2.05 | Stop Accusations and Blaming

[united for now]

This is from the book "The verbally abusive relationship" by Patricia Evans, on how to respond to accusations and blaming... .

First, understand that when you are being falsely accused or blamed, that it is abuse, pure and simple. You may feel that if you just explained yourself, that the problem would disappear. You believe that the problem lies with miscommunication, and it doesn't. Our partners are projecting onto us, and at that moment, the truth doesn't matter to them. So our attempts to explain ourselves and get them to see our reasons or points of view are totally in vain. Once you realize this, you will then be better prepared to respond appropriately.

When you are yelled at, snapped at, told that you are acting wrong, acting smart, acting dumb, trying to start a fight, imagining things, twisting things around, interrupting, trying to have the last word, going on and on, thinking wrong, thinking you're smart, thinking you know it all, picking a fight, asking for it, looking wrong, looking in the wrong way, looking for trouble, trying to start an argument, and so forth - you are being abused.

Never stand still for any form of verbal abuse.

Respond with "Stop accusing and blaming me right now! Stop it!"  In a firm and calm voice.

Do not yell or appear angry, since this will open up a way for them to counter attack you.

After you have spoken your truth, taking a time out is a great way for both of you to step back so that things don't get worse.


******************* very important ****************************

This tactic is to be used only when you are being accused, attacked, or unjustly blamed.

This is NOT to be used too often, or it loses it's effectiveness. Therefore don't use this to get them to shut up so you can speak.


Also - Don't spend a second trying to explain why you weren't doing what you were accused of doing or guilty of being blamed for. Just say "stop it!". Abusive statements are lies about you which are told to you. They violate your boundaries. The abuser in effect invades your mind, makes up a "story" about your motives, and then tells it to you. No human being has the right to do that to another. Offering up defenses, trying to justify your actions, hoping that "if you just explain yourself more clearly, they will understand" - all of this will make things worse, not better.

Generally, accusing and blaming involve lies about the partners intentions, attitudes, and motives. They leave us feeling misunderstood and frustrated, and wanting to explain ourselves. If we do, the abuse is then perpetuated.

If you are feeling calm enough, you might want to add... .

"I don't ever want to hear you say that again!"

"please remember who you're talking to!"

"don't talk like that to me!"

"I think you know better than that!"



again, in a calm voice that isn't angry.

[Hannahbanana]

Yes, i like this, i spend far too much time justifying myself and saying "i wasn't doing/saying that"  From now on, it's going to be "stop now"

[StayingAfloat]

I agree.  This actually cleared up a lot for me.

I never really stopped to think about "inventing my motives" as abuse... .but I guess it is.  My BPDw does it all the time.  It turns our discussion away from facts ("I'm feeling really scared right now... ."   "I'm sad my grandmother passed away... ."  "You left your dirty dishes out and I cleaned them up" and turns the discussion instead to my attitude ("listen to your tone of voice, it's obvious you don't care about me!" or her perception of my feelings ("you don't love me and want to get away from me".

There is no way to deflect or defend against these accusations.  It's just my word vs. hers (But I do love you, no you don't, yes I do, then why are you acting this way, because etc. etc. etc... .).  It puts the conversation (which is now an argument) into a state where it cannot be continued and is no longer about the original subject.

I've always told my wife that she was making assumptions about my motives... .and she claims she isn't making assumptions, it's just how she thinks.  Maybe it's true; BPD is a disorder and she's really thinking that way.  But the more appropriate term is "Inventing a story about my motives and telling it to me."  Maybe I can't change her way of thinking, but I can at least point out the behavior when it happens, and she'll either have to change the behavior or lose me. 

I haven't done this before.  But I will start now.  I have a feeling she will spiral when I do this, so I will have to be prepared to walk out the door despite her protests.

Respond with "Stop accusing and blaming me right now! Stop it!"

You might want to add

"don't ever let me hear you say that again!"

"remember who you're talking to!"

"don't talk like that to me!"

"I think you know better than that!"

[Hannahbanana]

Stayingafloat, with reference to the "you don't love me" drama,

I am having an issue right now where he keeps telling me he does not love me, and for a while i would just say "well that is how you feel and it hurts me, but i won't stop telling you that i love you with all my heart, just because you have fallen out of love with me"   Weeks later, he will say to me during a discussion "you told me last week/week before/a while ago that you loved me, but the way you are towards me is not love, so why do you say you love me.


I never know what to reply because he seems to enjoy saying he does not love me, but likes to hear that i love him... .I feel like shouting "stop it" when he does this!

[StayingAfloat]

Hey Hannah... .that sounds like a tough situation.  I would feel like shouting "STOP IT!" in that situation too.  In fact, I have shouted that very thing, but it never seems to do much good.     

Maybe some others have advice on how to deal with that too.  It sounds very passive-aggressive to me... .he's pointing out and addressing your behaviors (good) but inventing motives for why you are acting that way (very bad).

Using the "stop accusing and blaming me!" line might not be very successful, because he's not "accusing" you per se... .but he IS inventing a motive for your actions, which is not ok.  I think the trick might be to validate the feelings behind what he's saying ("I hear that you are feeling unloved" without getting defensive ("but I do love you, just because I did such-and-such doesn't mean... .".  Maybe if he feels heard you can get to the root of the issues instead of spending all your time trying to convince him that you love him.

[united for now]

hanabanana

what you have is a tricky situation.

He is asking you a question in such a way that he gets some reassurance, cause that is what he is really looking for, but doesn't know how to ask. He can't say "do you love me?" since he knows that he has been so insistent about not returning the sentiment.

So, how to handle this?

Turn it around and repeat it back to him as a question.

"Oh honey, you feel like I don't love you?"

That will get him to hopefully give you some reasons on why he feels that way. Remember, a BPD sufferer doesn't think as we do, so we need to dig a lot more to get to the root of the problem.

[united for now]

Keep in mind - with these words "STOP", that what you are doing is protecting yourself from abusive behaviors. When you do this, do not justify yourself, explain your reasons, or try to make them understand why you feel the need to do this. That is why it is important to take a TIME OUT if they become upset the first few times you use this. They aren't going to understand, since up till now they have been able to be as abusive towards you as they wished.  When they hear you stop them, it will cause them to feel very threatened and they will most likely escalate their behavior in an attempt to get you "back into line" again.  Be prepared for this by looking over

EXTINCTION BURST AND INTERMITTENT REINFORCEMENT

When you tell them to "stop" and take your time out, you are regaining your power.

Also, if it is possible to validate, always chose that option first.

Take their words and turn them around and frame them as a question. This gets more explanation from them. If your loved one still continues to blame you, then you can firmly tell them to stop and take your time out. They will hopefully learn that you won't tolerate this sort of stuff anymore.

[Hannahbanana]

It's really difficult to be all caring and  trying to understand why he feels i do not really love him, when he repeatedly tells me he does not love me, it's really horrible actually.

However, i tried the "stop right now" method this morning   He called me and as always, he spoke at me, not to me, he would not let me speak, but as always, kept accusing me of never letting him speak, so as usual, i listened and remained quiet.  The minute i opened my mouth to reply, he cut me off saying "shut up and let me finish speaking, i wasn't finished, your voice is annoying and irritating and it's boring me.  So i just stopped speaking and said "stop that right now, do not speak to me that way again, stop"  He stopped and apologised, justified why he did it and i repeated, i do not care what your reasons are, there is no justification for name calling and belittling me... .do not do it again"  So, all was good, he carried on talking, no name calling, then he started belittling me again, so this time is said "i told you to stop, i did not ask, i told you, so now i am ending this call, have a good day"  I ended the call, he called back and said "what did i say to upset you, was it me saying *XYZ* was it that?"  I said yes and he again apologised and justified why he said it (as always, it was because he felt i text him this morning trying to attack or upset him)  I apologised if i upset him, told him i loved him very much and probably always would regardless of his feelings, because he is a very special person to me, i told him there was no need for a reply and that i was just letting him know what was in my head. (i said this because i do love him and if he does not love me, as he keeps saying, then that does not change that i do love him, so i am being honest)

So, i can confirm that the "stop" method seemed to work today.

[united for now]

hanabanana

Great to hear good stuff. He was probably surprised and startled to hear you say that. Up till now, he never had to think about how he was speaking to you, so it will be uncomfortable and un-natural for him. That is why you should expect some challenges and questions on why they should have to now listen to you.

Now, I think the "I love you" "no you don't" "I don't love you anymore" has taken on a sort of game status for him. He plays the card when he feels insecure (a lot it sounds like) to help him feel better. He tells you he doesn't love you as a protective shield for him. He can hide behind it, never revealing himself, denying and projecting, while all the while still being assured and reassured of your love for him. He gets his cake and gets to eat it too... .This is a very bad habit and coping mechanism for him. I would definately find a way to break this one - IMO anyway... .

[dea0328]

Hanna, my H says the exact same thing, word for word. "Shut up, you're voice is annoying, etc". Guess I'm going to have to try the "stop" method. Hopefully, I'll get the same results, though I really doubt it.

[harmony1]

I actually did this (before I read this post) this past weekend... It worked wonderfully

He had jumped to conclusions on something (does it really matter what it was about? no)

I took a time out

I came home later... I explained that I wanted to tell him how I felt

I started to explain... he started defending... I said 4 times to him... stop defending yourself... I am laying the groundwork for what I am going to say... dont defend  listen or I will leave again.

It worked.  I spoke... he understood... when they pick one thing outta what you are saying to sidetrack you... that is how they keep it going...

after I was finished and knew he understood... then and only then did I turn the questions around to validate him

I was in control of the convo not him... I see now in the past how I have let him control or distract from the convo's we have had in the past (which is why nothing gets resolved)

Its funny... I was playing a game 9old one) called centipede this weekend... the object is to kill it before it gets you... to distract you there is a spider and a couple other things that drop bombs on you

I am now seeing the similary in the conversations with a BPD and a video game the same

keep yourself on task and dont get distracted

[Steph]

 I think we need caution here... .STOP works well, tho I suggest strongly that we dont use it to gain control or that sort of thing... Only to set a boundary. It should be said firmly, and with meaning, but... it isnt about us gaining control. Its about letting the person we love understand that we wont tolerate abuse. Its one more tool that is effective when used at the appropriate times. Used too often, we may as well be screaming " SHUT UP" to our partners.

STOP needs to be reserved for the abusive stuff, too... .not about taking control of a conversation, for instance. JC, I worry about the "attitude" I sense, about your needing to control the conversation... there are skills such as DEARMAN, that are far more effective than strong arming a conversation. Yes, its nice to feel heard... .just ask our BPD loved ones when we validate.

  We need to remember that our partners are mentally ill and in need of care. When they do not have that care, they remain mentally ill and in great emotional pain. We dont want to do more damage than good... .we want to use the skills we have, we want to set boundaries, we want to take care of us... we dont want to beat them up or shut them up. They still get to be who they are and we need to remember that WE are choosing to stay where we are. That should mean we want to treat them with love and respect.

Again, STOP can be very effective, used for verbal abuse... it wont mean a thing, tho, if they are dysregulated. Used properly, it is just one more skill we can use to help ourselves set boundaries.

Steph

[harmony1]

Steph

you are correct... unfortunately one of the ways my uBPDh likes to control things is getting everybody to look somewhere else

I believe that as long as we are willing to give them a turn to speak and hear them I dont think it much about control as much as the need to stay on track

If I let him interrupt then I try to get back to the convo... he just says then I am interrupting him... then a cycle begins

even stop and walking away should be used sparingly... otherswise I can see that as being very invalidating (yes even when they are critical) and making them feel like you arent interested in anything they have to say...

best use trial and error in each situation... if the behavior is leaving then keep the same... if its increasing maybe not using it right or overusing it

[Steph]

 I know it seems like he is controlling things... what he likely is actually doing is diverting a conversation where he feels attacked and invalidated. When we learn to have a conversation that minimizes that, then there is less of the circular stuff we all know and dislike.

So... .have you seen the workshop on DEARMAN? That technique works very well in keeping a conversation on track. It also helps both people from feeling attacked and invalidated, as we use a calm manner and good body language as well.

Steph

[united for now]

I can understand what you mean Justcrazy1.

Sometimes they sidetrack the issue and hi-jack it to the point that you don't even know what they are talking about. If the conversation is casual, then many times I let him wander around discussing whatever pops into his head, and I validate and listen.

When it is important stuff though, I stay focused and don't allow him to sidetrack me by jumping on trival points to twist things around. This is where the broken record part of things comes into play. Ignore the side track and keep focused on your objective. I agree that DEARMAN is good for that sort of stuff, as well as GIVE and FAST and SET. They all work depending on the situation and your goals at the moment.


Yes, "Stop" should be reserved for abusive situations where you are feel attacked and unfairly challenged. If they are dysregulated, saying "stop" and taking a time out are the only viable options, since it is too late to save anyone but yourself at that point.

[harmony1]

TENTATIVE AND UFN

All great points!

It was actually in the d part of dearman that he was trying to hijack   he usually tries to hijack early on... he is getting better tho as am I

broken record technique is amazing and the wonder tool of UFN has saved my monthly budget about $1500 so far this month (in car repairs and broken things)


thanks again for everything xoxox

you guys have helped

[Hannahbanana]

hanabanana

Now, I think the "I love you" "no you don't" "I don't love you anymore" has taken on a sort of game status for him. He plays the card when he feels insecure (a lot it sounds like) to help him feel better. He tells you he doesn't love you as a protective shield for him. He can hide behind it, never revealing himself, denying and projecting, while all the while still being assured and reassured of your love for him. He gets his cake and gets to eat it too... .This is a very bad habit and coping mechanism for him. I would definately find a way to break this one - IMO anyway... .

I have no idea how to break it, i have tried not answering him when he asks and just changing the subject (he usually repeats himself asking me to reply to his question)  I have tried telling him i no longer love him either (to my absolute surprise, he responded by saying i was a bad person for saying that to him... .remember i am told i am unloved on a regualr basis by him) or he has become angry and started shouting, pretending it's abot something else, when i know it was that comment, or he will say, yes, yes i know you don't lovd me and i'm glad because maybe you will find someone else and leave me alone... .then suddenly he will be in a mood about something and i assume it's because i have said i don't love him any more either.   I have tried saying simply "yes i do love you" and my response is usually "no you don't, you don't treat someone as badly as you do if you love them. 

He just said to me while he was calm, you can't force me into loving you when i don't feel love for you... .so i guess that answers my question

[harmony1]

Hanna

I have been in the same boat.  I have replied in number of diff ways depending on what else he has shown me...

Ask him why he feels that way... careful here when I do I get a barrage of false accusations

validate his feelings... not the accusations and instances... apoligize when necessary if you feel you did something wrong (not that they misintrepreted it)

my h recently got jealous about some guy looking at me... something I cant control... upon validating him and LISTENING he felt neglected... .

(this is hard because we know we have shown them love and they dont see it)


in my more frustrated moments I have replied

"you need to think about our history... if you honestly feel that way after all I have shown you then maybe you need to change your circumstances"

Own your behaviors not your feelings for doing them... In taking care of ourselves we can appear selfish and be accused of that as well... but we are not

in patricia evans books she talks also about people playing god with you and telling you what you mean or dont mean... it is abusive as non we need to understand not  to do that to them either

I hope that helps

[Auspicious]

I have no idea how to break it, i have tried not answering him when he asks and just changing the subject (he usually repeats himself asking me to reply to his question)  I have tried telling him i no longer love him either (to my absolute surprise, he responded by saying i was a bad person for saying that to him... .remember i am told i am unloved on a regualr basis by him) or he has become angry and started shouting, pretending it's abot something else, when i know it was that comment, or he will say, yes, yes i know you don't lovd me and i'm glad because maybe you will find someone else and leave me alone... .then suddenly he will be in a mood about something and i assume it's because i have said i don't love him any more either.   I have tried saying simply "yes i do love you" and my response is usually "no you don't, you don't treat someone as badly as you do if you love them. 

The one thing I saw missing from that list was something validating ... .such as "oh, you feel like you don't love me? Can you tell me more about that?" Or "that must be hard feeling like you don't love me".

[Hannahbanana]

 


The one thing I saw missing from that list was something validating ... .such as "oh, you feel like you don't love me? Can you tell me more about that?" Or "that must be hard feeling like you don't love me".

I literally just spoke with him on the phone, he was calling to thank me for sending him a text this morning after he felt attacked by me, where i had said that i loved him very much and would continue to do so regardless of his feelings for me.  We had a calm chat and i said to him that i was finding it very difficult to accept or understand why he used to tell me he loved me all the time, then sudenly decided he did not and has never went back on his word.  I said, it seems that just as i was really falling in love with you, you pulled away and pushed me as you went.  His reply was "you keep saying that you love me, but it's as though you wanted to force me into loving you back, but how can i love you when i don't feel love for you"

So, as much as i hate when he says this to me at any time, i think i prefer hearing it when he's angry and not all calm... .it feels more matter of fact and true now.  I just had a full hour of validating him, listening to him, hearing him, telling him my feelings... only to be told, i will see you again when you acept us as friends.  So i guess i need to just accept him as a friend or move on with him out of my life.

Sorry i seem to have just hijacked this whole thread, very sorry.

[justhere]

Wow, did this thread ever open my eyes about what has been happening between me and the members of my family.

Recently I noticed that I always felt really awful after talking to my mom or my sister. Then I would take my anger out on myself and I have been doing this for a long time. Then I realized the reason that I was so upset after talking to them was that my my mom or sister were saying hurtful things to me and put me down.

First, understand that when you are being falsely accused or blamed, that it is abuse, pure and simple. You may feel that if you just explained yourself, that the problem would disappear. You believe that the problem lies with miscommunication, and it doesn't.

Our partners are projecting onto us, and at that moment, the truth doesn't matter to them. So our attempts to explain ourselves and get them to see our reasons or points of view are totally in vain. Once you realize this, you will then be better prepared to respond appropriately.

At first I tried explaining to show my mom or sister my point of view or why I couldn't do what they wanted... .I'm still trying to explain but I can see that anything that I do or say is futile and I have already lost even before I start.

When I do this though they become even more angry at me just because I broke some silly little unrealistic rule. My sister then stops speaking to me and now her anger and hate still come to me though my mother as she tells me what my sister thinks about me.  

This cycle of them blaming, me defending and them being angry and not speaking or giving me some other punishment has been getting worse and happening more often and I have been so caught up in all the drama I can barely function some days. It has been such a shock to have them direct their anger and hate at me and as I thought I had a loving family so I thought I was the problem, and never saw the abuse at all.  

When you are yelled at, snapped at, told that you are acting wrong, acting smart, acting dumb, trying to start a fight, imagining things, twisting things around, interrupting, trying to have the last word, going on and on, thinking wrong, thinking you're smart, thinking you know it all, picking a fight, asking for it, looking wrong, looking in the wrong way, looking for trouble, trying to start an argument, and so forth - you are being abused.

This last episode with my sister that led to NC for the last 4 months, she was raging at me and I hung up the phone so she got 3 of her daughters to blame, accuse and order me to do things and then after they treated me like that, they all expected me to apologize to them!

I knew what they did was wrong and they were very rude and I just felt so disrespected and small but I never realized that they were abusing me. I just can't believe that I have allowed this abuse for so long without complaining. I know that a healthy person would know these things but someone like me who has lived all their life under the control or a mentally ill mother has a hard time breaking free long enough to see that something is not right. I'm glad I was finally able to know the truth and thank you for explaining this.

justhere

[samsara]

What would be the appropriate response to someone who is "baiting" you with generalizations?  (you suspect they are looking for an argument)

"All therapists are quacks!"

"All women cheat!"

"All religion is a lie"

Comments that seem to have the intent of provoking a defensive response - what is the best way to remove yourself from that kind of conversation?

[harmony1]

What would be the appropriate response to someone who is "baiting" you with generalizations?  (you suspect they are looking for an argument)

"All therapists are quacks!"

"All women cheat!"

"All religion is a lie"

Comments that seem to have the intent of provoking a defensive response - what is the best way to remove yourself from that kind of conversation?

"really?"  "what makes you think that?"   pretty neutral and validate the answer if necessary

[sandpiper]

I read this book a while ago and while I thought the author was pretty much spot on with identifying the problems, I wouldn't use a lot of her strategies.

Over the years I had to develop a lot of crafty ways to defuse the ticking time bomb that is my uBPD sister and as a lot of you would be aware, once they figure out you are onto a new strategy, they mimic it.

The last thing I want is the BPD playing copycat, without understanding the context, and yelling back at me 'No!  YOU stop blaming ME!'

These strategies were too confrontational to be useful in my situation.

I have found that things like 'I am not willing to stay here and listen while you yell.  I will talk to you when you can speak calmly'

and this one 'When you start conversations with YOU it sounds like an accusation.  I would like you to avoid using the word 'you' and use the word 'I' to tell me how you feel and what you want' (invariably this ends the conversation while sister stands there gaping like a landed fish.)

And then there's this one 'It is not OK to yell at me/blame me/accuse me.  I need you to slow down and ask for what you want.' 

(another show stopper because what she wants is to yell, scream, manipulate and make me feel bad.)

It hasn't given the BPD any more insight but all those strategies defused a rage VERY quickly.

I used to work with children and one of the strategies they taught us in school was that when kids are losing it, don't up the ante, don't raise your voice, don't sound aggressive.

Speak softer, slow your words down (if you speak fast and aggressively they don't hear you).

I think the 'STOP' message is important when there is abuse happening, but for me, a lot of those strategies were just never going to do anything but accelerate the conflict.

Just my two cents worth.

[Frankee]

I am so glad I came across this.  It may be an old post, but I used the methods today.  My BPH is trying very hard to get me to admit to something that I didn't even do.  I know the source of his anger.  I know it's from a past hurt and old wounds.  He is trying very hard to drama bait me (as another poster said).  He needs to unleash the wrath he is feeling from people that hurt him in the past.  I'm thinking very carefully how I respond.  I'm staying calm.  I already said that I was not going to engage in a conversation fabricated on untruth.  When asked why yesterday was such a good day.  I told him why I thought.  He came with "whatever doesn't explain... such and such".  I already said once why I did what I thought he would be pleased with.  I'm not going to bite on this attempt to get me to become defensive, justify anything, argue why he's wrong, or explain myself again.

I can see that he has his truth set in his head.  What he thinks right now is all that matters and that is truth.  No amount of logic or explaining the reasoning behind my actions will get through to him.  So I removed myself from the conversation.  It's hard not to bite the bait.  I know he's doing action A to get reaction/response B.  I'm refusing to give it to him. 

I'm saving this post and going to read it as much as possible to drill it in my head.  This information is going to help me out a lot.  Thank you for the post.

[Frankee]

I have found that things like 'I am not willing to stay here and listen while you yell.  I will talk to you when you can speak calmly'

'It is not OK to yell at me/blame me/accuse me.  I need you to slow down and ask for what you want.' 

I think I will try these.  I've tried the first one, but seems ineffective.  I think my boundaries are loose on what I do after I say that.

I used to work with children and one of the strategies they taught us in school was that when kids are losing it, don't up the ante, don't raise your voice, don't sound aggressive.

Speak softer, slow your words down (if you speak fast and aggressively they don't hear you).

I think the 'STOP' message is important when there is abuse happening.

I lost track of how any times I have compared my BPH's rages to a screaming toddler.  There are a lot of difference's, but the basic concept is relevant.  My BPH is use to if he pushes certain buttons, I will respond as such.  I feel one of my biggest changes I can make is how I react/respond/what I say/how I say it.  I have a feeling he might change it up or push harder to get pervious reaction, I will just have to be a chameleon and adapt.

[Marie1971]

I think it will be hard to say, "Stop blaming me right now. Stop it!", with a calm voice.  In fact all these suggestions have exclamations points after them.  I think I will need to sound "firm", but I need to be firm AND calm, right?