Coteau,
I responded on your other post in more detail, I am only going to directly respond to a few of your comments here...
My questions/comments are in regards to parenting with a uBPDw. Is there much information out there to help with this complex piece of being married to someone with BPD? Yes there is, I Randi Kreger has a series called "Stop Walking on Eggshells", she has a book specific to parenting; however, I recommend reading the other two books I suggested before you get into this one.
My wife doesn't seem to understand (probably the BPD) that our daughter's bad days are often an indicator of my wife's bad day. On these days she thinks our daughter can do nothing right and I just want to get the kiddo out of the house. When your wife is dysregulated, this is probably the number #1 thing you can do, remove your daughter from your wife's presence (tell your wife you are giving her a break and you will take care of the kiddo). Frame it in a way, so your wife thinks you are taking care of her, by removing the your daughter (who might appear as triggering/troublesome to your wife). Of course you will need to use calming/soothing strategies with your daughter once she is out of her immediate vicinity
I took my daughter to age appropriate play groups at the library, and public park where she could interact with her peers, and learn to get along. I also enrolled her in age-appropriate sports with the local park and rec. If it is late at night, even though many consider this bad parenting, put her in front of a screen to distract her of the toxic nature of the relationship - you are picking the lesser of two evils. When my daughter was young, I vetted everything I put on her tablet, had story book fables that read to her with read along words, so my daughter was well ahead of her peer group, and still is - you can only do the best you can do to run interception on your wife's bad behaviors. My D read Homer's Odyssey between the 1st and 2nd grades (a book intended for high-schoolers), with full comprehension. Now she is in early college, and will graduate highschool with a AA in Biology in addition to her HS diploma.
Probably the most complex component of this is in trying to remain a unified front in the eyes of our daughter. It is often frustrating to have to support some of my wife's behaviors when I am fully aware that things could have and should have been handled differently from the get go. early childhood development is what I do for a living so I understand the importance of being concrete and consistent. I agree with you fully. Validate what you can validate what your wife does - take care not to validate the invalid as that is counter-productive, validate her feelings but avoid the facts if they are contradictory to reality. However, if you disagree, perhaps frame a suggestive question to your wife for an alternative outcome, I just recently gave a specific example to another parent on my post at that would have validated both the wife and the child.
You are in a special needs relationship with your wife. If she is making bad decisions, you need to model good behaviors to both your wife and daughter.
Here is a post of a specific example I did with another user, I put in bold, the methods that I have used with my children that I have found successful, even before I knew about BPD. Being the emotional leader is key when coparenting with a pwBPD. Another key component is to get them out of the home with age-appropriate social activities so they are exposed to better behavior than the dynamic between you and your wife at home.
Just click on the green link just above the post if you want to read the full thread...
SD, you touched on an important point from my perspective. I try not to “bring the children into it” whenever we are having an argument or whatever. It seriously sparks my wife’s rage if I say something like, “I would like to set a good example of behaviour for the children and I don’t like to see them upset…” She will screech “you always have to bring the children into it!!! This is about US NOT THEM!! Don’t use them against me!!!” For this reason I try to avoid mentioning them in arguments, but you have made me consider whether I should start doing this more so that she gets used to it. I really don’t want to introduce too much crazy making changes just before Christmas, though I know there’s never a good time.
I hear you, and I sense your extreme frustration about this. Personally, if the children were in the car with me, and it needs to be 'hands free' (where I live), the children will hear it - I would let me wife know she was on the speaker phone and the children were listening in. If the children are in earshot, I will remind my wife of that, and she will tone down her rhetoric.
Relevant side story: There was a major incident a few days ago where my FIL exhibited major BPD-like behaviors for the first time ever in front of me and within earshot of both of our children, which severely and negatively affected our daughter - and I have known him for 23 years - life is full of unexpected surprises and revelations where he accused his wife of cheating on him after 65+ years of marriage. My wife and I were devastated to learn that our daughter overheard this interaction between my wife and her father and daughter was even more devastated. Fortunately my wife is now on the same page as me with regards to these 'shameful' behaviors, even though she was oblivious to them a year ago. Amazingly enough, my wife is aware of handling interactions with other BPD's yet she cannot recognize it in herself, the therapy is working, to an extent.
If your wife wants it to be about "US" and not "THEM", then you, and her ought to make sure that all three of your children are out of earshot otherwise it WILL be about 'them' too, whether or not it is intentional as the story I just shared can so aptly expressed.
Another problem not related to the calls is when I stand up for the children she gets mad so I’m ashamed to say I usually choose to keep the peace between us which also makes for a calmer environment for the kids. An example was the other morning D2 was refusing to come downstairs and D4 said, “bye D2” and w reprimands D4 for being unkind, when it was my perception that she was just (innocently) thinking “D2 isn’t coming down now so I’m saying goodbye.” Rather than spark an early morning rage and lots of shouting I just let it go and made sure to give d4 a big cuddle when we got downstairs. She’s not yet at the language stage of being able to discuss such incidents but I know I’ll have to be very careful what I say when we come to the point of discussing her mother’s crazy behaviour and unfair treatment of us all.
This is something that you will have to come to terms with sooner rather than later. First work on setting and enforcing the boundary with her bad behavior towards you. I find making boundaries takes at least a week with my wife, if not longer. Once your wife has become accustomed to this boundary, then you can make another, and not allowing similar behaviors with your children is another good boundary to have, even though this one is much more difficult to implement. So, a good time to start with the boundary would be after the holidays. Keep using strategies that work. Recognize the bad ones, and then slowly 'ween' yourself off those strategies and replace them with healthy ones. This is a process, just make sure you are making some kind of progress, even baby steps/crawl in a good direction. It is easy to become complacent and let it stall or even reverse. Right now I am going to be addressing a stall in the progress with my wife in couple's therapy in a few hours time.
What are your thoughts on bringing up the children during arguments, as in, “I don’t want them to be around us having an argument because it upsets them” and also standing up for them? There are occasions when I do choose to stand up for them. Like recently we were in a shopping centre and we wanted D2 in the buggy as it was so busy so she had a tantrum and refused so w said, “we’re all going home then..” I suggested that D2 was very young and I felt it appropriate to give her a chance to hold one of our hands instead of buggy, to give her another chance. W got very angry at me “How dare you interfere? This is between me and D2!!! You haven’t got the right to step in, your opinion and suggestions aren’t welcome!!” I don’t like the children to see this, but she did end up doing what I suggested but would have denied it was at my suggestion. So even on that occasion I asked myself whether I was right to step in or if it just made the situation more upsetting for everyone.
I am going to be very blunt, do you want your children to have the same relationship dynamics that you and your wife have when they grow up to be young adults? The nursery school cliche of "monkey see, monkey do" is so relevant here.
Children learn from their parents, and if the parents have a toxic relationship, they will see having a toxic relationship as an adult as being acceptable, when in fact it is not.
With regards to the D2 and the buggy, please don't take this as criticism, I agree with your wife that she should have been in the buggy for your D2's safety in a crowded shopping center. If your D2 was D3.5 or more, then a different age appropriate response of the parents would in order. However, for a 2 yo "I agree with, birth-mum, that you should be in the buggy." (this will validate your wife, show unified parenting, which will reduce the amount of manipulative tantrums the children may have to divide you). Continue with "If you don't get in the buggy, we are going to sit here in the car (in the carpark) for a few minutes and if you still don't want to get in the buggy, we will then go home" which would further validate your wife, with your modification to allow for your 2 yo to change her mind to allow for less impulsivity and less black/white thinking, and would be modelling good behaviors to both your wife and child. I found when my children were like that, sitting in a car, engine off, radio off, screens off, about 5 to 10 minutes would pass, child would change their mind when they realize you won't change your mind, and you would have followed through with the consequence of the boundary your wife set, they would become more compliant with your requests.
I am going to reflect on that you actually appeased a 2 year old with your behavior (hand holding), you got your way, your 2 year old got her way, and your wife did NOT get her way if 2 yo being safe in the buggy, and your wife likely felt criticized and some level of contempt because of this.
I choose my battles carefully, and if an opportunity arises where I can validate my wife, I will, this is one where I would have validated my wife's feelings, as I am a firm believer in keeping a child who is too young to know any better at 2 yo safe from being trampled on by christmas crowds. If your child was a 4 year old, that would be a different story, as 4 yo would be okay walking alongside in a busy shopping center. There are so many variables in raising children, it is difficult to know what is the correct direction - and this can be very difficult.
Let's say this incident was with the 4yo instead. I would have handled it a bit differently... I would have said "birth-mum, the buggy seat is a bit small, and it might be uncomfortable for D4. What do you think if we allowed D4, to hold our hands and walk with us instead?" That way you are not overriding your wife's decision, you are making it a healthy discussion, and not a bitter argument. You are also allowing room for your wife to come up with the alternative on her own by making asking your wife's opinion on the matter, showing you value your wife's opinion, so she remains in control, but is allowed to change her mind without shame, even though you have reframed your desire as a suggestive question so your wife doesn't become defensive with a demand from you to have D4 walk while holding hands. With this question it also signals to D4, that she is heard and validated; however, the ultimate authority, as it should be for a 4 yo reverts to the parents. However is D4 is a D17, as in my case, that would not be age appropriate either where a lot more autonomy would be in order.
I often have no clue what my wife expects of my daughter so I am certain my daughter does not either. What are the keys to parenting with a uBPDw?This is not an inclusive list I have come up with, but it is a good start.
You must be the leader, either covertly, or overtly if your wife will allow it.
Make sure your children are out of the home as much as you can so they can see and learn interactions from healthy relationships with their peers as much as your daughter can tolerate and your wife allows.
Enroll them in low cost activities with your local park and rec / school system to maximize their time outside of the home. If you are religious, additional resources can be found at your place of worship.
Avoid homeschooling at all costs, they will learn from bad leadership as these will become bad habits for life-long issues with mild to extreme mental health conditions
Model good behaviors. Avoid Gottman's 4 horsemen of the apocalypse with your wife
https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/ - you will have to do a form of stonewalling in the form of do not JADE or gray-rocking when your wife is having her episode - only do this while your wife is not regulated.
If your child asks you about certain behaviors that your wife does that is different than other mothers - this can get very sticky - using age appropriate strategies, ask your D how you behave, then how the other mother behaves, and then what her mother behaves and what she has learned in school (yes, they teach basics of abusive behaviors in elementary school) and guide them to their own conclusion without disparaging your wife.
Model self-care, in my personal opinion this one is critical, as it has self-soothing components in it, and how to manage being with a difficult personality. Being mindful 15% of the general population has a diagnosable personality disorder, for BPD 6.2% are women, so there is a strong chance your daughter will encounter many as she gets older.
Have daddy-daughter 'dates' - take her out and do fun age-appropriate stuff, bonus if it is a learning experience too like a trip to the zoo.
Set firm boundaries with your wife and set expectations (you have to do this very slowly or it will explode) - I have written about this in my previous posts, let me know if you want me to expand on this.
Set firm age-appropriate limits and boundaries with your daughter - the younger she is, the easier this will be.
I'm sure there is more, just do what works for your situation which will require a bit of experimentation. Also, don't give up if your wife provides resistance, you need to persevere, and come up with strategies to make this work for you and your daughter.
Have more questions, please ask.
Take care, with self-care.
SD
