First Post: Spouse with worsening Triggers and False Accusations (Long)

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi All,

I am a middle aged male and I think my spouse has undiagnosed BPD... I have been trying to understand what is going on for so long (we have been married 25+ years). The stuff on 'splitting' was like a revelation to me. No one else seems to understand...

From the outside, in public, she always seems normal. In fact, I always come off as the introverted, difficult/unlikable one... She has related comments to me from at least two of her friends asking "what are you doing with him" (she revealed this in anger to be cruel but I believe it). I'm deeply conflict avoidant and have difficulty maintaining friendships. I know I have some kind of issue(s) too and this has played into our relationship and me not being able to set any boundaries or feel like I can stand up.

Anyway, the thing that caused me to seek this forum out is that things have gotten much, much, worse for us the past couple of years or so, in spite of us riding this roller coaster together for so long.

My wife has always had severe trust issues and has always been prone to interpreting other people's actions and then accepting only her conclusions as to what was meant.

Her triggers are in bad state right now; there are several women in our neighborhood that she has convinced herself I "have a thing" for. Whenever we are out walking (she insists on walking in the neighborhood for exercise) if our paths cross or if we are in the car going out to eat and we see one of these other people out or on the road, there is a very high chance she will get angry with me that day. We'll finish our walk or go out to eat and come back and she will be quiet with me or whatever in public but nothing big. Then, when we get home, I'll get the silent treatment for some period and then eventually it comes out when we are alone and we have a blow out.

She will typically have some kind of crazy description of what I did 'wrong' and then will go over this long laundry list of similar sins I have committed over the last 12 years.

For example: we are riding in the car to go out to eat, she is driving and I was looking down at the floor, thinking. We get home and she rails at me for "looking down" saying I am trying to convince people that we have problems, or to look like I might be available, etc. It also comes out that she saw one of these neighbors she's worried about on the road on the way out of the neighborhood as we are leaving.

I, of course, JADE in the argument... "Do you realize how nuts that would be as a strategy to convince someone of anything? Who looks inside someone else's vehicle as you whiz by and even thinks like that? You are misinterpreting my actions, how is this justified? etc" At that point we are off to the races and she starts bringing up all the "wrongs" I have committed in the relationship; this library of sins keeps getting added to and can go back decades. Some real some imaginary, but ironically most of the big tickets are literally imagined things along these lines.

When I confront her with my version of the truth she often says that something like "You're lying and that just makes me angrier" and it usually throws gas on the fire. A few of these arguments have gotten defused but usually they become full on black out rage fits.
 
In her relentless onslaught eventually my will breaks and I'm pleading with her to "forgive me" and end up promising to never look down in the car again.

Truth is, none of our fights ever resolve. It is usually just me trying to justify myself and telling her I am sorry that what I did upset her but it wasn't on purpose and I will try to not do what set her off; but that is not really the end. We usually go to bed angry and I walk on eggshells around her and at some point within 24 hours, she just will start talking to me again and acting like normal and then it is "I love you", etc; it is like none of it ever happened. In fact, she does not even seem to remember some of the worst/most intense parts of it.

She gets triggered by things other than the neighbor women, of course, and there are often other women she fixates on and accuses me of "trying to get their attention" we can no longer go to my favorite restaurant because there is a "little blonde girl" I am fixated with according to her. Ironically, I have no idea which employee she is even talking about... this often happens, she will rail me with details on stuff I did that involve some person I did not notice or only took partial note of... I have trained myself not to look at pretty women in particular because that'll definitely trigger something but sometimes it does anyway, so we'll get home and I'll have seen the person she's upset about but do not know what she is talking about wrt what I did.

The weird thing is that I can actually take all of this. I can deal with the verbal beat downs for the most part as long as when she recovers she goes back into "I love you so much" mode and she seems to flip back to the version that still loves me within a day of a blow out. This is how we've been able to be married so long.

BUT, the frequency and intensity of has gone up and it has sharply turned upward lately.

This is happening almost every week the last couple of months and the last couple of years she has started to talk about divorcing me during these rage fits. She now brings it up every single time. I have a terrible fear of abandonment. The "D word" is like a nuke for me. I won't even say it to her. I try not to even acknowledge it when she says it.

It often takes me a week or more to recover from a really big fight and I'm starting to feel hopeless with them coming at this frequency.

So now finally I'm here. I don't know if it is too late for the relationship or not. I'm scared to be alone, I'm scared of losing my family life, I don't know what to do.

Thank you to anyone who reads this.

[overwhelmed2]

Hi All,

I am a middle aged male and I think my spouse has undiagnosed BPD... I have been trying to understand what is going on for so long (we have been married 25+ years). The stuff on 'splitting' was like a revelation to me. No one else seems to understand...

From the outside, in public, she always seems normal. In fact, I always come off as the introverted, difficult/unlikable one... She has related comments to me from at least two of her friends asking "what are you doing with him" (she revealed this in anger to be cruel but I believe it). I'm deeply conflict avoidant and have difficulty maintaining friendships. I know I have some kind of issue(s) too and this has played into our relationship and me not being able to set any boundaries or feel like I can stand up.

Anyway, the thing that caused me to seek this forum out is that things have gotten much, much, worse for us the past couple of years or so, in spite of us riding this roller coaster together for so long.

My wife has always had severe trust issues and has always been prone to interpreting other people's actions and then accepting only her conclusions as to what was meant.

Her triggers are in bad state right now; there are several women in our neighborhood that she has convinced herself I "have a thing" for. Whenever we are out walking (she insists on walking in the neighborhood for exercise) if our paths cross or if we are in the car going out to eat and we see one of these other people out or on the road, there is a very high chance she will get angry with me that day. We'll finish our walk or go out to eat and come back and she will be quiet with me or whatever in public but nothing big. Then, when we get home, I'll get the silent treatment for some period and then eventually it comes out when we are alone and we have a blow out.

She will typically have some kind of crazy description of what I did 'wrong' and then will go over this long laundry list of similar sins I have committed over the last 12 years.

For example: we are riding in the car to go out to eat, she is driving and I was looking down at the floor, thinking. We get home and she rails at me for "looking down" saying I am trying to convince people that we have problems, or to look like I might be available, etc. It also comes out that she saw one of these neighbors she's worried about on the road on the way out of the neighborhood as we are leaving.

I, of course, JADE in the argument... "Do you realize how nuts that would be as a strategy to convince someone of anything? Who looks inside someone else's vehicle as you whiz by and even thinks like that? You are misinterpreting my actions, how is this justified? etc" At that point we are off to the races and she starts bringing up all the "wrongs" I have committed in the relationship; this library of sins keeps getting added to and can go back decades. Some real some imaginary, but ironically most of the big tickets are literally imagined things along these lines.

When I confront her with my version of the truth she often says that something like "You're lying and that just makes me angrier" and it usually throws gas on the fire. A few of these arguments have gotten defused but usually they become full on black out rage fits.
 
In her relentless onslaught eventually my will breaks and I'm pleading with her to "forgive me" and end up promising to never look down in the car again.

Truth is, none of our fights ever resolve. It is usually just me trying to justify myself and telling her I am sorry that what I did upset her but it wasn't on purpose and I will try to not do what set her off; but that is not really the end. We usually go to bed angry and I walk on eggshells around her and at some point within 24 hours, she just will start talking to me again and acting like normal and then it is "I love you", etc; it is like none of it ever happened. In fact, she does not even seem to remember some of the worst/most intense parts of it.

She gets triggered by things other than the neighbor women, of course, and there are often other women she fixates on and accuses me of "trying to get their attention" we can no longer go to my favorite restaurant because there is a "little blonde girl" I am fixated with according to her. Ironically, I have no idea which employee she is even talking about... this often happens, she will rail me with details on stuff I did that involve some person I did not notice or only took partial note of... I have trained myself not to look at pretty women in particular because that'll definitely trigger something but sometimes it does anyway, so we'll get home and I'll have seen the person she's upset about but do not know what she is talking about wrt what I did.

The weird thing is that I can actually take all of this. I can deal with the verbal beat downs for the most part as long as when she recovers she goes back into "I love you so much" mode and she seems to flip back to the version that still loves me within a day of a blow out. This is how we've been able to be married so long.

BUT, the frequency and intensity of has gone up and it has sharply turned upward lately.

This is happening almost every week the last couple of months and the last couple of years she has started to talk about divorcing me during these rage fits. She now brings it up every single time. I have a terrible fear of abandonment. The "D word" is like a nuke for me. I won't even say it to her. I try not to even acknowledge it when she says it.

It often takes me a week or more to recover from a really big fight and I'm starting to feel hopeless with them coming at this frequency.

So now finally I'm here. I don't know if it is too late for the relationship or not. I'm scared to be alone, I'm scared of losing my family life, I don't know what to do.

Thank you to anyone who reads this.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[overwhelmed2]

I guess what I am most anxious about right now is how to deal with:

• Direct accusations/interpretations of my accusations that are, in essence, delusional
• Deal with the anxiety and terror I feel at the thought that my wife is going to/wants to divorce me

I'm in a state of despair... I find myself wishing I could just sleep and go into a coma.

[AppeaseNoMore]

Reading this was quite painful for me, as so much of what you describe echoes what I have experienced. The triggers are of course different, but the broad brush strokes are eerily similar:

• Her picking fights over implausible interpretations of your actions
• Getting more angry because you deny it, eg "I'm not really angry any more about what you did, just about how you keep denying it and defending yourself"
• Bringing up an ever expanding laundry list of past arguments
• You feeling like giving in on technical points is the only way forward -- trying to find something that doesn't feel like a fake confession and yet will mollify her
• The feeling that the frequency has become out of control. I could also tolerate it when it was occasional, with long stretches of good times in between, but not when it's constant
• Not wanting to separate, because of a memory of the good times

I'm still in the same situation as you, struggling with these issues. I'm trying not to JADE but I find it really hard to walk the line of validating without her either thinking that I'm agreeing, or getting upset by what she sees as a fauxpology/weasel wording.

I hope others on here can give some advice, but I just wanted to say you're not alone!

[dtkm]

All of this is very similar to my situation too.  I used to get accused of having affair after affair for things that I still don't understand...I wore a white tank top to work and not a black one, I went out for a walk around the block as my daughter asked me to go with her, my hair was in a pony tail when I got home from work and not when I left for work, it took me 6 minutes to respond to my uBPDh's text when I was at work, the same truck parked in the parking lot at football practice everyday that I did (it was one of the other kid's parent's trucks...how dare a parent drive their child to practice!), it took me 5 minutes to put his laundry away, I didn't turn the light on in the laundry room when I did laundry, the screen was on backwards in the basement window (and hadn't been touched since the builder did so), the security guard at my work looked at his phone when my husband walked into my work, I went into my son's room to say goodnight to him...and the list goes on.  I used to get the divorce threat often...and after several years of that threat my uBPDh had me served divorce papers.  Ultimately, after temporary orders, we reconciled.  The outbursts have continued, but I now know that, while its not what I ultimately want, I could survive a divorce, and have a very good base to start from and a lawyer who has my back at every turn.  Having that mind set, set me free.  While the anxiety does still hit the fan when he goes down the path of screaming about wanting a divorce, I walk away, with the knowledge that nothing that I say in the moment will help the situation.  I don't say a single thing to him, I continue on with what I am doing.  The first couple of times doing this, he followed me, I took out my phone and started to record (showing him I was doing so) and he stopped pretty fast with some under the breath comments made.  (I then store this just incase it is needed in the future).  This is the only thing that has worked for me.  Its not fun, and I def had to and continue to survive some extinction bursts that are really not fun!  But...while the divorce threats still happen, they are way less than before......and I will say that I now enjoy (dare I say look forward to) the time when he won't speak to me or "my kids" as we can do us and not have to worry about what the next accusation will be...or that we are not allowed to speak at dinner...etc!  One of the best pieces of advice I have read on here is that you don't have to ride the roller coaster of your disordered partner.  I often said that I was getting off, but I never did, until I read that and decided that it was ok to be happy when he was "mad" and it was ok to be mad when he was "over the top happy".  I was so on top of his moods that I lost track of my own emotions.  I will say that finding myself again, has made life so much better for my whole family.  Its not easy and in reality is something that I have to work on every day, but it has made life so much more bearable for me and my kids!         

[Pook075]

So now finally I'm here. I don't know if it is too late for the relationship or not. I'm scared to be alone, I'm scared of losing my family life, I don't know what to do.

Thank you to anyone who reads this.

First off, welcome to the forum and I am so sorry you're going through this.  Much of it echoed my previous relationship as well (25 year marriage) and it was a similar ramp-up towards the end.

To answer your question directly, it is not too late for the relationship.  But things have to change quickly, and you're the one that's going to have to do the changing. What you describe, in simple terms, is abuse.  You're being abused and you accept it because you love your abuser. 

That's not okay, and you absolutely must stop walking on eggshells in these situations.

Your wife is doing this out of fears of abandonment, which is common with BPD.  She accuses you because it's easier than saying what she really feels, which is that she doesn't stack up to all the other women she notices.  It's your job to put that to rest, to stop arguing over her disordered thinking, and simply say what she wants to hear.  You love her and you choose her over any of the women in the neighborhood or at your favorite restaurant.

Question- have you considered personal counseling?  It would do you really well to talk this out with a professional and get some personal guidance.  Most here have gone that route and it really opens up our viewpoints on what is and isn't okay.

[overwhelmed2]

OMG. Thank you so much for the replies here everyone. I cannot even articulate what it is like to finally not feel completely alone in this. I am literally in tears... In fact, I don't think I can write anymore just this second... but just had to say how deeply I appreciate the thoughtful and helpful input. Will try to collect myself and respond to specific replies.

[overwhelmed2]

I am going to try to respond in order:
@AppeaseNoMore
Thanks for the succinct summary, it's absolutely spot on. I can tell that you have definitely experienced a very similar dynamic.

This one in particular is super hard for me:

• Getting more angry because you deny it, eg "I'm not really angry any more about what you did, just about how you keep denying it and defending yourself"

As a career STEM person; I am pretty logical and capable of rationally responding in these events but when I start to tear apart the 'crazy' with a reasoned argument, I get "Oh yes, of course I'm wrong and you're always right! I am NOT crazy, I KNOW what I saw! Denying it just tells me that you are a liar and you always have been".

So, this JADEing thing, it just absolutely throws fuel on her rage and things will escalate super quick. The verbal attack here can be incredibly fierce.

Her absolute certainty in her conclusions that are based on chaining together individually unlikely events in this bizarre paranoid reasoning is just mind blowing. I'd always hoped that when she was calmer (she's a smart person) she would kind of chew on some of what I said, and be like "yeah, I guess I can't read his mind, how do I know he wasn't actually looking out the window instead of at that woman, etc" would somehow eat away at some of the downright crazy items on the laundry list...

So, I guess that is the immediate thing I am focused on. Our conflict comes as direct accusations that are not reality based. I have no idea how to defuse this. I cannot just walk away and I nearly fall apart emotionally when this happens. There's no way I can concentrate on anything else until I at least feel she has calmed down.

In the long term my worry is here in the second parts of your summary:

• Bringing up an ever expanding laundry list of past arguments
• You feeling like giving in on technical points is the only way forward -- trying to find something that doesn't feel like a fake confession and yet will mollify her

The feeling that the frequency has become out of control. I could also tolerate it when it was occasional, with long stretches of good times in between, but not when it's constant[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]

So much this. You definitely seem to 'get' it.

The laundry list scares me. It feels like this resentment is building from these past events is building in her and I fear the lack of resolution will destroy the marriage if we cannot stop at least revisiting them constantly. Which means on some level she has to at least let go of them if not admit she may be wrong. I try to get these things out of mind quickly whenever she tries to reraise them, because there is absolutely no winning for me when they are brought up. I dunno what she thinks she is accomplishing by holding onto that I think she is trying to establish precedent for me being a liar/philanderer/etc and to her this is all somehow become tangible evidence that I am not trustworthy.

Sad part is that often I am 'outed' in these arguments as withholding things from her, etc. I am deeply tuned to her moods and will omit things from discussion or paint things in a way that is pleasing to her to avoid triggering her... I guess trying to make progress there would be a start.

Thanks again for the response and empathy.

[overwhelmed2]

@dtkm
Thanks for detailing some of the kind of things you have been accused of and experienced. I am sorry that you have had to suffer through something like this, also; but it does help to know that I am not alone in suffering these wild claims.

This part of your post chilled me when I read it:

I used to get the divorce threat often...and after several years of that threat my uBPDh had me served divorce papers. 

My wife has made lots of empty threats in anger and she only started using the D-word with regularity the last two years or so... but in our last conflict (last Saturday) she was actually calm when she brought it up and it terrified me enough to post here. The trigger was something small but usually she says this in anger during a verbal assault.

I am scared that some point, I'll have found out she has talked to an attorney and there's nothing I can do to stop her from breaking our family apart in unfounded anger and resentment.

That said, it is amazing to me that you did 'reconcile' and are still together. It sounds like you are much further along the curve to taking back your life and becoming yourself again. That is definitely a hopeful though on this end!

I think I'm going reread this part of your post for a few times and try to get it really sink in because I think there is some good direction here:

One of the best pieces of advice I have read on here is that you don't have to ride the roller coaster of your disordered partner.  I often said that I was getting off, but I never did, until I read that and decided that it was ok to be happy when he was "mad" and it was ok to be mad when he was "over the top happy".  I was so on top of his moods that I lost track of my own emotions.  I will say that finding myself again, has made life so much better for my whole family.  Its not easy and in reality is something that I have to work on every day, but it has made life so much more bearable for me and my kids!         

At this point, I have become a virtual slave to my wife's emotions. I cannot be happy unless she is happy right now. I've lost a lot of my identity at this point. On some level it even validates some of her criticism that I am not who I used to be.

Thanks for the ray of hope here!

My kids are getting to where they are going to leave... I have always struggled in maintaining relationships and I have isolated from my long term friends and family on some level in part thanks to this BPD dynamic. I guess I need to cultivate some sort of refuge if I am going to try to "do my own thing" when she is upset with me.

[overwhelmed2]

@Pook075
Thanks for the welcome! I am so grateful this place exists and you kind folks are here right now!

Thanks for this:

To answer your question directly, it is not too late for the relationship.  But things have to change quickly, and you're the one that's going to have to do the changing. What you describe, in simple terms, is abuse.  You're being abused and you accept it because you love your abuser.

That's not okay, and you absolutely must stop walking on eggshells in these situations.

I appreciate your directness here. On some level I've known this for a while but it is validating to hear that it is not something I should have to tolerate to be a good and loving husband. I think you are right that I need to reassert myself before it is too late and regardless

Part of the reason I am in such terror is probably twofold, I suspect it is partially do to with preexisting poor self esteem and also with the erosion of my own self from constantly giving ground without any boundaries.

This part is interesting:

It's your job to put that to rest, to stop arguing over her disordered thinking, and simply say what she wants to hear.  You love her and you choose her over any of the women in the neighborhood or at your favorite restaurant.

I would definitely be open to any ideas on that front.

FWIW, I am super verbal with her and sometimes I worry that I am the one 'love-bombing' her. So on the 'words' front I *think* I am already doing a lot of that. It is easy because it is sincere and genuine (in spite of all this drama/conflict).

She sometimes during these arguments in fact will say stuff like: "I don't believe all the nice things you are always saying because, you tell me how beautiful I am and then the next thing I know you are following some lady around at the airport".

On the actions front, I could probably do better but I am not sure what to do. We actually talk like crazy (which is mostly her talking and me listening, but I try to be engaged). In anger, she often accuses me of checking out too much from the family. I.e. if I get free time I will go in my office and do something alone. But honestly, I cherish alone time and get almost none.

Anyway, I guess I'm interested if there are additional ideas for soothing her anxiety. I'd love to make some kind of positive step forward, unbidden.

Re Questions:

Question- have you considered personal counseling?  It would do you really well to talk this out with a professional and get some personal guidance.  Most here have gone that route and it really opens up our viewpoints on what is and isn't okay.

Yes... I have gone so far as to look into my employer's mental health benefits and try to find someone/someplace that will do a zoom type appointment or something.

She tracks my location and has access to my computer, phone, etc and at least to start I would be fearful of this move causing even more conflict that I am desperate to avoid; so my hope would be to at least start it on my own without her input or having it affect our current situation.

[kells76]

Hey, adding one more voice to the

Sounds like you're really in the thick of it. You're with people who truly "get it" and have lived it, like AppeaseNoMore, dtkm, and Pook075 have shared about their experiences.

You and your W didn't get to this point overnight, so it can take time to really turn things around. Sometimes things do "get worse" before (and while) they get better -- just so you're aware that after you try something new, if things "go south" for a moment, you didn't do something wrong.

These parts of what you shared really stood out to me:

Her absolute certainty in her conclusions that are based on chaining together individually unlikely events in this bizarre paranoid reasoning is just mind blowing. I'd always hoped that when she was calmer (she's a smart person) she would kind of chew on some of what I said, and be like "yeah, I guess I can't read his mind, how do I know he wasn't actually looking out the window instead of at that woman, etc" would somehow eat away at some of the downright crazy items on the laundry list...

So, I guess that is the immediate thing I am focused on. Our conflict comes as direct accusations that are not reality based. I have no idea how to defuse this. I cannot just walk away and I nearly fall apart emotionally when this happens. There's no way I can concentrate on anything else until I at least feel she has calmed down.

and

She sometimes during these arguments in fact will say stuff like: "I don't believe all the nice things you are always saying because, you tell me how beautiful I am and then the next thing I know you are following some lady around at the airport".

On the actions front, I could probably do better but I am not sure what to do.

Sounds like lots of your conflicts start when she makes a non-reality based accusation. That's pretty typical around here.

One thing to keep in mind about BPD is that it involves dysregulated, poorly managed, intense, extreme emotions. pwBPD (persons with BPD) may feel "average" things really extremely, and then on top of that, have poor skills to manage and describe those extreme feelings. Those feelings, which are happening inside your W and may not be connected to anything going on outside of her, may be expressed with extreme words -- like accusations.

Like anyone else, like all human beings, pwBPD want their feelings to be heard and understood. When those extreme feelings are expressed in extreme ways (with accusations, blame, yelling, etc), it's hard for us to want to engage with those feelings. We want to defend ourselves! But that is like throwing gas on a fire -- the pwBPD still feels unheard and may escalate, in a low-skill attempt to be understood.

We can break the cycle by working to understand the feelings behind their words.

That approach can be described as true emotional validation.

True validation isn't

agreeing with your W's accusations
breaking it to her gently
being really, really calm
not saying anything, but fuming inside
saying whatever it takes to get her off your back
thinking her feelings are irrational, but nodding your head
trying to cheer her up
trying to change how she feels
"pointing things out" to her
proving you're right and she's wrong
engaging with the "facts" in her statement
walking on eggshells
keeping the peace

True emotional validation is identifying the feelings that might be going on behind her words, putting yourself in her shoes -- how would it feel, to you, to feel that way -- and connecting with her that way.

Fortunately, she gave you a validation target here:

Her: "I don't believe all the nice things you are always saying because, you tell me how beautiful I am and then the next thing I know you are following some lady around at the airport".

in the past, you probably would've... appeased? agreed? proven her wrong? argued? panicked? all of the above?

True validation frees you from trying to fix anything or defend yourself. It lets you focus on how she feels, so she feels understood, and may be less inclined to escalate.

What if your response looked something like this?

Her: "I don't believe all the nice things you are always saying because, you tell me how beautiful I am and then the next thing I know you are following some lady around at the airport".

You: "Wow, that would be so painful to not believe you're wonderful".

or

You: "That would suck to feel like I was attracted to someone else".

You aren't agreeing she's correct -- but you are noticing how it might feel, to feel like your spouse was interested in someone else. That would hurt... right?

I know this is a lot -- so I'll pause there. I know the rest of the group has a lot of support to give and can talk through true validation with you, too.

Hang in there -- it's a long road, but there is hope to have a more livable life.

[Pook075]

Kells essentially wrote what I had planned on responding with, so I'll just add that I completely agree.

The only thing I'd add is that her words and her emotions don't always add up, due to being dysregulated.

For example, I was cutting the lawn yesterday and I always try to get super close to trees since it's less to weed whack.  We have some pine trees on the corner of the property though that I should have trimmed back years ago, with a bunch of low-lying branches. 

Almost every time, I'll try to drive my mower under the branches slowly while trying to gently lift them up...and the result always involves me bleeding in some type of way.  Yesterday it was my left leg; two decent slashes from knee to ankle.

So as I'm trying to limbo under the pine tree, I cry out in pain with a few not so nice words.  Why did I cuss?  Maybe it helps me feel better in the moment, I'm not sure, because ultimately I was mad at myself for doing the same stupid thing a 30th time and getting the same result.

The thing to notice here is that I was in pain...I got hurt...but my initial reaction was anger.  That kinda makes sense because you've probably been in that situation and injured yourself via stupidity, so you can relate with the entire story.  To an outsider looking in though, it would appear that I was trying to fight a pine tree and losing...it would be pretty perplexing to say the least.

Your wife's words...you were checking that woman out...don't come in the moment.  Instead, she get silent and stews on it for awhile, which allows her to reach an illogical conclusion.  Then hours later, once you're home and secluded, she erupts.

Stay with me here, we're almost there to the "aha" moment.

The problem wasn't the random woman you may or may not have seen.  The problem didn't happen at home either when she exploded and accused you.  The real problem in all of this is when she felt insecure and went silent.  You mentioned seeing her mood change....and you probably thought, "Oh boy....what is it now?" 

But that was the moment to speak up, the point and time where you could have stopped all that disordered thinking from spiraling out of control with a few simple words.  That's when the validation would be the most powerful, because it can stop her from going down the rabbit hole and just getting on with the day. 

And you don't need to know what you did wrong either, because it's not about the words- it's never about the words!  It's about the emotions behind the words. 

That's why I cussed at a tree...the pain (and my own stupidity) caused anger.  But for me with a relatively healthy mind, that anger came and went in the span of a second.  For your wife, that anger gets trapped and builds while she's silent, replaying all kinds of unhealthy stuff that's eventually going to boil over.  That's why you react to the emotions and soothe them as soon as they're visible, regardless of the situation.

I hope that helps!

[jaded7]

Hi All,

I am a middle aged male and I think my spouse has undiagnosed BPD... I have been trying to understand what is going on for so long (we have been married 25+ years). The stuff on 'splitting' was like a revelation to me. No one else seems to understand...

From the outside, in public, she always seems normal. In fact, I always come off as the introverted, difficult/unlikable one... She has related comments to me from at least two of her friends asking "what are you doing with him" (she revealed this in anger to be cruel but I believe it). I'm deeply conflict avoidant and have difficulty maintaining friendships. I know I have some kind of issue(s) too and this has played into our relationship and me not being able to set any boundaries or feel like I can stand up.

Anyway, the thing that caused me to seek this forum out is that things have gotten much, much, worse for us the past couple of years or so, in spite of us riding this roller coaster together for so long.

My wife has always had severe trust issues and has always been prone to interpreting other people's actions and then accepting only her conclusions as to what was meant.

Her triggers are in bad state right now; there are several women in our neighborhood that she has convinced herself I "have a thing" for. Whenever we are out walking (she insists on walking in the neighborhood for exercise) if our paths cross or if we are in the car going out to eat and we see one of these other people out or on the road, there is a very high chance she will get angry with me that day. We'll finish our walk or go out to eat and come back and she will be quiet with me or whatever in public but nothing big. Then, when we get home, I'll get the silent treatment for some period and then eventually it comes out when we are alone and we have a blow out.

She will typically have some kind of crazy description of what I did 'wrong' and then will go over this long laundry list of similar sins I have committed over the last 12 years.

For example: we are riding in the car to go out to eat, she is driving and I was looking down at the floor, thinking. We get home and she rails at me for "looking down" saying I am trying to convince people that we have problems, or to look like I might be available, etc. It also comes out that she saw one of these neighbors she's worried about on the road on the way out of the neighborhood as we are leaving.

I, of course, JADE in the argument... "Do you realize how nuts that would be as a strategy to convince someone of anything? Who looks inside someone else's vehicle as you whiz by and even thinks like that? You are misinterpreting my actions, how is this justified? etc" At that point we are off to the races and she starts bringing up all the "wrongs" I have committed in the relationship; this library of sins keeps getting added to and can go back decades. Some real some imaginary, but ironically most of the big tickets are literally imagined things along these lines.

When I confront her with my version of the truth she often says that something like "You're lying and that just makes me angrier" and it usually throws gas on the fire. A few of these arguments have gotten defused but usually they become full on black out rage fits.
 
In her relentless onslaught eventually my will breaks and I'm pleading with her to "forgive me" and end up promising to never look down in the car again.

Truth is, none of our fights ever resolve. It is usually just me trying to justify myself and telling her I am sorry that what I did upset her but it wasn't on purpose and I will try to not do what set her off; but that is not really the end. We usually go to bed angry and I walk on eggshells around her and at some point within 24 hours, she just will start talking to me again and acting like normal and then it is "I love you", etc; it is like none of it ever happened. In fact, she does not even seem to remember some of the worst/most intense parts of it.

She gets triggered by things other than the neighbor women, of course, and there are often other women she fixates on and accuses me of "trying to get their attention" we can no longer go to my favorite restaurant because there is a "little blonde girl" I am fixated with according to her. Ironically, I have no idea which employee she is even talking about... this often happens, she will rail me with details on stuff I did that involve some person I did not notice or only took partial note of... I have trained myself not to look at pretty women in particular because that'll definitely trigger something but sometimes it does anyway, so we'll get home and I'll have seen the person she's upset about but do not know what she is talking about wrt what I did.

The weird thing is that I can actually take all of this. I can deal with the verbal beat downs for the most part as long as when she recovers she goes back into "I love you so much" mode and she seems to flip back to the version that still loves me within a day of a blow out. This is how we've been able to be married so long.

BUT, the frequency and intensity of has gone up and it has sharply turned upward lately.

This is happening almost every week the last couple of months and the last couple of years she has started to talk about divorcing me during these rage fits. She now brings it up every single time. I have a terrible fear of abandonment. The "D word" is like a nuke for me. I won't even say it to her. I try not to even acknowledge it when she says it.

It often takes me a week or more to recover from a really big fight and I'm starting to feel hopeless with them coming at this frequency.

So now finally I'm here. I don't know if it is too late for the relationship or not. I'm scared to be alone, I'm scared of losing my family life, I don't know what to do.

Thank you to anyone who reads this.

Holy cow. I can only say that this is very close to my experience with my ex. A strong element of 'mind reading' and telling me what my intentions were in some action or even offer to help her with something. Always, always my intentions were bad.

Offer to take over driving on a long hot day "that's patronizing"
Offer to go to the grocery store for our camping trip "you're just trying to cover your a**, you don't want to go to the grocery store."
Send a text to ask why she's not communicating/responding "you need mental health help, that feels controlling!"

etc.

I can offer no solutions, but just wanted to affirm that this is not uncommon and is profoundly confusing. And you have learned that JADEing is a very quick way to then create another huge 'fight'. The more you defend yourself against the accusations, the worse it gets.

My very first visit here I learned about JADE and why is doesn't work. So we end up giving in and apologizing for things we didn't intend/mean/say/think.

Just wanted to offer some validation that your experience is not unusual. Many, many good people here to help you navigate this. Like you, I loved her in spit of these things, but I was so confused most of the time. I could not tell what was 'going on'....is she mad at me? Did I do something?

I hope you get all the help you need here.

[overwhelmed2]

@kells76
Thanks for the welcome and the insights! I really appreciate the input, re validation. This is fairly new to me... I've listened to several audiobooks about relationships on my commute to work over the last few years and have learned that a lot of my gut reactions are counter productive and that my response and communication needs to be more empathetic.

In the past I had tried both extremes in trying to respond to these situations, having admitted to things I hadn't done because 'your lying just makes me more angry' and also at 180 degrees: trying to call her out and tell her she was 'crazy' which I now understand is probably the worst possible response because it is the ultimate invalidation...

I try to talk in terms of her feelings and be empathetic but I think, while that is an improvement in direction I am still invalidating her based on what you and @pook075 are saying.

This part is gold for me:

True validation frees you from trying to fix anything or defend yourself. It lets you focus on how she feels, so she feels understood, and may be less inclined to escalate.

What if your response looked something like this?
<example>

I am going to follow the links and learn more about how to do this in the context of my relationship. I do not know how/if she will respond but this feels like a tool I can use to make an honest stab at getting some kind handle on things before they spiral completely past the point where there is no recovery for us.

It's definitely outside my normal communication skill set. It's important that I find some way to interact with her during these episodes that does not add more fuel to future fires or breed more resentment.

[overwhelmed2]

@pook075

Thanks for taking the time to respond again and giving such a great example! That makes tons of sense and I can relate to expressing anger like that... this deifnitely gives some insight.

And this part is super thought provoking:

The problem wasn't the random woman you may or may not have seen.  The problem didn't happen at home either when she exploded and accused you.  The real problem in all of this is when she felt insecure and went silent.  You mentioned seeing her mood change....and you probably thought, "Oh boy....what is it now?" 

I know this feeling super well. Like others trying to make this kind of relationship work/better; I am hyper-vigilant w.r.t. her emotional state. I have developed the ability to detect a change in her mood very quickly/early as I am constantly taking her emotional temperature so to speak, no matter what we are doing.

I like the way you are framing this as an opportunity to potentially pre-soothe her worries/concerns/disordered thinking.  Even if it does not derail an event completely maybe I can somehow use this as a strategy to improve things.

Main barrier there is that whenever this happens, right now, I am already starting to fall apart. As soon as get any kind of sign something is amiss, I know a blow out/accusation is coming. I know I've "done something wrong". And the irony is, in this anxiety and fear of conflict that I have (which is something I need to work on); my behavior changes too. I am in 'doghouse' mode and will give her extra attention/concern but I think it often comes off to her as 'guilt' ("yup he knows I caught him out, he was trying to get attention/scoping/etc").

I need to think about some way to cut that off in advance and to also somehow get a handle on my own emotions and feeling of panic/anxiety to stop throwing fuel on the fire.

 

[overwhelmed2]

@jaded7

It sounds like you know exactly what I am talking about and have had a similar experience. I am sorry on the one hand that others have had similar difficulties but am thankful to know that I am not alone, so thank you for this.

There has been a lot of pain in that isolation. Almost all of my close relationships have either been sacrificed or been compromised. It's made this fear that we are in a downward spiral and I am going to end up alone, late in life; with my kinds being the only folks who are still likely to be willing to be there at all.

As things have escalated the last few years I have learned the truth of what you say here:

I can offer no solutions, but just wanted to affirm that this is not uncommon and is profoundly confusing. And you have learned that JADEing is a very quick way to then create another huge 'fight'. The more you defend yourself against the accusations, the worse it gets.

Like you, I have tried appeasing and standing ground but neither seem to work... I am going to try to get my head around this 'validating' concept and see if I can somehow implement it in our situation.

One thing that I'll have to sort out is how to deal with a direct accusation in a way that is not so much responding directly in kind to the facts of the matter. That is super unintuitive to me right now.

[Pook075]

Main barrier there is that whenever this happens, right now, I am already starting to fall apart. As soon as get any kind of sign something is amiss, I know a blow out/accusation is coming. I know I've "done something wrong".

I remember a neighbor from years ago that was absolutely terrified of dogs.  I had a lovable lab mix that wouldn't hurt a fly, but every time the neighbor saw the god outside (just laying around or gently playing with the kids), she would scream in terror and run towards the house.

And guess what happened?  That alpha instinct in the back of my dog's brain kicked in, so she'd jump up and start chasing the woman.  EVERY DARN TIME!

Why?  Because my pup sensed the fear and knew it wasn't normal.

Humans do that as well, especially when someone is hyper-sensitive of their emotions.  Like your wife.  You go into "oh shoot panic mode" and her brain instantly senses it, throwing her into a tailspin. 

Remember, you an I...we're mostly logic with some emotion mixed in.  Women on  average are a little more emotional, a little less logical.  But people with mental illness (men or women), it's almost 100% emotion and very little logic when they're triggered.  That means everything is heightened emotionally, the good and the bad.

Now think about what you just said.  She seems off, and you react...you tense up.  What would that do to her emotions in the moment?

Most of us never understood any of this until it was too late.  So I really hope you can see it and learn from it to diffuse tough situations.  Because think about it, when she explodes, she's at a 10/10.  But if you catch these things earlier and can validate her emotions, then maybe she gets to a 6/10 emotionally as you're trying to offer support and understanding.  Big difference.  Very big. 

But if you tense up, now she's stressed about whatever and also wondering why you're giving her the cold shoulder.  And all those abandonment fears come boiling up to the surface.  Maybe they stew for minutes...or hours.  But that's how you get to the explosion.  It is somewhat in your control to avoid that if you spot it and react appropriately (validating her emotions).

What does that mean?  If she's sad...you know what that feels like and you know how to cheer her up.  You relate to that feeling and show kindness, empathy, etc. much like you would with a small child.  Be calm, reassuring, and don't freak out (even though she's starting to freak out).

I hope that helps!

[jaded7]

Like you, I have tried appeasing and standing ground but neither seem to work... I am going to try to get my head around this 'validating' concept and see if I can somehow implement it in our situation.

One thing that I'll have to sort out is how to deal with a direct accusation in a way that is not so much responding directly in kind to the facts of the matter. That is super unintuitive to me right now.

I know, this is really hard to wrap your head around, because you don't think this way (I would guess), and I know I don't. If I were to bring up with a partner something they did, it would be done because they did something real and I would bring it up with a soft start, and in love, so we think that our partners are operating from the same place. To be open and vulnerable, in order to have a real relationship.

We believe they would do the same, in love and with the goal of deepening and bettering the relationship.

I've heard this called projection of our OWN beliefs and ways of relating onto the the partner.

If the accusation is not correct, and our partner points that out to us, we would change our mind and likely apologize.

So that's what we do with JADEing, pointing out why it's not true or accurate, or that wasn't what I did or I was thinking. Believing they will change their approach then once they know the truth.

But that doesn't work with and partner with BPD.

So yes, it's very difficult.

[overwhelmed2]

@pook075

Now think about what you just said.  She seems off, and you react...you tense up.  What would that do to her emotions in the moment?

Yup. I absolutely know she senses my 'uh oh, she's registered something I am going to get railed at for when we are in private' reaction and actually adds this to the pile of 'evidence' her brain is manufacturing for whatever it is I have supposedly done and is actually telling her brain to 'attack'.

Most of us never understood any of this until it was too late.  So I really hope you can see it and learn from it to diffuse tough situations.  Because think about it, when she explodes, she's at a 10/10.  But if you catch these things earlier and can validate her emotions, then maybe she gets to a 6/10 emotionally as you're trying to offer support and understanding.  Big difference.  Very big. 

Yes, this is my hope... we have been together long enough, that I understand and accept that I cannot fundamentally change her and that she will not willingly try to change because in her eyes it is everyone else who is 'wrong' most of the time.

So, I can only get improvement in how things operate based on changing what's in my domain, which is my own behavior; so yeah, I hope I can get the kind of effect you are talking about...

I am not going to see her stop being a challenging person (that'd be a silly/unrealistic/futile expectation); but hopefully, the dynamic between us will not be one of continuing escalation of conflict and building of resentment.

I can tolerate the episodes if there is an adequate recovery time and I don't feel like she has one foot out the door all the time. The combined acceleration and escalation of intensity is what has driven me to despair.

[overwhelmed2]

@jaded7

So that's what we do with JADEing, pointing out why it's not true or accurate, or that wasn't what I did or I was thinking. Believing they will change their approach then once they know the truth.

But that doesn't work with and partner with BPD.

So yes, it's very difficult.

Yes, exactly... this typically starts with something like, "I know you were following that woman when we were at the mall".

That begs to be JADEd... The first thing out of my mouth unless, I can catch it; is always going to be what 90% of other people would "Huh? What woman?" at which point we are off to the races.

Responding with something like "That must have made you feel very upset to think I was following someone; I understand your feelings" feels not only unintuitive and unresponsive, but is likely to just make things worse. I could actually see that just fly by her or get spun as patronizing if she has gone into blind rage mode.

Not that I have found any other kind of response that works...

So, anyway, I guess I am going to have to learn about validation in general and really start with baby steps while I continue to do my best to avoid big triggers.

[kells76]

I think your intuition is right on here:

That begs to be JADEd... The first thing out of my mouth unless, I can catch it; is always going to be what 90% of other people would "Huh? What woman?" at which point we are off to the races.

Responding with something like "That must have made you feel very upset to think I was following someone; I understand your feelings" feels not only unintuitive and unresponsive, but is likely to just make things worse. I could actually see that just fly by her or get spun as patronizing if she has gone into blind rage mode.

I'd probably feel patronized/shut down, too, if my H said that to me.

One thought is that validation is less about saying the literal words "I understand how you feel", or even saying specific words or phrases. That can come across as clinical/"checklist-y" and pwBPD pick up on that. Heck, I pick up on that, when my H (neither of us has a PD) is "going through the motions" versus really trying to relate.

We can slow it down. Sometimes we say too much, too soon, when the pwBPD in our life isn't regulated. Slowing it down a beat, saying less, may help.

An alternative could be:

this typically starts with something like, "I know you were following that woman when we were at the mall".

You: "Oh honey... you thought I was following her?"

Note that tone and body language are critical here. This isn't sarcastic, disbelieving, contemptuous, or trying to set up a great comeback; it's compassionate and curious.

Let's play out a worst/worse case scenario a little bit more:

Her: "I know you were following that woman when we were at the mall"

You: "Oh honey... you thought I was following her?"

Her: "I don't think you were following her, I know you were following her, and don't try to deny it!"

You: "Wow, that would feel like a betrayal."

Her: This could go a few ways, option 1 is she may at some level feel really good when you validate her, and may agree -- yes, it did feel like you betrayed me -- in which case, you can validate that: "I can only image how devastating that would feel", for example. Option 2 is that she's already on a roll and escalates with verbal abuse. At that point, if it feels like she's just off to the races no matter what, it's OK for you to decline to keep the interaction going, by protecting yourself with boundaries:

"Well, I need to go wash the dog, I'll be back inside in an hour".

Validation doesn't protect us, it's for healthy connection. Boundaries are what protect us, and learning the interplay between when validation is the tool, and when boundaries are the tool, is important for staying in a BPD relationship.

So, anyway, I guess I am going to have to learn about validation in general and really start with baby steps while I continue to do my best to avoid big triggers.

Baby steps are where we've all started -- you're in good company.

Maybe a baby step challenge for you this week could be practicing saying less -- still validating through body language, attention, and short phrases like "Oh?", or "Oh yeah?", or "Then what happened?", or "Wow... that's a lot", etc. It takes the pressure off of you, of "having to" come up with long, extensive validation paragraphs, and boils it down to the essentials. Could be a place to start?

[Pook075]

I can tolerate the episodes if there is an adequate recovery time and I don't feel like she has one foot out the door all the time. The combined acceleration and escalation of intensity is what has driven me to despair.

I love that several members are "tag-teaming" you with advice, but please let us know if it becomes overwhelming.  Everyone here wants to help and that's what makes this such an awesome community.

The goal here is for the episodes to decrease in both frequency and intensity by doing one simple thing- validating her emotions when she starts to get upset.  Because if you can nip it in the bud right off the bat, then she doesn't go through that huge rollercoaster of emotions and you don't have the drag-out arguments.

Today I had a similar situation to what you describe with my BPD kid.  Long story short, there was tension in her relationship and she's been suicidal for days.  She asked me to come over and almost immediately lashed out at me...not because she was mad at me, but because she was frustrated and hurting and wanting to vent.  I literally had one foot out of the car door before she hit me with that 10/10 emotional explosion.

I looked at her and said, "Baby, I love you and you know that I'm always on your side."  With that one sentence, all the emotion was gone and we had a quiet, stable conversation for the next few hours.

You see, I completely disarmed her because I knew what she wanted to hear and I led with it.  Truthfully, I can't even tell you what she was ranting about because it didn't matter...she just wanted love and acceptance.  That's the goal here with your wife, to get past all the accusations and negative emotions by getting straight to what matters- you love her and you're there for her.

You're looking at this like the problems will always be this extreme, this out of control...but that doesn't have to be true.  That's only true for right now, but it's definitely not the end goal.  The more you build trust and validate in the moment, the less these explosions get completely out of control and make you want to pull your hair out.

I haven't had a heated conversation with my BPD ex in over a year.  And besides today for the first minute or so, I haven't had a heated conversation with my BPD kid in almost 3 years.  But even today, in the worst of it all, the rage was over almost as quick as it began because I validated at the very start and ignored the rest.

I hope this helps and you take it to heart because it works wonders long term.

[overwhelmed2]

@kells76
Thanks for giving a more practical example. This is definitely a new approach to me and this helps make it more relatable.

My gut feeling is that once she has crossed a trigger threshold and we are headed toward blind rage, I am probably not going to stop that freight train. But maybe over time, day to day, cultivating this skill can start to reverse the overall trend of severity and frequency. I don't know what I am going to do if I cannot reverse that trend... feels like my life is unraveling fast.

I also have to find some kind of better strategy for dealing with stuff that is straight up delusional. She keeps dropping the D-bombs on me and I emotionally cave and will literally give in to any demand. I feel under surveillance all the time now (typing this from work computer because she has no access to it).

Part of this is on me because once someone is mad at me I lose my mind.

Re; saying less
Yes, I think I hang myself with words a lot of times. She has this weird set of interpretations that she applies to things and refuses to understand that her interpretation of connotations are not universal (f.ex. 'spend' is a 'bad' word, so if you say "I like spending time with you" she takes that as an insult because 'spending' is a bad thing; so I have learned not to use that word the way I would with others).

She also considers her initial take on meanings of anything said to be objectively correct. She will repeat back stuff I have said over and over that she has interpreted one way but I meant another and because her first take is always immutably correct, you can never say "No, what I meant is <this>"

F.ex: she has this crazy interpretation of this nervous movement I have in my legs (it is like habitual rocking I do sometimes) as 100% == sexual excitement. So, when I unconsciously do this thing, she immediately starts looking for something to be jealous about. I've tried to clarify it with her that this is not what is going on but she won't have it.

Most recently this happened and she couldn't figure what to blame; because we were watching TV and nothing vaguely provactive was on; so she starts probing me with questions and knowing what she was doing I said: "Why can't I just be happy?" meaning: can't the reason I'm doing this be: everything is great? She took this as: "You make me unhappy"... She keeps coming at me with "You even said: Why can't I just be happy?" at least two or three times in every argument. I feel like I am living in upside down world.

Anyway thanks so much. I appreciate not feeling alone in this.

[overwhelmed2]

@pook075:
Definitely appreciate all the input and it is anything but overwhelming. What has been overwhelming has been feeling like I have no one who has any idea what I am going through and no tools to change this downward spiral in this relationship I have sacrificed my adult life to...

So I am definitely interested in hearing the advice and experience of others.

Loving this thought

You're looking at this like the problems will always be this extreme, this out of control...but that doesn't have to be true.  That's only true for right now, but it's definitely not the end goal.  The more you build trust and validate in the moment, the less these explosions get completely out of control and make you want to pull your hair out.

Thanks for that and relating your experience. It makes me hopeful that I can get things back to a point where I can tolerate the challenges and not feel like I am on the brink of losing my identity/self. I've become isolated and feel incapable of standing any ground at all right now.

[Pook075]

Loving this thoughtThanks for that and relating your experience. It makes me hopeful that I can get things back to a point where I can tolerate the challenges and not feel like I am on the brink of losing my identity/self. I've become isolated and feel incapable of standing any ground at all right now.

Think of it this way- surely there's someone in your life that you can't stand.  They said something or did something that you've never gotten over and you're still carrying that grudge.  That's how your spouse feels when she's not validated...like it's something impossible to come back from even though she wants to.

Now think of one of those instances where you did make up with someone.  Did it take a massive, life-changing act like you expected?  Probably not.  In most cases, it's finding common ground and just letting the past go.

For someone with BPD, you do that through validating their feelings.  It's simply saying, "Hey Overwhelmed, I see what you're going through and I can relate to how you feel.  It really stinks.  I just wanted to say that you seem like a good dude and you're handling this the right way."

Being able to relate on stuff we like such as hobbies or sports or whatever is great.  That may be enough for two people to become friends in the real world.  But when you connect on emotional stuff like this, the bond is so much greater and impactful.  That's what she wants...and that's what you want as well.  It's just getting in the process of doing that automatically by listening and starting conversations with empathy.

We're with you friend and we are all on this journey together.

[Elvis42]

Hey everyone.

Overwhelmed2, after reading your post, I can honestly say I know all to well what you are dealing with, its frustrating, aggravating, scary, and so many other emotions all rolled up into one. My situation started out awesome, and has slowly deteriorated ever since. I understand the worsening triggers and accusations, and how they are getting more frequent and almost, dare I say, disturbing. My wife seems to "fly off the handle" as they say, almost hourly, unless she's sleeping and then when she wakes up she's angry about something I did or didn't do, and we haven't lived in the same apartment for almost (4) years. To me its heartbreaking to see someone I love, become this person, who is not the person I fell in love with many years ago. And the comment "from the outside, in public, she always seems normal", We live in a very small town and my wife had people feeling sorry for her because she had to endure life with such a horrible person (me). I actually had people on her "friends" list on Facebook sending me nasty messages about how could I treat such a wonder woman so badly. Its one of the reasons I am no longer on facebook. Until recently she had me convinced everything she said was true and I was the crazy one, who needed to change in order to make things work as she says "normal" Having kids and grand kids in the situation is tough as well, because they don't understand what's going on, only what grandma tells them, which said to say is nothing, good and always untrue.

I am sorry that you're in such a difficult situation, and I can relate to so much of what you're going through. Just remember you are important, you do matter and what you feel is valid.