Things I pointed out to my ex, that still didn't work

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I'm long out of the relationship now, but still in the ruminating and missing phase.

I was thinking that I really pointed out a lot of things to my ex about her behavior and her treatment of me, always with a gentle voice and with love, never yelling or angry. In fact, I never yelled at her once or even raised my voice to her, I'm proud of that.

But none of it did any good. Every time I tried to bring these things up I was told 'it's the wrong/bad time to bring it up', then it was denied and/or I was blamed for the things. Every single time I brought something up she got very angry, very quickly. Every time.

Then came the attacks and gaslighting about what was said or done, the putdowns and belittling, the mocking and mimicking of my voice...sometimes until 3am. The original issue I brought up was never addressed, no apology was ever given.

I bring this here to help you see that maybe you are trying your best. I certainly was. My therapist was amazed at my patience and emotional intelligence. But, I simply could not understand what was going on. Maybe me sharing these things will help you.

All of the following I told her:

your behavior is confusing to me
you ignore my calls and texts for days or even a week, but you say you love me. it's confusing.
you ignoring my calls and texts is dehumanizing and hurtful
you eviscerated me that weekend
your treatment of me is intermittent reinforcement
you accuse me of and yell at me for things that YOU actually do
I can't take the yelling at me
you have stories in your head about that aren't true, then you get mad at the stories
it seems you need to WIN in a disagreement, and that is not my goal. I just want to feel heard
(her light yelling at me in a public deli) please stop, please stop. _____, please stop (she kept going)
honey, you called for a timeout on our argument, which I happily agreed to since I want you to. know that I keep my word and love you, but you immediately started in on me again (hangs up phone)
you expect me to read your mind, why can't you just ask for what you need?
mind reading expectations are killers of relationships, honey
why do you keep repeating that (gaslighting story about what I did)? we discussed it four times now and I explained to you what actually happened, and you keep changing it back to this
I've never been yelled at before for offering to do something
that's really mean
your pretty controlling and bossy
you're very critical of me, have you ever noticed I'm not critical of you?
honey, honey...please, that's not loving communication
can you please let me finish a sentence?
you completely forgot my birthday, but tore me to shreds for the gift I gave you on your birthday 5 weeks later
you humiliated me in front of your family
you never told me about your appointment and then yelled at me for missing it
you yelled at me and called me a child for missing things on a calendar (which I didn't do) then when we made a calendar you cancelled the first three things last second, and forgot about the third. Then when I asked about you yelled at me.

All said to her in a loving, confused, tone of voice. None of it sank in, and as I said all resulted in denying it, diverting to something else, anger, yelling, accusations, and circular arguments.

I may have gone about this wrong, but I thought I was dealing with an emotionally mature person who could relate....you know, listen, look within, hear me, etc.

So this is hopefully helpful to those of you confused as well. I did do a lot a JADEing, which I didn't learn about until I got here.

[jaded7]

I'm long out of the relationship now, but still in the ruminating and missing phase.

I was thinking that I really pointed out a lot of things to my ex about her behavior and her treatment of me, always with a gentle voice and with love, never yelling or angry. In fact, I never yelled at her once or even raised my voice to her, I'm proud of that.

But none of it did any good. Every time I tried to bring these things up I was told 'it's the wrong/bad time to bring it up', then it was denied and/or I was blamed for the things. Every single time I brought something up she got very angry, very quickly. Every time.

Then came the attacks and gaslighting about what was said or done, the putdowns and belittling, the mocking and mimicking of my voice...sometimes until 3am. The original issue I brought up was never addressed, no apology was ever given.

I bring this here to help you see that maybe you are trying your best. I certainly was. My therapist was amazed at my patience and emotional intelligence. But, I simply could not understand what was going on. Maybe me sharing these things will help you.

All of the following I told her:

your behavior is confusing to me
you ignore my calls and texts for days or even a week, but you say you love me. it's confusing.
you ignoring my calls and texts is dehumanizing and hurtful
you eviscerated me that weekend
your treatment of me is intermittent reinforcement
you accuse me of and yell at me for things that YOU actually do
I can't take the yelling at me
you have stories in your head about that aren't true, then you get mad at the stories
it seems you need to WIN in a disagreement, and that is not my goal. I just want to feel heard
(her light yelling at me in a public deli) please stop, please stop. _____, please stop (she kept going)
honey, you called for a timeout on our argument, which I happily agreed to since I want you to. know that I keep my word and love you, but you immediately started in on me again (hangs up phone)
you expect me to read your mind, why can't you just ask for what you need?
mind reading expectations are killers of relationships, honey
why do you keep repeating that (gaslighting story about what I did)? we discussed it four times now and I explained to you what actually happened, and you keep changing it back to this
I've never been yelled at before for offering to do something
that's really mean
your pretty controlling and bossy
you're very critical of me, have you ever noticed I'm not critical of you?
honey, honey...please, that's not loving communication
can you please let me finish a sentence?
you completely forgot my birthday, but tore me to shreds for the gift I gave you on your birthday 5 weeks later
you humiliated me in front of your family
you never told me about your appointment and then yelled at me for missing it
you yelled at me and called me a child for missing things on a calendar (which I didn't do) then when we made a calendar you cancelled the first three things last second, and forgot about the third. Then when I asked about you yelled at me.

All said to her in a loving, confused, tone of voice. None of it sank in, and as I said all resulted in denying it, diverting to something else, anger, yelling, accusations, and circular arguments.

I may have gone about this wrong, but I thought I was dealing with an emotionally mature person who could relate....you know, listen, look within, hear me, etc.

So this is hopefully helpful to those of you confused as well. I did do a lot a JADEing, which I didn't learn about until I got here.

[kells76]

Hi jaded7,

I can relate to reflecting on past partners and finding times where I'm proud of how I acted. It can mean a lot to look back on a relationship and say "you know, I'm not ashamed of how I acted in that regard -- I respect myself for behaving that way".

Am I tracking with you that when you ruminate/remember/reflect, it tends to be about "the big picture" (i.e. multiple incidents) versus fixating on one thing that happened -- if that makes sense?

Some people ruminate on "The Moment", i.e., "if I could just go back and redo this specific thing I said or did, that would change everything/then I'd be at peace/etc". For you, it sounds different.

What do you think your mind (or subconscious, or psyche, or part of you) wants to work out via the rumination/remembering process?

[jaded7]

Hi jaded7,

I can relate to reflecting on past partners and finding times where I'm proud of how I acted. It can mean a lot to look back on a relationship and say "you know, I'm not ashamed of how I acted in that regard -- I respect myself for behaving that way".

Am I tracking with you that when you ruminate/remember/reflect, it tends to be about "the big picture" (i.e. multiple incidents) versus fixating on one thing that happened -- if that makes sense?

Some people ruminate on "The Moment", i.e., "if I could just go back and redo this specific thing I said or did, that would change everything/then I'd be at peace/etc". For you, it sounds different.

What do you think your mind (or subconscious, or psyche, or part of you) wants to work out via the rumination/remembering process?

Such good questions Kells.

Yes, I do recall these things very often, in a ruminative fashion. I write these things out in my notebook in the mornings, and then I look at them.

There is indeed a part of my subconscious at work here, very likely related to FOO issues around attachment and love. But this is hard to figure out. Plus, my sexual abuse (which she weaponized) made me very, very reluctant to have physical relationships (it was 10 years before I met her, which I was completely fine with). So I trusted her, and that became an area where she was manipulative and MEAN, abusive even as identified by a certified Ph.D. sex therapist. So my unconscious is probably trying to make sense of the shattered attachment and the self-hate that has resulted.

Consciously, I know that I believe if I write this out (plus all the mean abusive things she did...I have lists of those as well) and look at it, it will convince me that I'm not a fault here, or in the second kind of list that she was mean/abusive and did things I should not tolerate. And therefore I'm not a bad person.

Both are in hope that I am relieved of the attachment suffering and rumination. That I can move on.

[thankful person]

Hi Jaded,

Thanks for sharing this, it is all too familiar to me and will be to many others. You must be a saint to have never shouted or responded with anger to your pwbpd’s abusive treatment of you. As you noted, much of your speech comes under the heading JADE, which are mostly things you have to address in a sidestep kind of manner rather than directly, and always choosing your battles regarding what actually needs to be dealt with and what can be let go. I think with a bpd relationship it’s never going to be plain sailing, but can be a smoother ride armed with knowledge and maybe even a little understanding.

One thing that struck a chord with me that I still struggle with was when you said:

“I've never been yelled at before for offering to do something”

It really is like a competition but the non bpd will never win it. The reason I’m my case is because the requests from my dbpdw are so conflicting. One day she will say, “You should know by now, don’t EVER offer to help me or do anything for me!” Another day she will say, “I can’t believe you just sat there watching me struggling and didn’t even offer to help!”

Yesterday she was shouting in the other room about being uncomfortable (or something). She came out to use the bathroom and then started shouting at me: “you not even gonna say anything to me?!?!” When she had calmed down, I texted her as she was in another room with kids sleeping, “I’d like to say the right thing when you’re struggling. But these are the only things I can think of:
Are you ok?
I’m sorry you’re having a hard time.
Can I help?
I know these are the wrong things to say, could you suggest a better supportive response from me?”

You know what she said back? “What was the name of the hotel we stayed at in Lanzarote?”

She has no idea what she wants from me in these moments. But I know from past experience the three things I could think of only cause more screeching.

I honestly  wish you all the best. I hope you can move on from this relationship, find peace and happiness, and (if you want) find someone who treats you with the love and respect you deserve.

[jaded7]

Hi Jaded,

Thanks for sharing this, it is all too familiar to me and will be to many others. You must be a saint to have never shouted or responded with anger to your pwbpd’s abusive treatment of you. As you noted, much of your speech comes under the heading JADE, which are mostly things you have to address in a sidestep kind of manner rather than directly, and always choosing your battles regarding what actually needs to be dealt with and what can be let go. I think with a bpd relationship it’s never going to be plain sailing, but can be a smoother ride armed with knowledge and maybe even a little understanding.

One thing that struck a chord with me that I still struggle with was when you said:

“I've never been yelled at before for offering to do something”

It really is like a competition but the non bpd will never win it. The reason I’m my case is because the requests from my dbpdw are so conflicting. One day she will say, “You should know by now, don’t EVER offer to help me or do anything for me!” Another day she will say, “I can’t believe you just sat there watching me struggling and didn’t even offer to help!”

Yesterday she was shouting in the other room about being uncomfortable (or something). She came out to use the bathroom and then started shouting at me: “you not even gonna say anything to me?!?!” When she had calmed down, I texted her as she was in another room with kids sleeping, “I’d like to say the right thing when you’re struggling. But these are the only things I can think of:
Are you ok?
I’m sorry you’re having a hard time.
Can I help?
I know these are the wrong things to say, could you suggest a better supportive response from me?”

You know what she said back? “What was the name of the hotel we stayed at in Lanzarote?”

She has no idea what she wants from me in these moments. But I know from past experience the three things I could think of only cause more screeching.

I honestly  wish you all the best. I hope you can move on from this relationship, find peace and happiness, and (if you want) find someone who treats you with the love and respect you deserve.

Thanks so much ThankfulPerson. Not trying to self-praise here, but I really never did raise my voice, yell, get super angry at her. As I said, my therapist was really impressed!! But, I do take some pride in that. By the way, I'm 6'3",  extremely fit and very able to take care of myself in dangerous situations, and have.

JADEing was really what I did a lot of. I thought, as all the experts say we do, that surely she isn't understanding this correctly and I'll just explain it to her... then she won't be mad, then she won't think less of me and call me names. We here all know that is not the right approach, but I had no idea.

Just cause I'm sitting here relaxing, I'll tell you what her response was to my I've never been yelled at for offering to do something. Her response....."oh, what do you want, cookies and milk for asking?" This was just after she told me I was "worthless in a grocery store, and it would take me longer to fix what you did than to just do it myself." I had asked for the camping food list I knew she had so I could take care of this. After the whole horrible exchange, she admitted she'd gone to the store 3 days before. None of this was necessary, she could have just told me that and said thank you, I already took care of it. You can do it next time.

Your story is so similar to above....it seems like they want to fight, want to have something to be mad at. And the mind reading expectations. I think they do not know, as you say, what they want.

I really appreciate your kind words about healing. This has been a LONG road, painful road, what with the sexual abuse she weaponized, the verbal abuse, the gaslighting....

Sexual abuse, abusive partner, FOO attachment issues.....ugh. But as we discussed, I can hold my head high. She can never say I was bad to her, but she probably will.

[Collaguazo]

Hi Jaded,

Thanks for sharing. I also tried the same hoping to have a constructive conversation but her reaction was getting upset, gaslighting or shifting the blame.

However when she wanted to talk about something it had to be right now, right there. It didn’t matter if I was at work, driving, etc. Then the rant would begin, usually about the same topics that were already discussed many times.

At the beginning I also did a lot of JADE, then I as I learned more about BPD tried validating her feelings, try to stay calm an look for solutions, etc but nothing seemed to work. At the end I just stayed quiet and blamed me for having poor comunication.

In one of our final conversations before breaking up, I asked her why does she judge other people so hard but when she makes the same mistake it’s not a big deal? I was hoping that maybe she would open up about her thought process (she is undiagnosed as far as I know) but couldn’t give me an answer.

In my opinion, it’s an impossible “battle” to win no matter how hard you try.

[once removed]

I'm long out of the relationship now, but still in the ruminating and missing phase.
...
I did do a lot a JADEing, which I didn't learn about until I got here.

reading this, i dont so much look at JADEing as a "if only you had known" sort of thing. of course, recognizing significant differences for what they are, and not trying to put a square peg in a round hole are relationship skills to learn, but "honey be nice" wasnt what broke up the relationship.

i see a person who remained in a relationship that he felt (and was) chronically invalidated in. i see a person who felt unheard during that relationship, and is struggling because he still does.

people tend to JADE (say it louder, find another way to say it, try harder to get their point across) when they not only dont feel heard, but when they feel unheard (invalidated).

the question, and the lesson, are how they found themselves there, in a chronic situation, and how they coped with it thereafter.  

[Caesar46]

One of the things I learned from my long struggle with a BPD ex is they never listen. So no matter how many times we warn them they dont hear us.

They dont read your long messages either so verbal or written communcation doesnt matter. They do what they do and they always feel obligated to ask for more while giving nothing in return.