Suggestions for parenting plan for athletic child and negligent BPD ex?

[ChooseHappiness]

Hi all and thanks for reading.

I’m currently going through a divorce from an undiagnosed BPD partner of 20+ years, and I have some concerns about parenting time with my children.

First off, I wish I’d had an understanding of BPD and known about this forum years ago! I’ve been going mad trying to help someone I now see is incapable of being helped.

Quick summary: My partner became disassociated from our family soon after the birth of our first child and I took over all parenting duties. (I thought perhaps it was postpartum, but our family doctor thought it was deeper issues with mental health.) Once I was doing everything, things got better enough that we had a second child. At which point the relationship went down what I now see is a typical BPD whirlpool: complete abandonment of the family, heavy substance use (alcohol and drugs), massive rage, serial estrangement from others (first all her friends, then family members one after another), job termination (fired with cause), repeated infidelity, shifts in identity (from kink to bi to queer to openly man-hating), and so on. Every problem in her life was always someone else’s fault, everyone else is emotionally abusive, and she is never able to find happiness within herself, etc. She has no friends other than one former lover of a few years ago, and is completely cut off from her birth family. She recently filed for divorce, believing there is someone else out there that will make her happy.

We’ve been living in separate areas of our home for years and I’ve been the solo parent for 8+ years. I wanted to leave years ago but didn’t want a shared custody situation, which is the legal default in our area. She is emotionally and occasionally physically abusive of our children (one teen and one younger child), and completely negligent. A behavioural interventionist who worked with our family for a time called her the most negligent person she had ever seen. So I couldn’t in good conscience leave the children in her care.

Now to the reason for this post. I am fine with the divorce, but I am very concerned about the children being in her custody. Specifically, I am worried about our younger child, who is a high-level athlete for his age group and very dedicated to multiple sports. She has never taken him to a practice in five years and only attended the occasional game — usually just long enough to get his attention so he sees her on the sidelines, at which point she leaves. I am dedicated to supporting him in his chosen passion, but many of his practices and games will fall in her parenting time. It’s very clear to everybody, including our son, that she is not going to take him. He is quite anxious about this. She also reduces him to tears most times she is alone with him.

I am trying to arrange a parenting plan where I continue to take him to practices and games so she doesn’t have to, but she is avoiding any parenting plan discussions. Also, she is very disassociated from reality at the moment and has convinced herself she was the solo parent except for a “brief time” where she needed mental health assistance. I briefly tried to reason with her and point out the actual history, but several mental health professionals (including one who has been in our home and observed her behaviour) said I need to avoid conversations/discussions because she is clearly BPD and in a different state of mind. So I have very much stepped back from any conversations and taken a BIFF approach (brief, informative, friendly, firm).

I’m hoping for suggestions on how to handle the parenting plan proposals with regards to the younger child’s sports activities. On the one hand, I fear that if I don’t do anything and just accept 50/50 shared custody, she won’t take him to practices and games and he will be cut from his team. (She thinks sports are toxic masculinity, so I see this as a real possibility.) On the other hand, I fear that if I try too hard to push for me taking him to practices and games during her parenting time that she will be become opposed to such a plan because a) I am now her worst enemy because BPD reasons b) she knows that our son and I bond through sports and she may want to break that bond. The plan is in limbo at the moment, and I don’t know how to proceed to best protect the children. Any thoughts are welcome.

Thanks for reading and sharing your insights on this forum!

[ForeverDad]

Have you contemplated seeking an in-depth Custody Evaluation?  That is more than a cursory Psych Eval of an hour or two.  Though expensive, you want to select a trusted and experienced evaluator who will assess what is best for the children in your specific family.  One factor that ought to be important for the CE to consider is what the past years' pattern has been.  If you've been by far the primary parent and caregiver, then that ought to be reflected in the recommendation, regardless which parent - father or mother - is stepping up for the kids.

[ChooseHappiness]

Have you contemplated seeking an in-depth Custody Evaluation?  That is more than a cursory Psych Eval of an hour or two.  Though expensive, you want to select a trusted and experienced evaluator who will assess what is best for the children in your specific family.  One factor that ought to be important for the CE to consider is what the past years' pattern has been.  If you've been by far the primary parent and caregiver, then that ought to be reflected in the recommendation, regardless which parent - father or mother - is stepping up for the kids.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've got one of the best divorce lawyers in my area, and she has repeatedly told me the courts here never do anything but shared custody unless one party doesn't want custody. I've been talking to the lawyer for years about this, starting in 2018 or so when my partner first began to abandon the family for a lover (which the children were very aware of) and then later when I found my youngest child playing in the street outside when my partner was passed out drunk inside.

I've had friends and neighbours offer to be character witnesses and state that I have been the primary caregiver, but the lawyer says it just won't make a difference and will likely make the situation worse with my ex. (And cost a ton of money.) So it just doesn't seem like a viable option and may in fact harm the children more.

It's a terrible situation. The only real option for sole custody appears to be if the older child asks for it, as he is old enough that the court would likely respect his decision. He's aware he has a say in things but so far is reluctant to make that sort of decision, which is understandable.

[ForeverDad]

I wasn't saying to seek sole custody, but with a history of your spouse's lack of involvement in parenting, at the least you could seek (1) majority time and (2) some level of Decision Making or Tie Breaker status.

Some here have even sought to split the custody between the parents.  For example you could seek responsibility for schooling, athletic pursuits and mental health needs, while your ex could have some other less crucial aspects.  After all, you'd probably be providing transportation and paying for the costs, right?

I myself was stuck with alternate weekends (my county apparently always defaulted to temp orders with automatic preference for mothers).  Even when divorces took some two years as mine did.  For many of us those quickly issued 'temp' orders were far longer than temporary.

My lawyer had warned me a CE could negatively hurt me.  I bet my lawyer was stunned when he read the initial report of my custody evaluator, a child psychologist.  "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can."  So I walked out with Shared Parenting, equal everything.

But the obstruction and sabotaging continued.  So I went back and was granted custody but denied majority time.  Yet the obstruction and sabotaging continued.  So I went back again and due to her (1) disparagement of me and (2) incidents with my child's elementary school I finally did also get majority time.

So a motto we have here is to seek the best outcome possible, using time-tested strategies, then return to court again when you have enough documentation to merit an improvement.

Most of us had very possessive mothers to deal with, quite tough.  Yours seems different, preoccupied with other priorities... so another thought to consider is that regardless how the final decree turns out, your ex may gradually revert to her old pattern of minimal parenting.  Don't complain or insist she do more than she's comfortable with.  (Most people want to look good in public so she may angle for an outcome making her look like an involved - good - parent yet in time return to her prior comfort zone and leave much of the future parenting in your hands again.)

Lots of ideas in this thread.  You may not remember all the strategies and collective experience so periodically come back and browse your threads to recall points that make more sense when your memory is refreshed.

[ChooseHappiness]

This is very helpful -- thank you.

I've been trying for responsibility of athletic pursuits in particular and have also mentioned schooling (she doesn't even know the children's teachers) but haven't had any luck so far.

Most observers of our situation have said to me she won't be able to cope and will let me take over within a year, but I'm less convinced of the latter part. I think she'd sooner let our son get cut from his team, etc. and find a way to blame someone else than to acknowledge she can't manage it. I guess we'll see.

I hadn't really considered the different stages of court orders for custody, so that's something to think about. I'd just been thinking about the initial order setting the stage for the next decade. But perhaps this is a situation where I have to think about the long term.

I appreciate your thoughts!

I wasn't saying to seek sole custody, but with a history of your spouse's lack of involvement in parenting, at the least you could seek (1) majority time and (2) some level of Decision Making or Tie Breaker status.

Some here have even sought to split the custody between the parents.  For example you could seek responsibility for schooling, athletic pursuits and mental health needs, while your ex could have some other less crucial aspects.  After all, you'd probably be providing transportation and paying for the costs, right?

I myself was stuck with alternate weekends (my county apparently always defaulted to temp orders with automatic preference for mothers).  Even when divorces took some two years as mine did.  For many of us those quickly issued 'temp' orders were far longer than temporary.

My lawyer had warned me a CE could negatively hurt me.  I bet my lawyer was stunned when he read the initial report of my custody evaluator, a child psychologist.  "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can."  So I walked out with Shared Parenting, equal everything.

But the obstruction and sabotaging continued.  So I went back and was granted custody but denied majority time.  Yet the obstruction and sabotaging continued.  So I went back again and due to her (1) disparagement of me and (2) incidents with my child's elementary school I finally did also get majority time.

So a motto we have here is to seek the best outcome possible, using time-tested strategies, then return to court again when you have enough documentation to merit an improvement.

Most of us had very possessive mothers to deal with, quite tough.  Yours seems different, preoccupied with other priorities... so another thought to consider is that regardless how the final decree turns out, your ex may gradually revert to her old pattern of minimal parenting.  Don't complain or insist she do more than she's comfortable with.  (Most people want to look good in public so she may angle for an outcome making her look like an involved - good - parent yet in time return to her prior comfort zone and leave much of the future parenting in your hands again.)

Lots of ideas in this thread.  You may not remember all the strategies and collective experience so periodically come back and browse your threads to recall points that make more sense when your memory is refreshed.

[kells76]

Hello and another welcome from me 

Can I ask how old your kids are? I think I'm tracking with you that it's your younger child who is involved with sports (not your teenager)?

Does your W work outside the home? Do you?

Do you, your W, and your teenager all have drivers' licenses?

...

It's difficult and unfair, to say the least, to try to cooperatively coparent when the other parent has a PD. I think you've got your finger on the pulse of the situation -- she's so wrapped up in her own inner turmoil that she'll do (and not do) hurtful, undermining things, if in the moment it helps her feel (or not feel) a certain way. She'd have no qualms about not taking your child to practice if (a) in that moment, it's too much for her, or she is wrapped up in other feelings, and/or (b) it creates a blame situation, where all of a sudden a "bad guy" is synthesized as an outlet for whatever she's feeling that's uncomfortable.

My H's kids' mom has many BPD-type traits and behaviors (no diagnosis, as far as I know, not that it makes it easier), and she quickly remarried someone with many NPD traits and behaviors. Cooperation has not been possible, apart from a brief stretch of time where the kids had a counselor who also worked with Mom. Mom does not recognize or respect the court-ordered parenting plan.

I get what you're saying about being a little leery of going through the legal process, given your current situation -- that you've been able to be primary parent and stay involved in your kids' lives, and your W hasn't directly/impactfully interfered with your parenting. It is an odd situation -- you're effectively not operating as a married couple, but are living in the same home -- but when BPD is involved, we have to work with the solutions available to us in reality, not the solutions we wish we had. I could see going either way: formalizing things through the legal system (some pwBPD fear the legal system and will be cooperative/compliant to avoid it), or maintaining status quo (if she's likely to explode/retaliate/sabotage if the legal process starts).

The way we've approached it is to assume that anything we would like the kids to do or experience, we need to manage and cover 100%. It isn't fair but it's the reality we've been given. When H's younger kid (my 15 year old stepdaughter) was a bit younger, she had a volunteer gig. Typically they required 4 shifts a month, but I told them we could do 2 a month for sure (on Dad weekends) and couldn't promise anything else (Mom weekends). They were flexible. There were other shifts that came up during the week, often on Mom days, so instead of trying to get Mom to take her, I'd assume I'd have to 100% cover transportation if it was something I wanted for SD15.

BIFF communication was a lifesaver. It got me out of the "plead, convince, try to argue my point" mindset and into effective communication. The kids' mom tended (tends...) to be pretty defensive if there's any hint that H or I understands the kids better than she does. Any hint that "But SD15 told me she wanted to..." would be met with "Actually, she told me she doesn't want to but is afraid to disappoint you". It would turn into a big focus on Mom and her feelings, instead of what was good for the kids.

I pivoted to "does it work with your schedule for SD15 to do XYZ from 4-6pm, I can cover pickup and dropoff. Let me know by 5pm Friday if it doesn't work, otherwise I'll assume we're good to go". That way, even if she stonewalled/foot dragged, her non-response was still a response.

In your situation, I'd probably lean towards setting up and managing all transportation, whether you or friends' parents or the coach. I would not ask or expect your W to do any dropoff at all (maybe pickup, though even that sounds tenuous and your kid might get stuck at practice). I'd also talk with the coaches ahead of time and share some of the issues. You don't have to blame or fingerpoint, but you can skillfully describe a bit of what's going on and see what they suggest: "I can do drop off and pickup Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday, but neither his mom nor I can cover Tuesday or Friday. Do you know of any carpools going on? I really want to support him and make sure he's on time for practice, you know how much he loves it, but our family is at its limit for transportation. We'd be happy to cover gas money for a carpool. Also, any chance you'd be willing to be backup transportation, if the carpool falls through on Tuesday? I know it's asking a lot -- we're having challenges at home and I really don't want those to impact his participation with the team."

...

If that's manageable -- asking for help from coaches and friends' parents -- and if you can accept that the reality is you will be managing 100% of logistics, is the issue still if/how your W might respond? Do you think she'd actually balk at/sabotage your kid being in a carpool on "her" days?

[ChooseHappiness]

Thanks for the response! My comments are below.

Can I ask how old your kids are? I think I'm tracking with you that it's your younger child who is involved with sports (not your teenager)?

Does your W work outside the home? Do you?

My children are 14 and 9 -- it is the 9-year-old that is the athlete. The 14-year-old is on the autistic spectrum and prefers to stay in his room and talk to friends online (he's high-functioning but doesn't like to go out much).

My x and I both work hybrid jobs, so part-time at home, part-time in our offices. Both good careers.

It's difficult and unfair, to say the least, to try to cooperatively coparent when the other parent has a PD. I think you've got your finger on the pulse of the situation -- she's so wrapped up in her own inner turmoil that she'll do (and not do) hurtful, undermining things, if in the moment it helps her feel (or not feel) a certain way. She'd have no qualms about not taking your child to practice if (a) in that moment, it's too much for her, or she is wrapped up in other feelings, and/or (b) it creates a blame situation, where all of a sudden a "bad guy" is synthesized as an outlet for whatever she's feeling that's uncomfortable.

This is what I expect because she has cut off contact with her parents and prevented them from seeing their grandchildren when they suddenly became the enemy. (I have been quietly providing them with photos and videos of their grandkids for years.)

She has no interest in my younger son's sports and in fact often comments on the "toxic masculinity" of sports. I'm not a sports person myself, but I recognize it's what drives my son so I have tried to be supportive and take him to practices 3-4 times a week and games, etc. I actually enjoy it, so I have no problem continuing to be the sole sports caregiver. The problem is she sees herself as participating just as much, even though she has never taken him to a practice in five years. She will show up to games long enough for him to notice her, and then she will usually leave. Even now when she is trying to make a good impression with the boys, she has only managed half a game this season and no practices. His team is now doing road trips, which means a reliable parent is critical to his continued success on the team and as an athlete.

Mom does not recognize or respect the court-ordered parenting plan.

I worry about this in my case. A police officer friend of mine has suggested I make sure the parenting plan is enforceable by the police. The drawback to that would be she could also use the police to enforce the boys being with her -- and most people around me expect they will move away from her and to me in the future. If the plan is not enforceable by the police, she would have no real options to force their return then. So I'm weighing the pros and cons of this one.

I get what you're saying about being a little leery of going through the legal process, given your current situation -- that you've been able to be primary parent and stay involved in your kids' lives, and your W hasn't directly/impactfully interfered with your parenting. It is an odd situation -- you're effectively not operating as a married couple, but are living in the same home -- but when BPD is involved, we have to work with the solutions available to us in reality, not the solutions we wish we had.

It's worked up until this point, but we are getting divorced and will be living in separate homes, so this will no longer be an option.

BIFF communication was a lifesaver. It got me out of the "plead, convince, try to argue my point" mindset and into effective communication.

Yes, once I became the latest enemy/target, I quickly saw the futility of trying to have any sort of rational conversation. A friend and a counsellor both suggested BIFF to me, and I've been using it successfully. It's sad to see the relationship break down to the point where we can't even effectively communicate, but I understand that BIFF is simply the best path forward for my mental health and for the well-being of the children.

If that's manageable -- asking for help from coaches and friends' parents -- and if you can accept that the reality is you will be managing 100% of logistics, is the issue still if/how your W might respond? Do you think she'd actually balk at/sabotage your kid being in a carpool on "her" days?

I am going to try, but I worry that she may still sabotage it. I think she has convinced herself she will be there for him, because she sees herself as the better parent and more ethical person. But I think the moment it inconveniences her, she will find a reason to not take him to practice and the downward slide for him will begin. He's 9 and already knows he can't count on her for that, so he's quite anxious as well.

It's a terrible situation. It seems all I can do is make the proposal that I do it all in the parenting plan, and then see if she agrees -- and honours it if she does agree. But so far she has refused to discuss parenting plans or go to mediation. I am considering forced mediation, which is an option here. I am also considering making the parenting plan part of the separation agreement, so she'll have to commit to something in order to get the agreement signed so we can start dividing assets, etc.

Lots to think about here. Thanks for your input!

[Notwendy]

In the absence of legal action (I have no experience with that)- it may help to go along with her self image and emotional need to appear as if she is an involved parent.

My BPD mother may have little interest in an actual task but insists on her ability to do that task- the image of "doing it". She's invested in being seen in the role of mother but not the actual tasks of parenting. You don't dare suggest that she doesn't do something- it's that something is the reason why she isn't doing it, such as she doesn't feel well or the child made her angry. It can't be the actual reason.

I second Kell's suggestion of involving the other parents in a carpool. The kids enjoy riding together. When my kids were in sports, it was a social event for the parents too. We'd ride together and then maybe stop for a snack or meal afterwards. There were a few situations where it was only the Dad involved and I had a hunch something was going on with the mother- from my own experience where my father did the parenting-but the focus was on the kids- and the sports- not personal issues.

When "doing things for BPD mother" the better approach is "you deserve this break" rather than "you don't do it". If the goal is to get the child to sports, appealing to the positive self image may get better results. Is this playing a game- being inauthentic- maybe- but if the outcome is for the betterment of the child- and works better- may as well do it. If legal action is on the table, that is different- don't sugar coat it. Yes, have boundaries- don't do things you absolutely don't want to do, but if you want to drive to sports games- then do it. If you carpool, she can appear busy and state her reasons "I'd drive today but something important came up".

Some of the things my BPD mother has done in this kind of situation seems illogical unless one understands the feelings behind them. She kept a car even though she didn't drive it under the premise "she can drive it if she wants to" and we didn't dare to suggest otherwise. She will get someone to cook something for her then bring it to a pot luck and let people assume she cooked it. Keep in mind this kind of thing stems from a lack of self image, a need for validation, and avoidance of shame which is an very difficult emotion. Finding a way to drive your son to sports without threatening her sense of self may be more successful.

[ChooseHappiness]

Interesting perspective -- thanks for sharing!

I will definitely try this approach. She is definitely unable to reconcile her self-image with reality, so perhaps if I can find ways to bridge the gap it will help my son.

Appreciate the comment.

In the absence of legal action (I have no experience with that)- it may help to go along with her self image and emotional need to appear as if she is an involved parent.

My BPD mother may have little interest in an actual task but insists on her ability to do that task- the image of "doing it". She's invested in being seen in the role of mother but not the actual tasks of parenting. You don't dare suggest that she doesn't do something- it's that something is the reason why she isn't doing it, such as she doesn't feel well or the child made her angry. It can't be the actual reason.

I second Kell's suggestion of involving the other parents in a carpool. The kids enjoy riding together. When my kids were in sports, it was a social event for the parents too. We'd ride together and then maybe stop for a snack or meal afterwards. There were a few situations where it was only the Dad involved and I had a hunch something was going on with the mother- from my own experience where my father did the parenting-but the focus was on the kids- and the sports- not personal issues.

When "doing things for BPD mother" the better approach is "you deserve this break" rather than "you don't do it". If the goal is to get the child to sports, appealing to the positive self image may get better results. Is this playing a game- being inauthentic- maybe- but if the outcome is for the betterment of the child- and works better- may as well do it. If legal action is on the table, that is different- don't sugar coat it. Yes, have boundaries- don't do things you absolutely don't want to do, but if you want to drive to sports games- then do it. If you carpool, she can appear busy and state her reasons "I'd drive today but something important came up".

Some of the things my BPD mother has done in this kind of situation seems illogical unless one understands the feelings behind them. She kept a car even though she didn't drive it under the premise "she can drive it if she wants to" and we didn't dare to suggest otherwise. She will get someone to cook something for her then bring it to a pot luck and let people assume she cooked it. Keep in mind this kind of thing stems from a lack of self image, a need for validation, and avoidance of shame which is an very difficult emotion. Finding a way to drive your son to sports without threatening her sense of self may be more successful.

[Notwendy]

It is what it is-your son will likely develop his own different relationships with each of you. He will know who showed up at his games. What I have seen happen is that- it's in the "work" of parenting where the bonds are formed.

My father did most of the parenting for me, and so I was more attached to him as a parent. I am not attached to my mother in the same way. It's not anything the adults said or did- it's that Dad was "there" more.

It may feel as if it's unfair to you to do most of the work of getting your child to sports but there's bonding in it. The time in the car together, getting something to eat, getting to know the other kids and their parents. A shared interest with your child. If you can find a way to do this and preserve his mother's self identity as the parent- it could be a good thing for both of you.

My BPD mother also has a difference in self identity and reality and you don't dare suggest otherwise. It's not walking on eggshells to avoid that- it's that it won't register with her, so it's not effective to point it out.

She may say she is going to do something but then, it's also that something would "come up" where she doesn't do it- but the reason is to blame, not her. Your ex may say she's going to drive but may not follow through- so be prepared to step in. Or just offer to drive altogether if she agrees to that.

[zondolit]

the courts here never do anything but shared custody unless one party doesn't want custody

ChooseHappiness, My lawyer says the same. It is infuriating that the system sees equal parenting time as the default and standard, even when it is not in the best interest of the children or anywhere close to the precedent from the marriage. The bar for anything but shared custody is increasingly high and, where I live, requires  sexual or physical abuse. As one person in the system told me, "psychological abuse is not illegal; its just bad parenting."

And they do this while claiming it is in the best interest of the children! Really, it is in the legal system's best interest because it keeps things simple for them.

[ChooseHappiness]

It is what it is-your son will likely develop his own different relationships with each of you. He will know who showed up at his games. What I have seen happen is that- it's in the "work" of parenting where the bonds are formed.

Both my sons are close to me and don't have much of a relationship with their mom. I've solo parented both of them through most of their lives and through some pretty extreme situations, and I'm the one who shelters them from her rages. So we have good bonds, whereas they have very shallow connections with her.

My younger, athletic son has already expressed concern about his soccer time because he knows she is unlikely to take him to practice and games. He's been asking me for reassurance that I will continue to take him even during her parenting time. I tell him I'm working on it, which is all I can do right now. It's hard, because I want to be there for him and protect him from her, but the situation really isn't going to allow it.

My father did most of the parenting for me, and so I was more attached to him as a parent. I am not attached to my mother in the same way. It's not anything the adults said or did- it's that Dad was "there" more.

I'm glad you were able to have a reliable parent in your household. Seems like that made a difference.

It may feel as if it's unfair to you to do most of the work of getting your child to sports but there's bonding in it. The time in the car together, getting something to eat, getting to know the other kids and their parents. A shared interest with your child. If you can find a way to do this and preserve his mother's self identity as the parent- it could be a good thing for both of you.

I actually enjoy it, so it does't feel like work to me. I'm happy to keep doing it, but I suspect she'll try to prevent it to disrupt that bond now that I'm the bad guy in her view. I'll have to think of ways I can preserve her self-identity as a parent. Some of the suggestions so far have been useful, but I'm always open to more ideas.

Appreciate the comment. Thank you.

[ChooseHappiness]

It is indeed infuriating. I've had so many people offer to be character witnesses for me, etc., but I'm told it just won't make a difference. Perhaps it would if my ex was not high-functioning in other parts of her life, but it seems many BPD people are high-functioning at work and at socializing. It's just the close relationships where all the madness comes out.

Someone recently said to me that the courts are great at dividing families and terrible at protecting children. That certainly rings true to me. The shared custody scenario just seems like a simple approach to a complicated situation for them. Maybe it works well in most scenarios, but it certainly does more harm than good when BPDs are involved.

Thanks for the comment!

ChooseHappiness, My lawyer says the same. It is infuriating that the system sees equal parenting time as the default and standard, even when it is not in the best interest of the children or anywhere close to the precedent from the marriage. The bar for anything but shared custody is increasingly high and, where I live, requires  sexual or physical abuse. As one person in the system told me, "psychological abuse is not illegal; its just bad parenting."

And they do this while claiming it is in the best interest of the children! Really, it is in the legal system's best interest because it keeps things simple for them.