Won't stop focusing on the past

[usagi]

Hello forum!

I had a session with my therapist this morning where I explained that at the moment the biggest obstacle is that my partner can't seem to stop asking about the past.  "I need to know what happened last year."  It's probably not this frequent but it seems like it's once a day she wants to have this conversation.  Mind you we've talked about this ad nauseum.  Lately I've been trying to just respond by saying that I'm sorry for what happened and that I don't have anything more I can add.  After explaining this, my therapist asked "what happens if she never stops asking?"

I don't know the answer.  I'm REALLLY hopeful that if I stick to my dialog of "I'm sorry and I don't have anymore I can add" that eventually she'll move on.  But it's hard on my and our relationship when she can't let this go.

Is there anything else I can do to reinforce this and or help her?  My therapist says that ultimately this is her work and it would be more effective is she were seeing her own therapist.  But she's been really cool on that idea.

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[ThanksForPlaying]

Many years ago in college I dated a girl with a phenomenal memory. In hindsight, I suspect also some PD traits and family issues. But what ultimately led to the breakup was just that she was incapable of forgetting any slights against a person. She could remember feelings and grudges from the smallest conversations years ago. Not just with me, but with everyone. All the baggage just accumulated over time. It ruined all her relationships.

Also interesting is the movie "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind".  It's always sunnier if you can keep your memory short and your mind spotless. The movie also touches on the question of "if you already knew ALL the good and bad of a relationship at the beginning, would you still go through it?" Many here would say no, but some would still sign up.

Sorry I've done nothing to give you any tools for moving past this event - maybe others will have some thoughts. Hang in there.

[usagi]

Hi ThanksForPlaying,

Thanks for the post.  In this case it feels like the baggage she holds onto is mostly to do with me but it could be other slights.

This is work that she needs to do.  There's absolutely nothing I can really do other than maintain my position, I think.  If I engage with her when she asks about the past I feel like I'm encouraging that behavior.  She's feeling scared or uncertain about the future based on what happened.  I think what she really wants is for me to take that feeling of being scared away, which I can't.

But, in the meantime, this is hard for me to hold.  Just again this morning as we woke up, she rolled over and said "why were you mean to me last year".  First words out of her mouth.

It's something that will, over time, erode our connection.  I'm trying to figure out if there's anything I can do to shore up that connection against this.  And what happens if she can never let go.

[Outdorenthusiast]

Your therapist is correct - this is her issue.  However there are a few things you can potentially do on your end too but it involves sharing your feelings and putting stronger boundaries in place - both are difficult.

My wife constantly was bringing up items like this - sometimes from 20 years ago.  I did my therapy work and explained to her my feelings something like this: people make mistakes, I am not perfect.  It makes me feel bad that you are continuing to bring it up my mistakes after I have genuinely apologized.   It makes me feel that I am not safe emotionally and I can’t make mistakes with you and grow as a person.  When you continue to bring up my mistakes from the past it makes me feel  … etc.  … what can we do to change this situation?  I will make mistakes, and I want to feel emotionally safe around you and grow towards you - not be afraid of making a mistake and start withdrawing from you …. (Then listen with empathy and validate her feelings - this step is crucial - use the SET methodology)

Then set a boundary:   I no longer want to feel this way.   I want to feel respected, and I want to feel I am allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, and that each mistake I make will not be brought up for the rest of my life.  I don’t want to live in a world where all of my mistakes will be perpetually brought up, and definitely not from someone from someone who I need to be my biggest cheerleader and encourager.   I want to live with a partner that knows I am not perfect and I will make mistakes, and won’t be punished for them forever.   I want to live and grow into in the future - not continuously relive the dark parts of my past.  I am unable to change how you feel about “x.”  I feel I have tried everything I can, and I can’t change the past.   How you feel about “X” I realize now is out of my capability to change.   I need to let go of trying to control how you feel.   I can only control how I feel.  So - if you choose to bring it up again, I will choose to … (pick something….change the subject, stop the conversation and leave the room for 5 mins to decide how we will proceed to come back and talk… etc).  I can appreciate that what I did hurt you deeply, and I acknowledge my role and have taken accountability.  Now for my feelings I need to move forward, and not discuss it again. (It is important that the boundary consequence is proportional, and something 100% in your control to implement and it doesn’t require her participation at all.)

Optional:  …I feel that this is hard for you to let go of these feelings, and I feel you are struggling from the hurt I caused…. I care about you and I don’t want you to feel this way.  I will 100% support you in helping you move forward too so we can be closer.  If you feel it is too hard to let go of this hurt and not bring it up again I am willing to support you in talking this out with someone more qualified than me on how to manage these difficult feelings…etc. (counselor etc..)

Hope this prompts some ideas…

[usagi]

Those are some great suggestions Outdorenthusiast, thank you.

I have been focusing on just maintaining a boundary but haven't tried telling her how it makes me feel and how it impacts our relationship.  I'll have to think through that and come up with how I might apply that with her.

Yesterday I tried a little experiment.  She became dysregulated in the morning when I was helping her move some items to our new apartment.  She got more riled up than she would have otherwise when I fought with her a little about how the details of what she wanted kept changing and how it was impacting my work day.  Later I apologized for that and asked "can you forgive what I did?"  Last night she brought that up.  "Why did you ask if I'd forgive you?"  I said I wanted to see if you could move past what happened.  She said that she can't actually forgive someone unless they fully stop whatever it was that hurt her feelings.  It was really telling.  How can you be sure that someone will never make a particular mistake ever again?  If that's true you can never forgive them for their actions.

[Pook075]

I actually had a similar conversation with my ex last week on the same topic- she brought up how I "threw her out" three times in the first few years of marriage (20+ years ago) and she never should have come back.  She's brought this up across the two years we've been separated about how I discarded her.

I think I finally gave the right answer by saying, "You're acting like out of nowhere, I asked you to leave.  That's not true.  We were arguing and couldn't find middle ground.  That's OUR fault- yours and mine."

She replied with, "I never should have let you talk me into returning back then."

So I said, "I asked you to come home and work through things because that's what the Bible says to do.  I forgave you and let it go, because that's what the Bible says to do.  I haven't mentioned that stuff since because that's what the Bible says forgiveness means.  I forgave you because I love you and wanted it to work."

My wife is religious, so she went silent for a bit and finally said, "Well, that's good."  Then she was silent some more and changed the subject entirely.  It hasn't come up since.

In your case, dancing around the question is not getting your desired result.  So answer the question directly- I was hurt, we both shared some blame, and I've forgiven you for your part.  Can you forgive me as well?

This conversation has to end, and the only way that happens is for her to get some closure from it...hopefully with some validation as well.

[usagi]

Thank you pook,

I agree that the conversation needs to end.  I could see how highlighting faith could help in that regard.  I'm glad that helped your conversation.

I feel like the only thing I can hang my hat on is validating that yes her feelings were hurt in a big way last year, and yes there were things I should have done differently.  I've tried not talking about it.  I've tried just saying "I'm sorry for what I did".  I think I need to maybe just be direct with her and ask if she is willing to try to move on.

[Pook075]

Thank you pook,

I agree that the conversation needs to end.  I could see how highlighting faith could help in that regard.  I'm glad that helped your conversation.

I feel like the only thing I can hang my hat on is validating that yes her feelings were hurt in a big way last year, and yes there were things I should have done differently.  I've tried not talking about it.  I've tried just saying "I'm sorry for what I did".  I think I need to maybe just be direct with her and ask if she is willing to try to move on.

I think I told you in another thread, the most powerful sentence I've come across is just six words- "I'm sorry, can you forgive me?"

Apologizing over and over again means nothing if there's not forgiveness involved.  You can't live that way and keep your sanity, so you have to be actually forgiven or there's no way forward.  So ask for it and actually make it a boundary that you won't live under that grudge indefinitely.  If she wants to calmly ask questions, fine.  If she needs to blame, fine.  But there has to be a stopping point where you both decide to move forward together.

Ask her what that looks like, how to get to that resolution.  Let her decide how to finalize this for herself, but insist on some timelines as well for your own mental health.

We all make mistakes.  Marriage is two becoming one and accepting those flaws.  Fighting for your marriage is moving towards that goal together.  Right and wrong doesn't matter- it's all about forgiveness and moving forward.

[usagi]

Hi Pook,

Yes you had mentioned that in a previous thread.  I've been trying just sticking to the mantra of "I'm sorry about what I did", but really haven't been adding "can you forgive me?"

My therapist actually suggested I start keeping track of how often she's talking about this to see if maybe she's really starting to let go of it.  At the moment it feels very frequent.  She did bring it up Wednesday but not yesterday that I recall.

I can see how this will need to be a boundary of some kind.

She's said that she doesn't think she has anything to do to help make our relationship better.  This would be a good start.

[Outdorenthusiast]

She's said that she doesn't think she has anything to do to help make our relationship better….

This is directly because you have kept the part where she is perpetually hurting your emotions a secret.  She can’t fix what she doesn’t know - she isn’t a mind reader.  Her not letting go and forgiving is having a direct consequence to your emotions and feelings.  You have to share how it is affecting you…or accept the consequences that she will continue because she “isn’t doing any damage”, and only her feelings are impacted…

Talking about feelings for guys is hard… it is bred out of us early…

[usagi]

Ain't that the truth  Outdorenthusiast,

Thanks for the comments.  I have definitely gotten better over the years about sharing my feelings.  I do share them with her sometimes but probably not often enough.

We did go around about this topic again this past weekend.  I didn't bring up my feelings but asked something like why does she feel she needs to keep holding this against me (I was a couple of margaritas in...   ).  She said that she talks about it when she feels the pain from the event.

I think sharing my feeling about when she brings it up is a good idea.

[kells76]

I didn't bring up my feelings but asked something like why does she feel she needs to keep holding this against me (I was a couple of margaritas in...   ).  She said that she talks about it when she feels the pain from the event.

I think sharing my feeling about when she brings it up is a good idea.

That could be a path forward. It seems pretty right on the money as an explanation that yeah, she brings it up (phrased in the unhelpful way of "why did you...") when she feels the pain.

Possible validation when she starts in on "why did you..... last year" could be:

"You must be in so much pain right now."

Wondering if you noticing/acknowledging her pain is really what she wants out of the "why did you..." stuff?

And yeah, joining her in her pain could be a way for you to bring up your feelings, too:

"I'm in pain, too -- it hurts, I get how bad you must feel" or something. That can take a little more nuance to have it be a path forward together vs her feeling invalidated ("why do you have to make it about you when I'm sharing how I feel")

...

Glad she was that straightforward with you, to come out and say "I bring it up when I feel the pain". Sounds like it could be a gift.

[usagi]

Thanks Kells,

It's amazing to me that she can be at once both very unaware of her own state of mind and insightful.

I have been noticing more and more that I've been able to react more to the feelings behind the words.  Taking her at her word when she's dysregulated never works.  When I respond to that it always runs off the rails.  But I'm finding that if I respond to the emotions, even if she's not able to recognize them, it's helpful and she calms down much quicker.