Suspecting an emotional affair..

[ohpear]

Hello, I've been reading here but this is my first post. I've been married to uBPDw for less than a year. I've been told I'm fortunate that I realized it so soon, but at the same time thats what makes it all that much more difficult (more pressure to make things work).  The situation is unfortunately complicated by some unique factors that I would like to share at another time, but I was hoping for guidance on a currently pertinent matter first.

I've noticed for the past few weeks or perhaps even months that she has been texting a guy friend. Normally, she's pretty open and voluntarily summarizes conversations with friends (I've never asked her to do this), but she never mentions this guy despite the texting appearing quite consistent. I've noticed this because I've seen the notification banners pop on the top of her screen sometimes when she's showing me something on her phone.

I recognize his name as someone she was in a school organization with about a year ago but is no longer a part of. I also recall that while engaged she had once mentioned that one of the guys in this group liked her but she wasnt attracted to him and it was annoying to deal with etc. I'm pretty certain this is that same guy.

I've been strict with boundaries in the past few months since realizing a lot of our initial issues were due to BPD. At one point after she had mentioned something to me about how we should always still share everything only with one another and always make each feel special "otherwise some couples start going to others for attention."  Even at the time she said this t struck me as odd and raised thought that she was projecting guilt or pre-rationalizing current or potential behavior she may be doing.

It seems small but early in our marriage she snooped on my phone and found a conversation with a distant platonic female friend (who is also married). There was honestly nothing there (the last text was months before our marriage) but her version of how she saw it was ridden with jealousy and it caused a rage and fog resulting in me severing ties with that friend. 

Now, she's regularly texting a guy whom she once told me was into her. I understand it's probably because of my no longer giving in to her fog and creating stronger boundaries, but the she's in huge violation of a rule she set herself for me (even more so since she knows this guy liked her)... .Not that I'm surprised by her inability to follow the golden rule as always.

My question is, am I justified to snoop? I could very well access her phone the same way and actually read the conversations to confirm or destroy my suspicion.  I havent said anything to her yet because I know if she suspects that I'm even suspicious, she will delete any and all evidence whereas right now she seems to be lackadaisacal.

To be honest, I'm at the point where I've been trying to make things work in the marriage but feel its unsustainable long term, and I myself have ridden any previous codependent tendencies that got me into this so emotionally I do not enjoy being a caretaker nor do I need the attention myself. I feel at sometimes I'm just waiting for the next big "episode" as a straw on the camel's back- and this potentially would be it. I don't want to seem like I actually want her to be cheating emotionally, but rather that I can't seem to plan any type of future until I do know.

Thoughts or experiences?

Thanks

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[Silveron]

Like you my wife started her bad behavior first year of marriage.  She would lie and contact her ex-bf behind my back.  Going as far as putting his number under another female's name on her phone.  She even had her dad in on this.  I got tired of playing detective, she would never volunteer the information it was always me finding out.  IMO you have every right to check her phone.  It wasn't until I told my wife that I wanted her out of the house that a divorce was coming that she decided to change.

Well... change in that she stopped having communication / seeing him but the next 10 years was pure hell.  Her lies, deceit, emotional/verbal/physical abuse.

This all destroyed the bond.  Your first years of marriage should be one of your best, not being worried your wife is messing around with another guy.  If it's not this guy, when will be the next?  You will walk on eggshells, your demeanor will change and she (like my wife always does) has the nerve to ask 'Why are you so miserable'?

Your wife needs counseling if she has BPD and many years of it.  Anything short of that, you will be living the life I am.  I stay because of my daughter who I can't throw to the wolf.  However I see my daughter acting out because of my wife's behavior.

So, yes snoop.  Play detective.  Get good at it.  Get ready to be blamed for snooping and everything under the sun when you confront her with the evidence you find.  Be prepared to take the blame even though it's her fault.  Remember you are dealing with someone emotionally immature, they will be stuck at the emotional age of a teenager.  Expect her to resent you, expect to be painted black.  You are now her father/mother that she's had issues with in the past.  You are now the emotional punching bag.

[vortex of confusion]

I have mixed feelings about snooping. The fact that you want to snoop is a huge red flag that something isn't right. There have been times in my marriage where I have resorted to snooping. The snooping usually led to my suspicions being confirmed.

Early in my marriage (been together 17 years) my husband would spend every spare moment looking at porn and taking matters into his own hands. He would lie and say he wasn't doing it any more. I would snoop and find out that he was lying. I drove myself crazy snooping. I snooped and confronted him until I couldn't find any evidence that he was lying to me. The problem was that he was lying. He had just found better ways to hide it. I didn't find this out until he lost his job over looking at porn at work.

The more I snooped, the better he got at hiding things, especially when I would confront him with what I found.

Don't let others silence your intuition.

[OnceConfused]

My xBPDgf did just the same thing. She threatened me with breaking up if I talked to any females, and yet she continued to talked and texted to her xbfs. To her as along she did not exchange bodily fluid she was faithful.

I thought it was rather strange she would maintain a different standards for me and for her. Well, my friend. that is how BPD thinks and acts as they live in a different universe than we are

[Joel2:25]

I have mixed feelings about snooping. The fact that you want to snoop is a huge red flag that something isn't right. There have been times in my marriage where I have resorted to snooping. The snooping usually led to my suspicions being confirmed.

Early in my marriage (been together 17 years) my husband would spend every spare moment looking at porn and taking matters into his own hands. He would lie and say he wasn't doing it any more. I would snoop and find out that he was lying. I drove myself crazy snooping. I snooped and confronted him until I couldn't find any evidence that he was lying to me. The problem was that he was lying. He had just found better ways to hide it. I didn't find this out until he lost his job over looking at porn at work.


The more I snooped, the better he got at hiding things, especially when I would confront him with what I found.

Don't let others silence your intuition.

Oh yes, been here too. Hidden porn over the years... .lying, swearing it wasn't his... .knew nothing about it even when confronted directly... .it was almost comical a few times ... .uh, who's would it be then?... .the starvation of my needs while he acted out on his own. With electronics this had become a HUGE issue between us until I finally realized the reality. I hate it, it is demoralizing to me, but guess what? It's not going to ever change. He uses it to soothe himself or punish me. I will NEVER be able to alter that and he doesn't care enough/is able to change it himself. Refuses counseling COMPLETELY. (He's who he is-everyone else is the problem) I made a choice to STOP worrying about it. Insisted he change all his pass codes. (Gave his crap back to him to carry. ). I tell him, calmly, reasonably my boundaries and my needs. I NO LONGER concern myself with the porn. It's not my issue-it's his. I concern myself with what I expect of him-reasonably-and allow him to figure out if his BS is gonna cause him problems with meeting those requests. He has choices to make as do I. I worry now about making sure I'm good. I don't have time to worry about his nonsense in this area anymore. One of the BEST life decisions I've yet made.

[ohpear]

Thank you all for your input. I appreciate you sharing your experiences.

She's very high functioning and extremely smart. There are so many messenger services that I'm reluctant to act/question her prematurely because she could just opt for more discrete methods and playing detective just gets harder. I hate being in constant detective mode and thats one of the main reasons I feel its last straw material if potential affair or attention supplementing is there.

She has not been to counseling or therapy. Her behavior used to be much worse. At one point i did have her leave to her parents. Since then she has been better at controlling her rages and doesnt try to get away with as much, but she's compensated by being more clingy and needy to be taken care of all the time and now more than ever I feel like a complete parent/caretaker. The sudden change is also why I don't doubt that she would look to other avenues for fulfilling her need for attention.

I know she needs help but in the past I mentioned some things to her and she literally stormed out of our place in a rage then cried while accusing me of using things she shares with me against her. Because she's high functioning she has high level education and prestigious career path that she's trying to begin but I can see the BPD is giving her a hard time. A diagnosis may end up doing her more harm and I know thats why shes never sought help. In arguments she's projected these feelings saying "you think I'm a psychopath," or "i don't have a mental illness in case thats what youre thinking," although I've never done anything remotely indicating that (I've never even used the word "crazy" to describe her behavior even during rages).

Heres the kicker I referenced earlier. Her parents are both T's. I confronted them and they denied its BPD. Yep. They said this even after Id told them she'd expressed suicidal thoughts and attempted self harm right in front of me. They said its just immaturity and we need to work through it. They implicitly guilted me as being responsible for the behavior. The entire family is dysfunctional. Bad situation all around.

[ShadowIntheNight]

Oh pear, I wasn't married to my uBPDexgf but we were together almost 10 years. We were a lesbian couple. A lot in your original posting hit home for me. My ex would always tell me about these women who were so nice to her, and When I would point out that they were hitting on her, she would act all surprised, like how can anyone be hitting on me. I realize now two things were going on here, first she knew they were hitting on her, but wanted me to point it out. Secondly, she was doing it souly, I now believe, to make me jealous. She did the same thing toward me with her female boss and other women. She'd tell me about her crushes on them (she didn't call them crushes, but that's exactly what they were) and if I called her out on it, she'd get infuriated. "How dare I! If I can't take it that she wants a close friendship with these women, then there's something wring with me." Over time, I developed a poker face and would never ever let her know how I felt about these "friends." But I also came to realize that these crushes would flame and burn out in about 6 months.

Mind you,  many of my close friends, women I had known for years, if I was doing activities with them, she got infuriated. Accused me of wanting to be with them, of cheating on her, you get the picture. These were friends of mine I had known for years. Friends who were married. It blew my mind.

In the end, she abandoned our relationship by "interviewing" men (read going out on dates) behind my back, til she found one who was enough of something that she could leave me and not come back.

My ex was doing the jealousy thing early on in our relationship too (her trying to make me jealous) but I didn't fall for it because of my emotional security. Over time I allowed her to beat that confidence down. So if you think it will get better, my guess is that it probably won't if it has begun this early.

A friend was telling me this last night. Our BPD's are like emotional vampires and they always need new sources. I was steady and she couldn't take that ultimately. Interestingly, it has been almost a year since she left w/o a reason, which means whomever her new "steady" is is probably fast losing his luster.

And just so you know, my ex is not a diagnosed BPD. BUT she is a therapist. And she's 46. So if smart and high functioning is what you're thinking she is, then I assure you she'll be super tricky in the things she does. My opinion is to think long and hard do you want to endure being in charge of an "immature" person hoping they will change AND run into the possibility of having kids with her. Don't be surprised if she got wind of you wanting to leave that she did become pregnant to keep you around. Just some things to think about.

[Silveron]

My wife like yours comes from a dysfunctional family.  Most of them do.  Trying to talk to them about the issues doesn't do any good.  They won't take responsibility for the abuse and neglect they put on their child for so many years.  As her parents say 'she just needs to be more responsible and grow up'.  Yet, it is them who did the harm.

You need to set clear boundaries, don't take anything for granted.  Things such as 'My boundaries are that contact and/or flirting with another person is terms for me to leave this marriage'.  You would think such things would be common sense but to a BPD it's not.  Actions speak louder than words.  My wife absolutely hates me giving her the silent treatment.  She even told the psychologist that she would rather hear me scream at her than either not speak to her or tell her I'm hurt.  BPDs can't deal with emotions, they are afraid to.  They are already filled with anxiety.  They see black and white.  If you disagree with her or confront her on an issue, you are painted black.  To them this black and white view coincide with love and hate.

You are eventually going to be her father figure and she will resent you for it.  If she doesn't go to long term counseling then there is not much for you to do except to end the relationship.  However you do have a right to snoop, you have a right to know that you are not living in a lie.

 

[californiamomof3]

I can relate to this a lot.  I just posted in fact for the first time about my husband, who I think is either BPD or some other personality disorder.   Our daughter is BPD (one of 3 kids, she is the only one with it and it is diagnosed).

My husband has always been suspicious of me.  We are currently separated and I filed for divorce, though I am very conflicted about that.   For many years, he criticized the way I dress (too revealing) and checked my Facebook emails and texts.   He found I was talking to men but always very platonic… that bothered him so much that he actually threatened my childhood male friend by saying he would tell the guy's wife he was having an affair with me.    I have known this guy for many many years and was sad but actually cut off the friendship for his safety and for my husband's desires for me to do so.    I also have gone to many events for charities and asked my husband to join me;  he always refuses.  Then he would get mad when he saw photos from the events where I was standing next to another man.   I have been a good wife and very loyal and 99% of the time I am home with our kids.

Last year, he began what I would say was an emotional dependance on a former co-worker.   i don't think affair is the right word.   I think what may be happening with your wife is the same sort of thing.  What I found out is that he was taking this woman out to dinner (and if you knew my husband he is VERY shallow and thinks all women should be a size 0 like me, and this woman was quite overweight, so I really don't think it was anything other than emotional).   He would go out with her and try to hide it from me, but admit it when I found a dinner receipt.   What bothered me is he felt the need to "impress" her with an expensive dinner here and there, and really didn't do this for me.    For example, he did this once while I was away for the weekend with our kids.  I was busy being mom and doing the right thing by taking our kids away to the beach so hubby could get some work done.   And he quickly asks his co-worker to dinner and pays for a $150 meal that he would probably not suggest doing for me.  This was so very hurtful.   But here is really what I think of it…

-Your wife probably - like my husband - is intrigued by the attention and that is the extent of it.  

- My husband did things to try to "hide" his dinners with her, but ultimately he would leave clues around so I would find them.   He also changed passwords on his phone but when I would find out the password and check, I didn't see anything unusual not even calls to her.    I feel both your wife and my husband may LIKE the drama and encourage it.    The more they try to "cover up" something that has a fairly limited scope,  the more it makes them feel in power or control over you.

- I would not snoop anymore.   It will drive you crazy

- Tell your wife that if it's OK for her to talk to males, you really won't apologize for talking to females in the future too.  Tell her there needs to be clarity in the boundaries of what you both think is acceptable.   This may make her realize that YOU are a person too with feelings and opinions.   It's a worthwhile discussion.

I am baffled by the behavior these high conflict people cause.   I would not give up on the marriage yet, but I also would be leery because I am 19 years into it, and now in the process of a divorce that  I hate to go thru with.   We have 3 kids and for them, I really want it to work out.   If it was only him talking to/going to dinner with the co-worker (which by the way, she ended the friendship, she could NOT take his drama and the talk at dinner was always about his problems LOL), I would probably just ask to go to couples therapy and work on that.  If you do therapy though, find a very structured therapist.  They are not easy to find but for example doing DBT or CBT is really beneficial.   The garden variety therapist seems to just want to work on communication which is fine but in some cases there needs to be structure… I think your wife needs that kind of situation.    Keep us posted.  

[ohpear]

Thank you all once again. I definitely agree about the element of doing these things to maintain some sense or feeling of power and control.

I did it. I checked the phone. I found the text conversation.

There were three immediate red flags:

-there was only three days of text history despite them obviously texting way beyond that.  She's apparently deleting the conversation every now and then to keep the history short.

-at one point she mentions an ex of hers to him by name. This is pretty personal information in our culture that typically isnt shared with just anyone. I didn't even know as much detail about this ex as she was sharing with this guy. As I mentioned earlier she herself said she didnt want us sharing detailed information about our lives with anyone but each other. When attacking me about my friend she herself said girls share personal things when they're trying to flirt or garner sympathy etc.

-most of the texts were of the same nature of things she told me she thought were absolutely inappropriate, but they had some that were much, much worse. She asked him straight up to send her a selfie. There seemed to be a gap after that so I'm not sure if he did and she deleted it. At another point he sent a photo of his badge ID and her immediate response was "nice pic" with a heart-eyed emoticon.

For me, emotionally, I've had it. I'm checked out and I don't think I can check back in after this to be honest.  You guys were right, the feeling of needing to look of course meant Id find something. I know it may seem overreacting but we are both from religious families so are rules/vows so to speak are much tighter, and especially based on her own "boundaries" she's established herself as a complete hypocrite. Its not just this but the fact that the golden rule cannot be followed. That ultimately is what is driving me out.

I was too caught up to have the awareness to take photos. I should have. I havent confronted yet as I feel I need to maintain concrete evidence.