The need to alter reality. Anyone else experience this need with BPD partners?

[KayakerDude]

One of the things I find the hardest to handle in my life with my uBPDw is the constantly changing storyline about the very reality we are living. How I can see A. happen and then she says: 'Z happened!' How she will take any moment and twist it into me being unkind no matter if it was something very trivial or even outright kindness (she blew up once because I bought her flowers).
But I find these so hard to deal with. A situation where everyone else thought things were great, and later my wife describes it as a complete horror and she hated everything. Really messes with my head . . .

About a month and a half ago I told my uBPDw she had to move out due to the ongoing verbal abuse.
I also told her that if she could show me during that time that she could speak to me with basic decency I wanted desperately to change my mind on that. And because I wanted to give her some time for that to happen, and because she hasn't worked for 3.5 months now due to a mental breakdown and being diagnosed with cPTSD and going into a 5 day a week Intensive Outpatient Program. I told her it didn't have to happen immediately as she is currently doing the IOP and cannot work. She will finish the program the end of June. So I said she could take a month or even two after going back to work to move out so that would be July or August sometime. I am trying to be understanding, and I am at every point reluctant to maker leave. Even though I have been reaffirming that she does indeed have to move out.

Since then she has:

- Refused to do so. Claiming I 'can't make her'.
- Told me she 'can't stand living here anymore with you I'm moving out.'
- Refused to move out again.
- Thanked me for the space to find a place and go back to work.
- Raged at me for 'not giving her enough time to get back on my feet.'
- Denied the entirety of the terms I set out (leave sometime in July/August).
- Told me there is no way to know what I want to be able to change my mind.
- Begged me to stay living here.
- Let me know she was leaving because staying here is intolerable.
- Asked to stay for the rest of the year.

Those are all basically chronological and although not exhaustive they show the level of disordered thinking going on.
Now, as if it is an important need for her she has retold the entire story to herself and me by saying she is NOT moving out because I said she has to, but because she will no longer live with me as it has become intolerable.

I think wisely I am choosing not to argue the point. But it helps me see the reality of how my life has gone so many years with her. The reversals, the returns, the switches, the bends, the oh hell I can't follow it anymore.
Really I am glad on some level because she is at this very moment packing up her stuff and told me yesterday she will be out in a couple weeks tops. So I am getting what I asked for, but even now I struggle to comprehend how anyone can/could/does/ believe the story she tells herself? Like I said, it makes it clearer that she does this reality distortion around me all the time and I feel confused by it so often.

Talking with a friend yesterday I said I think I am finally done just riding along bouncing on the waves and I am taking charge of my own life, picking up the paddle and making choices for MY happiness and safety and not hers. Because I can't keep her safe from her own impulsivity, her decisions and her own sadness isn't up to me and I have to let her fall down now as she won't accept my help on any level her hatred is so intense.

But it still doesn't make it easy. Not that she would accept it, but I sit here in my locked bedroom and type and want with all my emotions to go out there, take her in my arms and call it all off, beg her to stay and know that would continue the crazy train.
Maybe in this case it's a blessing to me that SHE decided to leave and won't even consider staying no matter what I say (her words). So maybe I am grateful for the reality distortion at this moment.

Maybe.

[ChooseHappiness]

I struggle to comprehend how anyone can/could/does/ believe the story she tells herself?

I found it incredibly liberating when I finally stopped trying to make sense of my xwBPD's distorted view of reality and realized it would never be comprehensible to anyone. Including, I think, herself. I really believe the idea that people with BPD see the world through feelings and twist the facts to fit those feelings -- which means they will never have a stable sense of reality because of their mood swings and inner instability.

I think most of have developed some inner core throughout life that we apply to our current experiences, but many people with BPD just have chaos inside them.

So you may look at reality and say "A happened" and she may say "No, Z happened!" But tomorrow she may say, "No, Q happened!"

It sounds like you are making the correct choices for your own mental health by focusing on yourself, as difficult as it may be at the moment. But you can't help someone who has no interest in helping themselves, let alone someone who can't even see how disconnected they are from reality. You deserve better than abuse and blame. We all do. I hope you find some peace in the days to come.

[KayakerDude]

I found it incredibly liberating when I finally stopped trying to make sense of my xwBPD's distorted view of reality and realized it would never be comprehensible to anyone. Including, I think, herself. I really believe the idea that people with BPD see the world through feelings and twist the facts to fit those feelings -- which means they will never have a stable sense of reality because of their mood swings and inner instability.

I think most of have developed some inner core throughout life that we apply to our current experiences, but many people with BPD just have chaos inside them.

So you may look at reality and say "A happened" and she may say "No, Z happened!" But tomorrow she may say, "No, Q happened!"

It sounds like you are making the correct choices for your own mental health by focusing on yourself, as difficult as it may be at the moment. But you can't help someone who has no interest in helping themselves, let alone someone who can't even see how disconnected they are from reality. You deserve better than abuse and blame. We all do. I hope you find some peace in the days to come.

Very true words. I'm only early into the learning to let go of trying to make sense of most of it. And you are so right, one day she says: 'No,Q happened!' but then the next day and the next. Exactly right.

And thank you for the kind words. I found some peace and camaraderie with a friend going through a difficult divorce with his wife. Not the same issues at all, but it was good to spend some time commiserating, and some time just shooting the PLEASE READ relaxing.

I think I have at most two more weeks of the verbal onslaught so that is something I'm looking forward to.

[PeteWitsend]

I found it incredibly liberating when I finally stopped trying to make sense of my xwBPD's distorted view of reality and realized it would never be comprehensible to anyone. Including, I think, herself. I really believe the idea that people with BPD see the world through feelings and twist the facts to fit those feelings -- which means they will never have a stable sense of reality because of their mood swings and inner instability.

...

This is spot on.  @KayakerDude, you have to simply get off the roller coaster.  Let her rage and throw tantrums all she wants, but do not let that materially affect what you need to do.

a "normal" person would hear "you need to move out, this isn't working" and maybe be upset and hurt, but accept that, and start planning to move out.  pwBPD can go in circles forever.  And - it seemed to me - they actually enjoy this on some level, like an actor playing a role.  You add separation & divorce to the description of the role they have to play, and they can REALLY up the emotional stakes and play the victim, but they can on on with the uncertainty of it happening forever.  What they won't do is take responsibility for the decision to separate and start the actual process... you need to do that.

If you want her out, you'll probably need to file for divorce.  If you don't own your home & are just renting, you could maybe just move out at the end of the lease.  What's you're situation like. 

[CC43]

Kayaker,

I'm sorry your situation sounds so confusing, and yet so familiar for those living with a loved one with BPD.  For the pwBPD in my life, the reality distortion field tends to happen whenever there's stress.  It's as if her brain acts like a mirror that is warped under pressure.  Reality is distorted, and the resulting images in her mind can be twisted, almost beyond recognition.  There might be facts you recognize--you mention flowers in one incident--but the image that is reflected back is invariably one that is negative or hostile.  It's as if her brain re-assembles the facts/images and interprets them in a way that fits her feelings.  So if your loved one is disappointed, or stressed, upset, she can't really recognize the root cause of her distress, self-soothe and problem-solve.  Instead, you bring her flowers, and off she goes.  Maybe she thinks that you think she can be "bought" with cheap flowers.  Or maybe she resents that you seem totally unaware of her pain, and bringing her flowers is insensitive--even hostile--because you're oblivious to the pain she's in.  Maybe she thinks that flowers in no way compensate for the horrendous things you've done to her, and she resents your ignorance, so she lets you feel her wrath.  You'll probably never understand her logic.  I think SHE doesn't even really know why she's unhinged.  Because when she tells you, it doesn't make sense, and the story changes from day to day, or minute to minute.  Basically, when she's dysregulated, the emotional part of her brain takes over, the logical part fades to the background, and the thought process becomes distorted.  Sometimes there's even psychosis (a break with reality), which I've witnessed with the pwBPD in my life.

I think another part of the issue is the thought process goes haywire in the pwBPD who is untreated, and then their inner world is confusing.  They don't really know who they are, or how to problem-solve, or how to self-soothe and calm down in a "normal" way.  I think this makes them view the world very negatively, including themselves; and it serves to engender victimhood in them.  Why?  Because they feel so out of control, they have no "agency," and they must blame others for their own problems.  You're the one feeling the blame right now.

One way I look at it is that untreated pwBPD have juvenile emotional intelligence.  It's as if they are helpless toddlers screaming for attention.  Since they usually get attention (given that their behavior is typically outrageous), it's "working" for them.  I think that therapy can help them learn to self-soothe, but they have to want to learn to change.

Another way that I look at it is that pwBPD are highly sensitive and emotional.  Stress or disappointments can "prime" them to have a "trauma" response.  By trauma response, I mean a fight-or-flight reaction to ordinary situations.

That's my two cents.  All the best to you.

[jaded7]

One of the things I find the hardest to handle in my life with my uBPDw is the constantly changing storyline about the very reality we are living. How I can see A. happen and then she says: 'Z happened!' How she will take any moment and twist it into me being unkind no matter if it was something very trivial or even outright kindness (she blew up once because I bought her flowers).
But I find these so hard to deal with. A situation where everyone else thought things were great, and later my wife describes it as a complete horror and she hated everything. Really messes with my head . . .

About a month and a half ago I told my uBPDw she had to move out due to the ongoing verbal abuse.
I also told her that if she could show me during that time that she could speak to me with basic decency I wanted desperately to change my mind on that. And because I wanted to give her some time for that to happen, and because she hasn't worked for 3.5 months now due to a mental breakdown and being diagnosed with cPTSD

The reality distortion is really, really difficult to wrap your head around. You phrased it really well, you can see that A happened, but then be told that Z happened. This is a source of so much confusion. Did she really mean that? Does she really not see that A actually happened?

Even if you try do something kind and nice, she might attribute to you bad intentions or motives.

These are really classic behaviors. Very hard to understand where they come from, especially for someone show values truth and honesty, as it sounds like you do. It creates a real cognitive dissonance, confusion. It's a kind of gaslighting. You will start to question if you are, in fact, wrong about A happening, then perhaps try to twist around your brain to make it come to some way of 'seeing' that she could be right.

I want to acknowledge your ability to say that you won't tolerate the verbal abuse. When I see people do that kind of boundary setting I'm really impressed.

[KayakerDude]

Thank you to everyone that replied in here. It is needed to hear that my experiences with her aren’t even unusual, and it is just part of the BPD experience.

I am keeping up with my boundary of not accepting verbal abuse anymore, but even so I find myself occasionally wondering ‘what if she’s right?’ and ‘what if MY perception is distorted and she is suffering FROM me?’
it is the topic I most want/need to go over with my therapist on our next session. Not that I think there is any real chance of it being true, but  . . .

Maybe that’s a part of living with a pwBPD. That they alter reality in their own head and then truly need the rest of us to come along for the ride. And it is incredibly hard to live with. As you said @jaded7 I do truly value truth and honesty so living with the lies she tells, and then the distortions (which I am not certain are in any way malicious, as much as she is also confused) has been incredibly hard. And living with the constant gaslighting really does get to you. At least it is for me, even though I am aware of it. Sometimes I am surprised by that. That we can be influenced even by things we know to resist, when they just keep coming it is hard to not be swayed.


She is moving out beginning today. So starting Saturday or Sunday night she won’t be there anymore. And will finish getting the last of her things by wednesday.
I am planning on just being away from the house for the entire weekend as much as possible.

Wish me luck.

[KayakerDude]

Even if you try do something kind and nice, she might attribute to you bad intentions or motives.

These are really classic behaviors. Very hard to understand where they come from, especially for someone show values truth and honesty, as it sounds like you do. It creates a real cognitive dissonance, confusion. It's a kind of gaslighting. You will start to question if you are, in fact, wrong about A happening, then perhaps try to twist around your brain to make it come to some way of 'seeing' that she could be right.

I want to acknowledge your ability to say that you won't tolerate the verbal abuse. When I see people do that kind of boundary setting I'm really impressed.

I needed to hear this. Thank you.

[jaded7]

Thank you to everyone that replied in here. It is needed to hear that my experiences with her aren’t even unusual, and it is just part of the BPD experience.

I am keeping up with my boundary of not accepting verbal abuse anymore, but even so I find myself occasionally wondering ‘what if she’s right?’ and ‘what if MY perception is distorted and she is suffering FROM me?’
it is the topic I most want/need to go over with my therapist on our next session. Not that I think there is any real chance of it being true, but  . . .

Maybe that’s a part of living with a pwBPD. That they alter reality in their own head and then truly need the rest of us to come along for the ride. And it is incredibly hard to live with. As you said @jaded7 I do truly value truth and honesty so living with the lies she tells, and then the distortions (which I am not certain are in any way malicious, as much as she is also confused) has been incredibly hard. And living with the constant gaslighting really does get to you. At least it is for me, even though I am aware of it. Sometimes I am surprised by that. That we can be influenced even by things we know to resist, when they just keep coming it is hard to not be swayed.


She is moving out beginning today. So starting Saturday or Sunday night she won’t be there anymore. And will finish getting the last of her things by wednesday.
I am planning on just being away from the house for the entire weekend as much as possible.

Wish me luck.

It's that 'what if she's right' part that really gets us into a downward self-reinforcing spiral of confusion and self-doubt. I think I remember this correctly, but.....maybe she's right???

I noticed that I did not feel this way with ANYONE else in my life. I was running a business with 9 employees, hundreds and hundreds of customers, constant emailing and meetings and appointments and follow ups.....
....and not a single person said that I was 'forgetting' things, that 'my memory was bad', that 'I speak badly to people', 'I'm a shi**y writer', a 'shi**y businessman', I'm a 'fraud professional' etc etc. Not a single person.

But she made it very clear to me these shortcomings and more. Plus the completely different recall of events that occurred.

I think there's a something really important in how we give them the power to make us feel this way. Why we do it, why their opinion of us matters so much. Something I'm really examining in myself.

Even if she's 'right', does that give her the right to verbally abuse?

Good luck on this hard weekend.

[livednlearned]

What some people do is try to identify what the threat is she may be experiencing.

Disordered people are often on high alert. Her threat surveillance system is on tilt. Relationships are not safe. She doesn't feel safe with herself. Feelings = facts. Her feelings are like a roller coaster that she can't get off.

That's one thing. The other is verbally abusing you when she feels invalidated.

It sounds like it was very challenging to create a validating environment for her, and that's not uncommon for many people here. The emotional whiplash and surprise attacks take a toll and some people feel so beaten down the effort it takes to claw back self-respect and a desire to manage their emotions much less your own is too much.

If you have kids together, however, it's in your best interest to build up relationship and communication skills that were hard to do in the marriage so your kids benefit. And if you don't have kids, those skills can go a long way in the separation process, especially if you're dividing assets.

Full-blown BPD is a severe mental illness. For some reason people don't try to understand schizophrenic psychosis but with BPD there's still a desire to figure out which reality is more real. You're probably compromised yourself after being in the relationship, especially if there hasn't been someone guiding your elbow through the maze.

Good luck this weekend. Anticipate some nuttery 

[ForeverDad]

I am keeping up with my boundary of not accepting verbal abuse anymore, but even so I find myself occasionally wondering ‘what if she’s right?’ and ‘what if MY perception is distorted and she is suffering FROM me?’
It is the topic I most want/need to go over with my therapist on our next session. Not that I think there is any real chance of it being true, but  . . .

Many of us here too were gaslighted after being drawn into such a close relationship.  Yet how often does the other ponder whether HER perceptions and HER actions might have YOU suffering?

I often remark that our excellent qualities of fairness and "putting ourselves in the other's shoes" can sabotage us in relationships with acting-out Borderline traits.

[PeteWitsend]

Many of us here too were gaslighted after being drawn into such a close relationship.  Yet how often does the other ponder whether HER perceptions and HER actions might have YOU suffering?

I often remark that our excellent qualities of fairness and "putting ourselves in the other's shoes" can sabotage us in relationships with acting-out Borderline traits.

There's a whole website about this I've posted once before on the learning board.  I think some of it applies here.  https://www.nicolamethodforhighconflict.com/; the writer is not a psychologist or psychiatrist, and is up front about that, but does make some intriguing observations.  I found it interesting, for no reason other than possibly explaining the motivation between BPD/high conflict women in relationships. 

In the link on motivation for lying Link: https://www.nicolamethodforhighconflict.com/women-traits-bpd-lie/ she makes this observation (I edited it for length):

Because trust is the core foundation of every kind of relationship we might enter into, a person who lies for personal gain is essentially voiding any social agreements they may have entered into. ...we will find that the social consequences of chronic lying are so severe that few people are willing to risk engaging in it.

But there is a good reason that this extreme coping mechanism is surprisingly common among women with traits of BPD. Because these women have a very limited understanding of the kind of trust it takes to be in a romantic relationship, they may fail to recognize the grave risk in crossing that line.
...
Lying is a fast-acting antidote for feelings of guilt, shame and humiliation. It is also a highly effective way to maintain ultimate control over her self-image.
...

Lying for personal gain is against the social rules of every culture. Not only is it against the social rules, it carries so much social stigma that very few among us are willing to confront an individual who engages in it.

Being lied to for personal gain by people who we trust is one of the most insulting actions that can be taken against us. Because most people hate liars, any admission that we don’t believe someone who is lying will hold within it a statement of extreme distaste or even disgust.

Accusing someone of lying is such a highly-charged allegation, that few people ever call a compulsive liar’s bluff. This gives them a free pass to edit reality in any way it suits them indefinitely.

Let’s now take a look at the role of cover-up or compulsive lying in a relationship with a woman with traits of BPD.

She goes on to more specific discussions on why they lie: revenge, cover-ups, to get out of responsibilities, etc.

I thought this part covers a lot of ground though:

women with traits of BPD may get dysregulated very easily and may spend a good deal of their waking life in a dysregulated state. Women with traits of BPD do not need an outside event to trigger emotional dysregulation the way most people do. They can manufacture this state from their imagination. This means that a woman with traits of BPD may at any point become irrationally convinced that you deserve punishment as revenge for the pain she believes you have caused.

And because women with these traits will not have built a foundation of trust within their relationship, it is very easy for them to imagine their partner as an enemy. Although most of us would be very hesitant to cross that line, women with traits of BPD, having never established trust in the first place, will easily cross back and forth to suit their mood. And once she has crossed that enemy line she will not hesitate to use lies to hurt you.

Her site is very specifically tailored toward men, making me a little suspicious of her motivations for writing it; I imagine the same issues with trust and lack of emotional balance would apply to a male pw-BPD in a relationship though. 

[PeteWitsend]

I'll add, from that same above website, the section on projection seems to answer the question about their need to alter reality very well (link: https://www.nicolamethodforhighconflict.com/ex-girlfriend-bpd-projection/):

...
Blame-shifting is a natural defense that allows us to avoid having to feel shame, an emotion that is very difficult for all human beings to tolerate. Projection is basically a more complex version of blame-shifting. The child who blames another for stealing the cookies knows they stole them. But a person who projects is not aware that they are lying.

A woman whose traits of BPD are very pronounced or who had a particularly negative upbringing can use projection in a way that on the outside may make her appear truly psychotic. If she has very pronounced traits she can literally accuse her partner of actions he has just seen her take while simultaneously denying her own involvement.

She goes on to detail specific reasons for projection: to alter history to cope with fear, for relieving feelings of guilt, insecurity, or to just straight up shed any need for herself to be accountable for any reason by accusing others (i.e. most often her partner) of being guilty of that thing. 

In these relationships, we're made to take on the problems of the pwBPD so they can "absolve themselves" of their own negative feelings or behaviors:

When women with traits of BPD allow themselves to act outside of the bounds of rationality, they leave their partners feeling terrified and desperate. Although these women may not be labeled psychotic because their break from reality is a more of a self-motivated declaration of freedom from social constraints rather than an unconscious episode, the results can be similarly disastrous.

Yeah, pretty much.  But also... yikes.

[Tokiarch]

In reading your story and the replies I couldn’t help but want to reply to say you are not alone.  I’ve posted similar horror stories on here in past months. 

Ever changing story line, the projecting / blame shifting of behaviors can be enraging for a “normal” emotional person.  One thing others on here have taught me (and being in therapy) is that it is ok to feel annoyed/frustrated or down right pissed off that your BPD partner is changing stories or having an episode.

Quite frankly they subconsciously (or maybe intentionally!) want to pull you into their chaotic emotional dance to participate with them.  In a way…once you react negatively to their changing of stories / reality it validates (confirms) their possible negative viewpoint of you in that moment.
 
It’s gaslighting in a way. And yes I also deal with this same thing in my life with my uBPD wife.

The most important thing I believe is to make sure you don’t get yourself caught up / confused in their made up or distorted view of reality based on emotions. It can be easy to double guess what actually happened and end up in a state of confusion / anger or frustum yourself.

One thing that has helped me is to record the conversions and listen back to them alone. Try to go in listening objectively… so perhaps going in with a critical listening ear, able to self criticize your own wrong doings.  For me it has helped to hear back when and where things really start to escalate, which is typically when my wife starts saying thing not based in reality.   But it helps me to listen back to what was actually said because a person wBPD can often confuse you about what you actually said or did. 

Remember there is what you or I remember happening.
There’s our opinions / view points on what happened.
And then there’s ACTUALLY what happened or was said. 

Arguing with a BPD person about what was actually said is only going to escalate them.  Remember they truly believe what they feel.  So it doesn’t matter if you have cold hard proof of what happened.   This is angering and frustrating and just know what you’re not a lone in feeling this frustration . It’s painful. 

I’ve tried to get my wife to listen to these recordings with me.  But she usually refuses. 

I have hundreds of recordings at this point of outburst / arguments between my wife and I at this point. Some of them
I keep to help me listen back.  Truthfully I keep them all in case of legal battles during separation.  There’s some questionable violence and downright insulting things my wife has said/done.

Personally, I do try to forgive and move on.  But I am setting harder boundaries and refusing to participate on abusive / inappropriate conversations and arguments. 

Life with a partner with BPD is hard.  I don’t know if I’ll stick around. Those of you out there, you’re not alone!