Analyse and close the file.

[Depression = 72% of members]

The purpose of this new thread will be to put a veneer of understanding atop the debris of the last 4 years of my life, and the scars left by my experience with my ex.

I am, at the core of my being, someone who always seeks to understand a thing.

I believe this is  one of the reasons why I have found this on again off again, manipulative destructive relationship to be so addictive, alienating, and painful.



I will no longer be trying to figure out what she is going to do next, and the time of her having any influence in my life, decisions, and thought processes is done.



Let me first espouse the importance and efficacy of no contact.

Something it took me years to properly adhere to, and something I lied to myself about doing properly for many many months.

We are in our longest stretch of no contact ever, looking back I realize why she would always keep in touch with me and would not go dark for longer than like 30 to 45 days.

Whether it was conscious or not, intentional or not, somewhere in her mind she knows that that is how long someone stays hooked and addicted.

Having not had any conversation or contact in almost 2 months now, the level of clarity that I have been able to experience in the last month or so has been profound for lack of a better term.



So as much as I know that borderlines are unpredictable, erratic and inconsistent,  my scientific nature demands that I at least try to understand the condition, if not her specifically.



What follows is a list of behaviors or tendencies that stick in my mind. My intention here is to use those as a comparison to the rest of you, and the way that your partners behaved.  In the hopes that I will find some common denominator in the condition, and achieve some degree of understanding which will allow me to put the final shovel full of dirt on the grave of the last few years of my life. 4 years that I spent dedicating myself to what I have in recent weeks, come to realize was nothing more than an elaborate con artist.

If you have experienced any of these similar behaviors, please chime in.



1. Patterns and Cycles - Over the years I was able to  determine that she very much runs on seasonal patterns.

Autumn - Panic and Leave current relationship, start a new relationship within weeks.
Winter - Honeymoon phase fades as winter deepens, depression sets in. The failings of the partner are seen.
Spring - A reprieve from depression, and things usually stabilize here, but the relationship no longer has its "Sparkle" - the hourglass is draining.
Summer - Summer brings energy, new hobbies, new tasks, and the relationship begins to become a burden.
Fall - Rinse and Repeat, be it by recycling previous partner, or finding a new one.


I find the consistency of this particularly interesting. After 4 years, I've realized you can set a calendar to it. 



2. Moth to the Flame -  another common denominator  with borderlines is obviously the conditions of their childhood.  In my ex's case, she had an absent father and an abusive mother. Her mother is particularly monstrous, did horrible things to her as a kid, and went through men like toilet paper. The last of these is something specifically that my ex would mention on a regular basis as being damaging to her as a child. She has specifically talked about how she hated it, and refuses to be like her mother. Despite all of that, she does almost all of the exact same things her mother did to her, with the exception of physically abusing her child. She is a considerably better mother than her mother, and is dedicated to her daughter. However the cycling of men in her life is no different than her mother ever did. I saw her daughter lash out with bad behaviors both times I was kicked out of the house with my son. My son and I brought stability into the household that her daughter relied upon. I recently learned that the guy that my ex dated during our first break up,  did in fact move into the house and live there for the winter. My ex always said that he just stayed there a lot but never moved in. I have noticed she has a tendency to try and make sure she has a guy living with her throughout the winter to help her pay bills. I honestly believe that was the reason for us getting back together the second time. She literally just wanted to use me to help pay the bills throughout a tough winter.

My point is this, despite having grown up with certain behaviors and consciously and verbally recognizing how damaging they were to her as a child, and verbally refusing to do the same thing her mother did when she was a kid, it's like she can't help but follow in her mother's footsteps. Drawn to the Push-Pull relationships, constant need for drama, and inability to attach or be loved.  Drawn to the inevitable like a moth to the flame.



3.  The criticality of close contact -

engulfment, and the duplicitous dance it does with fear of Abandonment. What an awful toxic combination.

She was so intense at the beginning of our relationship that it even put me, the Hopeless Romantic that I am, a bit on edge. She was too intense in the beginning. She was like a kid with a new puppy. Then things settle down, and normalize. This lasts for a few months at most. Both of our breakups were triggered by situations of deepening our connection.
 First break up occurred shortly after going on a vacation together, and getting a puppy, and having lived together for about a year at that point.

Only when I was talking about moving out of state, and again in Autumn when she was bored with her replacement relationship, did she fear losing me, and take me back.
 Then again the following summer, after we went on vacation a second time and got engaged, 3 weeks after getting home the pushing away began.
 How many of you had situations where  a major discard or the end of your relationship was triggered by a Moment of growth and closeness?





I know this is a long post and I appreciate anyone who read this far.

[OKrunch]

The purpose of this new thread will be to put a veneer of understanding atop the debris of the last 4 years of my life, and the scars left by my experience with my ex.

I am, at the core of my being, someone who always seeks to understand a thing.

I believe this is  one of the reasons why I have found this on again off again, manipulative destructive relationship to be so addictive, alienating, and painful.



I will no longer be trying to figure out what she is going to do next, and the time of her having any influence in my life, decisions, and thought processes is done.



Let me first espouse the importance and efficacy of no contact.

Something it took me years to properly adhere to, and something I lied to myself about doing properly for many many months.

We are in our longest stretch of no contact ever, looking back I realize why she would always keep in touch with me and would not go dark for longer than like 30 to 45 days.

Whether it was conscious or not, intentional or not, somewhere in her mind she knows that that is how long someone stays hooked and addicted.

Having not had any conversation or contact in almost 2 months now, the level of clarity that I have been able to experience in the last month or so has been profound for lack of a better term.



So as much as I know that borderlines are unpredictable, erratic and inconsistent,  my scientific nature demands that I at least try to understand the condition, if not her specifically.



What follows is a list of behaviors or tendencies that stick in my mind. My intention here is to use those as a comparison to the rest of you, and the way that your partners behaved.  In the hopes that I will find some common denominator in the condition, and achieve some degree of understanding which will allow me to put the final shovel full of dirt on the grave of the last few years of my life. 4 years that I spent dedicating myself to what I have in recent weeks, come to realize was nothing more than an elaborate con artist.

If you have experienced any of these similar behaviors, please chime in.



1. Patterns and Cycles - Over the years I was able to  determine that she very much runs on seasonal patterns.

Autumn - Panic and Leave current relationship, start a new relationship within weeks.
Winter - Honeymoon phase fades as winter deepens, depression sets in. The failings of the partner are seen.
Spring - A reprieve from depression, and things usually stabilize here, but the relationship no longer has its "Sparkle" - the hourglass is draining.
Summer - Summer brings energy, new hobbies, new tasks, and the relationship begins to become a burden.
Fall - Rinse and Repeat, be it by recycling previous partner, or finding a new one.


I find the consistency of this particularly interesting. After 4 years, I've realized you can set a calendar to it. 



2. Moth to the Flame -  another common denominator  with borderlines is obviously the conditions of their childhood.  In my ex's case, she had an absent father and an abusive mother. Her mother is particularly monstrous, did horrible things to her as a kid, and went through men like toilet paper. The last of these is something specifically that my ex would mention on a regular basis as being damaging to her as a child. She has specifically talked about how she hated it, and refuses to be like her mother. Despite all of that, she does almost all of the exact same things her mother did to her, with the exception of physically abusing her child. She is a considerably better mother than her mother, and is dedicated to her daughter. However the cycling of men in her life is no different than her mother ever did. I saw her daughter lash out with bad behaviors both times I was kicked out of the house with my son. My son and I brought stability into the household that her daughter relied upon. I recently learned that the guy that my ex dated during our first break up,  did in fact move into the house and live there for the winter. My ex always said that he just stayed there a lot but never moved in. I have noticed she has a tendency to try and make sure she has a guy living with her throughout the winter to help her pay bills. I honestly believe that was the reason for us getting back together the second time. She literally just wanted to use me to help pay the bills throughout a tough winter.

My point is this, despite having grown up with certain behaviors and consciously and verbally recognizing how damaging they were to her as a child, and verbally refusing to do the same thing her mother did when she was a kid, it's like she can't help but follow in her mother's footsteps. Drawn to the Push-Pull relationships, constant need for drama, and inability to attach or be loved.  Drawn to the inevitable like a moth to the flame.



3.  The criticality of close contact -

engulfment, and the duplicitous dance it does with fear of Abandonment. What an awful toxic combination.

She was so intense at the beginning of our relationship that it even put me, the Hopeless Romantic that I am, a bit on edge. She was too intense in the beginning. She was like a kid with a new puppy. Then things settle down, and normalize. This lasts for a few months at most. Both of our breakups were triggered by situations of deepening our connection.
 First break up occurred shortly after going on a vacation together, and getting a puppy, and having lived together for about a year at that point.

Only when I was talking about moving out of state, and again in Autumn when she was bored with her replacement relationship, did she fear losing me, and take me back.
 Then again the following summer, after we went on vacation a second time and got engaged, 3 weeks after getting home the pushing away began.
 How many of you had situations where  a major discard or the end of your relationship was triggered by a Moment of growth and closeness?





I know this is a long post and I appreciate anyone who read this far.

[zachira]

I believe we analyze and continue thinking about how the disordered people in our lives have hurt us, in part, because deep down inside we would so much like an apology and for the person to change. There is so much pain to process when we have spent years in close contact with a disordered person/disordered people. The best piece of advice my therapist ever gave me was when in the presence of a disordered person, was to notice how I was feeling inside (instead of focusing on the other person). I find that the more I look inside of myself and come to develop a more coherent sense of self, the less I am interested in the reasons why so many of my family members have made me their scapegoat, just like they have with other family scapegoats for at least six generations. The truth for most of us is we learned as young children that our feelings didn't matter, that our lifetime job is to soothe the feelings of the disordered adults around us. People with BPD and NPD dump their uncomfortable feelings on others so they don't have to face how they really feel deep down inside. The constant melt downs and mistreatment of others defy logic most of the time. Keep working on self care and with time, you will gradually spend less time on trying to understand why you have been treated so badly by another person and will overall feel much happier with your life. What do you do for self care now? When the abuse has been long term, of course you will have moments in which you think about it, and the moments will become less overwhelming with time, though probably never completely go away.

[OKrunch]

I think one of the biggest hurdles is the cognitive disconnect that once you are discarded/dumped/whatever, that we all assume for a while that they are living their best life, and have dropped all bad habits, behaviors etc. Especially when bolstered with the knowladge of HOW they are during a honeymoon phase, and what that feels like.
I suppose its an ego fear that they will find the puzzle piece that makes them nuerotypical or at least able to act that way.

It takes the logical fortitude to defeat the emotional thinking and realize this is obviously not the case.
History oft repeats itself, and I find myself thinking more and more each day along the lines of "Yea, i still battle all the happy memories, those are what are prevelant to me. However I can more easily recall the daily arguments, emotional shutdowns, lies, double standards and so on far more clearly each day."

The random pop-up style happy memories are the hardest still, and I am still reeling a bit from having things so obviously and intentionally rubbed in my face a few weeks ago, but honestly I pretty much pity the poor fella.
When I got that text a few weeks ago, with all its territorial bravado, all i could think was "Oh, you sweet summer child".
knowing how easy it is to fall into Knighthood when the "Abusive, monsterous ex" is discussed.
I do not miss being the prime focus of such scheming trinagulation.

Already starting many new healthy habits. 2024 will be a great year.

[OKrunch]

Also, just keeping track of the things that have persisted to remain on my mind, despite the longest unbroken stretch of NC we've ever had, and its intended to be lifelong.
I know a lot of these can be answered by simply saying "Remain blocked and in NC and these are moot issues" and I agree, but I am just journaling what has been bouncing around my grey matter.

1.) I feel as though there is still some degree of "ownership" of me on her end. She's living her life and wants nothing to do with me, and I feel the same. Somehow I firmly believe that (and my T agrees) that when I have moved on and am living a new life with new people, it will offend her somehow because after all I am supposed to stay in the box i was put in.

2.) The recent "text from her BF" only serves to solidify the above. It was assumed I would be deeply hurt, and would fly into a rage or a fit of depressed begging at the specific mention of things ive listed in the past to her that I valued, now being flaunted as "His". This was clearly her typing and it was directly intended to upset me. So if someone is happy and living a happy life with a new partner, why stir the pot?
CONTROL thats why. Both putting me in my place and concreting her hold on Newguy.
I think id count it as a partial victory on her part that I am still thinking this much about it.
Gonna work on that.

3.) She holds on to items, mail and other such things as a backup plan to have a reason for contact. Which is why, despite several requests in the past, I still havent gotten my terrarium back, or some of my tools.
Chalking both up as losses, which is unfortunate as the terrarium was a 3 year sealed bottle type i built with my son.

4.) Patterns, Cycles and Seasons. She repeats her behaviors like clockwork. That tells me I need to be extra vigilant come springtime.

[OKrunch]

Moving into the new year, I am really trying to focus the lense inward.

I have spent so much time trying to figure out why my ex is the way she is, why she does the things she does. Etc.
It has been very clearly pointed out to me that this is a fruitless pursuit.

Moving forward, I am going to be really focusing on answering the following things about MYSELF.


1.) Why do i "Flourish" when in a relationship, and so prone to depression and negative self thoughts when I am not?
I need to be content to be single.

2.) My Ego. This has been the biggest struggle in trying to let go entirely.
I still crave the "recycle attempt" if only to tell her to Eff off, i daydream about this often. The moment I would finally tell her NO MORE to her face. I know this is not needed, and would only cause more pain and elongate my healing, but boy does my Ego desire it.
I still ruminate on the things that were "unjust" that I and my son endured as part of this dissolution.
I see so many of you that are able to let go, not hold grudges and not wish for karmic retribution, which I still hope for way more often than I would like to admit.
How do i reach true 100% apathy when it comes to her? I look forward to the day she doesn't cross my mind in any way, shape or form.

3.) Kill the "Gut Link". As recently revisted in my other thread, I am still getting random "gut feelings" and empethetic intuitions that are very obviously "Not my feelings". I have struggled to describe this phenomeneon accurately, and it challenges my scientific mind, but it has been too consistant and accurate to ignore.
I have already tried a number of "Cord cutting" type exercises, and will be looking into and doing more to squash this lingering facet of my wound.

4.) Forgivness. This is the final hurdle. Only when I truly achice apathy, when my ego is at rest, and when my gut is quiet, can i begin to forgive her. Forgiveness will be the final step in patting down the dirt on the grave of our relationship, and the past 5 years.

[tina7868]

Hey OKrunch,

I can feel through your words the self work you are putting in. It is a process that is not easy, but is so so fruitful, and I am thankful that you continue to share it with us. It is also a process that, I think, doesn`t have an ending; there is always more to learn, more perspective to gain. To me, that`s what keeps life interesting.

I see so many of you that are able to let go, not hold grudges and not wish for karmic retribution, which I still hope for way more often than I would like to admit.

Everyone has their own journey. Comparing ourselves to others is normal (I certainly do it!), but remember that a big component in focusing your lens inwards is to allow yourself to feel how you feel, to accept it and let it be.

Of the four points you bring up, is there one that is especially important to you, that you want to focus on first?

[OKrunch]

Hey OKrunch,

I can feel through your words the self work you are putting in. It is a process that is not easy, but is so so fruitful, and I am thankful that you continue to share it with us. It is also a process that, I think, doesn`t have an ending; there is always more to learn, more perspective to gain. To me, that`s what keeps life interesting.

Everyone has their own journey. Comparing ourselves to others is normal (I certainly do it!), but remember that a big component in focusing your lens inwards is to allow yourself to feel how you feel, to accept it and let it be.

Of the four points you bring up, is there one that is especially important to you, that you want to focus on first?

Definitley the Ego bit.
I am feeling it today specifically, There are still two halfs of my mind playing tug of war over her reaching out.
Half of me hopes she doesn't and it's just dead and gone forever, and my ego half wants her to reach out, just to validate everything ive felt over the past months.
Today for some reason my brain decided to miss things. The kids together, the dogs, etc.
Just another day on the pendulum, this morning I swung into the "I wish things had been different, and we couldve figured things out" realm, so naturally I am anticipating swinging back into the "Im glad shes gone, and leaving me alone" realm.

I am proud of myself for reaching 90 days of complete NC, and social media checking.

[jaded7]

Definitley the Ego bit.
I am feeling it today specifically, There are still two halfs of my mind playing tug of war over her reaching out.
Half of me hopes she doesn't and it's just dead and gone forever, and my ego half wants her to reach out, just to validate everything ive felt over the past months.
Today for some reason my brain decided to miss things. The kids together, the dogs, etc.
Just another day on the pendulum, this morning I swung into the "I wish things had been different, and we couldve figured things out" realm, so naturally I am anticipating swinging back into the "Im glad shes gone, and leaving me alone" realm.

I am proud of myself for reaching 90 days of complete NC, and social media checking.

You should be proud of yourself, 90 days is really good. I'm now 4 years out, no contact, and I miss things, I miss 'us'.....but I'm also much clearer on how abusive the language and treatment was. I know that a partner that called me those things and yelled at me, pointed a finger in my face as she was yelling at me, etc.   is out of control and is not showing love.

I get that split desire to hav her reach out so you can tell her off, or reach out to reconnect if only to validate the bad behavior and pain it caused you.

That's one of the worst things about being in a relationship with a BPD-like person, ver little validation and very little emotional support. And being told that you are the problem, you are the one that dropped the ball and hurt HER.

[OKrunch]

I've been thinking a lot about the conditioning we go through as partners of borderlines.

We get programs to expect certain behaviors,

This stretch of no contact has been twice as long as any other in the past between her and i.

I have felt on edge since before the holidays, because holidays, but I think another piece of it is that we recycled so many times that I have come to expect it, and since it has been such a long stretch of no contact that expectation has turned into anxiety of a sort.

After completely getting back together after one break up, and several many recycles since, it just becomes the expected behavior pattern.

While I barely spend any time missing her now, which I am very pleased about, her, our relationship, and the possibility of future behaviors are still all on my mind pretty much daily.
It's like I've been so built up to expect her to touch base eventually, even though at this point I hope she doesn't, it just sticks in my mind as a possibility and I want to eventually be free of that thought process too.

They say I can go weeks without thinking about any of it, at all, I'll be happy, and it honestly feels like that may not be too far in my future.

As much as certain aspects of long term NC are still nagging at me NOW, I much prefer the mindset of "I wish things would stop reminding me of the situation, and I hope she stays out of touch"
As opposed to "I miss her so much, how could she do this to me, I thought she loved me, I'm dying"

I just wish there was a way I could know 100% for certain that she finally pissed off for good. Lol

[OKrunch]

Rough weekend, I cant seem to shake this feeling that we are always connected, depsite wanting the opposite of that.

Im still so angry about things sometimes, I wouldve thought that with the departure of my desire to reconcile, that eventually the death of the connected anger would fade.

I am still very conflicted by "Still loving someone i hate"
What the hell even is that?

As always the "She's living it up while I lost everything" is still a big source of pain.
She had zero reprocussions from any of her selfish BS. After all she stole from my son. She has had no concsequences.

Mostly though, its this lingering sense of connection that irks me. Like each day part of me still expects to hear from her, if only for some drama reason.

My divorce didnt mess me up NEARLY this bad. I'm pretty pissed today, and mostly pissed at myself for my continued intemittent attachment.

WHY DO I MISS WHAT I FUNDAMENTALLY KNOW IS FALSE, HURTFUL, SELFISH AND MANIPULATIVE.???

[SaltyDawg]

WHY DO I MISS WHAT I FUNDAMENTALLY KNOW IS FALSE, HURTFUL, SELFISH AND MANIPULATIVE.???

Short Answer:  You are STILL 'trauma bonded' to her.

Better Answer:  On your next therapy session with your T, ask her how you can become less trauma bonded with her.  Until this session happens, do research on how to be less trauma bonded.  Google "how to break a trauma bond with an ex?" and you will see thousands of resources, browse them, and see which one resonates with you best and then share that with your T to see if it is effective for you.

In the mean time, do some self-care (this also helps).

Take care.

SD

[tina7868]

Rough weekend, I cant seem to shake this feeling that we are always connected, depsite wanting the opposite of that.

Im still so angry about things sometimes, I wouldve thought that with the departure of my desire to reconcile, that eventually the death of the connected anger would fade.

I am still very conflicted by "Still loving someone i hate"
What the hell even is that?

As always the "She's living it up while I lost everything" is still a big source of pain.
She had zero reprocussions from any of her selfish BS. After all she stole from my son. She has had no concsequences.

Mostly though, its this lingering sense of connection that irks me. Like each day part of me still expects to hear from her, if only for some drama reason.

I`m sorry you had a rough weekend.

It sounds like two things are prominently bothering you : 1) a lingering sense of connection, which makes you feel like you want to hear from her, which in turn makes you feel angry at yourself 2) a belief that she has `won` (no consequences, enjoying herself), which make you feel pain. Would you agree with these points, or would you put them differently?

I wonder, if we focus on 1), whether we can drop the second part, the part where you are angry at yourself. What if you accepted that, yes, you still feel a connection, but you didn`t judge yourself for it. Yes, you want to hear from her, and it hurts, and it`s okay to be in that space.

WHY DO I MISS WHAT I FUNDAMENTALLY KNOW IS FALSE, HURTFUL, SELFISH AND MANIPULATIVE.???

I think you can answer this best. There are many elements at play: the fact that you cared, a lot, the addictive nature of the relationship, the push and pull dynamic... All of that may linger, and as you heal you can follow each thread to create a better understanding as to what ultimately makes it challenging to let go. And as you do that, give yourself compassion, since it is more complicated than meets the eye. Hang in there.

[OKrunch]

Tina,

After typing this, I read the thread discussing "Empathy for BPD" and that thread really helped me put things into perspective.

Cognitive dissonence is a thing, and I still think the "Dr Jekyll vs. Mr. Hyde" fight is still going on in my head.
Despite knowing Hyde is the true persona, i WANTED Jekyll to be the true persona SO BAD, that my mind still (despite knowing better) often confuses these two personas and Its easy to forget about Hyde when I am missing Jekyll.

[OKrunch]

Saw the first triggering images in a long time. Ex-DIL came up as a suggested connection on Facebook, and saw pics she had recently taken of the new guy, My EX and her all enjoying the snow day from earlier in the week. The new guy playing with my puppy etc.

Definitely got under my skin more than Id like to admit.

and Tina, to touch on what you said. I am mad at myself for still being attached, when everything in my logical mind is very much done. I am mad my emotional mind hasnt caught up. Still, even well over a year later.

[seekingtheway]

It's frustrating isn't it how you want those emotional feelings to turn off, you've processed all the logistical side of it and you just want to move on... but those feelings linger.

I guess the timeline will vary for everyone, but I wonder if the anger and frustration you have with yourself and potentially with her is something that might be holding you back a little? I once heard something along the lines of us holding onto anger because it's the only thing we have left of that person - the last tie. Even if the anger isn't with her, it's related to your experience with her... letting go of the anger can sometimes feel scary because when that's gone, all of it's gone... not sure if any of that would land with you?

I relate to you about holding this tight idea of the story not yet being over, and I'm not sure what your story was with your ex, but if there was any push/pull like there was with my ex, then it becomes an imprint in your mind of how the relationship works - they leave, they come back, they want you, they don't... so you're just expecting more of the same, so it's almost like you need to re-program your brain with something else when those thoughts pop into your head. Bringing the focus back to you and saying out loud what you want here??

[OKrunch]

It's frustrating isn't it how you want those emotional feelings to turn off, you've processed all the logistical side of it and you just want to move on... but those feelings linger.

I guess the timeline will vary for everyone, but I wonder if the anger and frustration you have with yourself and potentially with her is something that might be holding you back a little? I once heard something along the lines of us holding onto anger because it's the only thing we have left of that person - the last tie. Even if the anger isn't with her, it's related to your experience with her... letting go of the anger can sometimes feel scary because when that's gone, all of it's gone... not sure if any of that would land with you?

Oh, its definitely holding me back, and i want so much for it to be gone. I am doing all I can to try and "cut the cord" and so on. I think A lot of it is connected to loss. Losing the life i thought we were building, the memories we had forged, and so on. It makes me feel duped, fooled and lied to.
I'd say its not so much that I am holding on to anger, but it feels like anger is holding on to me. If that makes sense. Its that Logic vs. Emotion battle. My logic has been there for months now, but I am a romantic to my core, and obviously pretty susceptible to trauma bonds and some codependent behaviors.

I relate to you about holding this tight idea of the story not yet being over, and I'm not sure what your story was with your ex, but if there was any push/pull like there was with my ex, then it becomes an imprint in your mind of how the relationship works - they leave, they come back, they want you, they don't... so you're just expecting more of the same, so it's almost like you need to re-program your brain with something else when those thoughts pop into your head. Bringing the focus back to you and saying out loud what you want here??

1000% I read a bunch about "intermittent stimuli" and the Gamblers Addiction style that a lot of BPD people tend to show in their behaviors, much of which I believe is something they do mostly subconsciously, and if not subconscious, they do it out of desperation. Anything is better than being truly alone to them, at any cost, even their integrity and scruples.
It definitely programs your brain chemistry and the dopamine-cortisol tango is one HELL of a drug.
We all do it in one way or another, She has been programmed to my head to be my source of dopamine, and even after ALL THIS TIME, that neural pathway is still there, but it WILL eventually become overgrown and forgotten from disuse.
This is the same thing I remind myself when I am feeling jealous or hurt by the many replacements Ive seen now in the past 4 years.
It is her way of feeding that dopamine need, that new person, that wonderful limerence.
So as you mention, the effort of late has been to reprogram and repave those neural pathways.

But Borderlines, based off all I've read here, can pave a neural pathway so solid and difficult to erode, they would, make a Roman engineer blush, so truly and fully re-training that pathway, will (no pun intended) be a hell of a long road.

But I'll get there. We all will.

[OKrunch]

lots and lots and lots of incoming energy and intrusive thoughts today.

Despite a cleansing meditation last night that went really well.
I swear, something is coming down the pipes.

Tiny Gods i just want some true peace. I feel like I don't remeber what that feels like.

[Pook075]

lots and lots and lots of incoming energy and intrusive thoughts today.

Hey buddy.  I still have those as times and in some ways, I probably always will until I'm completely into the next stage of my life.  The big thing that helped me is knowing that I'm better off without her and being out of a toxic, co-dependent relationship.  It was a learned behavior I spent 24 years learning, so it's not simple to just forget it and move on.

I'm to the point where my wife and I talk fairly frequently now, but it's only as friends and parents.  I feel blessed because I've finally been able to say what I had to say for me to have closure, and she took it in stride with understanding.  I don't have to worry about no contact anymore because I've finally healed enough where contact outside of the relationship feels normal.

In my case, my wife and I only talked maybe 5 or 6 times over a year period, so I actually had enough time for self-reflection and healing.  You didn't have that luxury and because you kept getting pulled back in, it was like the band-aid was being ripped off over and over again.  I did that for the first few months and it was unbearable, so I'm not sure how you've survived this long in that ugly cycle.

Keep your head up brother and keep searching for answers.  You may never find them, but I promise you that she's not an evil woman who was out to destroy you.  She's just sick and can't handle relationships once she gets too close...it stinks but it is what it is.  I'm really happy you're starting to see the bigger picture and realize that this wasn't your fault- it's been that darn BPD all along and there's no way to "fix" it.

[seekingtheway]

I think A lot of it is connected to loss. Losing the life i thought we were building, the memories we had forged, and so on. It makes me feel duped, fooled and lied to.

I relate to this so much - this is the hardest part for me as well with my ex. It's the story and vision that he sold to me over and over again... a story that I desperately wanted and he described to me in vivid detail... and he would give me tasters of it, then pull away.

I do realise that he was coming towards me from his anxiety, rather than a sense of trust in himself... his words projected that he was in absolute control and knew exactly what he wanted and what he was capable of giving and doing, but the reality is that he doesn't have control over any of those things. I realised I need to process the relationship based on his actions rather than his words... but that's really difficult.

I talked to him about this in our most recent breakup and he owned the fact that he kept making promises he couldn't deliver on, and he admitted that he made those promises so that he wouldn't lose me. It was his fear of abandonment speaking from the beginning, which means yes, in a certain kind of way, we were duped.

There will be someone else out there who can actually deliver the things that were promised, albeit maybe a bit more of a realistic version of the fairytale... sometimes I think it's about identifying the parts of the fairytale that you really wanted so badly, and embodying them in yourself...  and then finding someone else who can actually join you on that level. Getting really clear about what drew you in and actively bringing a truer version of that into your life.

[OKrunch]

I'm to the point where my wife and I talk fairly frequently now, but it's only as friends and parents.  I feel blessed because I've finally been able to say what I had to say for me to have closure, and she took it in stride with understanding.  I don't have to worry about no contact anymore because I've finally healed enough where contact outside of the relationship feels normal.

In my case, my wife and I only talked maybe 5 or 6 times over a year period, so I actually had enough time for self-reflection and healing.  You didn't have that luxury and because you kept getting pulled back in, it was like the band-aid was being ripped off over and over again.  I did that for the first few months and it was unbearable, so I'm not sure how you've survived this long in that ugly cycle.

This is where I am at with my ex wife (previous relationship, not ExBPD), we had a lot on animosity for quite some time due to a nasty court case, but she has grown a lot, and so have I. We co parent really well now. Its quite nice.
The level of peace and indifference I now have with my ex wife, is where I personally aim to be with my recent ex, with the one difference being that there is no need for contact.

Keep your head up brother and keep searching for answers.  You may never find them, but I promise you that she's not an evil woman who was out to destroy you.  She's just sick and can't handle relationships once she gets too close...it stinks but it is what it is.  I'm really happy you're starting to see the bigger picture and realize that this wasn't your fault- it's been that darn BPD all along and there's no way to "fix" it.

Despite my frequent anger, I know this to be true. When the jealousy and anger burns away, I legit feel bad that I know what she has now will also not last. Ex-Step Daughter will experience loss again. and again.
My ex said so many times when she was more "lucid" - "I refuse to be like my mother, and always cycle through men" but sadly that is exactly what she does. I know in the core of her heart she doesn't want to be like that, but she can't help it.
This is further evidenced by the fact that both periods of devalue and eventual discard came after major milestones of relationship closeness. Its the classic engulfment trap. I highly doubt she continued with therapy, as she had not been going when we were last in touch, and that just seals the deal on the cycle repeating itself. 2 weeks before gloatingly telling me she was "with someone who made her so happy" (key point HE makes HER happy, as that is the ultimate goal. she cant be happy herself, and is still trying to rely on others to do it for her, which is impossible.) she had told me she was "Blissfully Unattached" these things just show me how impulsive and "tidal" she is, for lack of a better term. Around that same time she also said "Ill probably always be fleeting". She said this in a very depressed and dejected tone. Like she knows it will always be her fate. Sometimes I wonder if she does what she does to "protect" the people she is close with, to push them away before she does bigger damage. Which obviously wasnt the case with us, but it seems reasonable based on other relationships she has had.
I spend A LOT of time in anger, feeling betrayed, being angry on behalf of my son,
but I would be lying if i said I didn't miss her, didn't often still want her, etc.
The difference now is a head vs heart thing. My heart wants what it wants, and part of that is due to my own relationship issues, but in my head I know it could never work again.
This is what worries me the most about future recycle scenarios.
I know I have been the one person she always bounce back to, no matter how many times shes bounced away.
Although this new relationship of hers feels like the first "Real" one since her and I met, I can't help but assume it will tank eventually, and Im not sure if I would be able to say no if she called me looking for care, affection and support right now. I know how bad Id want it, to be there for her, but each recycle has been shorter, and more viscious.
I can't do that to myself again, even if it was an option, or ever is again.

I am working on forgiving her, so I can be at peace. Then, the only place it has left to go is a dustyf forgotten corner of my mind.

[OKrunch]

Afterthought:

I am trying to also deal with frequently letting my feelings of anger and betrayal turn to wishes of vindictive karma.

In dark moods I will wish that she gets fired from her job, rent gets increased or lease not renewed.
I have hoped the dogs crap on the floor, and the house is a pain in the butt (it wasnt originally designed for 4 season living, winter there is difficult). I have wished I could reach out from a private number and just tell her shes awful and selfish. I have hoped her car breaks down.

I think it is largely due to feeling cheated, and robbed.
I found the house, I setup the rental. Yet she is the one who has stayed there, twice, during both breakups.
I helped her get her new job through MY sister in law, who has since been laid off, but my EX is still there.
It was my idea to get the dogs, but she kept them both.
My son got kicked out, got on the bus one morning and never got to come home. Her daughter has lost nothing (not that I want her to, its just the unfairness of it all that irks me)
She kept a great many things I bought for the house (Mower, tools, etc)

Put simply, She was the bad relationship partner, but only gained better housing, a better job, and loving pets, all of which My son and I had to lose, leave or not get, But yet everything is my fault, I am the toxic partner, and all the other ways she has avoided any responsibility or blame.

I know these thoughts are not healthy, and they are a major motivator to truly forgive and forget.

"Hate is baggage. Life's too short to be pissed off all the time. It's just not worth it."
Danny Vinyard (Edward Furlong) American History X

[SinisterComplex]

This is where I am at with my ex wife (previous relationship, not ExBPD), we had a lot on animosity for quite some time due to a nasty court case, but she has grown a lot, and so have I. We co parent really well now. Its quite nice.
The level of peace and indifference I now have with my ex wife, is where I personally aim to be with my recent ex, with the one difference being that there is no need for contact.
Despite my frequent anger, I know this to be true. When the jealousy and anger burns away, I legit feel bad that I know what she has now will also not last. Ex-Step Daughter will experience loss again. and again.
My ex said so many times when she was more "lucid" - "I refuse to be like my mother, and always cycle through men" but sadly that is exactly what she does. I know in the core of her heart she doesn't want to be like that, but she can't help it.
This is further evidenced by the fact that both periods of devalue and eventual discard came after major milestones of relationship closeness. Its the classic engulfment trap. I highly doubt she continued with therapy, as she had not been going when we were last in touch, and that just seals the deal on the cycle repeating itself. 2 weeks before gloatingly telling me she was "with someone who made her so happy" (key point HE makes HER happy, as that is the ultimate goal. she cant be happy herself, and is still trying to rely on others to do it for her, which is impossible.) she had told me she was "Blissfully Unattached" these things just show me how impulsive and "tidal" she is, for lack of a better term. Around that same time she also said "Ill probably always be fleeting". She said this in a very depressed and dejected tone. Like she knows it will always be her fate. Sometimes I wonder if she does what she does to "protect" the people she is close with, to push them away before she does bigger damage. Which obviously wasnt the case with us, but it seems reasonable based on other relationships she has had.
I spend A LOT of time in anger, feeling betrayed, being angry on behalf of my son,
but I would be lying if i said I didn't miss her, didn't often still want her, etc.
The difference now is a head vs heart thing. My heart wants what it wants, and part of that is due to my own relationship issues, but in my head I know it could never work again.
This is what worries me the most about future recycle scenarios.
I know I have been the one person she always bounce back to, no matter how many times shes bounced away.
Although this new relationship of hers feels like the first "Real" one since her and I met, I can't help but assume it will tank eventually, and Im not sure if I would be able to say no if she called me looking for care, affection and support right now. I know how bad Id want it, to be there for her, but each recycle has been shorter, and more viscious.
I can't do that to myself again, even if it was an option, or ever is again.

I am working on forgiving her, so I can be at peace. Then, the only place it has left to go is a dustyf forgotten corner of my mind.

No reason to focus on forgiving her. Provide yourself the peace and forgive yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

No reason to focus on forgiving her. Provide yourself the peace and forgive yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

You're right.

Ok, real talk time, and for once it has very little to nothing to do with her.

Desire vs. Reality: For a long time, I legitimately wanted things back to the way they were. Then as I continued to be treated like crap, this shifted to me wanting to detach, but still also wanting reconcilliation in the back of my head. I was lying to myself about wanting to never hear from her again. It's not what I wanted, but what I knew needed to happen, so I spent a lot of time convincing myself of this.
Lately, it has shifted again to a point where I know I'm done, and detachment in every single form is the full legitimate goal.
However, I still find myself dwelling on things on a very (annoyingily) regular basis. This is still true today.
The main difference is that no part of me wants to continue anything with her.
I still have times that I miss and remensice, but that doesn't equate to wanting her back. just aftershocks of the earthquake really.

Here are all of the intrusive thoughts that I struggle with. Some of these were hard to type out here, because I feel like some of them come off as arrogant or obsessive. It is my hope that being honest about some of the things that get stuck in my head will help them go away.

1.) I still feel like every other man she has dated (that I know about) is "not her type" "nothing like me" and "dumber than she deserves" (we always connected well through deep conversation and these guys all seem to be ....Oafish for lack of a better term)

2.) Despite all of my logic concious thoughts of how I was treated, lead on, lied to, and generally diesrespected, I cannot shake this feeling that "things aren't over yet", even though for the first time ever I legitmately want them to be totally and fully dead. I just want peace, and this "sense" that it isnt over is irksome.

3.) The "gut feelings" / "Soul Tie" type stuff persists, and has gotten stronger in the last few weeks. Again I have tried over and over to find logical explinations for this, but I have not found any. If the connection is still there, then this isn't over, and I am working very hard to sever that connection. I Used to think it was a two way thing, but I dont think so anymore.

4.) Frequent happy memories. This is something I've mentioned before. They come in randomly, and pretty often.
They are like 3 second clips of "mental videos" from times we shared. I can be otherwise occupied doing something with my day, and they hit.
The most confusing thing about these I find, is that any BAD memories, fights, etc. all require me to activley think about them and recall them, whereas these "nostalgia bursts" come in randomly and frequently.

5.) The expectation. - I mentioned the Gamblers Conditioning the other day, and this truly is one of the most nefarious side effects on a NON after a BPD relationship. You are trained to always expect them to come back, so when you are in the midst of a silent treatment, discard, or full blown breakup, even for LONG periods of time, you always have that one piece of you that is expecting, or waiting for them to resurface.
This seems to be able to shift over time from "I hope they miss me and reach out soon" to "I'm worried that they will come back and I won't be strong enough to ignore them" or even to "I hope they do so I can tell them how awful they are and how much they hurt me"
I have been in all three places, and some in between, but I do believe this is done by them on purpose.

And what ties ME and MY mental health to all these things you may ask?
My ego.
I still feel like I Lost, like I was dupped, and part of me still feels like someone stole my life, my home, my love and my family.
This is egotistical thinking. This is not healthy, and keeping me attached, or at least engaged in this toxic cycle.

So very recently I have been trying to frame things differently in my mind.
All of these things are outside my locus of control.

I deserve someone who chooses to love me, consistantly, and I am only disrespecting myself by hoping for any form of karma, closure, comuppance, or reconciliation. I need to be happy with myself, and being single. No matter what phase of detachment I was in, I was still thinking about what I wanted, felt like I needed, or wanted to see happen.
I was a good partner (not perfect), I am a good man, and a good husband and father.
For someone with such a difficult ego, I find putting myself down pretty easy when I am in a bad mood.
It is easy for me to feel worthless, unlovable, and generally a bad person, but these things aren't true.

So, how have you all managed to contain your ego when youre feeling cheated, and robbed?
How do you balm it when you are feeling worthless and unlovable?

How can this dichotemy exist?

[OKrunch]

Had a good date night on Saturday. Hoping that pans out, very interesting lady!

This most recent stage of recovery has become quite annoying.

It is terribly frustrating to be logically 100% moved on, and still deal with the intrusive thoughts.

Last few days have been full of vindictive desires.
I can't stop dwelling on hoping that her job, housing or other aspects of her life are chaotic, stressful and just go badly.

I don't want to think this way. I aim for 100% apathy when it comes to her. I want to truly not care.
The dogs are still a big point of contention for me. That and the looming "She has never gone COMPLETLEY away, and I wonder when she will resurface" feelings are really taxing.

In better news, the "mood dumps" i get when these intusive thoughts show up are a lot shorter in duration.

[OKrunch]

Afterthought:

I know the feelings of wanting failures to pop up in her life is based off of my feelings of having been "robbed" of things like the dogs, the house, etc.
That seems to me to just be jealousy and ego. Which I know will fade with time.
The house is a pain in the winter, it BLEEDS heat, it floods, its muddy and messy. There is a lot to love about that house, but a lot I DO NOT miss.
To a much lesser degree I could say the same of the dogs. In my previous absence of our first breakup, the first dog didnt get trained well, and she has seperation anxiety and is an emotional pooper. I don't miss that either, but damn I do miss my doglets.

Secondarily, and in my opinion far more importantly, is the desire I have to see the relationship fail.
If it DOES fail, it tells me that all the observations and patterns ive learned about her are true, that her life is dominated by the need for limerence, attention and then the fear of abandonment, engulfment and devalue discard stuff. It all fits, and It has shown itself to be true over the years.
However if that relationship does NOT fail,  it tells me that all of the things i studied, guessed and learned about her and BPD are maybe not correct, it would make me feel like maybe I was the toxic person in this pairing, and that if she could actually find a stable healthy pairing, that It would make me feel like the disordered person.

I know the shape of my own soul, and in my heart I know which of these two things are true, but If the latter were proved, or came to be i guess, it would definitley call everything ive learned over the past year and a half into doubt and that could seriously mess me up.

Very odd times. It almost feels like things were far more simple when I just wanted her back and missed her hahaha

[Pook075]

However if that relationship does NOT fail...

...that means he's an emotional punching bag that takes her crap and doesn't flinch at the sight of chaos.  That's still failing no matter how you look at it.

[OKrunch]

...that means he's an emotional punching bag that takes her crap and doesn't flinch at the sight of chaos.  That's still failing no matter how you look at it.

 I agree, that is the unspoken third outcome, and I agree that is very much failing, probably the worst form of it.
Ironically that is the one outcome I would be totally unaware of too, which is also probably for the best.

I am just glad I am at a point of trying to understand MYSELF and how our relationship effected ME, rather than all the time I spent trying to figure her out, change myself to fit her needs, and convincing myself that the relationship was anything other than toxic.

[OKrunch]

106 days of NC, 2.5x longer than ever before.
Gut feelings are active today and yesterday.

Standing strong.

[Pook075]

106 days of NC, 2.5x longer than ever before.
Gut feelings are active today and yesterday.

Standing strong.

I've realized something lately.  Some days, I wake up with negative energy and wonder what's going to happen, what I might have done wrong, etc.  As you'd put it, I'd wonder what the universe was trying to tell me (in my case, that's God).

What I've realized is that if I'm having a bad morning...or if I'm just in a sad or grumpy mood...it has nothing at all to do with the universe (for me, God).  Instead, it has everything to do with my outlook and how I can sabotage a perfectly good morning by focusing on all the wrong things.

I still have some bitterness that I can't completely let go of.  I accept though that it is a "me problem" and not the world around me.  Even as a Christian, I am in control of what I focus on and what I allow into my life.  The mistakes, if it's even fair to call them that, are mine and mine alone.  I am the captain of this ship and the universe (for me, God) is my North Star for guidance.  I'm still the one steering though and the fault is mine.

[SinisterComplex]

I've realized something lately.  Some days, I wake up with negative energy and wonder what's going to happen, what I might have done wrong, etc.  As you'd put it, I'd wonder what the universe was trying to tell me (in my case, that's God).

What I've realized is that if I'm having a bad morning...or if I'm just in a sad or grumpy mood...it has nothing at all to do with the universe (for me, God).  Instead, it has everything to do with my outlook and how I can sabotage a perfectly good morning by focusing on all the wrong things.

I still have some bitterness that I can't completely let go of.  I accept though that it is a "me problem" and not the world around me.  Even as a Christian, I am in control of what I focus on and what I allow into my life.  The mistakes, if it's even fair to call them that, are mine and mine alone.  I am the captain of this ship and the universe (for me, God) is my North Star for guidance.  I'm still the one steering though and the fault is mine.

I truly enjoy your outlook here. Sometimes I purposely like to sit back and observe and just watch the growth happen with maybe a little nudge here and there, but Pook for you especially...watching you engage with the forum at large you provided yourself your own therapy and you are on the right track.

Runchie, I would say my sentiments apply to you here as well. The way I see it is that sometimes you just need to know that there are others out there listening but observing and allowing you the space and freedom to grow and get your thoughts out. I would ask both of you to go over your own material and see the growth for yourselves. Compare where you were to where you are now. You are your own best teachers. 

So...Atta Boy #bropound 

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

I truly enjoy your outlook here. Sometimes I purposely like to sit back and observe and just watch the growth happen with maybe a little nudge here and there, but Pook for you especially...watching you engage with the forum at large you provided yourself your own therapy and you are on the right track.

Runchie, I would say my sentiments apply to you here as well. The way I see it is that sometimes you just need to know that there are others out there listening but observing and allowing you the space and freedom to grow and get your thoughts out. I would ask both of you to go over your own material and see the growth for yourselves. Compare where you were to where you are now. You are your own best teachers. 

So...Atta Boy #bropound 

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

There are some glaring differences in how i was 6 months ago vs now.
I was still hoping to reconcile then. I wasnt sleeping well, and i was constantly furious.
Now I am confident in myself, a bit lonely but otherwise fine.
The MAIN difference is the fact that I have finally valued my own self respect over her "Love", because it isnt love, its transactional attention needs.

Pook - I own my attitude and my own behavior. I have not caved to desires to act vindictivley and out of petty spite.
That being said, I cannot say i feel the same way as you do.
I gave this human all of my love, trust, closeness to my son, and so much more. I stayed available to her after one majorly life disrupting discard. The 2nd one had me homeless in the dead of winter. Her complete lack of empathy and selfishness is inexusable. It is MY responsibility to continue to manage my anger at the situation and my emotions, but she failed on every opportunity to be a trustworth person. So while I am working to drop my anger for her, it is 100000% justified anger.
Additionally, I can very easily tell the difference between my own anger, and the external incoming emotions that do not belong to me.
She is constantly in strife, angry and has to be fighting with SOMEONE.
I for one, am sick of recieving those emotions, she tossed me aside, and I WILL NOT be there for her to lean of for support when she does eventually reach out to tug on her reigns, and she will, mark my words, and I will be nonesxistant when that day comes.

[OKrunch]

feeling fairly stagnant today, and yesterday.
Which, i suppose tracks, as it's the dead of winter.
Things feel locked in place, but I am grateful to at least be locked in a place far more at peace than I was months ago.

I have very very optimistic feelings about spring, and I need to use the time between then and now to work on improving my body and mind, for I feel like my soul is in the right place right now.

But, I do so look forward to spring. I can already feel its energy on the horizon.

[SaltyDawg]

I have finally valued my own self respect over her "Love", because it isn't love, its transactional attention needs.

I really like this perspective of a borderline's so called "LOVE" - they are "transactional attention needs".

Thanks for sharing.

[Pook075]

feeling fairly stagnant today, and yesterday.
Which, i suppose tracks, as it's the dead of winter.
Things feel locked in place, but I am grateful to at least be locked in a place far more at peace than I was months ago.

I have very very optimistic feelings about spring, and I need to use the time between then and now to work on improving my body and mind, for I feel like my soul is in the right place right now.

But, I do so look forward to spring. I can already feel its energy on the horizon.

Good for you brother!  I don't know where you are in the US, but I think we are all ready for Spring to arrive.  I'm in the Southeast and it hasn't been above freezing for two days now.

Philosophically, I also agree though.  I feel like 2024 is going to be an amazing year and I am so excited to see what it brings.  Lots of new beginnings!

[seekingtheway]

I really like this perspective of a borderline's so called "LOVE" - they are "transactional attention needs".

Thanks for sharing.

This really resonated for me too - made me stop and sit with it for a minute, because so much of the relationship with my ex was exactly this. Not all of it, and I feel he had a desire to be there for me, but I don't think he knew how to - it literally isn't in his psyche and emotional development to think that way...

[OKrunch]

Woke up feeling very......distant from the whole thing.
To wake one day feeling like something that has consumed your life for the past year to be all the sudden so much further away is odd.

Though it is kind of refreshing, it is still ON MY MIND, which is where I am trying to get away from.

I think there is a small piece of me that still fears that we will never interact again.
I could go on about how I still occasionally feel betrayed, and that there is still this sense of "we were meant for eachother, how in the 9 hells did this happen, how did we end up here??"

Frequent "Flashes of happy memories" are still a thing.

So not a whole lot different today, other than that subliminal feeling of things being far mor distant.

Ill refer back to what I said about Winter and Stagantion the other day.
I am eagerly anticipating changes, and I just need to be paitent.

[OKrunch]

Missing Dr. Jekyll today pretty hard.

Still so dissapointed that she can't be her "happy self" all the time.

Its truly shocking how they can be two people at once.
I still miss and love the one half of her SO MUCH.
But that other half......Damn. Its harsh.

[OKrunch]

I am still wishing and hoping her relationship fails. - That is unhealthy, I shouldn't care, and I should be content to focus on my own life. I still can't help but feel like my son and I didn't deserve this.

I am still jealous of the new guy, despite not wanting to be in a R/S with her, because of how I have been treated, It still bothers me to have been replaced (several times).

I am still angry I lost so much, and she lost nothing, and seems to not care at all about all we built and lost, and the things that she gained though our relationship that she never even thanked me for.

The established narrative that she did basically nothing wrong, and places the blame for all the MANUFACTURED arguments on my shoulders.

I just want peace. I want to no longer have her, or our time together cross my mind.
I do not still think about my ex-wife this way, why won't it go away with HER too?

I thought my divorce broke me, I had no idea how much worse this relationship would be, both on my life and on my emotions.

When do the invasive thoughts go away?
When do I get to go a day without thinking of it?
I am really starting to doubt my own mental health, and why this addiction cut me so freaking deep.

I just wanted to be a loving husband and father, for the last decade of my life, and all it ever does is blow up in my face.
Sick and tired of being sick and tired, and lonely to boot.

Sorry for the whine session, I miss her a lot today, and I am 1000% pissed at myself for it.
She doesn't deserve this dedication, she doesn't deserve my love, or any rentspace in my head.

I have been trying to tell myself she is dead.
I lost my brother to addiction back in 2014, and I feel guilty because I feel like have mourned this relationship more than my own flesh and blood. This has cut me deeper, messed me up more, and honestly hurts more.
That doesnt seem healthy to me, and I want it to go away.

I wish I had never met her.

[OKrunch]

Is there anything in the "Tools" that is like, a reality check checklist?
I feel like i would benefit from something like a list of questions to answer that would combat the congitive dissonance.

I logically know how toxic of a relationship partner she is, and I can stop and tell myself all the reasons she is abusive.

However when the intrusive thoughts are at play, Its all happy memories, family moments, amazing sex and the plans we shared for a future that will never exist.

I need to do like, pros and cons or something.
Im so mad at myself for being such a clingy weakling right now.

I am still hurting over someone that left me a year and a half ago, and strung me along for an entire year.
TWICE.
What the hell is wrong with me?

[kells76]

Hey OKrunch;

Not sure if you've seen these yet, but in the Detaching board lessons, lesson 2 is about 10 beliefs that can get you stuck. You may have already thought through or faced some of those beliefs, but if not, you could copy the ones that resonate with you, paste them here, and maybe work on them with the group -- could be one approach.

Lesson 3 also stood out to me as a possible "reality check":

How do you detach and process the pain?
Detaching can be difficult. Rationally, we understand that leaving is the healthiest thing we can do now, yet our emotional attachment is undeniable. This conflict confuses and intensifies our struggle and we may feel trapped by our desires to rekindle a relationship that you know it isn't healthy - and may, in fact, not even be available to you - and our own fears.  Our emotions range between hurt, disbelief, and anger.
 
The tools listed below can help you break away from a partner with borderline personality disorder and they offers suggestions on how to make it easier on yourself and your partner.  There is no quick fix.  This is a painful process.

Sounds close to where you're at, where logically you "get it" that it wasn't a healthy relationship, yet you keep feeling those cords that seem to bind you to her -- the emotional connection. Might be worth a look?

...

It's hurt you for a while. 

[kells76]

I'm also curious if the angry part of you is angry because that's motivation to protect the hurt part of you? Like -- the angry protector wants to shield the hurt aspect of you from damage?

If so, it might be interesting to reframe the "I'm mad at myself for being weak" narrative to "I'm energized and alert to protect the vulnerable part of myself, because I deserve protection". You know yourself best so you'll know if that fits or is off base.

[OKrunch]

Wow. I'm flabbergasted right now.

After getting out of work today, I got home and took a shower and then went to lay down after my shift. The gut feelings came roaring in like a freight train, and I tossed and turned in my bed for a while.

Then my phone goes off, I open it to find a text message full of eighth grade level spelling, vulgarity, and masculine posturing from my ex's current boyfriend.

Apparently a package or some sort of mail showed up at the house today with my name on it. I changed my address a year ago, I have no idea what it might be, but apparently it sent him into a rage.

He continued to berate me via text for about 10 minutes, he sounded like a teenage want to be gangster. Every other word was a swear, and he was trying to tell me to come over so he could fight me. I told him that I would call the police if he contacted me again and then I blocked his number.

I have racked my brain about what mail might have shown up, and the only thing I can think of, is that I took my son to the doctor's office a few weeks ago when he had a cold and they recommended having some covid tests at the house. My doctor did some clickety-clackity on her computer, and told me that I would have some covid tests in the mail. I suspect the doctor's office has my old address on file.

I can't believe how completely childish the string of text I just got was, it reeked of insecurity, anger and triangulation.

Boy what a refreshing reminder of what I don't have to deal with anymore. And if that's the type of guy that she chose to replace me with? I am laughing my butt off.
A lot of his insults were based around the fact that I like to "be the smartest person in the room" which was really odd and specific. For the record I don't, but how do you come up with an insult like that without the other person having talked at length about me.? Oh the triangulation. Good luck buddy. Lol

Anyway, I just called my best friend and we are going to head into the seaport to grab some dinner and a beer at my favorite tavern.

I was pretty damn angry earlier, but honestly now I'm laughing at the whole situation.

[Pook075]

Wow. I'm flabbergasted right now.

After getting out of work today, I got home and took a shower and then went to lay down after my shift. The gut feelings came roaring in like a freight train, and I tossed and turned in my bed for a while.

Then my phone goes off, I open it to find a text message full of eighth grade level spelling, vulgarity, and masculine posturing from my ex's current boyfriend.

Apparently a package or some sort of mail showed up at the house today with my name on it. I changed my address a year ago, I have no idea what it might be, but apparently it sent him into a rage.

He continued to berate me via text for about 10 minutes, he sounded like a teenage want to be gangster. Every other word was a swear, and he was trying to tell me to come over so he could fight me. I told him that I would call the police if he contacted me again and then I blocked his number.

I have racked my brain about what mail might have shown up, and the only thing I can think of, is that I took my son to the doctor's office a few weeks ago when he had a cold and they recommended having some covid tests at the house. My doctor did some clickety-clackity on her computer, and told me that I would have some covid tests in the mail. I suspect the doctor's office has my old address on file.

I can't believe how completely childish the string of text I just got was, it reeked of insecurity, anger and triangulation.

Boy what a refreshing reminder of what I don't have to deal with anymore. And if that's the type of guy that she chose to replace me with? I am laughing my butt off.
A lot of his insults were based around the fact that I like to "be the smartest person in the room" which was really odd and specific. For the record I don't, but how do you come up with an insult like that without the other person having talked at length about me.? Oh the triangulation. Good luck buddy. Lol

Anyway, I just called my best friend and we are going to head into the seaport to grab some dinner and a beer at my favorite tavern.

I was pretty damn angry earlier, but honestly now I'm laughing at the whole situation.

Hey buddy.  Remember that he has been told a completely different narrative of what happened between the two of you, and he's simply trying to "protect his girl."  Personally, I feel kind of sorry for the guy since he has no idea what's in store for him in the near future.

With that said though, if feels like some type of mental illness from him as well.  Stay away, my friend, stay very far away.

[OKrunch]

Hey buddy.  Remember that he has been told a completely different narrative of what happened between the two of you, and he's simply trying to "protect his girl."  Personally, I feel kind of sorry for the guy since he has no idea what's in store for him in the near future.

With that said though, if feels like some type of mental illness from him as well.  Stay away, my friend, stay very far away.

I'm hoping to change jobs soon.
I am most assuredly staying far far far away.

Ive never been more sure of that.

[OKrunch]

The text document I had been using on my computer for the last year to journal my day to day progress got deleted / corrupted. So I am kind of irritated to have lost something i spent so much time tracking.
That said, It almost feels like it was supposed to happen. The shearing off of another thread that kept me tied to the scenario.

Despite my constant efforts to remain centered and keep my mind on other things, the past few days have been rife with nerves and "gut feelings" since the situation over the weekend with her caveman unleashing his insecure anger at me over a peice of old mail.

I still haven't made heads or tails of the emotions I've felt over the last few days.
its been a weird few days.

[Pook075]

The text document I had been using on my computer for the last year to journal my day to day progress got deleted / corrupted. So I am kind of irritated to have lost something i spent so much time tracking.
That said, It almost feels like it was supposed to happen. The shearing off of another thread that kept me tied to the scenario.

Despite my constant efforts to remain centered and keep my mind on other things, the past few days have been rife with nerves and "gut feelings" since the situation over the weekend with her caveman unleashing his insecure anger at me over a peice of old mail.

I still haven't made heads or tails of the emotions I've felt over the last few days.
its been a weird few days.

That really stinks, but unfortunately it happens.  If you start over, back it up online with an app like Google Docs or iCloud.

I do agree though that not much good can come from looking back at the past...other than to see your own progress.  As a writer by trade, I can tell you that the magic comes from the repetition, the actual writing, and its very therapeutic in itself to place your emotions on the page.  So don't stop- keep writing!  You honestly didn't lose anything.

[OKrunch]

Writer by trade?

I have some questions about paths to getting published / Making a living from writing.

[OKrunch]

Steps I have achived.

- I see her for who she is, not who my psyche wants her to be. This includes the good and the bad.
- I can sleep and operate normally each day.
- After way too long, I finally prioritized my own self respect over her transactional "Love"
- I no longer try to think of ways to win her back, or restore or old life.
- I am LOGICALLY totally over this. There is no part of my logical mind that tries to rationalize her behavior or dream of a future that wil not exist.

Steps I still need to achive.
- Intrusive thoughts and flashback memories. These are easily the biggest issue to quell. If this did not happen, I would have peace everyday.
- Remaining Jealousy and Ego wounds. It still bothers me that she downgraded so hard, which shoudn't make me feel "les than" but it still does. I still get angry about the manner of the breakups, the house, dogs, kids etc. These are ego wounds, and nothing else. Losing them doesn't make me less than either, but it still feels like they do.
- Imagining a scenario where she comes back, and I am able to tell her no, ignore her, etc. This is more ego wound at work. There is still a part of me that needs to feel like I've "won". This bothers me because agaim logically, I know this to be a fruitless road. NC is the only thing for us now, so I need to know and accept that. I won't get to get my "Win" and I need to stop imagining that I might.
- General rentspace in my head. I still very often think about missing the good parts and i dissect all our past arguments, looking for BPD signs and flaws in her logic. Again, this is fruitless and is only serving to delay total detachment.

[kells76]

Writer by trade?

I have some questions about paths to getting published / Making a living from writing.

Not sure if you all have seen it -- that would be a perfect topic for our "stump the experts" (non-BPD topic) board. Don't hesitate to post those questions there!

[Pook075]

Not sure if you all have seen it -- that would be a perfect topic for our "stump the experts" (non-BPD topic) board. Don't hesitate to post those questions there!

That works, I'll put something together there on where to start a career and viable income paths.  Thanks Kells!

[OKrunch]

I feel kind of stuck.
I made A lot of progress from October through the winter to now.
However I feel like my progress got halted and stuck over the last month or so.

In every sense of the word, I am logically and cociously over all of this. I don't want to be disrespected, I don't want to be part of the cycle. I've put up with enough, and furthermore, she has been very distant. She is in a new R/S, has been for 6 months, and has not been reaching out, doing any hot/cold BS. I very rarely miss her or anything,

I feel more like myself than I have in a long time, however I do feel still stuck in it.

It is still on my mind everyday, and I am still stuck thinking about when she will resurface and screw all my progress up.
This is one of the last things I need to let go.
I still try to understand BPD, her patterns, I still expect she will pop up again sometime, and am still trying to plan around that.
I need to get to a place where i concern myself with none of these things.
I need to get to a place where she truly has zero impact on my day, and zero presence in my mind.

I am still looking at further changes for 2024 (if this chaotic world allows that)
Hopefuly a new job, a new vehicle, and a much better summer with my son.

I will also recognize that it is the middle of winter, seasonal depression is a thing.
Also, I am quite lonely, and that makes remeniscing on good times easy to do.

I have faith in Spring.

[OKrunch]

Did some more racking of my brain, and using this mostly to journal.

This may be something I have touched on before, but it is at the heart of my journey and stuggle.

It is the fact that I cannot shake the feeling that things are not over.
This is NOT something i experienced with my divorce many years ago.
I believe the reason for this feeling is multifaceted.

Firstly, there is the conditioning or the "Gamblers addiction" at play.
This time last year she was "considering the relationship" and we were hanging out.
She pulled away, then reapproached again in the summer, all tiny recycles.
Of course I was there and very willing to participate.
However, this constant hot cold swap over the course of the last 3 years has made me always expect that there is still some unresolved business with us two.
I have also gotten it into my head that I am and have been (despite my current and frequent status as painted black) her "Best Partner". We stayed together longer than any other relationship of hers, both times, and we always seem to orbit back to  eachother. Although this particular discard does feel fully final. She has kept me blocked on social media longer than ever (over a year at this point). She hasnt made a temp check since September, and seems to be veryyyy much smearing me to her BF and friends. All of which is New"ish" territrory.
I know in my heart that this is just her rolling through her "rolodex" when she hits low points with other partners.
For some reason when she finds replacements, they are my polar opposites.
Machismo type bro dudes, into cars and stuff.
Her and I always bonded over intellect, writing, history, and so on.
Lastly, there is the "gut feelings".
This was YET AGAIN affirmed to me as accurate this past saturday with the whole Mail scenario and her angry BF.
I felt that 30 min before he actually texted me.

Sorry for the run-on-paragraph.
These things combined give me a very strong constant feeling that the cords are still between us, that it will rear its head again in the future (late summer if i were to guess).

As I mentioned in previous posts, I cannot fully say that I do not want this to happen down the road.
My ego still wants this to occur, even if my mind does not.

There is that last piece of acceptance that is really challenging me.
I need to be Okay with, even HAPPY at the idea that I will NEVER SPEAK TO HER AGAIN.
Right now, it doesn't feel 100% on that, but hopefully it will soon.

I may not be interested in A R/S with her anymore, and I cannot forgive the things that Ive had to deal with because of her selfishness, but It would taste a Lie to say that I am, right now, 1000% ready to never hear from, speak to or hear her voice again.
Part of me still wants to know I meant something, at least fleetingly to her.
It is Ego.

So, How do we calm our ego's gang?
Inquiring minds want to know!

[Pook075]

It is the fact that I cannot shake the feeling that things are not over. 

Hey buddy.  To be honest, I still catch myself thinking at times, "Well, what if...."

I'm not in love with her.  She hurt me deeper than anyone's ever hurt me before, and she's not sorry she did it.  I cringe whenever she calls, just in anticipation of some demand or hatred that I don't deserve.

Yet a part of my primitive brain still occasionally thinks, "Well, what if..."

Here's the thing though, my wife doesn't get to decide when it's over for me.  I fought the good fight for almost a year, taking her abuse and returning kindness.  Eventually I just realized that I don't want to return to that lifestyle, that relationship dynamic, the constant push and pull.

I decided that it was over.  Not for her or anyone else, but for me.

And yeah, she dumped me 18 months ago.  Reconciliation was never an option...for her.  Now it's not for me either.  That's because I also get to choose, just like you do.

Maybe your ex does eventually come back for another round.  It's not up to her though since relationships take two.  You get a vote and it's perfectly okay if that vote is a 'no'.  You get to decide and take that power back from her.

I need to be Okay with, even HAPPY at the idea that I will NEVER SPEAK TO HER AGAIN.
Right now, it doesn't feel 100% on that, but hopefully it will soon.

As I've mentioned in other threads, I talk to my wife almost daily...even though we're divorcing in a few weeks.  I don't have to hate her in order to move on.  And trust me, it would be so easy to hate her, but again...I get to choose for me.

You mentioned ego and how to get over that.  My ego is part of how I moved on, because I deserve to be loved for who I am...without any other stipulations.  I am a better person than how I was treated, I didn't deserve any of that.  So I'm choosing divorce while also choosing a basic friendship for the kids sake.  They're all my active choices and there are certainly boundaries as well.

In Christianity, we're taught to hate sin.  We're also taught to love people, even when they're sinners.  Especially when they're sinners.  And to top it off, we're told not to judge.

So how the heck does that work?  It's sort of the paradox here.  I love my wife, I hate what she did to our marriage, and I'm not holding it against her anymore.  I've forgiven her and moved on, which allowed me to love her again (as a person) despite her faults.  A relationship with her doesn't even cross my mind anymore because I've chosen to walk away.

Make the choice my friend.  Make the choice.

[OKrunch]

Hey buddy.  To be honest, I still catch myself thinking at times, "Well, what if...."

I'm not in love with her.  She hurt me deeper than anyone's ever hurt me before, and she's not sorry she did it.  I cringe whenever she calls, just in anticipation of some demand or hatred that I don't deserve.

Yet a part of my primitive brain still occasionally thinks, "Well, what if..."

Here's the thing though, my wife doesn't get to decide when it's over for me.  I fought the good fight for almost a year, taking her abuse and returning kindness.  Eventually I just realized that I don't want to return to that lifestyle, that relationship dynamic, the constant push and pull.

I decided that it was over.  Not for her or anyone else, but for me.

And yeah, she dumped me 18 months ago.  Reconciliation was never an option...for her.  Now it's not for me either.  That's because I also get to choose, just like you do.

Maybe your ex does eventually come back for another round.  It's not up to her though since relationships take two.  You get a vote and it's perfectly okay if that vote is a 'no'.  You get to decide and take that power back from her.

As I've mentioned in other threads, I talk to my wife almost daily...even though we're divorcing in a few weeks.  I don't have to hate her in order to move on.  And trust me, it would be so easy to hate her, but again...I get to choose for me.

You mentioned ego and how to get over that.  My ego is part of how I moved on, because I deserve to be loved for who I am...without any other stipulations.  I am a better person than how I was treated, I didn't deserve any of that.  So I'm choosing divorce while also choosing a basic friendship for the kids sake.  They're all my active choices and there are certainly boundaries as well.

In Christianity, we're taught to hate sin.  We're also taught to love people, even when they're sinners.  Especially when they're sinners.  And to top it off, we're told not to judge.

So how the heck does that work?  It's sort of the paradox here.  I love my wife, I hate what she did to our marriage, and I'm not holding it against her anymore.  I've forgiven her and moved on, which allowed me to love her again (as a person) despite her faults.  A relationship with her doesn't even cross my mind anymore because I've chosen to walk away.

Make the choice my friend.  Make the choice.

I have made the choice, I am just hoping for peace. Relief from the thoughts.
Its the lingering nagging thoughts of
"when will she show up?"
"My gut is telling me something is wrong, is everything ok?"
"Did i ever matter to her?" etc.


I don't want a relationship with her. I don't want to reconcile.
I don't want her half a$$ed explanations or excuses.
I just want peace within my own mind.
To be 150% at peace with everything.
I want to not be haunted by my past.

[Collaguazo]

Hi OKrunch,

I would also like to share some of my observations. I broke up recently with gf after being together 1.5 years.

Regarding your pattern about seasons, I couldn’t say because I live in a country without 4 seasons .

2) Moth to the flame: To my understanding she had a normal childhood, at least that’s what she told me. However, completely  agree how they are attracted to the drama. I once read in a forum from people who suffer BPD that is common to have this urge to create drama either out of boredom, to test limits or to feel in control. Also, most were aware that they were creating drama out of nothing but couldn’t control themselves.

3)Intimacy and closeness: After the honeymoon phase I did notice she became more uncomfortable over time with intimacy and closeness. Sometimes I would hug her and she would physically push me away, almost like a reflex. It was not aggressive, just the feeling of her arms pushing against you. She would also sit down, put her purse on her lap and grab it like she needed protection. I would jokingly tell her can you put down your captain America shield so I can give you a hug?

She didn’t like kissing, sometimes even turning her head when I wanted to kiss her goodbye. And then there was the sex. She was definitely good at it physically but I never felt any emotional connection. Cuddling and foreplay rarely happened. She just wanted a “quickie”. One time, after we had not been intimate for a few weeks, I asked if something was wrong and she screamed at me: I am not your wife! I have no obligation to have sex with you! She kind of saw sex as a transaction.

4) Triggers: You never know what can trigger them but it definitely got worse when she was stressed. She would start lashing out as a way to ask for help, which the she refused when I offered it. I even learned to anticipate, still refuse and later on get angry because basically I didn’t “protect” her.

5) Grudges: when we were arguing it always ended in 3-4 events that no matter how much I apologized, accepted she was right to feel angry or explained what happened, could not let go.

6)Infidelity/back ups: I am fairly certain she cheated on me once but I am a 100% sure she was texting with other guys as back up, not exactly flirting but just doing enough to keep the door open. She even admitted once that it made her feel safe.

7)Splitting: painted white happened each time with less frequency and intensity while painted black was the opposite. This is a common trait in BPD and I don’t know if some idealize and devalue at the same levels over time but in my case towards the end I basically was the guy that ruined her life.

[Collaguazo]

Another thing I would like to add.

8) Anger: It had 3 categories. a) Projecting her flaws and frustrations on me, b) Hurt on purpose with something personal, c) Truth revealing fits of rage (That’s how I learned she met with her ex boyfriend for lunch and kissed him. She later denied that they kissed and that she only agreed to meet because he had some unresolved issues and wanted closure. BS if you ask me.)

[cranmango]

"Did i ever matter to her?" etc.

The relationship was real, and it mattered to you.

I'm 18 months out, and these thoughts still float through my mind, too. I remind myself what I know to be true (I loved her), what I wish was true (that our relationship had been healthy), and what I will never truly know (how she understands what happened).

[Pook075]

The relationship was real, and it mattered to you.

I'm 18 months out, and these thoughts still float through my mind, too. I remind myself what I know to be true (I loved her), what I wish was true (that our relationship had been healthy), and what I will never truly know (how she understands what happened).

I completely agree.  Validate your own participation, not someone else's.  If it was real to you then it was real.

[OKrunch]

The scenario with her boyfriend flipping out of me last weekend has been stuck in my head and really pissing me off.

I am sorely tempted to send her a message politely asking for whatever showed up in the mail for me, my terrarium I've been trying to get back for months, and to tell her tomorrow her frothing neanderthal on a shorter leash.

It's stuck in my head

[once removed]

It's stuck in my head

it wont be, forever.

I am sorely tempted to send her a message politely asking for whatever showed up in the mail for me, my terrarium I've been trying to get back for months, and to tell her tomorrow her frothing neanderthal on a shorter leash.

but if you do this, you are really just acting on your attachment, and keeping attached. it may result in greater drama.

if you genuinely want your belongings back, dont do it with bluster and drama. wait.

[Pook075]

The scenario with her boyfriend flipping out of me last weekend has been stuck in my head and really pissing me off.

I am sorely tempted to send her a message politely asking for whatever showed up in the mail for me, my terrarium I've been trying to get back for months, and to tell her tomorrow her frothing neanderthal on a shorter leash.

It's stuck in my head

If I was in your situation, I'd handle this a lot differently.

I would personally call the boyfriend and ask him to meet you somewhere with your things in a public place.  I would be kind and polite, and thank him for his trouble.  If he swings on you or screams at you or anything else, then I'd show him empathy long enough for someone to call the police.  And I wouldn't bad-mouth your ex either, I'd simply make it known that you haven't been in contact and you have no idea why there's all this drama.

This does two things.

#1, it lets him see that you're a genuinely nice guy, which will make him question some of the things she's said or did.

#2, it will infuriate her since it breaks down some of her victim narrative. Since she's blocked though, he will get all her rage.

Brother, this isn't your fight and you shouldn't be fighting it any longer.  I feel sorry for the Neanderthal, he's clearly being manipulated and he has no clue what he's dealing with.  I would make it crystal clear in the guy's mind that you're not the enemy and you wish him luck since you have a pretty good idea how this will turn out.

[OKrunch]

it wont be, forever.

but if you do this, you are really just acting on your attachment, and keeping attached. it may result in greater drama.

if you genuinely want your belongings back, dont do it with bluster and drama. wait.

I agree, I'm leaving it alone.
I don't want to, but it's the better course of action.

I think part of the temptation IS drama, which I ultimately don't want.
I'm pissed about how Ive been portrayed and treated, what happened last week really got under my skin. It was extremely hard to stay as calm in my response as I did. If there's one thing I hate, it's a vulgar, stupid, toxic masculinity machismo jerk, and he is that in spades.

It's frustrating when I finally adhere to NC and put myself first, then I have to deal with this insecure, angry, offensive prick coming out of left field.

It feels like I'll never have peace of life and peace of mind.

[OKrunch]

If I was in your situation, I'd handle this a lot differently.

I would personally call the boyfriend and ask him to meet you somewhere with your things in a public place.  I would be kind and polite, and thank him for his trouble.  If he swings on you or screams at you or anything else, then I'd show him empathy long enough for someone to call the police.  And I wouldn't bad-mouth your ex either, I'd simply make it known that you haven't been in contact and you have no idea why there's all this drama.

This does two things.

#1, it lets him see that you're a genuinely nice guy, which will make him question some of the things she's said or did.

#2, it will infuriate her since it breaks down some of her victim narrative. Since she's blocked though, he will get all her rage.

Brother, this isn't your fight and you shouldn't be fighting it any longer.  I feel sorry for the Neanderthal, he's clearly being manipulated and he has no clue what he's dealing with.  I would make it crystal clear in the guy's mind that you're not the enemy and you wish him luck since you have a pretty good idea how this will turn out.

This is certainly a good way of handling it, and I am considering doing exactly what you've outlined.

My concern is that this dude has proven to be quite volitile, and I don't think he would have any reaction besides further rage.
I don't feel like dealing with that, as putting my own anger problems to bed was a pretty hard journey.
I don't want some drama fueled confrontation to ruin all that work.

On the other hand, your two points you make about what this would achive are both quite on point.

Lots to think about.

[Pook075]

My concern is that this dude has proven to be quite volitile, and I don't think he would have any reaction besides further rage.

Personally, I would defend my character and get my things.  And maybe that's the dumb thing to do, I really don't know.  I did that recently at a family birthday party- everyone was told what a horrible person I was, yet that's not what they saw.  I smiled, I was social, and I did my thing being kind to others.  Never said a single word against my wife though or tried to defend myself in any way. 

Yet, they saw who I was, saw how I interacted with my wife, and those narratives went right out the window.

This guys seriously hates you for things he's been told- things that are grossly exaggerated or flat-out lies.  It's completely up to you what comes next, but I'd get my kid's medical stuff.

[OKrunch]

Well, the confectioner of life has swooped in to put a crap icing on the dung cake that is my life of late haha.

My boss, who has been sick and in and out of the hospital since Christmas, texted me at 8pm last night and told me he is closing the business and fired me.
He has been dodging bills and not ordering product for months now, and I was already looking for work, but I was not expecting him to S**t-can me so abruptly.
Im really irritated because if he had put the steps in place to let us run the business when he was sick, things would have been fine. We had business, but he screwed up all the orders and seems to have grossly misallocated a lot of money.

I however still look at this as an oppotunity.
In the year after my divorce (2018) I ended up getting a new job after having been at the previous one for 9 years.
I got a new apartment, after a year of couch surfing with family and friends, and eventually a new car.
I completley reset my life in 2018.

I had lost my job 2 weeks before the FIRST breakup with EXPWBPD back in 2020, then got this current job during our split. Then after our 2nd Breakup in Sept of 2022, I was yet again effectivly homeless, did the 6 months in the camper, and then moved to this apartment in April of last year.
My car is about ready to be replaced.

So it looks like I will again get a full life reset, Job, Apartment, Car, and eventually relationship.

As much as I hate being unemployed, this WILL be an opportunity.
I interview well, and my job was very dead end. I was already very much planning on new things.
This just jump starts that process.
Lastly, that job is only a few miles from the house EXPWBPD and I shared, that she is now sharing with The Neandrethal.
This will only serve to add more distance between us, and eliminates a location where she could just show up and see me when she wanted to (I worked alone, the store was close, and she did exactly this during our last breakup, once she wanted to paint me white again, she started "popping in" to my work).
I deserve to make more than I was making, and even my Therpist had urged me to look for work.

This job was one of the last dead leaves to fall off of the Autumn Tree that was my previous life.
It leaves room for new spring growth, new opportunities and the possibility that I will finally be able to get ahead and buy a house for myself and my son.

one step back to leap miles ahead.
Excelsior.

[SaltyDawg]

OKrunch,

   That sounds so frustrating; however, I am glad to see you plan on making lemon-aid out of that lemon you were just handed regarding your job.  Perhaps, it is life's way of pushing you to move on.

   Take care with self-care.

SD

[OKrunch]

OKrunch,

   That sounds so frustrating; however, I am glad to see you plan on making lemon-aid out of that lemon you were just handed regarding your job.  Perhaps, it is life's way of pushing you to move on.

   Take care with self-care.

SD

I agree, something about that job (likely the proximity) always felt like it was tied to my ex. Its close by, she had stopped by unannounced on multiple occasions, and so on.

Something about getting canned from there feels like a tie to her has been severed, despite the fact the two are unrelated.

[Pook075]

As much as I hate being unemployed, this WILL be an opportunity.

Hey buddy.  I've been unemployed for almost three months now- similar situation where things just blew up and were outside my control.  I've steadily looked for work and the next opportunity hasn't arisen yet, but I'm staying positive knowing that good things are coming. 

It's easy to be down in the moment but like you, this is an opportunity and I'm very excited for the next chapter of my life.

Good things are coming buddy, lots and lots of good things!  I'm glad you have the right mindset!

[OKrunch]

My sons new favorite show has taught me to Go Beyond, Plus Ultra.

Spring is dawining and I am dead set on making 2024 a banger.

[OKrunch]

Typed out a message to The Guy, after Pooks advice. Havent sent it yet.

"I wanted to reach out and clear the air,
You seem to be under the impression that I've been trying to get in touch or continue contact. I haven't since August, and have zero desire to do so now.

Let me make this abundantly clear, I do not want what you have, and I wouldn't want what you have even if I was single. That chapter is far past over dude.

The letter I sent in November was only an attempt to get my terrarium back, and in so far as whatever mail showed up a few weeks ago I have no idea what that is.
Perhaps you and I could work together facilitate the return of my terrarium jug.
I don't understand why you were so hostile and vulgar with me when all I was trying to do was get one of my belongings back. I don't know you, I don't want to fight with you and I don't want to have beef with you, but I don't think it's correct or fair for you to spit venom at me like that, when you don't know me or my side of the story.

I no longer work in ******, so let me know if there's any way you can think of to return my terrarium.
Thanks."


Any thoughts on revision before I send it?

[once removed]

what is the point?

to get your terrarium back?

to defend yourself?

to send a message to your ex?

[OKrunch]

what is the point?

to get your terrarium back? - YES, it has sentimental value to my son and I. I have asked her for it back more than once. Always ignored. I always suspected she was holding on to it for a reason to get in touch down the line.

to defend yourself? - No, couldn't give a damn what either of them think.

to send a message to your ex? - 1000% No, I don't want to interact with her.

Still haven't sent the message.

[once removed]

to get your terrarium back? - YES

to defend yourself? - No, couldn't give a damn what either of them think.

to send a message to your ex? - 1000% No, I don't want to interact with her.

if your goal is solely to get your terrarium back, dont send such a letter.

and dont expect to achieve it through her ex, the guy you think is a neanderthal 

i would encourage you not to expect to recover the terrarium at all. consider whether it is, in part, a reason for you to get in touch, or hold on in some small way, and whether it is possible to cut that loss.

if not, i would encourage you to wait until the drama has blown over. this letter would fan it.

[OKrunch]

if your goal is solely to get your terrarium back, dont send such a letter.

and dont expect to achieve it through her ex, the guy you think is a neanderthal 

i would encourage you not to expect to recover the terrarium at all. consider whether it is, in part, a reason for you to get in touch, or hold on in some small way, and whether it is possible to cut that loss.

if not, i would encourage you to wait until the drama has blown over. this letter would fan it.

I think its 80% i want my item back, and 20% to get my last word in with this vulgar ape.
So, even if it is 1% "self serving" i think, you are right, and It would only serve to cause more BS.

the sleeping dog shall lay.

[Pook075]

Typed out a message to The Guy, after Pooks advice. Havent sent it yet.

"I wanted to reach out and clear the air,
You seem to be under the impression that I've been trying to get in touch or continue contact. I haven't since August, and have zero desire to do so now.

Let me make this abundantly clear, I do not want what you have, and I wouldn't want what you have even if I was single. That chapter is far past over dude.

The letter I sent in November was only an attempt to get my terrarium back, and in so far as whatever mail showed up a few weeks ago I have no idea what that is.
Perhaps you and I could work together facilitate the return of my terrarium jug.
I don't understand why you were so hostile and vulgar with me when all I was trying to do was get one of my belongings back. I don't know you, I don't want to fight with you and I don't want to have beef with you, but I don't think it's correct or fair for you to spit venom at me like that, when you don't know me or my side of the story.

I no longer work in ******, so let me know if there's any way you can think of to return my terrarium.
Thanks."


Any thoughts on revision before I send it?

I wouldn't send the letter either- it's too passive aggressive and stoke the flame.

I mentioned meeting in person to de-escalate if you felt the situation was volatile, plus you mentioned that the package was probably something medical for your kid (IE, worth making contact).  I wouldn't do it if the motivations were outside of that though.

[OKrunch]

I wouldn't send the letter either- it's too passive aggressive and stoke the flame.

I mentioned meeting in person to de-escalate if you felt the situation was volatile, plus you mentioned that the package was probably something medical for your kid (IE, worth making contact).  I wouldn't do it if the motivations were outside of that though.

I never said it was medical?

[Pook075]

I never said it was medical?

I'll go back and read- I could have sworn you said something about taking your kid to a doctor and maybe they sent the package to the address on file.  Sorry if I goofed that up.

[Pook075]

I never said it was medical?

Aah, it was at-home COVID tests.  So it's medical but nothing urgent.  My bad.

[OKrunch]

Ahhh yes.

The Dr. had those sent over, and had my old address on file.

I think a lot of emotions got roiled up with the loss of my job sunday night.
It immediatley made me feel small and "less than"

I lost a job just prior to the first breakup with EX, and my best friend said he thought her getting a new job prior to our 2nd breakup "Skewed my value in her eyes"
So, think the loss of my recent job has givien me almost a sort of Pavlov response to immediatley feel worthless.

Its dredging up a lot of raw feelings.

[OKrunch]

Interviews have gone well so far, more job hunting to go. I believe I'll get some offers next week in fact.

Had to file a B.o.L complain vs ex employer because he isn't giving me my last pay.
So, that's annoying.

Otherwise, great day today. The weather here was stellar. I helped the Grandparents (in their 80's) do some yard work.

Had a very big "spidey sense" / gut feeling reaction yesterday out of the blue, not sure what that was all about.

Lastly, I realized today it's getting harder to "see" her face in my mind. When I do have random memories or intrusive thoughts, the image of her memory in my head is getting foggy, if that makes sense.
I have mixed feelings about this.
Just an odd thing I happened to notice today.

I will say that the intrusive thoughts have definitley decreased since getting S-canned from work.
Not sure if its because my mind is occupied looking for solutions, or if there was some link in my subconscious connecting her and that job.
Anyway, it's been a heck of a crazy week in Krunch-Land, but honestly I feel good.

[SaltyDawg]

Interviews have gone well so far, more job hunting to go. I believe I'll get some offers next week in fact.

Had to file a B.o.L complain vs ex employer because he isn't giving me my last pay.
So, that's annoying.

Otherwise, great day today. The weather here was stellar. I helped the Grandparents (in their 80's) do some yard work.

Had a very big "spidey sense" / gut feeling reaction yesterday out of the blue, not sure what that was all about.

Lastly, I realized today it's getting harder to "see" her face in my mind. When I do have random memories or intrusive thoughts, the image of her memory in my head is getting foggy, if that makes sense.
I have mixed feelings about this.
Just an odd thing I happened to notice today.

I will say that the intrusive thoughts have definitley decreased since getting S-canned from work.
Not sure if its because my mind is occupied looking for solutions, or if there was some link in my subconscious connecting her and that job.
Anyway, it's been a heck of a crazy week in Krunch-Land, but honestly I feel good.

Krunch,

   It sounds like you are recovering nicely.  Keep up the good work.  I am cheering you on your road to recovery.

   Continue to take care with self-care.

SD

[OKrunch]

Wish it felt that way, thanks SD

[Pook075]

Anyway, it's been a heck of a crazy week in Krunch-Land, but honestly I feel good.

You'll land on your feet soon enough...I am in a similar situation and it's definitely not time to panic.  Just keep on keeping on and everything will work out as intended.

[OKrunch]

You'll land on your feet soon enough...I am in a similar situation and it's definitely not time to panic.  Just keep on keeping on and everything will work out as intended.

I definitley agree, I'm not even really upset about having been fired, I'll get a new job.

Honestly the worst things right now are  how lonely and bored I have been.
Both of these I think, will abate when the season turns.
I'm just afraid of what will happen to my mental state if things continue to be sucky and lonely through this coming summer.
That might be too much.
That said, I have some good prospects on the horizon.

Lots of memories and muddled feelings rolling around today, which I could do with less of.

[SaltyDawg]

Wish it felt that way, thanks SD

Krunch,

   I know it doesn't 'feel' that way; however, based on what you have described and shared with the board, I can definitely see a lot of recovery in you.  I feel that you catastrophize your situation, and make it feel a lot worse than it actually is - this is only natural - perhaps reach out to your therapist to discuss this.  I felt compelled to let you know you are doing much better than you think and feel you are, as I too beat myself up on these kinds of things.

   I see that you are having a harder time ruminating on your ex - this is a good thing as this shows you are moving on from her.

   I see that you are doing the right things about your job you were just let go on, with filing to get the pay you are owed, and your outlook on finding a new job.  You are also able to process the link between your ex and the job you were just let go from as well, putting further distance there - this too is a good thing.

   In any event, please take care of yourself with self-care.

SD

[OKrunch]

Krunch,

   I know it doesn't 'feel' that way; however, based on what you have described and shared with the board, I can definitely see a lot of recovery in you.  I feel that you catastrophize your situation, and make it feel a lot worse than it actually is - this is only natural - perhaps reach out to your therapist to discuss this.  I felt compelled to let you know you are doing much better than you think and feel you are, as I too beat myself up on these kinds of things.

   I see that you are having a harder time ruminating on your ex - this is a good thing as this shows you are moving on from her.

   I see that you are doing the right things about your job you were just let go on, with filing to get the pay you are owed, and your outlook on finding a new job.  You are also able to process the link between your ex and the job you were just let go from as well, putting further distance there - this too is a good thing.

   In any event, please take care of yourself with self-care.

SD

I think the biggest thing that I have noticed I struggle with in the long term is feeling "Less Than".
The repeated rejection after recycle, coupled with the triangulations over the years, and how much I, as a hopeless romantic type, put stock in the plans she and I had made for the future.
I think that her ability to repeatedly and so easily leave those dreams and plans behind, not to mention our "love" just makes me feel worth less (not worthless).
I can blame jealousy, bitterness, and pain on a lot of the feelings, but at the end of the day its that Less Than that is at the core of all of those. My initial response is to blame myself, it requires dedicated thought and effort to see the situation for what it actually was, rather than how my mind views it through the lense of a trauma bond.

Even though it doesn't always immediatley cure the painful memories, I often remind myself that although i still believe it to be a subcncious behavior pattern, she manufactured the feelings of loss, jealousy and me feeling "Less than".
It was done to break me down, and justify her narrative. As always, a defense mechanism.
I remind myself that the person who manufactured these feelings and scenarios, is herself quite hurt, lost and damaged.
I also remind myself despite what my mind will often tell me, or what is publicaly displayed, that she is not any different, and someone else is now dealing with these same subconcious behaviors.

Lonliness has been a real struggle for me these past few months, and its obviously a hell of a lot easier to miss something you had, than it is to envision something that has yet come to pass.

I thought, after a terribly painful (despite, in hindsight being far easier and strightforward) divorce, that I had finally found the person who really loved ME FOR ME. I know my marraige was pretty superficial, but it mattered a lot at the time.
Then, I met her. I thought my divorce had been the training I needed to make this one work, I gave it my all.
I really really thought I was finally home, I finally found my true person, and I loved her with a power I had not known I posessed. Only to have it turn into a far more manipulative, toxic, insidious relationship that made the damage done in my divorce look like a mere scrapped knee.

I often get frustrated with myself for my slow timeline of healing.
It's hard to not get mad at myself when I think of the fact that we had our SECOND breakup, 16 months ago, and yet Here I still am, journaling and healing from it.
Then I think, that if it's taken me this long to heal, this long to dissect and digest it all, that just tells me how devoted, dedicated, faithful and genuine the love I had for this woman was.
That was MINE, and no amount of inflicted pain, or lingering wound can take that away from me.
My capacity for love is so huge, and I know I am a good man, a smart man, A good father, and a loyal partner.

I may have lost the house, the dogs, the stepdaughter, the woman I thought I knew and trusted, and she may feel no regret for the loss of any of those things.
So despite the one FEELING the loss (still, i know *rolls eyes*), I know in the end she is the one who lost out.

I discovered the person I thought I knew and loved was not what I thought, and my dedication and vulnerability allowed this to cut me deeper than I could have ever imagined.

She learned nothing, and lost much, despite not knowing it.

[OKrunch]

I feel that you catastrophize your situation, and make it feel a lot worse than it actually is - this is only natural - perhaps reach out to your therapist to discuss this. 

I have discussed this with her, I am still dissecting the reasons why the loss of a relationship is such a catstrophic blow to me.
Or at least certain relationships.

I know I place far too much value on my relationship status, and I have an unhealthy "desired to be loved and wanted".
When I have it in my life, it makes me feel like a billion dollars. It is why Love Bombing is so very effective on me.
I knew what Love Bombing was going into my relationship with her, but it still totally got me anyway.

I had a pretty ideal childhood, and still have a good relationship with my parents. So I am not sure where this stems from, it has been the nagging unfound crux of my healing.

[OKrunch]

And yet I still wake almost every day, wondering "Will this be the day she shows back up?" "Could I handle it if she did?"

Ive mentioned this before, but its like she so deeply engrained the idea that she would always come back so hard into my mind that each day it doesn't happen, it's like a thread is pulled tighter, and one day itll snap.

I have no reason to believe that she will reach out ever again, for any reason, but yet my mind still plans and prepares for it daily.

The Gut Feelings don't help.

This never ending process makes me feel crazy.

[OKrunch]

The text interaction i had with her BF is spending too much time in my headspace.
It has caused me to really think a lot about triangulation vs. object impermenance.

If we are "out of sight out of mind" when painted black, why then are we also smeared / used as the villain narrative in the triangulation of a new partner?

The amount of personal attacks he had in his texts obviously indicated that I was or at least had been a pretty detailed topic of conversation between the two of them, and he, despite never meeting me, had a totally venemous view of me (not that I care, merely an observation).

So if we become this dusty box stored in the back of their mind, and we are out of sight out of mind like that, more so when they are bathing in limerence, How then do we even become a topic of conversation to be smeared in the first place.

If the "placing of the box in the closet" is to aliveate feelings like shame and anger, why whould a BPD, pull the box out of the closet, get mad at its contents again, just to tell a new person how awful the contents of said box is?

Worth mentioning she definitley did this with me in the beggining of our relationship, and always had a burning hatred of my ex wife.

Wondering what you all had for experiences in this regard.
I find myself trying to get a better understanding of BPD in general as of late, as opposed to her specific flavor of it.

[Pook075]

If we are "out of sight out of mind" when painted black, why then are we also smeared / used as the villain narrative in the triangulation of a new partner?

Think about it for a moment- she had no reason to mention you at all to that guy.  But she did.  Why?  I know the answer but you need to realize this for yourself to really heal and move on from this.

Let me ask a different way, and this may bring things full circle.  When you first got together with her, what did she tell you about her ex?  Or her daughter's dad?  Think through this- how much did you ask about versus how much did she freely volunteer? 

And looking back, do you now think everything she said to you about the ex was 100% true and objective?

There's a pattern here brother, and you laid this out almost a year ago in your original thread.  I remember it clearly because I read 20+ pages at once catching up with your journey. 

Why is she bad-mouthing you...just like she badmouthed her ex when you started dating her?

Really think this through because you need to find this answer on your own.

[SinisterComplex]

The text interaction i had with her BF is spending too much time in my headspace.
It has caused me to really think a lot about triangulation vs. object impermenance.

If we are "out of sight out of mind" when painted black, why then are we also smeared / used as the villain narrative in the triangulation of a new partner?

The amount of personal attacks he had in his texts obviously indicated that I was or at least had been a pretty detailed topic of conversation between the two of them, and he, despite never meeting me, had a totally venemous view of me (not that I care, merely an observation).

So if we become this dusty box stored in the back of their mind, and we are out of sight out of mind like that, more so when they are bathing in limerence, How then do we even become a topic of conversation to be smeared in the first place.

If the "placing of the box in the closet" is to aliveate feelings like shame and anger, why whould a BPD, pull the box out of the closet, get mad at its contents again, just to tell a new person how awful the contents of said box is?

Worth mentioning she definitley did this with me in the beggining of our relationship, and always had a burning hatred of my ex wife.

Wondering what you all had for experiences in this regard.
I find myself trying to get a better understanding of BPD in general as of late, as opposed to her specific flavor of it.

"I find myself trying to get a better understanding of BPD in general as of late, as opposed to her specific flavor of it." - This specific thought I think is a more healthy perspective to have and take away. I believe if you follow that mind set it will help you heal and truly have a sense of peace in time.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[once removed]

It has caused me to really think a lot about triangulation vs. object impermenance.
...
I find myself trying to get a better understanding of BPD in general as of late, as opposed to her specific flavor of it.

  be careful with psychology terms if you want to understand whats happening here. they can make things more confusing. this doesnt appear to be mental illness at play, but good old fashioned drama.  

The amount of personal attacks he had in his texts obviously indicated that I was or at least had been a pretty detailed topic of conversation between the two of them, and he, despite never meeting me, had a totally venemous view of me (not that I care, merely an observation).

you have several data points that might explain this.

remember that you were the guy approaching her for a while. he saw interactions/texts between the two of you that took place right before the two of them became an item.

you know he was jealous about it. a reasonable person might be. he might also be a jealous guy. he is toward you, we dont know if he is in general. but it probably didnt look good to him.

put yourself in her shoes in that position. what do you do? you might explain it away. you might downplay the person youd been talking to, to calm them down and reassure them. you certainly wouldnt respond by singing their praises.

well, in his mind, that lets her off the hook, but to him, youre still a guy "chasing after his girl".

it could be more than that, of course. the two of you had just had a bad ending. she may, like lots of people unfortunately do, vent about it to him, just like you are doing about her to us here in this thread.

its also possible that she likes his jealousy. it might make her feel reassured or safe in the relationship. as difficult as i found my exs jealousy, i found it comforting, too.

So if we become this dusty box stored in the back of their mind

if object permanence were relevant to this, ask yourself how she remembered that you exist when you were physically apart.

The text interaction i had with her BF is spending too much time in my headspace.

is the connection, on some level, preferable to none?

[OKrunch]

Oh Pook, triangulation 101, I'm not confused as to the triangulation behavior, just the counter indication between triangulation and object impermanence confuses me.

I know that she bad mouths the previous guy to the current for a few reasons.
It establishes her victim narrative, creates an "enemy" for her and whomever to be unified against, and gives the guy someone to worry about and hate. All in all a manipulation multi-tool.

Yes, she did it with her daughters dad when we first got together, and she did the same with my ex wife. Again with the first replacement when we got back together.
One of the last times we had a decent conversation back in Sept, she asked about my ex wife by saying, "So, how's the c**t? She still being an idiot per usual?"
The triangulation is plain as day.

[OKrunch]

be careful with psychology terms if you want to understand whats happening here. they can make things more confusing. this doesnt appear to be mental illness at play, but good old fashioned drama.  

Drama born of a need for drama, which to my mind, is disordered behavior, born of mental illness.

its also possible that she likes his jealousy. it might make her feel reassured or safe in the relationship. as difficult as i found my exs jealousy, i found it comforting, too.
Anyone "Liking" their partners jealousy is, quite "ill" behavior, IMO.

if object permanence were relevant to this, ask yourself how she remembered that you exist when you were physically apart.

The last time she asked to come over and hang out (Mid July) she had told me she had just left what was our Go-to restraunt, after having what was our go to meal. Classic physical reminders of things pushed to the back of mind.

is the connection, on some level, preferable to none?

Im going to give that a fresh and firm HELL NO.
I don't want any contact with her, let alone her trained dog of a BF.

[Pook075]

It establishes her victim narrative, creates an "enemy" for her and whomever to be unified against, and gives the guy someone to worry about and hate. All in all a manipulation multi-tool.

That's exactly right- it's not about you at all.  It's about her narrative to remain in a victim mentality to hook the new guy even deeper.

Think about it this way- if she woke up tomorrow and forgot that you even existed, do you think she'd stop being a victim?  Or would she just pick another ex boyfriend to fill her new narrative with?

This is not a "you thing" my friend, it's a BPD thing.

[once removed]

I find myself trying to get a better understanding of BPD in general as of late
...
Drama born of a need for drama, which to my mind, is disordered behavior, born of mental illness.

if you want to better understand bpd, mental illness, yourself, other people (all good goals in recovery), or your current circumstances, then its important to understand that drama, insecurity, immaturity; these things can make for a very difficult, and hurtful person, but they dont rise to the level of mental illness, and looking at it through that lens will tend to unnecessarily complicate things.

Complicating Factors  When we encounter high conflict or destructive relationship behaviors it is important for us to know that the problems can be caused by a broad range of things that look a lot a like:

    immaturity,
    short term mental illness (e.g., depression),
    substance induced illness (e.g., alcoholism),
    a mood disorder (e.g., bipolar),
    an anxiety disorder (e.g., PTSD),
    a personality disorder (e.g., BPD, NPD, 8 others),
    a neurodevelopmental disorder (e.g., ADHD, Aspergers), or
    any combination of the above (i.e., co-morbidity).

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder

you dont need to pathologize this to understand it. you just have to try to set aside your feelings for a moment.

this vulgar ape

If there's one thing I hate, it's a vulgar, stupid, toxic masculinity machismo jerk, and he is that in spades.

this insecure, angry, offensive prick

I can't believe how completely childish the string of text I just got was, it reeked of insecurity, anger and triangulation.

I am laughing my butt off.

 I am from Northeast US, and my Ex-Step-Father-In-Law was a bigfoot hunter. The guy was and is a walking joke.

She doesn't deserve this dedication, she doesn't deserve my love, or any rentspace in my head.

I wish I had never met her.

The woman I love vs the monster who killed her, its almost impossible to realize this is the same person.

I think part of the temptation IS drama, which I ultimately don't want.

is there any difference between what you are doing, with us, and what (we assume) she is doing with the new guy? does any of it sound like mental illness, or two people wounded from a dysfunctional relationship, that are still grappling with their wounds?

Anyone "Liking" their partners jealousy is, quite "ill" behavior, IMO.

i didnt say she was getting her jollies from it  

if there is something attractive or safe about being idealized, then can you see how, for an insecure or jealous person, a relationship with someone who is possessive, or insecure, might feel safe?

that sort of thing is everywhere. i didnt "like" my exes jealousy. it was exhausting. it was intrusive! god i wished it would have gone away. but it was comforting, on some level. i thought she needed me more than i needed her. for a lot of my relationship history, it felt the opposite. to feel like i had the power for once was like a false sense of security. and it kicked my ass when that facade shattered. the lesson i took away, and so many people do, could have been to find someone even "safer". the thing is, its not like i was consciously aware of all this at the time, and there but for the grace of god and the support i received, i started to. seeking relationships based on our own neediness is a very easy trap to fall into. shes still stuck in that trap. you both are.

my point here is that if you look at the context, set aside the loaded feelings, it makes sense. you dont need to pathologize it in order to understand it, or to navigate it. youre not a "box stored in her mind". youre an ex boyfriend from a dysfunctional relationship shes still wounded from, and shes an ex girlfriend from a dysfunctional relationship youre still wounded from. its complicated enough already  

[OKrunch]

Thank you to all 3 of you, these are all solid responses and I want to take some time to re-read and really digest them.

[OKrunch]

Once,

While you make some good points about some possible cause and effect situations here, and they are quite valid, It also sems like you are trying to downplay or even call into question her mental illness, which is also a major contributing factor here.
She is diagnosed, and this isnt "Drama", sure it CAUSES drama, but the drama is born of inability to control words, emotions and other behaviors that are CAUSED by the fact that she is disordered.

It kind of felt like you were trying to minimize things, and that is incorrect and inconsiderate.

[once removed]

I find myself trying to get a better understanding of BPD
...
It kind of felt like you were trying to minimize things

im trying to simplify things. i know it feels anything but simple when youre in it.

a mentally ill persons actions and thoughts are not all mental illness. bpd helps us look at personality traits. dont let that cause you to lose perspective of the three competing human natures at play. bpd is one (significant) part of all of that, but its only part.

She is diagnosed, and this isnt "Drama", sure it CAUSES drama, but the drama is born of inability to control words, emotions and other behaviors that are CAUSED by the fact that she is disordered.

drama, whether it involves a mentally ill person or not, requires more than one person to perpetuate. thats why using psychology in a way that positions ourselves as good guys, and the people we are in conflict with as monsters (validate ourselves) only serves to obscure the real issues and makes it far harder to navigate, or understand whats happening. remember, we (us, but also the people we are in conflict with) see and experience these things through the hurt (or anger, or annoyance, or whatever) we feel.

"drama", by the way, is not a word used to disparage you or minimize what youre experiencing eg "oh thats so dramatic", but as a broad term for more or less every day conflict. stuff youre likely to encounter again.

I have attachment issues, and I am addicted to validation from others.

youre in good company. this is a statement that is almost universally true (one, the other, or both, to lesser or greater degrees) for those that are recovering from a relationship with someone with bpd.

i can to this day recall, at a visceral level, how it felt to learn about bpd (never mind discovering that there was an entire support group out there!). there was immeasurable value in learning that hey, this is a thing, there are people out there that have been affected by it, and i may be a basket case, but im not going crazy. i felt validated in that. and i was. it explained a lot of things that were confusing, or painful for me; like what emotional dysregulation can look like, and the destruction it can cause in the process. how a person can  see and treat me in polar opposites, the greatest guy in the world, and the scum of the earth. all good takeaways. helpful.

i also felt validated when people told me that i dodged a bullet. when they told me that there was nothing i could have done to prevent this from happening. when they told me that i was better off, and she was the one that lost out. when they told me shed come crawling back. when i had attention from other women. when i realized she was checking my social media. when they would make fun of the guy she jumped in a relationship with. when they (and i) called him "my inferior clone". when i read websites that told me that she would only get worse and this will happen in all of her relationships. all things that made me feel a lot better.

the funny thing about that is that i needed more and more of it to stave off that pain, and no matter how much i got, it never seemed to be enough to make it true enough for me to believe it, because after about a year of it, i wasnt healed; i was still on my crutches. sure, i wasnt in anywhere near the pain i was that i arrived. but a look back at my posts from then, compared to when i got here, doesnt paint any noticeably different a picture. i was very far from healing from my wounds.

we all bring our ways of coping with these breakups. for the most part, theyre old ways, that didnt serve us during the relationship, and arent going to serve us anymore. ive had the privilege of witnessing thousands of recovery processes here during and since mine. overwhelmingly, the ones that recover, and thrive, learn, in the process, to let go of those coping mechanisms and grow to replace them.

[how do we calm our egos, guys?)

validation calms the ego, but it can also make it weaker, less resilient, and dependent upon it.

replace the coping mechanisms. kick away the crutches.

[Pook075]

ive had the privilege of witnessing thousands of recovery processes here during and since mine. overwhelmingly, the ones that recover, and thrive, learn, in the process, to let go of those coping mechanisms and grow to replace them.

That's the thing though- if you're looking for ways to cope, you're not looking for ways to solve the problem.

For instance, if your car doesn't start...you can get a ride to work, or call in sick, or rent a car, grab an Uber, etc.  There's many ways to get past the problem.  Yet the next day, the problem is still there...and will continue to be there...until you fix what's actually broken.

In this example, maybe it seems like the car is the problem.  Because duh, it is actually broken.  But it's not the car's fault, only you can choose to fix the car or trade it in or take a more permanent action.  The "fault" is 100% yours no matter how you look at it.

While my wife does have BPD (aka, the problem), that does not make how I live my life today her fault.  It's mine and mine alone to move past the pain and pick myself up.  Just like in the car example, I have the power to "get by" (Uber rides, asking friends for a ride, etc) or actually "heal and move on" (get a new car...or realize I don't need a car at all).

In other words, coping mechanisms don't fix anything...they just delay progress and often bring traumas of their own. 

Don't cope other than in the short-term while coming up with a game-plan. It's a complete waste of time and energy.  Instead, identify the problem and actually fix it.

[SinisterComplex]

Locked thread due to reaching post limit. Splitting off into a new thread which you can find here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=357803.0