make at least some difference.  After all, some improvement is better than none, right?  Maybe not enough to get custody now, but there's nothing wrong to state you know you would do better if you had custody and substantial parenting time.  I recall how my Custody Evaluator summed up our evaluation... "Mother cannot share 'her' child but father can.  If Shared Parenting is attempted and fails, then father should have custody."  My CE saw ability (or willingness) to share as very important.  Hopefully your professionals will too.

The final decree set us as equals with shared custody and equal time.  A couple years and they saw basis to assign me custody.  A few more years and I was granted majority time during the school year due to her continued conflict and disparagement.

[mikejones75093]

Court and most of the professionals involved in the divorce process will notice... but likely say little or nothing.  They see all sorts of bickering parents day in day out.  But they go home to their own families at the end of the day.  For them it's work, for you it's your life.  Don't feel bad that they have a different perspective.

Also, it will take time for them to discern you're the parent proposing solutions while your stbEx is the one creating conflict and mayhem.

My ex was defaulted to very preferential temp orders back in 2005-06.  They still followed the Tender Years Doctrine that mothers are always the best parents.  I got alternate weekends, an evening in between and child support.  As though the dilemma I faced was "why shouldn't mother get every advantage?"  Um, for the first few months of separation she was facing a Threat of DV charge.  That's when I found out that poor adult behavior has little impact on parenting aspects.

The final decree set us as equals with shared custody and equal time.  A couple years and they saw basis to assign me custody.  A few more years and I was granted majority time during the school year due to her continued conflict and disparagement.

I just hope.somebody sees through her crap.  She has nothing on me, just a bunch of false allegations.  I actually have her texts and video clips saved.   

She's good looking and speaks well, so she's going to give some horror story about me like she has been over the years.  Half the time I'm scared to death she will win this thing being a good looking good speaking mom, and the other half I'm thinking how can they not see my side.

My attorney said judges normally can see through people that portray themselves as perfect and blame everything on the other parent.

She's going to look at places to rent tomorrow and is impulsive enough to sign a lease.  She thinks these are her kids and not ours so she is going to try and take them with her, and in her mind has every right to do so.

Already contacted my attorney.   About to get interesting.

[ForeverDad]

That she is actually searching for a rental resolves one concern I had, that she might reverse herself and decide to camp out in the inexpensive home that she's decided is no longer good for her... and boot you out. 

Typically we see the parent with issues refusing to give up the home.  (Actually "home" is wherever you live, not a specific structure.)

Let her go, though if she decides to pay a huge rent would she expect you to pay some of the cost?  Beware of co-signing for a long lease.

Once she has moved out, it would be good to position yourself as (orseek to be) the one with official "occupancy" in court documents.  That may reduce the risk of her moving back.

[mikejones75093]

That she is actually searching for a rental resolves one concern I had, that she might reverse herself and decide to camp out in the inexpensive home that she's decided is no longer good for her... and boot you out. 

Typically we see the parent with issues refusing to give up the home.  (Actually "home" is wherever you live, not a specific structure.)

Let her go, though if she decides to pay a huge rent would she expect you to pay some of the cost?  Beware of co-signing for a long lease.

Once she has moved out, it would be good to position yourself as (orseek to be) the one with official "occupancy" in court documents.  That may reduce the risk of her moving back.

She got my counter suit today.  According to her we aren't friends anymore.   Don't know what she thought the past few months were.

If she signs a lease and moves that's OK.  Issue is she's trying to take the kids and it's 40 miles away from our current home.  She can go, but she needs to leave the kids.

Once she saw the counter suit she said it didn't work for her.  Told me she said she would cancel if I agreed to move and instead I hired a lawyer, so it shows where my priorities are.  That's manipulation right?  Sell or I divorce you?

She finally realized she's not going to get this giant settlement and is asking why I would do that to her.  She was a great wife and I was terrible. 

My attorney is working on getting it to the judge so they rule she can't move the kids.

[mikejones75093]

Now she went on social media and wrote a 2 page post about how I manipulate and abuse her.  Is this crap normal?   My family and friends are all reaching out.

Good thing her post reads like a narcissist rant.  I did this and I sacrificed that and supported me through all kinds of bad decisions.   Does she really believe this or just looking for attention?

I can't tell if it's a good thing because she's definitely lost it.

[Notwendy]

Get a screenshot of it before she takes it down. I don’t know if it’s evidence of crazy but it shows indiscretion - save it for your own records .

[mikejones75093]

Get a screenshot of it before she takes it down. I don’t know if it’s evidence of crazy but it shows indiscretion - save it for your own records .

I did.  I'm not on her page but other people sent me screen shots of it.  This is just nuts.  Don't know whats next.

[ForeverDad]

This is just nuts.  Don't know whats next.

Quite true.  Almost anything can be next.  Remember, her goal is probably to make you appear worse than her.

And don't be surprised if family court just says "ho hum" as though it's just another day at the bench.  For them it is but for you it feels like it's your life swinging in the wind.  Maybe some claims will require investigation but even that will most likely be considered "unsubstantiated".  Sadly, it may take a while for family court to realize there's a difference between you two, she's causing conflict while you're seeking workable solutions.

[EyesUp]

When I was going through my separation and divorce, it took some time to realize that not every comment from my then stbx required a response.

On one hand, it often feels like you're in the thick of a legal process and it's best to respond.

On the other hand, as FD suggested, many claims are considered unsubstantiated or "utterances".

When dealing with this, you may find that a common suggestion for detaching from a disordered significant other also applies well for divorce (and post-divorce) communications:  Default to zero response as your new baseline. 

This is both legal advice and emotional advice.  In instances where you receive legal communication from your stbx's atty, review options and the response with your atty - just as you've been doing.  But don't feel the need to respond to every (false) accusation or demand or mini-tantrum.  Expect these episodes to occur like changes in the weather, and you'll be less likely to be caught off guard, to respond to emotion with emotion, or to get sucked in to drama for drama's sake.

It's like emotional grey-rock plus legal grey-rock.  Another sky-high expectation or entitlement from your stbx?  Ho hum, you knew it was coming...

However there are some things you can do to manage this process, for your own sanity as well as for the benefit of your atty, if needed.

Document everything. Concisely.  Keep a password protected log of events or key moments. e.g., "7pm Nov 20.  stbx demanded that I leave the house. I responded that I did not intend to leave. stbx screamed in front of the kids, slammed the door, then left the house."   

This journal can help you focus on what's happening or happened after what seems like a barrage of unreasonable moments.  And it may potentially be submitted as evidence later "your honor, there are 65 instances of abusive behavior / unreasonable demands / outbursts in front of children in my client's journal over the past 12 months - here is a concise list of 13 such incidents in the past 30 days..."   As such, write this concise journal with a judge in mind.  A judge does not want to (and likely will not) read a long narrative - they want to scan a page and quickly conclude a, b, c...   and even if you never present your journal to a judge, concise entries will help you to help yourself when/if you ever need to go back and make sense of what's happened/happening.

Finally, there is another mode of documentation to consider, for times when you truly must communicate with your stbx, but want to stop short of paying your atty to send a letter.  In this case, consider an "R3" (Registered, Return, Receipt) letter.  The R3 is may be accepted as evidence, whereas email or text messages are usually treated as utterances unless validated by potentially expensive processes because it's too easy to "fake" an email or text and harder to prove it was actually sent from person a to person b at such and such a date. But the R3 is accepted to be from you to your stbx on a certain date by default because USPS processes make it almost impossible to fake a delivery, and you will have the return receipt indicating date and time. 

The purpose of the R3 is actually not for your stbx, it's explicitly to document for the judge that you are actively seeking and have proposed reasonable solutions. As such, it's also a super concise document, just a few lines, really.  e.g.,

"Dear stbx,

On Nov 20, you threatened a, b, c.  Please understand that I take these threats seriously.  To move forward, I propose that address our mutual concerns with a mediator.  If you agree, please confirm to me by Nov 27 so that we may begin a mediation process.

Sincerely, Mike"

I think we both know that your stbx will reject this plan, however the R3 letter will legally document both her behavior (in this case, some threat) and your reasonable response/solution.

Do not send R3s every time something objectionable happens, but do consider using this process to document the most egregious issues that, in "normal" or at least healthier dynamics could be resolved through a reasonable, cooperative process.

Sometimes simply thinking through this process and attempting to draft the letter can help align your thinking and keep you on track.  I've drafted a few R3s I didn't end up sending, but converted into journal entries instead. 

In time, you'll recognize when your stbx is seeking attention, stoking conflict, attempting to control you by keeping you engaged (by any means necessary), etc., and various outbursts will have far less impact. You'll be able to see through a given interaction to what's on the other side:  often, nothing.

In my case, I eventually reached a point where I advised my atty not to engage on certain points.  For example, my atty asked if I wanted her help to draw up an agreement re division of household items to be incorporated with stipulations pertaining to separation.  I said no thanks - it was a sideshow ripe for multiple volleys between the attys ($$$$) over many relatively low-value items. My atty agreed, and I built and proposed a list to my then-stbx directly, which she predictably rejected.  I did work with my atty on the major division of assets:  home, retirement accounts...  but kept the small stuff (and a number of petty arguments I could see coming a mile away) out of it.

[mikejones75093]

When I was going through my separation and divorce, it took some time to realize that not every comment from my then stbx required a response.

On one hand, it often feels like you're in the thick of a legal process and it's best to respond.

On the other hand, as FD suggested, many claims are considered unsubstantiated or "utterances".

When dealing with this, you may find that a common suggestion for detaching from a disordered significant other also applies well for divorce (and post-divorce) communications:  Default to zero response as your new baseline. 

This is both legal advice and emotional advice.  In instances where you receive legal communication from your stbx's atty, review options and the response with your atty - just as you've been doing.  But don't feel the need to respond to every (false) accusation or demand or mini-tantrum.  Expect these episodes to occur like changes in the weather, and you'll be less likely to be caught off guard, to respond to emotion with emotion, or to get sucked in to drama for drama's sake.

It's like emotional grey-rock plus legal grey-rock.  Another sky-high expectation or entitlement from your stbx?  Ho hum, you knew it was coming...

However there are some things you can do to manage this process, for your own sanity as well as for the benefit of your atty, if needed.

Document everything. Concisely.  Keep a password protected log of events or key moments. e.g., "7pm Nov 20.  stbx demanded that I leave the house. I responded that I did not intend to leave. stbx screamed in front of the kids, slammed the door, then left the house."   

This journal can help you focus on what's happening or happened after what seems like a barrage of unreasonable moments.  And it may potentially be submitted as evidence later "your honor, there are 65 instances of abusive behavior / unreasonable demands / outbursts in front of children in my client's journal over the past 12 months - here is a concise list of 13 such incidents in the past 30 days..."   As such, write this concise journal with a judge in mind.  A judge does not want to (and likely will not) read a long narrative - they want to scan a page and quickly conclude a, b, c...   and even if you never present your journal to a judge, concise entries will help you to help yourself when/if you ever need to go back and make sense of what's happened/happening.

Finally, there is another mode of documentation to consider, for times when you truly must communicate with your stbx, but want to stop short of paying your atty to send a letter.  In this case, consider an "R3" (Registered, Return, Receipt) letter.  The R3 is may be accepted as evidence, whereas email or text messages are usually treated as utterances unless validated by potentially expensive processes because it's too easy to "fake" an email or text and harder to prove it was actually sent from person a to person b at such and such a date. But the R3 is accepted to be from you to your stbx on a certain date by default because USPS processes make it almost impossible to fake a delivery, and you will have the return receipt indicating date and time. 

The purpose of the R3 is actually not for your stbx, it's explicitly to document for the judge that you are actively seeking and have proposed reasonable solutions. As such, it's also a super concise document, just a few lines, really.  e.g.,

"Dear stbx,

On Nov 20, you threatened a, b, c.  Please understand that I take these threats seriously.  To move forward, I propose that address our mutual concerns with a mediator.  If you agree, please confirm to me by Nov 27 so that we may begin a mediation process.

Sincerely, Mike"

I think we both know that your stbx will reject this plan, however the R3 letter will legally document both her behavior (in this case, some threat) and your reasonable response/solution.

Do not send R3s every time something objectionable happens, but do consider using this process to document the most egregious issues that, in "normal" or at least healthier dynamics could be resolved through a reasonable, cooperative process.

Sometimes simply thinking through this process and attempting to draft the letter can help align your thinking and keep you on track.  I've drafted a few R3s I didn't end up sending, but converted into journal entries instead. 

In time, you'll recognize when your stbx is seeking attention, stoking conflict, attempting to control you by keeping you engaged (by any means necessary), etc., and various outbursts will have far less impact. You'll be able to see through a given interaction to what's on the other side:  often, nothing.

In my case, I eventually reached a point where I advised my atty not to engage on certain points.  For example, my atty asked if I wanted her help to draw up an agreement re division of household items to be incorporated with stipulations pertaining to separation.  I said no thanks - it was a sideshow ripe for multiple volleys between the attys ($$$$) over many relatively low-value items. My atty agreed, and I built and proposed a list to my then-stbx directly, which she predictably rejected.  I did work with my atty on the major division of assets:  home, retirement accounts...  but kept the small stuff (and a number of petty arguments I could see coming a mile away) out of it.

Thanks for the advice.   I have been calm and quit talking to her.  A wee ago is the first time I told her I agreed with the divorce and m moving forward.   Just seems like the more control she loses over me the more she is escalating.  I haven't responded to any of her tantrums or let her know I saw these posts.  She's looking for attention or someone to validate her.  Sucks all around but in some ways I already feel more free.

[mikejones75093]

What is her main goal in completely trying to destroy me?

 She's making social media posts telling everyone how horrible I am.  Telling everyone how amazing she is and how abusive I am.  All BS. 

Shes got her phone on record secretly and editing what i say to make it sound bad and posting on social media. 

She's interviewing our kids in private to get any and all details of what I'm possibly doing wrong then emailing and offering to help me correct it.  Little things that don't matter,  no health or safety issues.  I was drinking a can of coke in the car and she has my young child saying it's beer.

Does she need a damn hug because she's hurt I'm moving forward or does she really want to take me down?   

Any hope I ever had of working this out is just gone.  She has spoken so bad of me I'm beyond hurt and sad.  The people that know me said it's disgusting and dropped her, but the people that don't know us very well are eating this crap up and telling her how amazing she is.

 

[SaltyDawg]

What is her main goal in completely trying to destroy me?

 She's making social media posts telling everyone how horrible I am.  Telling everyone how amazing she is and how abusive I am.  All BS. 

Shes got her phone on record secretly and editing what i say to make it sound bad and posting on social media. 

She's interviewing our kids in private to get any and all details of what I'm possibly doing wrong then emailing and offering to help me correct it.  Little things that don't matter,  no health or safety issues.  I was drinking a can of coke in the car and she has my young child saying it's beer.

Does she need a damn hug because she's hurt I'm moving forward or does she really want to take me down?   

Any hope I ever had of working this out is just gone.  She has spoken so bad of me I'm beyond hurt and sad.  The people that know me said it's disgusting and dropped her, but the people that don't know us very well are eating this crap up and telling her how amazing she is.

The smear campaign has begun - and more than likely, she is doing everything in her power to make you look bad, and her look good.

Unfortunately the recordings of you give her argument(s) a lot of weight, even if it is edited.  So, if you were speaking in an angry tone - it is going to work against you, or said things that you shouldn't have, that too will work against you like your comment "Does she need a damn hug because she's hurt".  Whenever you are around her, or speaking on the phone, use a calm voice, and keep it BIFF (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=134124).  From this point forward you need to be on best behavior and say and do as little as possible in front of her, also let your attorney know of the recordings, so they know how to handle the fallout.

A suggestion - You might want to make one BIFF style post for 'damage control' by taking the high road, indicating that you are in the process of divorcing, will not comment on her false and misleading statements taken out of context, and request understanding until the divorce is final and request your friends/acquaintances from refraining on commenting on a private matter between two individuals. (or something along those lines, your attorney can advise you the best).

[mikejones75093]

The smear campaign has begun - and more than likely, she is doing everything in her power to make you look bad, and her look good.

Unfortunately the recordings of you give her argument(s) a lot of weight, even if it is edited.  So, if you were speaking in an angry tone - it is going to work against you, or said things that you shouldn't have, that too will work against you like your comment "Does she need a damn hug because she's hurt".  Whenever you are around her, or speaking on the phone, use a calm voice, and keep it BIFF (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=134124).  From this point forward you need to be on best behavior and say and do as little as possible in front of her, also let your attorney know of the recordings, so they know how to handle the fallout.

A suggestion - You might want to make one BIFF style post for 'damage control' by taking the high road, indicating that you are in the process of divorcing, will not comment on her false and misleading statements taken out of context, and request understanding until the divorce is final and request your friends/acquaintances from refraining on commenting on a private matter between two individuals. (or something along those lines, your attorney can advise you the best).

She doesn't know I know about these posts.  She only invited people she thought would take her side.   I've known a bunch of them for over 20 years.  They reached out and sent me everything.  Already sent it all to my attorney.   It's just psycho. 

From what my friends told me I did raise my voice in the recording,  nothing like her, and not violent or anything.  I basically told her to stay out of my stuff and it was like the 10th time I had to tell her.  She moved all her stuff to the other end of the home and I don't mess with it.  Don't know why she thinks she can keep going through my things

I knew something like this might happen so I've been recording her blow ups for the past year.   She doesn't know I have all of that.

[SaltyDawg]

She doesn't know I know about these posts.  She only invited people she thought would take her side.   I've known a bunch of them for over 20 years.  They reached out and sent me everything.  Already sent it all to my attorney.   It's just psycho. 

Well, a 'borderline' historically was a person between sane and psycho...  Keep documenting, and try not to let it get under your skin.  Keep reminding yourself, that it is false, and false statements if believed by the wrong people can hurt, but you cannot do anything about what she does, other than let your attorney handle that portion if it becomes slanderous or libelous.


From what my friends told me I did raise my voice in the recording,  nothing like her, and not violent or anything.  I basically told her to stay out of my stuff and it was like the 10th time I had to tell her.  She moved all her stuff to the other end of the home and I don't mess with it.  Don't know why she thinks she can keep going through my things

As long as you are under the same roof, you can expect her to keep going through your things.  If possible, by an external lock, and lock the room with a key.


I knew something like this might happen so I've been recording her blow ups for the past year.   She doesn't know I have all of that.

Do the legwork, and segregate the worst of the worst for your attorney (it'll save you some money) - if the same topic, use the shorter recordings, but have a descriptive list of all your recordings with everything she has done.  Ask your attorney for subject matter(s) that the court would be willing to listen to. 


I know it is easier said than done, but try not to let your wife's behaviors get under your skin.

Take care with self care. 

[ForeverDad]

The smear campaign has begun - and more than likely, she is doing everything in her power to make you look bad, and her look good.

Or at least make you look worse than her.

A suggestion - You might want to make one BIFF style post for 'damage control' by taking the high road, indicating that you are in the process of divorcing, will not comment on her false and misleading statements taken out of context, and request understanding until the divorce is final and request your friends/acquaintances from refraining on commenting on a private matter between two individuals. (or something along those lines, your attorney can advise you the best).

Remember, you have been married for several years but only now that the marriage is ending she is more publicly complaining about you?  As frustrating as her complaining behavior has been over the years, the timing makes it clear that she is posturing.

[mikejones75093]

Or at least make you look worse than her.

Remember, you have been married for several years but only now that the marriage is ending she is more publicly complaining about you?  As frustrating as her complaining behavior has been over the years, the timing makes it clear that she is posturing.

I agree. My first thought was who does his in public?  Second, anyone that reads it, it sounds like a narcissist rant.  People that I'm good friends with and family already removed her and called it disgusting.

I invited a couple of the dads from my kids team over this weekend so the boys can run around and toss the ball.  I know them from my kids team but not that well.  One of the dads called me and said he saw the post from his wife.  Said he understands there are 2 sides.  How do you reply to this?  Just get the elephant out of the room and let them know it's all garbage? Or just keep moving on and not say anything?

[SaltyDawg]

I invited a couple of the dads from my kids team over this weekend so the boys can run around and toss the ball.  I know them from my kids team but not that well.  One of the dads called me and said he saw the post from his wife.  Said he understands there are 2 sides.  How do you reply to this?  Just get the elephant out of the room and let them know it's all garbage? Or just keep moving on and not say anything?

For those who have not experienced a Cluster-B relationship (BPD/NPD/ASPD/HSP/etc.) have no clue as to the dynamics and they think the truth is roughly halfway between what he said and what she said (I used to think this way myself before I became familiar with BPD).  However with a cluster-B, this is like a 5/95 (or better) ratio.  Eventually the truth will come out; however, this won't likely happen until a lot of damage occurs.

That said, not saying anything to this dad will admit guilt since you did not defend yourself.  However, you don't want to attack your wife, otherwise your wife's lies will get some teeth (catch-22).

I would take the high road, don't lower yourself to her level, and say something along the lines of “I’ve heard some things being said about me that aren’t accurate. I wanted to clarify in case you had any questions or concerns.” in the 'address it indirectly section of the article I linked in the next paragraph along with the other suggestions this article has.

I found an article with a lot of good common sense tips, it was near the top of a google search on the topic https://www.believeinmind.com/self-growth/when-someone-lies-about-you-to-others/

Take care with self-care.