Advice of resources based on where I THINK I am

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I actually feel lighter.

I did this with a therapist's help. I think there's a method called confrontational writing that can be therapeutic. Pretty sure I wrote over two dozen drafts and each one helped me get closer to putting down on paper what happened in the marriage to lead to this point. It clocked in at 10 pages.

I remember writing it and the catharsis of sending it. Can't remember the response other than it was classic.

Someone once wrote it takes one month for each year of marriage to heal. That's for a "normal" relationship. For a high-conflict marriage it's more like 2 months for each year.

Obviously that's a rough estimate and everyone is different but the month I felt great for the first time in forever was exactly 2 months for each year of marriage. So 11 years of marriage = 22 months before I felt great about where I was at.

You're in the roughest patch now and things like sending the letter are important because it's for you.

Also, this is probably a bit too candid but you're in no shape to help her given what's happened.

For many people with codependent traits there's this almost grandiose and even delusional belief in our abilities to rescue others. I look back at my codependent delusions and it is almost comical how deluded I was.

I'm reluctant to compare people to dogs, although I love dogs so hopefully this isn't offensive. Codependence is almost like trying to retrain a dangerous dog by letting them bite you more. What is often more effective is to have a skilled trainer with good boundaries and a deep understanding of what a reactive dog needs and why, then working almost dispassionately and patiently to achieve progress. Even when a dog is rehabilitated, you have to keep those boundaries in mind at all times so a bad event doesn't happen.

You can't be rescuing others when you're still trying to figure out your own wounds much less how to care for them so you can heal. Maybe for some people the stars align and they can do that but most of us have category 5 damage and the rebuilding requires total focus on our needs.

[livednlearned]

I actually feel lighter.

I did this with a therapist's help. I think there's a method called confrontational writing that can be therapeutic. Pretty sure I wrote over two dozen drafts and each one helped me get closer to putting down on paper what happened in the marriage to lead to this point. It clocked in at 10 pages.

I remember writing it and the catharsis of sending it. Can't remember the response other than it was classic.

Someone once wrote it takes one month for each year of marriage to heal. That's for a "normal" relationship. For a high-conflict marriage it's more like 2 months for each year.

Obviously that's a rough estimate and everyone is different but the month I felt great for the first time in forever was exactly 2 months for each year of marriage. So 11 years of marriage = 22 months before I felt great about where I was at.

You're in the roughest patch now and things like sending the letter are important because it's for you.

Also, this is probably a bit too candid but you're in no shape to help her given what's happened.

For many people with codependent traits there's this almost grandiose and even delusional belief in our abilities to rescue others. I look back at my codependent delusions and it is almost comical how deluded I was.

I'm reluctant to compare people to dogs, although I love dogs so hopefully this isn't offensive. Codependence is almost like trying to retrain a dangerous dog by letting them bite you more. What is often more effective is to have a skilled trainer with good boundaries and a deep understanding of what a reactive dog needs and why, then working almost dispassionately and patiently to achieve progress. Even when a dog is rehabilitated, you have to keep those boundaries in mind at all times so a bad event doesn't happen.

You can't be rescuing others when you're still trying to figure out your own wounds much less how to care for them so you can heal. Maybe for some people the stars align and they can do that but most of us have category 5 damage and the rebuilding requires total focus on our needs.

[AlleyOop23]

I need a little help. I know what’s happening. I’m getting g sucked into a sense obligation. Help me
To ensure I don’t make it healthy choices.

My wife is on me to see that all that PLEASE READ was her depression.
After refusing help and telling me it was me she on HRT and actively managing that. After refusing meds and meds hat Ritalin wasn’t an issue she’s off Ritalin on a high dose of Wellbutrin.  She says she’s written me 38 pages of answers to questions I’ve asked angrily such as how would I go to therapy with you when you aren’t accountable for physically abusing me, deny you have an anger management problem, criticized me for (list of some pretty awful PLEASE READ).

The HRT and meds are working. There are longer flashes of the person I fell for. But then there’s flights of anger unpredictably.

I feel an obligation to hear her out. It’s gnawing at me and it’s not healthy.

[livednlearned]

Is this similar to how things played out the last time you attempted to leave?

Are you saying the narrative is: if it's treatable depression and perimenopause/hormones, then you should forgive her? (your wife's narrative).

That if this is true, then it's not an intractable personality issue?

38 pages is a lot. I would go through it with a therapist, and not alone.

If she apologized for physically abusing you and went to anger management classes, would that change things for you?

My ex did not make as much of an effort to keep the relationship together post-separation, but he did make attempts. If I did not agree with things he said to manipulate me back into old habits, his mask flew off quickly. I went from "you are the love of my life" to a "c&*t" in the span of 60 seconds. For saying "I can't imagine how you would treat me if you hated me."

I'm guessing your spouse is testing your limits not only out of desperation but also because she believes these new boundaries can be overcome.

[AlleyOop23]

Hello BPD family -

I’d like to hear thoughts on a conundrum I al having.  

I have a 4 day trip planned with my kids to go see my mom and their cousins and my siblings. My mom is having a moment of clarity and energy and overall isn’t doing great. My kids 13 and 11 haven’t seen hrr much in the last. 5 years.  I’m looking forward to seeing my siblings.

My stbx is pitching a fit over the trip. Guilt anger. I can force this on her. But it means subjecting my kids to potential guilt from their mom or a scene of anger with their mom and I.  

I would have to pick them up at her place given the timing. I could move the trip a day and leave from my place but I don’t really want to live like that.

I can look at this like okay it’s early these things will get easier. Or wow when are you going to stop caretaking and live your life?

Thoughts? Wise to choose peace? Or am I just Neville Chsmberlain when I should be Churchill?

[kells76]

Couple of logistical questions:

Is this supposed to be a Friday to Monday trip?

Will the kids be done with school for the year (i.e. they do not go back to school when you get back from the trip)?

How much flexibility do you have with your work schedule?

How much flexibility do you have with other logistical stuff (any airline tickets, hotels, rental cars, etc)?

And is the entire trip during your parenting time, or does any of it happen on your kids' mom's time?

...

I truly understand that balance -- at some point, if you keep doing stuff to "keep the peace", it's placating/appeasement and all of a sudden there is zero trip with the kids. Yet the flip side is gaining the wisdom to steer clear of unnecessary conflicts and escalations, while remaining firm in "this is what we're doing and I can tolerate the discomfort".

I think learning more about the logistics of the trip will help me get a better handle on what options you might have, so I'll wait a bit to hear back.

Do you think there is any real risk of her "convincing" the kids they "don't really want to go"? Or is it more that yes, the kids will definitely go, it's just a question of how much guilt their mom will put on them?

[AlleyOop23]

The issue for her and I should have said is that I didn’t consult her. I told her. (She would have said no if I’d asked). And she isn’t invited. And she wanted to take a 10 day trip all of us. She feels like she’s being excluded. She’s losing my family.

The trip is Friday to Tuesday. 100% my time. I offered to move it to another weekend. Shorten it.

I told her I wouldn’t travel with her. It’s not about my family it’s just aboutp turn on the TV putting us all through our dynamic. Not about missing out on my family.

[livednlearned]

How about give the kids a quick heads up and normalize it for them. Something like:

Hey, obviously we're all adjusting to changes here. I'm anticipating this trip will be hard for your mom. She's learning distress tolerance and right now she's experiencing distress. I know she'll feel hurt and might say things that aren't nice and I wish she wouldn't do that in front of you but I have no say over that, other than to let you know I'm here if you want to talk. We're going because this trip is important to me, and to you, for x y z reasons. Hopefully the challenges your mom feels she can talk about with people in her circle, and learn how to handle her feelings so they aren't overwhelming for her. That's a good thing to know in life -- have someone in your life like a therapist you can talk to if you find yourself in an emotional deep end.

You want to model calm for them, and compassion, without letting mom's behavior change the outcome of something that is very reasonable. Sort of what you would say about a child having a tantrum that you care about, even if the behavior is tough for everyone.

[AlleyOop23]

She wants to go too. So weird.

[zachira]

With an understanding of how people with BPD do not develop as separate people in their own right And depend on other people and events to regulate their emotions, it does make sense even though it is weird that she wants to come. It seems that she uses you to regulate her emotions and you are working on cutting the chord in this regard.

[livednlearned]

She wants to go too. So weird.

It makes sense when you think about things from a BPD perspective.

She may be identifying more as a sibling to her kids, and to you. Not that this is apparent to her.

Murray Bowen of family systems theory talks about a scale of differentiation of self.

People with BPD traits seem to be people who have poor differentiation of self. Which means their boundaries aren't really there. Which means they don't have a stable sense of how to relate to themselves and others, or inhabit normal roles or normal behaviors.

Especially when they're operating beyond capacity (like during a divorce).

That's the wear and tear we experience. Trying to hold up boundaries for two people, when one is hellbent on not having any at all.

You have to do all the work and then some.

[At Bay]

Re: mixed messages.

When my son was in your circumstances, I recall someone telling me that his wife loves him as much as she can, but she doesn’t love him very much. One doesn’t abuse anyone who he or she cares about, and for whom one has a responsibility to be considerate. New definition for love, per my former therapist. She cleared my head a lot with that information, i.e., don't believe everything you hear, as you know already.

My son was advised to be sure and not give the children mixed messages about continuing activities as though nothing has changed.

One exception he made soon after they moved out of marital home, so that he could paint it for resale and let a contractor in to replace the shower, was at Christmas time. When she was picking up the kids Thanksgiving afternoon (they share a day like Mother's and Father's days, a major holiday, she had put their oldest daughter up to asking him about mom staying in rental house with all of them on Christmas Eve. She had moved into her parents’ home and while he was at work, she had put all her clothes into his rental home’s closets. (He told her to get wardrobe boxes and put everything in his garage, instead, or they would be on her parents’ front porch.) Back to Christmas Eve, she could spend the night in his rental house if she slept on the electrical pop-up bed (closes back up to the size of a suitcase), downstairs, and he’d be upstairs. So things could be a little different only at first, but no way would he have taken her on a trip, especially to his parents’ home. Nightmare on any street.

[AlleyOop23]

Hello all. Still making my way in all this. Ups and downs good days and bad. Divorce continues. No regrets. Thought I’d write. Thank you for all your support. I know you’re here and that’s still a comfort.

[kells76]

Hi AlleyOop23, good to hear back from you. Makes sense that it's a mix of good and bad days.

If your trip already happened, I hope it went OK and that you and the kids were able to have some positive times together