Need advise on dealing with situation involving a newborn coming in 2 months

[Anonymous_male]

I am in a situation where my uBPDex decided to go ahead with having a child which is mine, after a r/s of only 5 months. The way it happened was an accident and she had told me should it happen, then she would get an abortion. She did not.

This was a while ago and the baby is coming in 2 months time. Long story short, I have really tried to make the r/s work, involving reading 2 books about BPD etc. but it is not emotionally healthy for me and it is not possible for me to pursue this path any longer.

It has been about 2 weeks now since last contact and NC is definitely necessary I found.

So in 2 months (perhaps earlier) this baby will come, and I am 99% sure it is mine. Still I will ask fo a DNA test as can you ever be sure with people with this disorder? So I need help in regards to seeing the child.

I have decided that I will for sure be in contact with the child as she needs contact with her biological father in order to do well in life. Also since it is my daughter of course. I am 45 yo and was set on not having more children than the 2 older ones I have now (also girls, 15 and almost 18 yo). I wanted to prioritize me now. My uBPDex has an almost 11 yo son at home and a 13 yo daughter living in a special care home as she has Downs syndrome.

I am at a place in my life where I finally want to prioritize me since my kids are almost grown now. So in order to make up the puzzle and wanting to do the right thing also, I want to have time with my child. My thoughts right now, knowing that they could change are maybe once a week or every other week, to spend time with her.

My fear is coming to my uBPDex home. Hopefully I will be fully detached from her. But if I am not, I am afraid of what could happen in terms of this. I already got the advise to bring someone. I feel that I want to see the child alone, at least to start of with. Thinking about an hour or something after work every week or every other week. How will I be able to do this, keeping myself detached from my uBPDex? The child is a newborn and I am going to her home. I do not wish to fall into any traps. And she could very well try to manipulate me, which I feel she has tried before.

I really need different viewpoints on this. What can I do?

[kells76]

Hi Anonymous_male;

An unexpected child is life-changing for sure. It sounds like you've thought through it well -- the first step is paternity test, no matter what she says.

As you wait for the time to do the paternity test, though, I'd recommend putting together parenting time proposals, so that if you get results saying you're the father, you can immediately move forward to "and we can sign this now".

Don't feel like you have to reinvent the wheel on parenting time. Google search "infant parenting plans [your state]" and see what is considered standard. Sometimes short but more frequent contact is considered more beneficial (i.e., 1-2 hours 5 days a week vs 5-10 hours 1day a week). This will change as the child gets older, so research and put together some parenting plans for the progressing age ranges.

Don't assume you'll have to spend time with the baby at Mom's house -- that isn't some law. You've raised two kids already, you know how to do this! It would be perfectly normal for you to take the baby to your place to spend time together. Mom may try a lot of Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to control/manage your parenting time -- you don't have to believe what she tells you.

I'd strongly recommend doing an initial consultation with a couple of lawyers, as well. You aren't required to retain them, but you can still learn a lot just from that first meeting, about what to expect with coparenting legalities in your area.

What do you think?

[Anonymous_male]

Hi Kells,

Thanks for your reply. Yes the DNA test comes first. I am pretty sure it is my baby though.

Good idea with the proposals. I will look into this.

I also looked up in regards to how long for visits on the local authority site. It mentioned a few short visits a week would be good at this early age. So I am thinking maybe once a week for an hour maybe. It would take me an hour to get home though.

As she needs her mother close in this early stage, I assumed it would be in her apartment, so here is my fear. I suppose however if the weather is okay, I could take a short walk with her in the carriage.

I have spoken to lawyers also. So I have looked at my legal options. But I am afraid of the meeting with my ex and coming to her place. Maybe she wants to keep the child in her apartment since she is newborn and need her mother close by. So I think I might have to come to terms with coming there. Also, I fear of my recovery, as it is certain that I have to see her again in some LC way. And at this point I am not ready for this emotionally.

There is an option of a neutral place with officials, but they will try to push to make it work directly. This option is only some last resort thing, if anyone is in danger etc.

[ForeverDad]

Many of us were raised in societies where the presumption is that mothers will always get majority parenting.  Doesn't mean you have to default to society's presumptions.  And if your child's mother has mental health issues then you really ought to seek as much involvement in parenting as possible.

As kells wrote, my county too recommends frequent parenting for non-primary new fathers.  And no, you do not have to limit yourself to mother 'supervising' your visits.  The only need for supervision is if court and the professionals advising it determine there is a real need for you to be supervised.  You're not dangerous so that shouldn't happen.

It's possible that your ex would demand you can't have extended time with the baby.  A typical excuse is that you can't be trusted.  In that case, why did she risk the possibility of a pregnancy?  As if you're okay to make a baby but not to parent one?

If it comes to that, court will set a schedule.  Don't be timid.

She might also insist that you can't have extended time because she wants to nurse the baby.  Millions of mothers express their milk and save it for exchanges, so that claim fails too.

What I'm explaining is that your ex may put obstacles in your way.  Be prepared and please don't be quick to allow yourself to be minimized as a parent.

[Anonymous_male]

I’m sorry guys, but you got it the other way around. I completely understand why. But as I mentioned, I was not interested in raising more children.

Local law here looks well after the father. I don’t see this as an obstacle. Also, she seems very good with her kids luckily. She is not interested in keeping me from the child. I understand that this is the case for many others.

Please understand that I had the children that I was going to have. She did not apparently. And she should not push this responsibility on me. I could just walk away.

I decided after Reading about a childs connection to its biological parentes, that I need to be there for the child in some way, in order for the child to do well in life. I want to do the right thing for the child, so that an innocent child does not suffer too much in this. 

Yes, I am responsible of unprotected sex. Reason was that she was told by her doctor that she could not get pregnant (almost proven). I do not think she lied here, as I heard the doctors. Also she promised me that she would get an abortion, should it be necessary. She wanted to not use a condom. I should still have chosen to protect myself. But I did not. I was carried away at the time (due to lovebombing). I hope I have done a better job of explaining now.

[kells76]

OK, that helps fill out the picture. Let me see if I'm getting it:

In your area, fathers are well protected in terms of spending time with their kids, and being legally involved. So that is not really the issue -- it is culturally and socially accepted and normal. And, your exGF also accepts that; she is not trying to do something different from the social norm. She sees it as a given that you would be involved, and she probably won't fight that.

So, given that you want to be involved -- because you took the lead in research and understand how important it is to kids to have both parents in their lives  -- your question is less about "how can I make her not obstruct me" and more "yes, I'll be spending time with the baby, I'm just worried because I think she'll want it to be at her home".

The core issue is: when you spend time with your baby, does it have to be at your ex's house, or are there other solutions?

Is that more the situation?

[Anonymous_male]

Yes, that is correct. Also I will probably not be involved a lot. But stable and punctual, which the child needs. Mind you this was not a situation I saw myself in. Quite the contrary actually. So I’m trying to make the best of the situation

I don’t think that I can really go that far away from the mother with a newborn child. My main concern is the detachment.

[kells76]

Yes, that is correct. Also I will probably not be involved a lot. But stable and punctual, which the child needs. Mind you this was not a situation I saw myself in. Quite the contrary actually. So I’m trying to make the best of the situation

Got it. I think it still makes sense, then, to Google search "standard parenting time [my region]" (where your region could be your county, state, parish, province, etc, or even city or country, depending on the size of your city or country", and get educated about boilerplate parenting time plans, given that you are OK with not 50/50 time. There may be a very standard plan of "Dad is with baby Monday, Wednesday, and Friday from 5-7pm until baby turns 2. Then, Dad is with the child on XYZ schedule until the child enters school and/or is 6 years old. Then, Dad is with child on ABC schedule until the child turns 18 [or whatever the age of majority is in your area]". Your situation sounds like a good fit for using a very standard "every other weekend plus 1-2 weeknights" schedule.

While generally it's better for a child to have more time with the non-disordered parent and less time with the parent with BPD, every case is different, and not all non-BPD parents can achieve majority time, for many reasons (voluntary or involuntary). What's critical is protection of the time you have -- that it is consistent and stable (not subject to one parent's feelings) and private to you and the child.

Have you been able to talk with a local lawyer/attorney/solicitor about your parenting time question yet? That may give you some relief, especially if the lawyer says "oh yeah, there is no local presumption that Dad has to spend parenting time with an infant at Mom's house. I've done lots of local cases like this, and Dads always get to have private time with the baby."

And given that it sounds like you live ~1 hour away (is that true), then you might bring that up with the L: "Even though the standard infant parenting plan says Dad can spend 1 hour per day 5 days a week with baby, that would be challenging for me with work and driving. Could we propose that I spend 2 hours a day, but 2-3 days a week, instead? Would that be approved by a judge?"

I don’t think that I can really go that far away from the mother with a newborn child. My main concern is the detachment.

I'm assuming you mean detachment from your ex -- you guys are not in a relationship, won't be, and you'd like this to be more "cooperative business acquaintances" than "loving best friends"? That'll take some practice and some skills, but is very do-able.

It could help to imagine your ex as a business partner and your shared baby (again, assuming the paternity tests come back positive) as a business venture. You won't be talking about your personal lives, romance, fond memories, etc, and you won't be trying to spend "off work" time together. You'll be polite, focused, and communicate only about your "business venture" and only for logistics and problem-solving. You might be friendly, but only to the degree that you would be with any coworker.

Is that kind of the detachment you're thinking of?

If so, take a look at our B.I.F.F. Technique for Communications. My H and I have found it really helpful for interacting with his kids' mom. It keeps things respectful, focused, and detached.

Hope that helps -- let me know if that wasn't quite it.

[Anonymous_male]

Yes you are right. I should look more into parenting time. I think I wanted to meet my child first and take it from there. See how things feel. 

I am aware that more non-BPD parent time is preferred. But again, please understand that this was not my choice. I get involved to minimize the damage to the child so to speak. If she was not capable (which she is) adoption would be necessary. I do not have it in me to raise a child by myself full time at this point. Just for clarity.

Yes, sorry for not being clear around detachment. I do mean from my ex. You bring up some very good points here, that I will have to do some thinking about. I am still worried about the unsaid though. In terms of feelings.

I am familiar with BIFF and used it back when we had contact. I do not want contact now. I am using the current time for doing detachment. 2 weeks NC now and I do not wish for LC, as I tried this and it turned out badly for me. I know that this will have to change in the future.

I think I would prefer to be able to just be at her place at this young age of the child. I am thinking that I just have to see how it feels and make plans accordingly right?

[kells76]

Yes you are right. I should look more into parenting time. I think I wanted to meet my child first and take it from there. See how things feel.

At least here in the USA, my general sense is that it's easier to get a plan in place giving you more parenting time at the start, and then modify down in the future if needed, than to assume "I'm positive I'll be good with 1 hour 3x a week for the next 2 years", and find that actually, you would love to be more involved... but face legal hurdles. Food for thought -- consider starting above what you feel you may want.

I am aware that more non-BPD parent time is preferred. But again, please understand that this was not my choice. I get involved to minimize the damage to the child so to speak. If she was not capable (which she is) adoption would be necessary. I do not have it in me to raise a child by myself full time at this point. Just for clarity.

Understood.

Yes, sorry for not being clear around detachment. I do mean from my ex. You bring up some very good points here, that I will have to do some thinking about. I am still worried about the unsaid though. In terms of feelings.

Her feelings, or yours? (Or both?)

I am familiar with BIFF and used it back when we had contact. I do not want contact now. I am using the current time for doing detachment. 2 weeks NC now and I do not wish for LC, as I tried this and it turned out badly for me. I know that this will have to change in the future.

I'm thinking less about "relationship between you and her" contact, and more about pure logistics. You'll have to communicate with her somehow if you share a child, which it sounds like you understand.

Having a really structured channel for contact will be important, then. In the USA, there are common apps that parents use just for coparenting communication and nothing else: stuff like "Our Family Wizard" or "Talking Parents". Take a look at those; they could be really helpful for your situation. That keeps "kid business" in the "kid business app" and not in your personal email, your personal phone, face-to-face, etc.

I think I would prefer to be able to just be at her place at this young age of the child. I am thinking that I just have to see how it feels and make plans accordingly right?

Well, it might be worth thinking about this: you say you want detachment and not to be in contact with her. However, seeing the baby at her place, when you don't have to, may communicate something to her that you actually don't want to communicate.

Does that make sense?

[Anonymous_male]

In my country (DK) it is always possible to alter time spend with child between parents. The father’s role is very recognised here.

I just checked up on local law and remembered why I thought that the visitation time was at her place. Up until 6 months Old the baby can only be visited where the baby lives in safe surroundings near her mother. That is the law here. I think that it is important to see the child early, so that she will get to know me. Being as they reach out a lot in this early age

Yes, I did mean NC has to change due to the situation of course. Sounds interesting in regards to the apps. Thanks.

The feelings, well my feelings primarily. What’s hers is hers. So,  I suppose I can ask that we go to a neutral place, but I definitely need to face that this will be how, if I want to see the baby at this early stage. My ex will support me in this I think, as it is important for her also, that the baby gets to know her father. This I know.

Hopefully as this is in 2 months time, I will be much more detached from her.

[kells76]

In my country (DK) it is always possible to alter time spend with child between parents. The father’s role is very recognised here.

That's really good    In the USA, it can vary state-to-state or even county-to-county. It couldn't hurt to double check with a lawyer -- again, at least in the USA, "initial consultations" (not the same as "retaining" a lawyer) can often be free or low cost, and worth it for peace of mind. Also smart to keep educating yourself about the process and the reality of the situation -- for example, learning what steps it would take to modify a parenting plan. If it's as simple as "Dad fills out a form and turns it in, and doesn't need Mom to sign it or cooperate", then you're set.

I just checked up on local law and remembered why I thought that the visitation time was at her place. Up until 6 months Old the baby can only be visited where the baby lives in safe surroundings near her mother. That is the law here. I think that it is important to see the child early, so that she will get to know me. Being as they reach out a lot in this early age

Good to know. That is different from here. Again, double-checking with a local lawyer could help: "OK, when the law says 'in safe surroundings near the mother', does that mean literally inside of Mom's home only? Or can I take the baby out in a stroller [baby carriage/pram] on a walk around the neighborhood?" If a lawyer comes back and says "Yes, it literally means inside of Mom's home only", then at least you know what to work with. But maybe the lawyer will say "Yes, I know it looks like it means that, but you are allowed to take walks outside with the baby", then that's helpful to know, too.

Great mindset to connect and bond with the baby early. Your baby will really benefit from your love and consistency -- so important.

The feelings, well my feelings primarily. What’s hers is hers. So,  I suppose I can ask that we go to a neutral place, but I definitely need to face that this will be how, if I want to see the baby at this early stage. My ex will support me in this I think, as it is important for her also, that the baby gets to know her father. This I know.

Do you think that if you were in more contact with her, that you might start to have romantic feelings for her again? Is that it, or am I off base?

I'm glad that you and your ex share the perspective that the baby needs both of you.

Hopefully as this is in 2 months time, I will be much more detached from her.

It's a process for sure. Can you remind me if you are seeing a counselor or therapist for yourself, to work on detaching from your ex?

[SaltyDawg]

AM,

   My heritage is NL/DE (Holland/Germany) and I am 1st generation American and by filling out some papers I can easily become a citizen of the EU as I am entitled to under Dutch law - I understand your predicament.

   I know you are well intentioned and your reasoning is sound in this matter, with the discussion we had earlier on a different thread.

   If DK law says the home of the mother for the first 6 months, then that is where you are going to meet your new daughter unless both of you mutually agree otherwise.  However, if you find a level of discomfort with your emotional attachment, or if you think she is going to make an issue with manipulations.  I know you have been advised to bring someone with you and that is good advice; however, as you don't want to do that I would suggest getting a body camera, and keep it rolling (this way if there is an accusation) you have documentation that will support the truth.  Tell the mother you want to have a video of you bonding with your daughter.  I know that there are rules put into place two and half years ago on body cameras, so make sure you are not breaking any local laws on this.

   Ask the mother if a public place, like a park would be good (especially if the weather is nice); however, do defer to the local law if she insists on her home.  The worst thing she will tell you is 'no'.

I can ask that we go to a neutral place[/b], but I definitely need to face that this will be how, if I want to see the baby at this early stage. My ex will support me in this I think, as it is important for her also, that the baby gets to know her father. This I know.

   Is your biggest fear, that you will resume the relationship with your ex?  If so, put some firm boundaries in place so this will less likely happen, and if it means bringing someone with you, so they can give you the look, or tell you politely that you are about to make a mistake, you may want to reconsider your feelings on bringing someone with you.

   If you choose to use a body camera (or another camera), you can review the footage at a later time, when you are not so emotionally charged, to see how she is affecting you.

   In any event, please take care of yourself with self-care.

   Take care.

SD

[Anonymous_male]

Kells,

Thanks for your input. I think I will try and see how it goes the first time of my visit. Yes it is the romantic feelings that I am worried about. I am seeing a T yes.

SD,

Thanks for commenting, as you already know of my situation from another thread. I am not sure if I dare use a concealed camera, but thanks for mentioning this, as it reminded me of doing a voice recording at least.

I also am thinking of asking to go to a neutral place and see what she says.

I do need boundaries and perhaps to bring someone with me. I would like to see the child alone the first time, but I will think some more about this. And yes that is my biggest fear! I still kind of like the idea of seeing how everything feels the first time and try and take it from there.

I appreciate your thoughts.