Warning Signs That You're Dating a Loser - Carver, PhD

[united for now]

Here is a post I was refered to from a member in WelcomeToOz2, about warning signs that your dating a loser, who pretty much fits the profile of a person with BPD.

some very scary stuff. Makes me want to run for the hills myself :'(


bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/

[TonyC]

the warning your dating a loser post above

from united for now , i thought was awesome

tonyc

[Gudrun]

Very good article, poor title selection imo.  A better title:  "Warning Signs That You're Dating Someone with a Personality Disorder"

[JoannaK]

This article has been around before, and it always receives raves.  Actually I thought I saw it over at the bpdfamily.com home page... .let me look.

[MsHydesHubby]

Very good article, poor title selection imo.  A better title:  "Warning Signs That You're Dating Someone with a Personality Disorder"

I agree.  I think the label "loser" is a little harsh, IMHO.

Brian

[JoannaK]

"Losers" is Dr. Carver's title... .  It wasn't made up here.  I think Dr. Carver used the term "losers" because he doesn't want to restrict his comments to those who have or might have personality disorders.  He thinks that people who fit his profile are "losers" in terms of relationships.  It's the name of the article... .it's what he named it. 

[Theireyeswerewatching]

Thank you for posting this:


www.mental-health-matters.com/articles/print.php?artID=157


... ."They Make You "Crazy" "The Loser" operates in such a damaging way that you find yourself doing "crazy" things in self-defense. If "The Loser" is scheduled to arrive at 8:00 pm - you call Time & Temperature to cover the redial, check your garbage for anything that might get you in trouble, and call your family and friends to tell them not to call you that night. You warn family/friends not to bring up certain topics, avoid locations in the community where you might see co-workers or friends, and not speak to others for fear of the 20 questions. You become paranoid as well - being careful what you wear and say. Nonviolent males find themselves in physical fights with female losers. Nonviolent females find themselves yelling and screaming when they can no longer take the verbal abuse or intimidation. In emotional and physical self-defense, we behave differently and oddly. While we think we are "going crazy" - it's important to remember that there is no such thing as "normal behavior" in a combat situation. Rest assured that your behavior will return to normal if you detach from "The Loser" before permanent psychological damage is done... ."

Best Wishes... .

[scooter964]

Wow, some of that was straight out of my life!  Especially the examples about driving, and the part about blaming everyone else for everything.

Since I do plan to leave him, I found the tips on "pre-departure" to be extremely valuable.  Thank you!

[not1iota]

... ."They Make You "Crazy" "The Loser" operates in such a damaging way that you find yourself doing "crazy" things in self-defense.

yup, there are days i think i'm becoming a borderline myself. 

good article!

[Lost77]

Wow, my whole life in an article.  Love it! Thanks!

[michelle]

Oh Gawd!  Not only was I married to one (worst 3 years of my life), but I was raised by one!  This article fits them both to a T.  Can you imagine how I felt when they both would gang up on me?  Geez... .it's a wonder I'm not more screwed up.

Luckily, my hubby of over 24 years is a teddy bear!  I'm very fortunate that I found him when I did.

[eggshell]

Wow... .the "they make you crazy" part was great... so true... .and actually kinda comforting... .

But God... it brings back some really bad memories that I'd love to erase FOREVER>...

[RobertV]

Hey,  do I win? 

My uBD wife does 19 of the 20 bad things to me... .  we are still together, but I have 20years of crap to dig myself out of.

I didn't realise that my life was total crap until after my dBPdtr was diagnosed, and I started finding out about BP in general.

RobertV

[jellybean75]

Thank you so much for posting this!

I'm not quite sure how to feel after reading this... .it seems as if the whole article describes my ex-husband.  He displayed every single characteristic listed!  In a way it's like a validation to how I felt and what I went through.  I never knew that there are people out there like him. 

It's already been 3 years since I left him but I'm still recovering from the 11 years of constant verbal and emotional abuse.  I hope that anyone out there that finds themselves in a similar situation may find the strength and wisdom to do what is best for them.

[dragonfly]

I thought this was a very good article, too bad I didn't see it BEFORE I married my husband.  I have been living like this for 20 years and I am still with him, although my eyes are starting to open up now.

[ForeverDad]

Dr. Carver has several handouts on his web site www.drjoecarver.com.  Since these too are of interest to many of us, here are the ones currently featured on his Articles menu:

• Personality Disorders: The Controllers, Abusers, Manipulators and Users in Relationships



• Identifying Losers, Controllers and Abusers in Relationships



• Love and Stockholm Syndrome: The Mystery of Loving an Abuser



• Emotional Memory Management



• The Chemical Imbalance in Mental Health Problems



• Understanding Depression



• What Are "Bad Nerves"



• The Highway Patrol Approach to Parental Discipline



• ADHD: Causes, Symptoms, and Treatment

       

[izzo]

I wish I read that one ten years ago!great article.

[WorkingOnIt]

I first saw this article in a Mens Rights child custody message board and I found that I answered in agreement to 17 of the signs. This was my first indication (confirmation) that my relationship was probably with an abusive person. Unfortunatly  since it did not refer to Personality Disorders I did not find out the disorder I was dealing with was BPD until 3 years later.

[speed of dark]

Great start to Dr Carver,s work.  I will read all of his articles. 

[ferocious]

Thank you for posting this:


www.mental-health-matters.com/articles/print.php?artID=157

great stuff! makes for a great exit strategy that feels just about right already when only reading through it.

[Bumpy Road]

i can yell you this... .i both loved and hated this article... .as a non it made complete sense and as a PD it bugged the sht out of me... .but I understand and respect it. I wish... .for my own protection I had read it and embedded it into my psyche years ago.

[gertrude]

I just realized something - the author talks about small kindnesses and how we feel grateful for them - they give us hope and they keep us in the relationship.  I think I was finally able to leave b/c even those small kindnesses were coming more infrequently - and it was getting colder, nastier and more distant in between - Thank you my darling BPD for changing from an intermittent A**hole to a permanent one.  I think that that is what made some of the difference.  Carol

[LOAnnie]

I just wanted to add that this author's articles (and other psychologists' articles on personality disorder) can also be found at a site called Counseling Resource:

www.counsellingresource.com/distress/personality-disorders/understanding/index.html

Plus, you can write in questions and the psychologists will answer at the site!

-LOAnnie

Dr. Carver has several handouts on his web site www.drjoecarver.com.  Since these too are of interest to many of us, here are the ones currently featured on his Articles menu:

• Personality Disorders: The Controllers, Abusers, Manipulators and Users in Relationships



• Identifying Losers, Controllers and Abusers in Relationships



• Love and Stockholm Syndrome: The Mystery of Loving an Abuser



• Emotional Memory Management



• The Chemical Imbalance in Mental Health Problems



• Understanding Depression



• What Are "Bad Nerves"



• The Highway Patrol Approach to Parental Discipline



• ADHD: Causes, Symptoms, and Treatment

[Hurt llama]

That article that is on this site about Leaving a BPD partner was word for word identical to Leaving a partner with NPD.

I searched for it but found the original article was "Warning Signs you are Dating a Loser" by the same author and seems to have been retitled for more than one mental illness or disorder.

I think this article that was renamed for Leaving a BPD Partner is not very helpful or even valid. In my opinion it doesn't address at all the role played and the damage done and why the advice that is so smoothly offered just can't work easily for most people or at least most people posting here.

I think it's almost a disservice to this forum to post an article written for "Loser Relationships" and used for NPD and BPD and any "Loser Relationships" as if there are not specific issues with each.

[GreenMango]

I think this article that was renamed for Leaving a BPD Partner is not very helpful or even valid. In my opinion it doesn't address at all the role played and the damage done and why the advice that is so smoothly offered just can't work easily for most people or at least most people posting here.

I think it's almost a disservice to this forum to post an article written for "Loser Relationships" and used for NPD and BPD and any "Loser Relationships" as if there are not specific issues with each.

Can you be more specific on what you find invalid in the excerpt printed on bpdfamily?

[Hurt llama]

I think this article that was renamed for Leaving a BPD Partner is not very helpful or even valid. In my opinion it doesn't address at all the role played and the damage done and why the advice that is so smoothly offered just can't work easily for most people or at least most people posting here.

I think it's almost a disservice to this forum to post an article written for "Loser Relationships" and used for NPD and BPD and any "Loser Relationships" as if there are not specific issues with each.

Can you be more specific on what you find invalid in the excerpt printed on bpdfamily?

Boy you confused me by moving the post!

I had read that same article relating to NPD, (verbatim just substituted Narcissist to Borderline).

As the article, as I can see now was credited here in 2007 as referred to in it's original title, The Loser, is somewhat helpful but not specific to dealing with a BPD persona OR from my understanding of NPD as well.

I think the article IS good advice for the 'average' relationship with a  "Loser' as it seems it was originally intended. The advice for a rather 'simplistic' relationship, as compared to the extremely complex dynamics at play with a Borderline might leave the 'average' person suffering with leaving feeling to be the 'loser' in their inability to follow such 'plain vanilla' advice that really doesn't touch on any specifics in the extremely powerful dynamics that can be potentially devastating to (actually both parties) the person 'leaving'.

I think this forum has been a crucial part of me starting the journey of recovery and has benefitted me far more than expensive and time consuming therapy that set me off down the wrong road more than once.

Lastly, with the literal vast amount of accumulated experiences we have all shared, I would hope a more comprehensive (and helpful) article of this type would be on the forum and not this (in my opinion) very pedestrian, light and 'fluffy' article that does serve a purpose in it's original form for it's intended audience. A person simply trying to end a relationship with "A Loser", not someone suffering with a mental illness that is very complex and has specific challenges that most of us are and have been experiencing.

Lastly, "The Loser" was written I believe in 2003 and posted here in 2007. At the time, maybe it was more valid in the absence of better more specific information on Borderline Personality Disorder. I can obviously see positive benefits of the article. But as said, this site is so packed with so much information, so many stories and I would hope a better article that addressed more finely focused dynamics and difficulties.

Thank you for moving my post and for asking for my thoughts. I think this forum is the best run and managed I have participated in. Extremely well done and helpful!

[ForeverDad]

Much of what is written in Dr. Carver's handouts is written in general terms, without clinical nomenclature.  He's writing for the general reader, the target or victim, not other professionals.  Regarding Identifying Losers, Controllers and Abusers in Relationships which is written in non-specific terms as respects specific Personality Disorders, Dr. Carver wrote this: "Over the years, this has been my most popular article. The article offers twenty signs of an abusive, controlling, and manipulative individual.  The "Loser" may be a spouse, romantic partner, parent, sibling, or friend. The article helps not only identify these individuals, but offers suggestions on detaching from abusers/controller and reclaiming your life."

Actually, evaluating the behaviors and not depending upon clinical labels is the way most courts view things too.  If a person hasn't already been diagnosed - and often even if they do have a diagnosis - the courts seem to prefer to make decisions based upon the behaviors and patterns of behavior.  At least, that's generally the common conclusions reached here.

Much like an alcoholic wouldn't necessarily be blocked from parenting just because of being an alcoholic.  Being an alcoholic by itself doesn't mean the kids will be harmed, whether by abuse or by neglect.  However, if the person drives while under the influence, yes, that ought to have consequences or restrictions affecting parenting, and doubly so if the parent drives impaired with the kids.  Same for if the parent gets into drunken rages, in extended drunken stupors or whatever while caring for the kids.  It's the behaviors that get the most attention, not a diagnostic label.

While it's nice to know the likely diagnosis since it does help us feel less lost when weird behaviors occur, it's even more important to know how that knowledge helps us deal with the predictably erratic and inconsistent patterns of behavior.  Predictably unpredictable.  Consistently inconsistent.

[Pingo]

Excellent article and although I would replace the word 'loser' with 'abuser' I can relate to almost every point, this has been my life for the last 4 years!

[tim_tom]

Here is a post I was refered to from a member in WelcomeToOz2, about warning signs that your dating a loser, who pretty much fits the profile of a person with BPD.

some very scary stuff. Makes me want to run for the hills myself :'(


bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/

This article was spot on for me. Wow.

A real eye opener