Help with this email

[Skippy]

Need an opinion here... .a considered one... .

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[Steamrollered]

Hi Skipping,

On point one I guess I don't know enough to really know what is happening.  Nowhere in the email however does it say that hit_does not want to see you.

On point two, if _____ is a college freshman and living away from home I'm guessing he is at least 18.  In that case he is an adult and entilitled to decide who he has dinner with.  I wouldn't even respond to your exBPD (avoiding potential re-engage).  Next time you speak with _____ you could perhaps say how much you enjoy his company but that you understand the pressures of college life ( I think that this gives him an elegant way out if he is really feeling awkward about about reducing contact with you-which I doubt btw).  If he raises the issue of your relationship with exBPD I think that you should be honest about where things are -I don't think that's likely however as that email appears to me to be more about your exBPD thring to control her son than about what her son actually wants.

That's my two cents... .hope you find a way to navigate through this that enables you and _____ to have the relationship that you want.

[TeaAmongRoses]

Hi Skipping Back,

Her son is an adult and has a relationship with you independent of his mother.  I think you should call him to ask how he feels about seeing you. 

You recognize that your relationship with him is going to wind down and that is probably smart.  However, she is making a desperate attempt to control a situation that makes her uncomfortable.

You are not out of bounds for wanting to maintain a relationship of some kind with her son (actually having a relationship seems healthy!) however, I think that when dealing with a borderline, ordinary healthy relationships are not always capable for them and make them uncomfortable.  In my opinion that is her problem and not your responsibility. 

Being open with the son however seems to be a prudent route.

I think I understand your concerns.  As an outside observer I don't think there is anything wrong with you seeing him and she is in fact the one who is out of bounds in trying to control yours and his behavior.  She wants control but that doesn't mean she should have control. 

Good luck thinking clearly about this.  I know it can be tough to decipher what's okay and what's not.

Tea

[moesha]

You're not wrong for wanting to maintain a relationship with this young man, and it seems as though he wants the same thing.

I think you should feel free to contact him directly and ask him if he did not want to see you for dinner.?  My assumption is he told her the plan and she gave him hell.?  He probably feels bad, and in the middle and forced to choose.

So... .email him and ask him.?  That said, you must understand that contact with him means contact with her.?  She will use your relationship to make trouble for you.?  It may be worth it, only you can decide.

It's a heckuva position for him to be in.?  He might decide it's worth it to him to not mention your relationship to her, or outright lie about it to her, but that's up to him.?  

I do think that by being the more reasonable party, he'll see that you are not trying to make her unhappy or enrage her, and that you simply enjoy his company and want to keep the relationship if at all possible. 

[brucey]

I disagree with the above opinions.  She doesn't want you to have a relationship with her son.  That means, whether it is your intention or not, you would be coming between them if you continued a relationship.  You were planning to break it off with him eventually anyway, so I would suggest breaking it off now, or soon.

[TaloninTx]

I don't have enough information one way or the other but either way could be bad. I do see a more potential for badness though in continuing a relationship with her son when she doesn't want you to. Luckily he is now considered an adult and she can't falsely accuse you of abuse on a minor but I still think you're asking for trouble.

Remember, he is also a victim of her BPD issues. He also loves her very much and may not have the tools to deal with her yet. If you haven't done so already, get him a copy of "Stop Walking on Eggshells." Also, be sure when you do to tell him to *not* show his mother the book or tell her where he got it. It would only make your life and his hellish again. He's going to be dealing with her for much longer than you possibly could.

[Skippy]

Great advice you all.  Thanks for taking the time to look at my personal need.  Here's where I come out... .

1) In terms of her note.  No response.  She showed total disregard to her son's interests and to mine.  In the possible event this was intended to get a reaction out of me... .it is wholly irresponsible and I would be wrong to empower her.

2) In terms of _____, no response.   I will let my young friend live a wonderful life.  I'm not going to put him in an awkward position, do anything that could be interpreted as disrespecting his mother, or put him in the awkward situation of watching me humiliate myself in front of him.  I know he doesn't want to cross his mother (she left one before and now his dad is dead).  If he wants to talk to me, he knows where to reach me and I have always given him priority.  I will pray for him and keep his picture on my desk at work, and in my heart.  I do love him.

3) In terms of me... .I feel a deep loss, anger and hurt and shame and I'm not going to control or limit feeling any of it.  I'm going to let this rip my soul apart until the pain stops.  And then I'm going to find a world with people that don't live like this.

I'm not going to count the weeks of no contact anymore... .there's a certain level of contact in even doing that.

[brucey]

Hey, skip: You're a good man, a quality man.  Life goes on.  We have hardships; we all have hardships.  I nearly died because of my ex.  My best friend, a young man a lot like you, a man who was sensitive, kind, intelligent, and very, very interested in life, killed himself because of a woman like my ex.  He was only 26.  My sister died last week.  There are more important things, more serious things, than the losses you and I have suffered in our love lives.  I know how much it hurts you.  I know.  I went through it, and am just now, after a year and a half, coming out the other side.  It is the most difficult thing I ever imagined.  What a bunch of bullsht!  All this suffering because of a stupid, worthless, immoral, disgusting little tramp slut.  Let's move on, buddy.  Let's live.  Life is short.  Let's make something decent out of it for our futures.  You are absolutely right to walk away, and to make a goal of finding some people who will treat you right.  I believe you will do it.

[Skippy]

Thanks for the encouragement Bruce.  I have little to hold onto right now... .it helps.

[blade]

Skipping back, I feel your pain all too well. I am two weeks NC and miss my uBPDgf's little 5 year old daughter more than anything in the world... .It shows me how warped she can be. Breaking up with me days before her daughters birthday over stupid sht. I was very very close to that kid, to the point she called me daddy. I can't run back anymore like the kiss ass I was. I have found that line I won't cross... .I was wondering where the hell it was.

[TaloninTx]

Blade, it's not totally 100% the same but our situations have some eerie similarities. My exBDgf decided it work about a week before her son's birthday. As I recall, she did this last year as well. She has three children, all boys, two of which live with her. Both of them were starving for love and the feeling of normalcy. Both of them began calling me "dad" very early on in the relationship.

Frequently their mom had to work so the kids would hang out with me quite a bit. If my exBDgf was working on Saturdays one or both of her sons would come to my store with me and hang out. I know her kids love, I love them and I miss them. Their situation weighs heavily on my mind because they have no one but her. They've been torn from schools, homes and people they love their entire lives. Now that I know why it's not going to change. One of the saddest things I found out about 6 months into our relationship was that the kids couldn't even remember the last time they had gone to the same school for the whole year. Since my exBDgf had started dating me, the kids actually made it through 1+ year in the same school. I hope that will stay the same but I know she is going to be moving in Feb so who knows?

There is definitely something to the breaking up before a child's birthday. Something about it plays into their fears.

[brucey]

Skip: You write that you have little to hold on to right now.  I know it seems like that, but I want to remind you that you have a ton of things to hold on to.  You are alive, you are healthy, you are smart and competent, you have talents, you have a lot to offer to other people, you are verbal and sensitive, you are young, you have goals, you have desires, you have friends, you have people at bpdfamily, you have family, you have ideas, you have activities that you enjoy, you have strength of heart, you have courage, you have stamina, you are attractive, caring, outgoing, and worthy.  You have a lot to hold on to.  Yes, you have a heart ache right now.  That heart ache will last a long, long time.  But it won't last forever, and it will weaken as time goes by.  Try to keep an eye on the future.  It's like when you are sick - you just have to stick it out, suffer a bit, and wait until you feel better.  It's like that now, except that you have to wait quite a while.  In the meantime, don't let life slip by.  Get out and do things, see people, have fun and diversions.  I know almost everyone here thinks it's wrong to date until you are fully healed, but I disagree.  I believe that dating (without getting serious or leading anyone on) is a great way to get your mind off your troubles and start making friends.  Whatever you do, try to hold in mind the big picture.  You are a good guy with lots of promise and great times ahead.

[webster]

Well said Brucey -

That is actually all it is - to focus on the self. I have read a lot of posts this morning and all comes down to take action and self believe. Any postive self-action (away from the negative) will minimize the current fear.

Take charge SB. Put yourself first (if only for a couple of weeks). Time will sort the rest out.

[TeaAmongRoses]

3) In terms of me... .I feel a deep loss, anger and hurt and shame and I'm not going to control or limit feeling any of it.  I'm going to let this rip my soul apart until the pain stops.  And then I'm going to find a world with people that don't live like this.

SB - Maybe it is just me but reading these words makes me feel like you are deeply connected and solid.  To face your pain head on and diving in is to me a tremendously beautiful beautiful thing.  Your conclusions #1 and #2 sound fantastic too.  I agree with others who post about being thankful for what we do have and for keeping the eye on the future and what not.  But for me the fastest route to true (momentary) peace and harmony is to submerge in my pain  - I realize it ain't so bad after all and then I can choose (i.e. control becomes and option) a positive, constructive attitude (or to "wallow" in the suffering). 

Best to you and thank you for sharing your experience.  Reading your words give me great comfort. 

Tea 

[zenguy]

I have a somewhat similar situation. My borderline has a great son, who is a Freshman in Michigan.  I gave it (the friendship) all kinds of thought and hand-wringing, about keeping the relationship going, after I chucked Mom, until one day he said to me “my whole life has been filled with shifting shapes; and I have no idea what ‘normal is.” Well, I figure Im pretty normal, (but ask his borderline Mothers opinion; Im “the craziest dumb turd shes ever met in her life!”  : You're not projecting a bit Lulabelle; are you?)!

Anyway, he wanted some stability and someone to ask about life in the “normal” world of relationships (each one of Moms lasts about 8 to 14 weeks,  each one the man of her dreams! :P). Well, she isn't worth the powder to blow her to hell, but her son has value and sensitivity, probably because of his dealing with a borderline for his entire life.  ;==

So I kept our relationship going, we talk every time he wants to talk. Really ticks off Lulabelle, (not her real name, just the name she calls herself! :-\)  but to hell with her, hes 19, and if he wants to keep a friendship going, why should SHE have anything to say about  it anyway! Not her choice at all, is simply a control thing for her, and her ability to make rational decisions is really suspect, to put it kindly!  /:) And no, I dont contact her, dont tell her, wont tell her, and forbade him to carry any messages from her at all. Does he catch hell from her, WOW, but he thinks its more important to him, the advice and guidance I provide for him, then her lunatic rantings.  That may change with time, when and if it does; it will.

Dr. Ric