Downward spiral

[LadyMay]

My partner (39M) has a history of PTSD, childhood trauma/abuse, major depression, spousal abuse, and now…BPD. I’m a 37F and myself am a survivor of domestic violence and am familiar with having a parent that failed to love and protect. We’ve been dating for about 1.5 years but have known each other for quite some time prior as coworkers. He was instrumental in helping me trust again after my child’s father almost killed me.

The first few months of our relationship were basically perfect. Being older and knowing what we wanted in our relationships moving forward we got serious quickly, to the point we started family planning. He was exiting an abusive toxic marriage and I was recovering from a terrible assault. We were both scared but excited and building a future. In the midst of his divorce I met his mom, sister, and BIL. Our relationship was no secret.

About four months in, we had our first instance of discord. He had agreed to take care of the dogs at home while I stayed with my son in the hospital. My son ended up getting discharged early so I thought I’d surprise him. We were expecting to stay another night since he’d been so sick. I got to my house and he wasn’t there. He texted me like he was at the house but he obviously wasn’t. He ended up coming to the house at midnight to feed the dogs. He got upset with me and said he felt like I was trying to catch him in a trap by not telling him I was home. He said he had tried to surprise me by switching childcare days with his ex so he could spend the next day with us. I chalked it up to miscommunication but this really rattled him and put him on edge. We were both hurt.

As serious life changes began to happen, he started to spiral. His mom got cancer, his abusive dad reached out and when he was rebuffed his dad offered financial help to the ex to fund the divorce. His ex continued to guilt him for abandoning her as he filed for divorce. His PTSD also reared its ugly head. He was once consistent and reliable but quickly became the opposite. I love him very much and it’s been so hard to see him in his downward spiral.

He says he’s never felt the love I have for him outside of the guys he served with. He would willingly die with them but will not live life with me. He’s paralyzed with fear about moving forward with me for fear our relationship will become toxic like his abusive marriage. I walk on eggshells as I’m afraid to express my own emotions in the moment for fear of pushing him away more. He pushes me away to the extent I have to pick and choose what to share emotionally without putting him over his threshold. I don’t want to add to his feelings of worthlessness and being a bad person. Talking about the issues we’ve faced together…he views it as me beating him over the head with his mistakes. He says I have a right to express myself but that they make him feel unsafe. My solution was to spend more time together so things can be addressed in the moment in small manageable pieces so as to not overwhelm him while giving me the chance to express feelings and work through normal couple things.

I should also mention that I found out he was unfaithful. He had been acting off all summer being distant wanting to break up. I never said no but asked for an in person conversation so we could exchange our things and discuss boundaries moving forward. Despite being “done” and telling our coworkers we were no longer dating unbeknownst to me, we talked everyday and were still intimate. He would tell me I’m his soulmate and partner, the “one”. He always found reasons not to come over for the “talk”. When I confronted him about the affair he kept asking why I didn’t hate him. I expressed I wasn’t concerned with so much what as to why - what was he seeking with his actions. I said if he loved her to go be with her because I just wanted him to be happy. He said he wanted to work through it. I told him I have nothing but love for him and it’s true. I set a firm boundary that his indiscretion could not happen again. He said if I cheated on him he would not be able to be as forgiving as I was to him.

I mentioned getting psychiatric help but he’s resistant. He says my suggestion he has BPD was insulting. He splits several times a week it seems. He says he’s broken and needs to step back from the relationship as it’s his penance to be alone. In the past he’s told me to leave him alone. He’ll say I’m pushing but also say I push in a good way. He’ll say he’s not worthy and I deserve someone better than him as he can offer me nothing. If I leave him alone he gets anxious if I don’t text him back within 5 minutes however if he’s in a mood he won’t reply to me for hours. He says he’ll be over to collect his things because he loves me and wants to stop hurting me but doesn’t. When he does come over I’m prepared for utter heartbreak and he’ll ask why I look so guarded before asking for a hug and kiss. He’ll curl up in a ball on the sofa and say he doesn’t want to end it but doesn’t know what to do. I’ve told him I’ll gladly step away if he no longer loves me or no longer wants/sees a future with me. He says he’ll say it but that he’d be lying and cries.

 Today I was irritable at an unrelated situation and he accused me of being snarky and dismissive. This week has been hard on him, I’ll admit that. He answered my call screaming at me. He kept saying PLEASE READ, I’m PLEASE READing done I’m over it. He hung up on me and said I made him out to be a bad guy for not showing up to something he didn’t commit to. I asked if he was coming and he said no - I made no demands. That was it. It was truly heartbreaking. I addressed and validated his feelings while being honest with mine. I said it’s okay to be angry. It wasn’t okay to scream at me. If I was snarky and dismissive that wasn’t okay either on my part. His response to my messages was “bye” and “goodbye”. If he wants to be left alone why is he still even responding? I will give him space but I don’t know how to ride it out some days. Of note, we found out we’re pregnant. We have been pregnant before but miscarried. He was truly excited the last time but is freaking out this go around. Says he’s just going to fail another person in his life.

A few weeks ago I asked what he wanted from me. He said “to be my wife, I’m just scared”. He broke down crying saying he wants to be a good person again but doesn’t know how. He says he wishes he can unPLEASE READ his brain but doesn’t know what’s wrong with him. And now he’s trying to end things again. He may leave me, I can’t stop him, but I wont leave him so long as he isn’t detrimental to my son’s emotional and social development. I have great friends that love me (and him!). One friends sister has diagnosed BPD so we are lucky to navigate together.

Any and all support would be appreciated. His splits are becoming more frequent. I can’t force DBT. I attempt to change how I address him by assessing his and my emotions, taking space when emotions are high. I keep in mind his triggers and address them if I feel I’m reaching a threshold to let him know where I’m coming from. I don’t know if he’s really trying to break up? How do I ride out these cycles? I’m just an imperfect person trying to love him perfectly. I cannot fix him but I want him to know I’m truly in his corner while respecting my own needs.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[tina7868]

Welcome LadyMay  ! I'm sorry for what brought you here but I'm glad you're with us.  We help and support each other here.

It sounds like you`ve been through a rollercoaster of emotional extremes. You clearly care a lot about your partner, and your heart is in the right place.

Sorry if I missed this, but how old is your son?

Any and all support would be appreciated. His splits are becoming more frequent. I can’t force DBT. I attempt to change how I address him by assessing his and my emotions, taking space when emotions are high. I keep in mind his triggers and address them if I feel I’m reaching a threshold to let him know where I’m coming from. I don’t know if he’s really trying to break up? How do I ride out these cycles? I’m just an imperfect person trying to love him perfectly. I cannot fix him but I want him to know I’m truly in his corner while respecting my own needs.

You mention cycles. This concept is something that is familiar with a lot of members here. How have you been navigating these cycles up until this point? How would you ideally want to navigate them?


Thank you for sharing your story with us. I`m sure you`ll get help and support here, as well as grow and learn a lot about yourself (as I have!).  Hang in there. 

[Pook075]

Hey Lady and welcome.  I'm so sorry you're going through this and there's some major red flags here.

His mom got cancer, his abusive dad reached out and when he was rebuffed his dad offered financial help to the ex to fund the divorce. His ex continued to guilt him for abandoning her as he filed for divorce.

Heartbroken <abusive> wife, abusive dad...dad chooses to help wife.  Have you personally spoken to the father or the ex-wife?  I am guessing that they would have a very different story and a very different perspective on things.

You are currently going through what his wife went through, and that's not passing judgement.  He's having severe commitment issues from fear of abandonment and disordered thinking.  Hopefully you realize that this is not your fault and likely was not his ex's fault either.  The fault goes to mental health.  I'm not saying his ex was a saint or anything since all of us are far from perfect.  But she certainly experienced a lot of what you're experiencing and the blame is being passed.

The same goes for the father, I would dig a little deeper to see if he's really who he's being made out to be.

He says he’s never felt the love I have for him outside of the guys he served with. He would willingly die with them but will not live life with me.

Complex PTSD and BPD have almost identical symptoms, to the point where I wonder if they can be the exact same thing.  I'm not a professional so I am not qualified to make that statement, but they do present the same way and stem from adolescent trauma.  Don't get caught up in the "what" as much as the symptoms and how to help him overcome them.

I should also mention that I found out he was unfaithful. He had been acting off all summer being distant wanting to break up. I never said no but asked for an in person conversation so we could exchange our things and discuss boundaries moving forward. Despite being “done” and telling our coworkers we were no longer dating unbeknownst to me, we talked everyday and were still intimate. He would tell me I’m his soulmate and partner, the “one”. He always found reasons not to come over for the “talk”. When I confronted him about the affair he kept asking why I didn’t hate him.

This is why I think that the father and the ex aren't terrible people and your boyfriend is simply a victim- the pattern is repeating in your own relationship.  Again, red flags galore.

I mentioned getting psychiatric help but he’s resistant. He says my suggestion he has BPD was insulting. He splits several times a week it seems. He says he’s broken and needs to step back from the relationship as it’s his penance to be alone.

This is the common response to telling someone you suspect mental illness with them.  He does have all the telltale signs of BPD (or complex PTSD) and both are treated through therapy.  Confronting him directly will rarely result in your desired outcome though, so it's best if you allow a professional to do that.

Any and all support would be appreciated. His splits are becoming more frequent. I can’t force DBT. I attempt to change how I address him by assessing his and my emotions, taking space when emotions are high. I keep in mind his triggers and address them if I feel I’m reaching a threshold to let him know where I’m coming from. I don’t know if he’s really trying to break up? How do I ride out these cycles? 

Unfortunately, the cycles are who he is and you've shown the patterns above without fully realizing it.  Everyone around him turns out to be horrible while he's a misunderstood victim.  This is the BPD (or Complex PTSD) cycle.

The best thing for you to do is dig deeper in this site, especially the sticky tabs along the top of the page and learn better ways to communicate when he's dysregulated.  At the same time, you also need to build some boundaries on what you need from the relationship- for instance, if he cheats again, it's over.  If he yells at you, you're walking away.

I really feel for you and wish there were better answers, since this relationship will be a huge learning curve for you.  It can work though and it can be good, but it's a lot of work getting the trust levels there.

One thing to keep in mind is that his answers depend on his emotions- maybe he says "I hate you" but his emotions say, "I need a hug."  This is very common and it's difficult at times to react to the emotions instead of the words.  But that's the task for a healthy, balanced relationship.

I wish you luck and I hope that helped!

[LadyMay]

Welcome LadyMay  ! I'm sorry for what brought you here but I'm glad you're with us.  We help and support each other here.

It sounds like you`ve been through a rollercoaster of emotional extremes. You clearly care a lot about your partner, and your heart is in the right place.

Sorry if I missed this, but how old is your son?


You mention cycles. This concept is something that is familiar with a lot of members here. How have you been navigating these cycles up until this point? How would you ideally want to navigate them?


Thank you for sharing your story with us. I`m sure you`ll get help and support here, as well as grow and learn a lot about yourself (as I have!).  Hang in there. 

I hope I’m replying to your comment correctly. I’m not quite sure how to navigate the message boards quite yet. For starters thank you for taking the time to respond.

My son is 8 and absolutely thinks the world of my partner. He calls him his bonus dad. He refers to my partner’s daughter as his sister. My partner has not had an outbursts around my son - never a raised voice. If my son frustrates him he’ll remove himself from the situation or attempt to talk through things rationally. He’s very patient with him and they get along well. My son misses him. He’s my son’s favorite person.

As far as cycles, lately I give him space but not too much space? I don’t make demands but tell him I’m there for him and that I love him. He tells me to leave him alone and I’ll say “okay I still love you and am here”. He creates distance but checks in. The longest he’s gone without talking to me has been a week and even then it was only twice - otherwise it’s daily communication. In the beginning the BPD tendencies made me anxious and I found the harder I tried to be there for him the more he felt pushed.

Thank you for the encouragement. It is comforting to know I’m not alone and also feel understood.

[LadyMay]

Hey Lady and welcome.  I'm so sorry you're going through this and there's some major red flags here.

Heartbroken <abusive> wife, abusive dad...dad chooses to help wife.  Have you personally spoken to the father or the ex-wife?  I am guessing that they would have a very different story and a very different perspective on things.

You are currently going through what his wife went through, and that's not passing judgement.  He's having severe commitment issues from fear of abandonment and disordered thinking.  Hopefully you realize that this is not your fault and likely was not his ex's fault either.  The fault goes to mental health.  I'm not saying his ex was a saint or anything since all of us are far from perfect.  But she certainly experienced a lot of what you're experiencing and the blame is being passed.

The same goes for the father, I would dig a little deeper to see if he's really who he's being made out to be.

Complex PTSD and BPD have almost identical symptoms, to the point where I wonder if they can be the exact same thing.  I'm not a professional so I am not qualified to make that statement, but they do present the same way and stem from adolescent trauma.  Don't get caught up in the "what" as much as the symptoms and how to help him overcome them.

This is why I think that the father and the ex aren't terrible people and your boyfriend is simply a victim- the pattern is repeating in your own relationship.  Again, red flags galore.

This is the common response to telling someone you suspect mental illness with them.  He does have all the telltale signs of BPD (or complex PTSD) and both are treated through therapy.  Confronting him directly will rarely result in your desired outcome though, so it's best if you allow a professional to do that.


Unfortunately, the cycles are who he is and you've shown the patterns above without fully realizing it.  Everyone around him turns out to be horrible while he's a misunderstood victim.  This is the BPD (or Complex PTSD) cycle.

The best thing for you to do is dig deeper in this site, especially the sticky tabs along the top of the page and learn better ways to communicate when he's dysregulated.  At the same time, you also need to build some boundaries on what you need from the relationship- for instance, if he cheats again, it's over.  If he yells at you, you're walking away.

I really feel for you and wish there were better answers, since this relationship will be a huge learning curve for you.  It can work though and it can be good, but it's a lot of work getting the trust levels there.

One thing to keep in mind is that his answers depend on his emotions- maybe he says "I hate you" but his emotions say, "I need a hug."  This is very common and it's difficult at times to react to the emotions instead of the words.  But that's the task for a healthy, balanced relationship.

I wish you luck and I hope that helped!

Thank you so much for the insight. I can say with certainty his father was horrifically abusive. His mom and sisters have confirmed this. Father is well to do public servant held in high regard, monster behind closed doors. Undoubtedly his ex has experienced some of the same emotional dysregulation but she’s not a kind person and is very manipulative. Not to pass blame at all but there is definitely unresolved trauma there. His father wants access to his granddaughter which would require building a relationship of some sort with my partner. My partner rebuffed, so the father reached out to the ex in retaliation.

When my partner had me meet his mom she made me promise to be good to him because he’s been through so much. I reached out to her a few months ago to let her know though she’s far away I kept my promise and he has me in his corner in whatever capacity he’ll allow. She said she knew he was struggling and was worried but happy to know he had support. It was not well received despite good intentions. Assuming his simultaneous indiscretion that I was unaware of at this time had something to do with his reaction since I may have unknowingly poked holes in that reality. Huge learning curve, he felt betrayed as you can imagine.

I have shifted my focus to emotions over words and how his feelings manifest (as you put it focus on symptoms). This is really hard when emotions are high. I’ve noticed his outbursts are never personal but he happens to have them around me. One good thing I guess is he always tells me I’m a good person and that I’m basically a saint. He may villainize in the moment but when he steps back he’ll say he loves me and that I did nothing wrong and that he is the problem. It’s a really hard thing…validating their feelings, holding boundaries, and not take their lashing out personally. Me holding him accountable = me being mean in his eyes. Me being moody for whatever external reason = me displaying toxic behavior that could lead to abuse. Me disagreeing = me arguing and not respecting his no. It’s hard. When he is in a better headspace I think it is fair to ask him about trust, where he feels we lack, and what he needs to build upon what we have to overcome the fear of toxic cycles repeating themselves. I will refrain from mentioning BPD and reiterate I’ll support him seeking additional help should he choose.

I will definitely utilize the resources available to help navigate this. Some days feel really helpless and it’s nice to know I’m not alone. Thank you for the encouragement and taking the time. It means a lot.

[Pook075]

Me holding him accountable = me being mean in his eyes.

It can feel that way, sure, and a lot of people without mental illness don't react well when we say they've done something wrong.  The trick is to frame it in a way that doesn't feel like a complaint (aka mean) or a judgement (also mean), especially when he's unstable.  In a disordered state, his feelings are amplified so a slight gripe can feel like a nuclear option.

Me being moody for whatever external reason = me displaying toxic behavior that could lead to abuse.

This is why this journey is as much about ourselves as the person with BPD.  Why are you moody?  You might say because he did something really insensitive and you're mad at him.  Fair enough.  In the moment, it may not pay to defend yourself and try to correct him, but eventually you need to get that off your chest and let go of those negative vibes.

If you're still "moody" later in the day because of something that happened, talk it out from your own standpoint:

- What not to say: You were a jerk when you turned off the TV while I was watching my favorite weekly show.

- Better thing to say: I'm sorry if I got upset earlier; I had been waiting all week to see what would happen on my favorite show.

By clearing the air and making it about you, it gives him a chance to recognize a mistake without blaming him directly.

Me disagreeing = me arguing and not respecting his no. It’s hard.

Yup, it is hard.  In these situations you have a choice to make and it involves your boundaries.  For example, if he says we're not getting dessert on the way home but you really want to stop for ice cream...it's not the end of the world.  If he says you can't visit a relative at the hospital, then that's something worth pushing back on.  You have to pick your battles though and try to do it when he's stable.

Again, you do this through "me statements" since they're true for you and he can't argue with that.

When he is in a better headspace I think it is fair to ask him about trust, where he feels we lack, and what he needs to build upon what we have to overcome the fear of toxic cycles repeating themselves.

Once you get the communication down where you're speaking for yourself (me statements) and validating his emotions (again, me statements- it would really stink to feel that way...), a lot of the extreme highs and lows start to go away.  Not disappear, mind you, but lessen in intensity and easier to level out.

Your question above honestly stresses me out...overcoming the fear of toxic cycles repeating.  To me, that sounds too much like "how d we fix you?"  I'd make it much more personal about one specific thing, how can I support you to make this weekly/monthly task easier? (notice, another me statement...what can I do). 

If that blows up, pick another smaller topic another day and start again....doing something different from the first time.  This is learned communication, it's not intuitive, so you need some practice to really nail it.  And you will mess up, just like all of us have.  That's okay though.  You continue to practice and find what works for your relationship.

[LadyMay]

It can feel that way, sure, and a lot of people without mental illness don't react well when we say they've done something wrong.  The trick is to frame it in a way that doesn't feel like a complaint (aka mean) or a judgement (also mean), especially when he's unstable.  In a disordered state, his feelings are amplified so a slight gripe can feel like a nuclear option.

This is why this journey is as much about ourselves as the person with BPD.  Why are you moody?  You might say because he did something really insensitive and you're mad at him.  Fair enough.  In the moment, it may not pay to defend yourself and try to correct him, but eventually you need to get that off your chest and let go of those negative vibes.

If you're still "moody" later in the day because of something that happened, talk it out from your own standpoint:

- What not to say: You were a jerk when you turned off the TV while I was watching my favorite weekly show.

- Better thing to say: I'm sorry if I got upset earlier; I had been waiting all week to see what would happen on my favorite show.

By clearing the air and making it about you, it gives him a chance to recognize a mistake without blaming him directly.

Yup, it is hard.  In these situations you have a choice to make and it involves your boundaries.  For example, if he says we're not getting dessert on the way home but you really want to stop for ice cream...it's not the end of the world.  If he says you can't visit a relative at the hospital, then that's something worth pushing back on.  You have to pick your battles though and try to do it when he's stable.

Again, you do this through "me statements" since they're true for you and he can't argue with that.

Once you get the communication down where you're speaking for yourself (me statements) and validating his emotions (again, me statements- it would really stink to feel that way...), a lot of the extreme highs and lows start to go away.  Not disappear, mind you, but lessen in intensity and easier to level out.

Your question above honestly stresses me out...overcoming the fear of toxic cycles repeating.  To me, that sounds too much like "how d we fix you?"  I'd make it much more personal about one specific thing, how can I support you to make this weekly/monthly task easier? (notice, another me statement...what can I do). 

If that blows up, pick another smaller topic another day and start again....doing something different from the first time.  This is learned communication, it's not intuitive, so you need some practice to really nail it.  And you will mess up, just like all of us have.  That's okay though.  You continue to practice and find what works for your relationship.

These are all so helpful. Thank you for taking the time to explain. He keeps saying he’s broken and doesn’t know how to fix that fear. Focusing on specific issues/timeframes and thus much smaller pieces to build upon makes sense. I really am trying. I get moody when dealing with my abusive ex. My partner was already overwhelmed so while he said I wasn’t vulgar or profane my tone was perceived as mean and it was a nuclear explosion. He says right now he doesn’t know what to believe or what’s real. I think I read somewhere not to chase or push as it can cause them to build higher walls. Nice to know perfection isn’t an expectation and that it’s a work in progress for everyone

[Pook075]

I think I read somewhere not to chase or push as it can cause them to build higher walls.

There's a quote in BPD that rings true to so many, it's "I hate you...don't leave me."  That's the push/pull dynamic at work.

Here's the thing though, the dysregulated mess comes into play when they're off their game and emotions are swinging one way or the other.  You don't want to have any serious conversations when they're on a high or low other than to help them find their baseline again. 

With my BPD kid, my go-to is, "It's okay, we can work through this together.  Calm down, relax, it's going to be okay.  Let's talk it out and find an answer."  And I'm saying this barely above a whisper like I'm reading a child a bedtime story.  Very soft soothing emotions...all is well, we've got this.

Usually within 2-3 minutes, she's calm and thinking rationally again.

The thing with BPD is it's over-fueled emotions that make everything more dramatic.  Logic pretty much shuts down and they're relying on a fight or flight reflex, a lot like a deer fleeing from a wolf.  You soothe the emotions, they level out, and then logic returns to the forefront.

But something else happens as well.  After you successfully disarm a few of these meltdowns, the BPD turns to you in those moments because you're an asset, an ally that can help them regulate.  So the 6th time this happens, they're not starting at extreme energy swings because they trust you to get them through it.  Instead of their panic/urgency being a 10/10, maybe it starts at a 8/10.  After the 20th time, it gets to a 7/10.  With practice, the extreme doesn't have to be a lifetime thing.

[LadyMay]

There's a quote in BPD that rings true to so many, it's "I hate you...don't leave me."  That's the push/pull dynamic at work.

Here's the thing though, the dysregulated mess comes into play when they're off their game and emotions are swinging one way or the other.  You don't want to have any serious conversations when they're on a high or low other than to help them find their baseline again. 

With my BPD kid, my go-to is, "It's okay, we can work through this together.  Calm down, relax, it's going to be okay.  Let's talk it out and find an answer."  And I'm saying this barely above a whisper like I'm reading a child a bedtime story.  Very soft soothing emotions...all is well, we've got this.

Usually within 2-3 minutes, she's calm and thinking rationally again.

The thing with BPD is it's over-fueled emotions that make everything more dramatic.  Logic pretty much shuts down and they're relying on a fight or flight reflex, a lot like a deer fleeing from a wolf.  You soothe the emotions, they level out, and then logic returns to the forefront.

But something else happens as well.  After you successfully disarm a few of these meltdowns, the BPD turns to you in those moments because you're an asset, an ally that can help them regulate.  So the 6th time this happens, they're not starting at extreme energy swings because they trust you to get them through it.  Instead of their panic/urgency being a 10/10, maybe it starts at a 8/10.  After the 20th time, it gets to a 7/10.  With practice, the extreme doesn't have to be a lifetime thing.

I think the hard thing is to know when he is dysregulated. I’m still learning nuances but sometimes I don’t know he’s in a heightened state until a perceived slight causes a nuclear reaction. When he is overwhelmed I’ll let him know I’m there for him. Sometimes he’ll make an effort to talk it out, other times he’ll say talking gets him nowhere. At times it feels like one step forward only to take two steps back a short while later. The optimist in me sees that as a slow but positive direction. It’s still hard. I think I will reflect on how I’ve interacted with him in stressful situations and look how it affected the outcome I was seeking vs the outcome I wanted. As you mentioned it’s not a problem to be fixed but rather how we respond to their emotions and help minimize the meltdowns. During meltdowns have you found it best to go no contact and let them reach out to you or let them know intermittently you are there for them if and when they are ready ie support/reassurance?

[Pook075]

During meltdowns have you found it best to go no contact and let them reach out to you or let them know intermittently you are there for them if and when they are ready ie support/reassurance?

I have 2 BPD's in my life- my oldest daughter (traditional BPD- everything is explosive and outward) and my ex wife (quiet BPD- everything is internal and hidden).  They suspect quiet BPD is much more common, but also much harder to diagnose because it's not obvious.

With my kid, she gets unstable and goes nuclear- it's very easy to know what's going on and I know how to speak with her.  Quiet, soothing...it's all going to be okay.  If she's upset and someone doesn't do that, she just keeps spiraling up or down until she suicidal or ready to kill someone.  For her, I have to intervene as quickly as possible....or else it gets ugly and she's going to be admitted somewhere.  Little things can turn into big things, like the icing on the cake once she gets in that highly negative mindset.  She's been through DBT and things are better today, but I still act quickly when I see her dysregulated.

With my ex-wife, she would get quiet and become depressed.  Or occasionally she'd be moody and snap at me, but never for anything obvious.  I was always kind of perplexed and I missed all the signs.  So when she ignored me, I gave her space without realizing in her mind that she was replaying our worst moments on a loop and our marriage was silently ending.  Again, I should have said something to reassure her more often, even though I had no idea that anything was truly wrong.  The truth is that she suffered in silence for much of our marriage, she was always too scared to talk about her feelings or emotions.  It built and built and built until she went nuclear like my kid...only my kid would have 15 minutes of pent up frustration.  My wife would have years of it to let out.

Now, sometimes my ex or my kid just want to argue and blame.  If I try to walk away from my ex, she becomes violent and it presents like traditional BPD.  If I try to explain my viewpoint, it's seen as putting her down and shaming her.  It could have been something simple like cleaning up our bedroom where she had stuff thrown everywhere.  When she was dysregulated, my opinions did not matter and they were perceived as cruel. 

So I've learned that you never want to argue, and if you have to walk away then you need to do it with an affirming statement like, "We're both really upset right now, so I'm going to step away so we can calm down.  Can we talk about this in a few hours?"  Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.  But just turning and walking away felt like abandonment to them and made everything 10x worse.

Ideally, you want to squash any dysregulation in the moment with calm, affirming statements.  "I don't want to argue about this, I love you."  Also, you need to focus on the emotions instead of the words.  That's the hardest part...someone's screaming at you with rage yet their emotions show a scared child who's desperate for affirmation.  So you show empathy in that moment.  Maybe their words are misplaced, but you can understand the emotions of what it's like to be scared or betrayed.  So you focus on the emotions and mirror their statements back to them.

For instance, an argument my ex-wife and I would have often:

Ex- "You always say I don't do anything around the house, even though I work my ass off."

Me- (thinking that she's laid in bed all day playing games on her phone) "I've never said that you don't do anything, I just said there's a lot of stuff we have to do.  I hate living in a messy house."

Ex- "You always blame me for everything and put me down, you never support me or believe in me."

Me- "What are you talking about?  Every day I..."

The problem there was that she was reacting emotionally and making always/never statements...which were not true.  So I focused on the words instead of just validating her emotions, that she was a good wife that works hard (just not around the house, LOL).  I was using logic, while she was speaking through emotion.  The two are opposite languages.

What I should have said was:

Ex- "You always say I don't do anything around the house, even though I work my ass off."

Me- "I know you work hard and I love that about you. I appreciate everything you do for me."

Ex- "Sometimes it feels like...(something negative, but the intensity has already lowered some because I affirmed her right off the bat)"

Me- "I get frustrated at times and I have to work on that.  I love you though and never meant to make you feel that way."

<an hour later, when her mindset has changed> Me- "Hey, let's get the kitchen cleaned up and then go out to dinner. We deserve a fun night out."

Does that make sense?

[LadyMay]

I have 2 BPD's in my life- my oldest daughter (traditional BPD- everything is explosive and outward) and my ex wife (quiet BPD- everything is internal and hidden).  They suspect quiet BPD is much more common, but also much harder to diagnose because it's not obvious.

With my kid, she gets unstable and goes nuclear- it's very easy to know what's going on and I know how to speak with her.  Quiet, soothing...it's all going to be okay.  If she's upset and someone doesn't do that, she just keeps spiraling up or down until she suicidal or ready to kill someone.  For her, I have to intervene as quickly as possible....or else it gets ugly and she's going to be admitted somewhere.  Little things can turn into big things, like the icing on the cake once she gets in that highly negative mindset.  She's been through DBT and things are better today, but I still act quickly when I see her dysregulated.

With my ex-wife, she would get quiet and become depressed.  Or occasionally she'd be moody and snap at me, but never for anything obvious.  I was always kind of perplexed and I missed all the signs.  So when she ignored me, I gave her space without realizing in her mind that she was replaying our worst moments on a loop and our marriage was silently ending.  Again, I should have said something to reassure her more often, even though I had no idea that anything was truly wrong.  The truth is that she suffered in silence for much of our marriage, she was always too scared to talk about her feelings or emotions.  It built and built and built until she went nuclear like my kid...only my kid would have 15 minutes of pent up frustration.  My wife would have years of it to let out.

Now, sometimes my ex or my kid just want to argue and blame.  If I try to walk away from my ex, she becomes violent and it presents like traditional BPD.  If I try to explain my viewpoint, it's seen as putting her down and shaming her.  It could have been something simple like cleaning up our bedroom where she had stuff thrown everywhere.  When she was dysregulated, my opinions did not matter and they were perceived as cruel. 

So I've learned that you never want to argue, and if you have to walk away then you need to do it with an affirming statement like, "We're both really upset right now, so I'm going to step away so we can calm down.  Can we talk about this in a few hours?"  Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.  But just turning and walking away felt like abandonment to them and made everything 10x worse.

Ideally, you want to squash any dysregulation in the moment with calm, affirming statements.  "I don't want to argue about this, I love you."  Also, you need to focus on the emotions instead of the words.  That's the hardest part...someone's screaming at you with rage yet their emotions show a scared child who's desperate for affirmation.  So you show empathy in that moment.  Maybe their words are misplaced, but you can understand the emotions of what it's like to be scared or betrayed.  So you focus on the emotions and mirror their statements back to them.

For instance, an argument my ex-wife and I would have often:

Ex- "You always say I don't do anything around the house, even though I work my ass off."

Me- (thinking that she's laid in bed all day playing games on her phone) "I've never said that you don't do anything, I just said there's a lot of stuff we have to do.  I hate living in a messy house."

Ex- "You always blame me for everything and put me down, you never support me or believe in me."

Me- "What are you talking about?  Every day I..."

The problem there was that she was reacting emotionally and making always/never statements...which were not true.  So I focused on the words instead of just validating her emotions, that she was a good wife that works hard (just not around the house, LOL).  I was using logic, while she was speaking through emotion.  The two are opposite languages.

What I should have said was:

Ex- "You always say I don't do anything around the house, even though I work my ass off."

Me- "I know you work hard and I love that about you. I appreciate everything you do for me."

Ex- "Sometimes it feels like...(something negative, but the intensity has already lowered some because I affirmed her right off the bat)"

Me- "I get frustrated at times and I have to work on that.  I love you though and never meant to make you feel that way."

<an hour later, when her mindset has changed> Me- "Hey, let's get the kitchen cleaned up and then go out to dinner. We deserve a fun night out."

Does that make sense?

It absolutely makes sense. It will take work and a lot of patience on my part. These are really helpful approaches. The learning curve is rather steep but hopefully he gives me enough grace as I implement what I’ve learned here to help him find some stability, even if only as a friend in the end. You’ve clearly put in the work and your examples are really easy to follow and distinguish the nuances. Thank you so much for sharing your story and experience with me as I navigate this roller coaster.

[Pook075]

It absolutely makes sense. It will take work and a lot of patience on my part. These are really helpful approaches. The learning curve is rather steep but hopefully he gives me enough grace as I implement what I’ve learned here to help him find some stability, even if only as a friend in the end. You’ve clearly put in the work and your examples are really easy to follow and distinguish the nuances. Thank you so much for sharing your story and experience with me as I navigate this roller coaster.

Like I said, I figured this out too late to save my marriage...which is okay.  It still greatly benefits both my BPD relationships though and makes life a whole lot easier.  Around 95% of the drama is not there anymore, and if I need to say something important then I halfway know how I can deliver it. 

Practice gets you there though because it's truly just empathy, it's teaching yourself to see someone else's feelings and validate them in the moment.  Honestly, it makes you a better person and my current relationship with a non-BPD is fantastic because I naturally make her feel important.  So don't think that this is a wasted exercise if things don't work out- it's hugely beneficial at work, in other relationships, etc.  We can all be a little softer and understanding to the people we love.

Please continue to ask questions as they arise- we've got you!