Sending this at 4PM, any feedback so appreciated MY SELF RESPECT IS IN IT

[Boisnix79]

Dear XXXXXX,

I care for you. I love you. I wish you were my wife and June 15th or so just stayed the same as it always was…... because since then our lives have gone downhill together…

What I wanted from our relationship:

You to move in, us to work, us to plan out future, be each other’s best friends, hang out with each others friends, get engaged, work hard, support each other emotionally, learn to love each others family, and finally be married and most probably have children (little baos). Live happily ever after.

What happened, cycles like this one (not to say this in the whole story, but its def one of the cycles we go through and a good example):

1.   I try for a solid week to be "perfect", build trust, take her to eat, be nice, etc... . just be a good BF in general and extra for her... because I truly love her…

2. I, in a gentle fashion, ask if we could go to a therapist to work on us. To work on our communication issues. She agrees in some weak form to the request and says she has no problem with it.

3. At a little later time I ask her what is a good day for the appt or something along those lines... . She ignores or changes subject... . successfully throws me off the goal for a short time... .

4. During this time she comes up with a reason why we are not meant to be... . could be anything, BUT, they always make "logical" sense... . like I can say, are you serious? and she says yes... . The way you are unstable isn’t compatible... . hmmmm... . or how I "just dont get her" which is her all time fav…there are a few others such as money that is used as needed…like I said they all make sense on the surface…so you get trapped in defending and explaining….

5. I try to coax, beg, ask, for us to go to therapy…

6. She says, crying sometimes, angry others, "you just think theres something wrong with me and youre tricking me to go to couples counseling when in your heart you know its only for me"

7. I react by saying its for us, working on us, and thats it.

8. She then goes back to the incompatibility. focuses that for a while... . and belittles me, OR takes the high road and says "its not your fault, its just not meant to be"... . hmmmm

9. So it took me a few times but I realized if I’m scared she thinks we aren’t even right for each other, then I'll probably be MUCH less likely to ask for therapy... . her plan is brilliant…and I can see its her brains way of protecting her…

10. It works sometimes, then I snap out of it and go HEY... . I’ve been tricked and I get so frustrated that occasionally I lose it with anger... OR

11. I say look hun, we need to go, its been a lot of verbal abuse, physcial fights at times, etc. Its time and we owe it to ourselves to make this work with a professional….

12... . she goes silent... . only to chime in "I agree that we would need counseling, and I have no issue with going... . the only problem is, WE arent compatible as people... . SO I will go to get help on my own and you go on your own... . Its very hard and I'm sorry."

13. I text her or she texts me or calls and we start the cycle over again soon after... .

When I’m honest with myself, this all comes from fear of abandonment, if we go into therapy together and everyone gets real and honest, the real you will be exposed, and you think I won't like it, because you don’t like it. You don’t want to be wrong and be blamed and told you’re not doing it right (because being told you aren’t doing it right is part of your original trauma). So all of the logical deflections and attention shifts have a common origin, fear. Unfortunately there's no way to appease that, because it isn't about me or what I do, it's about a replaying of the dynamic you’ve been running in your head since the original trauma when you were very young. At this time you know much more what that trauma is than I do. But you were hurt, and you felt abandoned, and you suffered, and you were criticized…I know those things...

You’ve come to the conclusion that you are messed up and you need someone that will just put up with it…”a push over” ….but that is the worst possible thing for you. You need someone that is strong and willing to set boundaries and be healthy, someone that pushes you to face yourself…and cares for you deeply…an intelligent, strong and loving person willing to stand up to you when needed….

Part of being strong for someone is not letting them run the show when they aren’t running it well. I know my worth. In the end if you decide our relationship isn’t worth getting help for yourself and for us, then so be it. But at this point I CANNOT ACCEPT ANY LESS than us going to therapy together and really talking about these unhealthy patterns….What I can tell you is that I’ve done a lot of research about what I think is going on here, I know the expectations of someone that is put in this position, and I care for you and am willing to put my all into us. You’ve tried to leave me before I leave too many times to count and yet I’m still here loving you. The only thing I won’t do is replay the cycle above anymore.

I know money is a concern for you, and your culture and preference is that we have enough down payment to buy a home before we are married. Which I believe is a reasonable request. I would be willing to discuss this more in therapy. At this time though, marriage isn’t on my radar with us other than knowing you are someone I can see myself being with forever. We have a few things we need to do before marriage should be discussed further.

Is everything your fault, NO. Do I have issues to work on, YES. Am I willing to, YES. It wont be easy or comfortable, it will probably be about our childhoods and we’ll probably each need to see a therapist on our own, and learn tools that will help us cope with what we are faced with. It will be confronting, scary, might feel like youre going down before it feels like youre going up.

Will it be worth it? Yes, I think it will.

I’ve sent all the mushy love letters many times to you, the begging, end of relationship letters, and all the other ones that I over promised in. Of all the letters I’ve sent you though, this one has the most love and hope, for each of us. You said you needed unconditional love when we first met, I now know what you mean…... and this is my form of unconditional love.

If you’re willing to get help with me and start to build a more solid future together, then please let me know…

I love you and always will, sadly i know even married later in my life I'll miss you... . I'll in some ways wish it was you... . don't make me go through that little one! LOL Yuck

Hope to hear from you soon,

Sincerely,

ME

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[elemental]

It seems to me that underlying all of this is that she is expressing shame.

She is imperfect and you are (to her) clearly tagging her as the culprit. As a result, she feels self disgust, which she feels is being triggered by you, so she wants to back away and basically since you are not willing, in her mind, to account for what YOU are causing, she is refusing to let you make her a scapegoat.

She is either unwilling or unable to allow your further shaming of her.

Back off from her. Stop sending messages full of JADEing. Give her space and time to think.

jmo.

[Boisnix79]

Zencat,

I guess I'm really just at the point that she either gets some help, or I leave. What do I do?

What if I cannot wait anymore, I've been doing that for too long... . Do I just break up instead?

Im lost.

[Boisnix79]

Agreed, and you're right on with the shame... . but how do I get around that?

Bottom line is how can I possibly get her/us some help... . yes i know accepting her and all of that is important... . but isnt getting help also important?

I feel I've tried everything, but maybe I havent... . what would you do?

[crazedncrazymom]

Hi Boisnix79 and    I'm so sorry you're feeling so confused now.  I can see how hard you're trying to love this woman.  The fact is we can't make someone change themselves.  We can only work on ourselves and our own communication skills and boundaries.  By changing yourself you force her to change.  It would be much easier if she could see her part of the problem and not be so afraid to face it, but she is.   

This is a great site for finding support for yourself.  There are lots of tips for gaining new communication skills. For instance, if she yells at you about something and you yell back, defend yourself or silently accept being berated, that becomes acceptable in your relationship.  If she yells at you and you say, please don't talk to me that way and walk away, the yelling becomes unacceptable.  It's best if you talk to her during a calm time and talk about time outs.  If either of you become too upset to have a talk then we will take a time out and meet later to continue the discussion.

I found some links you may find helpful:


BPD: What is it? How can I tell?

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth

[elemental]

I would go quiet.

And wait.

Your mail is so full of scary requests, explanations, do this or I leave, controlling, demanding.

Obviously you feel very strongly. Of course you do, it's all very frustrating and painful.

But. Is she someone you love? You just hit this site. Did you learn the lessons yet?

That is a huge letter and it's saying one really big thing:

Do it or we are done.

The thing with ultimatums, you really paint yourself into a corner. You have to enforce them.

Boundries on the other hand... .

Don't send the letter. Take a huge step back. Very often you can through to people by staying centered and calm and allowing them to have the space to think on things.

And your time table, ditch it. Because until the two of you are on the same time zone without you threatening her into it, you will lose.  

That letter is a guarantee to make it worse.

Give yourself a week or so break. Or more, on this. Detach from the outcome. For now. Learn the lessons, cause that letter is one massive JADE.

Sorry, I know it is hard.  

[Boisnix79]

Zen. That's exactly why I posted it before sending it... . I'm really grateful to you for your input.

Maybe I need the space as much as she does anyway... . actually I know I do... .

I'm not sending it... . Trying to look at it as one huge win/win, if we work then thats amazing, if we don't then I'm learning valuable lessons that will last forever... . like the one you just taught me... .

":)on't send the letter. Take a huge step back. Very often you can through to people by staying centered and calm and allowing them to have the space to think on things.

And your time table, ditch it. Because until the two of you are on the same time zone without you threatening her into it, you will lose." 

Made me think of other times in my life I've tried to force an issue, it never really turns out well... . and it always has to be their decision I suppose... .

You truly are a ZEN master

[elemental]

I wish I was a zen master. It's so hard to follow through on things for me. The only productive things I have been able to do lately is take time and distance myself. It's giving me clarity and my BPD guy seems to be understanding my side of things better, too.

[waverider]

Most of us have been at this desperate stage.

The main advantage of writing letters like this is to put down in front of us our thoughts so we can see some sort of order,. However sending letters rarely work with pwBPD. It just triggers defensiveness, she will not see any good and reinterpret the bad with aim of turning into onto you as an unrealistic villain. You will be further invalidated and frustrated.

Requests and demands dont work. Only actioned boundaries.

You are dealing with a big tangle ball of string and are despondent as you have no idea how to start untangling it. Some knots are impossible to untangle and some are not as hard as they first seem

Keep posting here and you will start to see some order in which to proceed a little bit at a time. . You will learn a lot in the process