She Agreed to Therapy...Any Thoughts?

[ThatConfusedGuy]

Ok guys, I have a question. My left, came back and I found she was cheating, and she left again. She was really nasty to me. So recently, I have been ignoring her. She came around when needing stuff and then would disappear again. Well, a friend of hers emailed her pics of my Tinder account. My ex fell apart. She kept bothering me, coming to my house (we live in the same apartment complex) and calling/texting my phone. I still ignored her. I did answer the door at one point to ask what she wanted but she asked for something so I said no and shut the door. Well, she caught me outside taking the dog to the restroom. We cried and said she missed me and loved me. She said she was jealous. I was stern and hard. Eventually and hour are so later she was with me in my house and you can guess what happened from there. The next day she tried to schedule a family day for us and the kids. I told her no until she did what I mentioned that night. She needed to come to therapy, give up the guy she cheated with, along with other things. Well, a few days later I gave her the chance to be my girlfriend and she said as she promised to come to therapy. She said she wanted to talk to the therapist first. She is having issues with the idea "What if I can do better." She is worried there might be something out there better for her. She is not into the guy she had the affair with and said if we get back together he will be gone. What do you make of this? She is willing to get help and I do love her. I actually was moving on. She knows and has admitted that she knows she has little time and that I will be gone soon if she does not make a decision. Is this fixable? What should I do and how should I handle it?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[bugwaterguy]

Have you read the Stop Walking On Eggshells Workbook?  That has a lot of questions that will help you determine about staying or going.

I would have concerns about her talking to the therapist first.   She might be trying to set you up.  Is the therapist familiar with BPD?

[formflier]

Wow..what a whirlwind.

I need more information before I can advise at all.

Has anything like this ever happened before?  If so, please provide details.

I see kids mentioned.  How many, who are the bio parents, ages?

Why do you think she cheated?  Any guess what she was "looking for"?

Best,

FF

[ThatConfusedGuy]

Well, things have changed. She went on a 3 hour road trip (to retrieve my stolen vehicle) with me yesterday. She said she felt the therapist could help us and she does not think she has BPD. She thinks the idea of BPD is stupid. After the trip she said she did not feel connected anymore and that coming back to me was a mistake. Now she will not keep going to therapy, but will do one session to tell the therapist her feelings and help me left go. She admits that this is all her fault and she should not have let the jealousy cause her to chase me down. She says when she is at home she is happy but misses me. At my house she feel she doesn't belong. What do I do to solve this? The therapist is not a BPD expert. How do I help this last session open up her eyes and turn this around. I do love her with all my heart.

[bugwaterguy]

I feel for you.  I am in a similar situation.  The desperation that one therapy session could cause an epiphany is something I wanted too.

If she isn't ready for help - there isn't much you can do for her.  And there are many things you can do for yourself.

If the therapist isn't familiar with BPD, there is a danger that things might get worse.  (I personally have had this happen)  Would you consider finding a different therapist who has experience with BPD?  You might want individual therapy for yourself - then when you are ready - take her up on her offer for a session.   That session should be not with the one you see individually, but a separate counselor.

[ThatConfusedGuy]

Those are not options. The longer I wait, the less chance she will even go. Also, she is saying she is going to let me go. So, it's now or never. What should we focus on? I want to help her and fix this over time. I can get a different therapist later. I just need to convince her we can fix this and to keep getting help. She just splits so quick, especially when there can be any confrontation. She don't mind yelling at me, but she has issues facing other people or herself.

[kells76]

Same boat as formflier, this is quite a whirlwind.

That being said, we can focus on one thing at a time.

You're here on "bettering", and I hear you want to improve the relationship. Interestingly, it may take some pretty non-intuitive moves to nudge your relationship onto that path.

It's tempting to want to "convince" the other person that "we can do it!". If your relational issues were caused by a lack of information, then maybe presenting facts like that would help.

Instead, I strongly suspect that any "vibes" she gets from you about "convincing" her of anything, will backfire. Because what she probably wants most of all, MUCH more than "being convinced", is... being heard.

If it were me, I'd go into the one session with the mindset of "I am here to listen to you... what you feel is important to me... I just want to hear what you have to share".

No debate, no "why did you do that", no "can't you see we can make it work", no "but I love you so much". These are the things we want to say, that can deeply undermine restarting a relationship on healthier ground.

Keep the focus on "open listening". Give her the floor to express... whatever. Yes, there may be some curveballs. Practice some neutral, warm responses ahead of time -- stuff like "Babe... wow. There's a lot for me to take in" (with warmth, togetherness, no judgment).

If there are some really huge "whoppers" that get dropped ("You beat me with a rusty chain... you tried to run me over with the tractor... blah blah blah") -- again, don't JADE. Again, if we're keeping the focus on just this one session, show her that you can be a listener to the feelings behind her words. This is where the "babe... I'm speechless. There's a lot for us to unpack here" type response might be a win-win (you show you're listening without validating an invalid assertion).

...

To sum it up -- don't go into the session with desperation about trying to find the perfect facts to convince her that you guys can do it.

Show her, through your patient, neutral, non-JADEing listening, that you care about the feelings expressed behind her words.

See how that goes.

[ThatConfusedGuy]

Kells,

You may have the best approach. I have given her all the facts, looked at the cycles she goes through...all of that. She even agrees it's an issue. As time goes on she dismisses it all and mocks it. I try just listening, but I do tend to fail here as she makes up a lot of stuff that just ain't true. Like, "You never cuddle with me." I try all the time. I love cuddling with her, but she pushes me away. It is hard listening to the false claims. Still, I need to and you are right. I will try this approach and whatever the therapist uses.

[kells76]

I do tend to fail here as she makes up a lot of stuff that just ain't true. Like, "You never cuddle with me." I try all the time. I love cuddling with her, but she pushes me away.

You're in a relationship with someone for whom words may be more of a means to express underlying, internal feelings, than a means to communicate accurately.

Learning new tools and skills to navigate that profound difference will be crucial if you want to continue to be together.

It's really, really, really different. Kind of like realizing that your SO has a pervasive disability.

It's possible that she may, over time, be able to take those moments of "agreeing it's an issue", and build on those, and have some more awareness and control. It really depends on what she wants and chooses.

If you're able to radically accept (i.e., "I see that this is who she is") that she will likely always be someone for whom words are for emotional expression, versus communication of facts, then you may be able to find some workability in staying together.

Interested to hear how the "I'm here to listen to you" vibes go in the session...

[formflier]

I have given her all the facts

And this has resulted in a  (a) positive outcome or (b) negative outcome (or at least not the outcome you were hoping for)?


So...watch this video...and then see if you "get" the point I am hoping you will get.




How do you help someone with BPD?


Something like "based on this video I should STOP (fill in the blank) and START (fill in the blank)

Best,

FF

[ThatConfusedGuy]

Formflier,

I enjoy Jordan. He is right but it is really hard to accept. If I didn't love her it would be so easy. Still, it needs to happen.

[formflier]

Formflier,

I enjoy Jordan. He is right but it is really hard to accept. If I didn't love her it would be so easy. Still, it needs to happen.

So...hard to accept or not.

The answer to my question, based on this video is...?

I need to stop (blank) and start (blank)

And...yes...this was and is very hard for me to accept as well, however I have the benefit of time...to see that what doesn't make sense...actually works.

Best,

FF

[ThatConfusedGuy]

So...hard to accept or not.

The answer to my question, based on this video is...?

I need to stop (blank) and start (blank)

To answer your question. I need to stop trying to solve an impossible puzzle and trying to fix her. I need to start focusing on myself and my kids again.

I have been doing these things. I was getting better. Then she begged me back. I really was doing better.

[formflier]

I don't disagree with anything you have said...I would like to add some perspective to this that I think if you reflect on it for a while...will be significant.

Oh..and glad you like Jordan..he has a way of clarifying and simplifying.

Try these on for size  "  I need to stop using a factual, persuasive approach to "getting help" for my pwBPD.  I need to start listening, using a feelings based approach (as opposed to technical accuracy with words).   (kells76 makes this point in a couple of ways above...good thing to read again)

And yes...this is hard.  My first degree is in communications.  I spent most of my professional career in the Navy in "command and control" so I'm either communicating with or making sure Sailors in a battlegroup and communicating effectively and accurately (kinda important when you are making things go boom).

Well...so imagine my distress when "you NEVER cuddle with me." really means "I don't feel close to you, so I'm saying it's your fault because it's too shameful to look at myself"  (yes...FF was bonkers about that for a while)

And for a while I tried to solve it by convincing her she should communicate like "everyone else"...where never should actually mean...you know...never.

Well..luckily I took some of Jordan's advice and realized that if what you are doing isn't helping...STTTTTOOPPPPPPPP  (A little FF flair there...let's just say I didn't pay attention to the stop part at first..it's important.)

Final word for this post:  The "bonkers" feelings I had about never not meaning never were NOT my wife's fault...those are/were my feelings and were mine to work with.

How are you doing with your feelings about this entire BPD thing?

Best,

FF

[ThatConfusedGuy]

Well, we went to therapy yesterday. On my way there my ex told me we would see what our options were. The therapist talked with us together and separately. My ex said she was sorry for begging me back. It was a mistake and that she does not see a future with me. Also, the therapist asked her to see help as she does not know how to love herself or others. My ex agreed to it. I asked my ex if she worked on herself if we could try again in the future and she said she did not know. The therapist told me my ex is very shameful and regrets hurting me, but shuts down to me when she sees the pain she caused me. This is why I see the lack of empathy. he feels it, but puts up a wall as she can't face it. So, we are separate. We will still have interaction for the boy I helped raise. My hope is that why we are separate that she really will seek help and we can try again when she learns how to love herself and others. If she don't seek help then I can't go back to her. I feel like if I attracted her before I hopefully can do it again. For now, I need to let go and work on myself. What are your thoughts? Any chance on us in the future? Do you think she is a Borderline?

[formflier]

That's a lot to hear...and process...and reflect on.  How do you feel today about what you heard in therapy?


It's a positive sign that she was willing to listen and seek individual help.  Of all the "stories" that I'm aware of on BPD family...this outcome from therapy is NOT the most common...it's good she is on this track.

Will she stay on this track?  Who knows?  Ultimately there is risk in all relationships, probably fair to say more in relationship with someone that displays "borderline behaviors".

Again..how do you feel about what you have heard in therapy?

Best,

FF

[ThatConfusedGuy]

What do I feel? Pain and fear.

Pain - It hurts hearing she didn't see a future with me. It hurts  knowing she doesn't love me and possibly never did.

Fear - That she will seek help and then fall in love with someone else.

She said she will try to seek help. Often this is a copout phrase for her. My mind says it is but my gut said she meant it. She changes her mind on things so much though I worry she won't. If she don't then I don't want her back. That being said, if she really does. What do you think the chances of us mending this later?

[formflier]

How do you plan to care for your feelings?

So the chances of you guys mending this are "better than average" (how is that for a broad statement)...perhaps "more likely than not" is a better way to say it.  My reasoning on this centers on her showing up for therapy, that's a good sign.

Best,

FF

[ThatConfusedGuy]

I feel we have a 5 year history too in which I took good care of her and her son the 2 years they lived with me. This gives me some hope.

As for my feelings...taking time. I might go out and meet some people. But I do not plan on dating for now. I need to relax for a few weeks while my emotions mellow out and keep going to my support group. Go for walks, working out, and my country dance lessons. After that, start going out and enjoying life again...bigger more fun things. Meet new people and such. All this while focusing on myself and my kids. I am not going to lie, she will be in the back of my mind the whole time, but hopefully it will be manageable.