Is it hopeless to get her back?

[CryWolf]

Tried finding a picture on my computer I just uploaded, and then all these pictures of me and her popped up from throughout the years. as well as cute pics of text messages we shared. These feelings hurt.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[CryWolf]

I feel sick to my stomach. She wrote about me today. She said " Im sensitive, emotional, talkative, wild, adventerous. Been told all of this so i learn to be emotionless and apathetic. Stopped communicating properly. Still working on these. I have a hard time communicating my feelings. I can talk to my friends but not my significant other because im scared theyll raise their voice at me or dismiss my feelings. I got more support and validation from my friends than i ever did from the last two boyfriends combined. Ive been trying to work on it my most relationship but I kept getting shot down and always had things turned against me. Its so demoralizing"

I tried calling her after I read this. Im still blocked. I really want to do something, because I feel terrible I made her feel this way and did not understand her BPD or communicate. I was "jading" and making her feel invalidated, although I did try to listen and communicate with her and she would give me the silent treatment. I dont know what i can do without pushing her away.

I dont want to lose her. She is posting a lot about one of her male friends, and I feel like she may start to idealize him. She even mentions him in very similar posts and things we used to talk about but now writes his name under the posts. She also mentions that she is single and is learning to be happy with being single and there other things to focus on. Im assuming this guy is giving her this advice because she wrote his name under the post. 

Please help.

[CryWolf]

It's ironic, because everything she wrote is how I felt. She would criticize my music, taste in certain fashion, shows I watch, certain foods I eat, mostly everything. I would try to communicate during her "episodes" of rage and she would say "oh god here we go again" making me feel so ___ing devalued. She would tell me "woe is me" and I had a victim complex when I wanted to adress her actions and how they weren't right. Kicking me out of her house.  I became more and more distant to protect myself.

I gave her this space, and now she thinks I abandoned her and left her and she is a victim now.

[once removed]

she thinks I abandoned her and left her and she is a victim now.

CryWolf,

this is a hallmark of the disorder, and something of an inevitability.

im not saying you played no role or made no mistakes, we all did. but people with traits of this disorder see the world, themselves, others, in black and white, and tend to see themselves as victims, that bad things happen to them, and tend to discount responsibility. its not unique to BPD by any means, but it is, as i said, a hallmark of the disorder.

what im saying here, is dont personalize this too much. its where learning more about the disorder and the experiences of others can really help to depersonalize things, as hurtful as they are.

youre not doing the wrong thing by giving her space. trust us on this. sometimes clarity can take a little bit longer for someone with these traits, coping style, and world view.

more on a BPD belief system here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=67059.msg644937#msg644937

[CryWolf]

Thank you Once removed,

I just bought the ebook "Stop walking on egg shells" to help me understand more. I know she cant take responsibility, but she is saying everything she did to me and how she made me feel  but I did it to her which I don't understand because I was patient and caring with her. I told her I was always there for her. Is this projection and shame for what she did to me? im not sure how projection really works. 

Sorry if im like a broken record, but how will more space during this time improve my situation if right now she says these things about me and how I "demoralized" her? Everything in my body wants to reach out. I wrote a letter to say thank you and apologize for my mistakes and thanked her for all the memories and etc. I also wrote a letter for her parents who hate me and just thanked them for letting me in the house and apologize for any disrespect I brought to them (even though I didnt). This may seem excessive, but I wrote it to let feelings out. I do want to send it but dont want to push her away, like what everyone is suggesting. It's just hearing those things make you feel the need that you "have to do something" to fix the situation.

I will check out the link now, thank you!

[once removed]

I told her I was always there for her. Is this projection and shame for what she did to me? im not sure how projection really works. 

projection is a way of denying something we are uncomfortable with about ourselves and putting it on somewhat else. it is often mistaken for "hypocrisy"; there is overlap, but they arent exactly the same thing. when i was in middle school i had some weird quirks. when i found out a buddy shared them, i teased him about how weird it was. it was hypocritical, yes, but i was trying to off put something about myself i felt shame over.

when we put ourselves in someone elses shoes, try to read their mind, or ascribe them motives, there is usually some form of projection going on. for example, if we have low self esteem, we are more likely to see others as against us or not liking us, or we may be more sensitive to perceived slights that arent necessarily there.

Sorry if im like a broken record, but how will more space during this time improve my situation if right now she says these things about me and how I "demoralized" her?

CryWolf, reread what was going on when you arrived here. you were overpursuing, and it was pushing her away. you have now heeded and respected her wishes. that, first and foremost, is a must.

additionally, reaching out to her and rehashing this stuff is not going to convince her otherwise, its going to reinforce her beliefs.

and lastly, the stages of grief are not linear, and what shes feeling is likely not permanent. i went through all sorts of stages with my ex. i hated her. i had revenge and "justice" fantasies. i felt like a victim. over time and through work and learning, i came to a lot more clarity and objectivity, and of course the raw feelings and nerves naturally dissipated. its important to let her go through this without trying to rescue or soothe her, and again, doing so will likely reinforce her beliefs.

It's just hearing those things make you feel the need that you "have to do something" to fix the situation.

i completely understand this. i lived it every day. CryWolf, i did stuff in high school that i STILL kick myself for. in my experience, acting on those urges has tended to work against me. it is desperate, and it tends to come off that way. whats been invaluable to me is to sit with and work through those feelings. remember, very little has changed, and things can feel more urgent than they are.

but furthermore, lets say you send those letters. wouldnt it be more of the same (overcompensating)? wouldnt it be validating her current thoughts and feelings about you and the relationship, a perspective you dont agree with, and feelings that by their nature, are subject to change anyway?

writing this stuff is a great exercise, as you said, it helps vent the feelings. if you want to reach out, i think a much lighter, more upbeat approach would be more likely to yield success.

[CryWolf]

CryWolf, reread what was going on when you arrived here. you were overpursuing, and it was pushing her away. you have now heeded and respected her wishes. that, first and foremost, is a must.

additionally, reaching out to her and rehashing this stuff is not going to convince her otherwise, its going to reinforce her beliefs.

When we first met she told me she didnt like space, and told me that if she got space from me she would move on and I shouldnt expect her to come back. This still resonates with me. And she does a good way of showing it. She is so stubborn and even told me one time, "even if im sorry and its my fault or miss you and I want to be with you, I wont come back due to my pride".

You're right. I dont want to push her away anymore. Her ex used to do all this when me and her were together. He would drop off candy and letters and flowers and etc. It only pushed her more towards me. However she did cry one time during one of his letters.

Another note, at times when she'd break up with me right before her bday or holiday. I still would give her a gift because I already bought it. Or she would give me a gift even though we broke up and it was her apologizing.  And we'd get back together. Still not a good approach to things.

and lastly, the stages of grief are not linear, and what shes feeling is likely not permanent. i went through all sorts of stages with my ex. i hated her. i had revenge and "justice" fantasies. i felt like a victim. over time and through work and learning, i came to a lot more clarity and objectivity, and of course the raw feelings and nerves naturally dissipated. its important to let her go through this without trying to rescue or soothe her, and again, doing so will likely reinforce her beliefs.
 

Youre right, everyone grieves differently and processes emotions differently. I guess Im scared because I dont know how people with BPD process things? She wont take responsibility, so how will she see her fault or see the good in me?

Ive always rescued or soothed her after a breakup. Always chased, begged, pleaded when she broke up with me. Every time. I never let her feelings process or give her space and time. Going back to the fear, that space would make her forget me and leave and her not liking space. Or when I would ask for space, she would tell me "dont expect me to be here" literally putting fear in me.

Another thing, she hates her ex. She despises him and hates him to this day. Maybe because he still stalks her and drives by her house at night and sends his family members to drive by as well... crazy right? Yet, she is comparing me to him and putting us in the same category. With BPD, how will she take me out of that same category with someone as despicable? Does the same process of time and space work for this?

but furthermore, lets say you send those letters. wouldnt it be more of the same (overcompensating)? wouldnt it be validating her current thoughts and feelings about you and the relationship, a perspective you dont agree with, and feelings that by their nature, are subject to change anyway?

writing this stuff is a great exercise, as you said, it helps vent the feelings. if you want to reach out, i think a much lighter, more upbeat approach would be more likely to yield success.

You're right it would be overcompensating. I sent her a christmas present for her and her brother and she never said thank you or messaged me.Nothing. When I gave her my notes, i included a small present for one of her hobbies. Didn't work.

The only way for me to reach out is through school email (which i have before) since im blocked on everything, and she never read my fb message from last week. I don't want to be desperate anymore.


Sidenote: I posted a picture on social media, and a pretty attractive girl commented on it and said "we should go hiking". me and my ex used to love hiking, but we stopped for a long time. I was going to delete the comment or not reply to it, because i'm worried if my ex saw it, it might make things worse. But i do want her to wander, like i wander about her.

[once removed]

When we first met she told me she didnt like space, and told me that if she got space from me she would move on and I shouldnt expect her to come back. This still resonates with me. And she does a good way of showing it. She is so stubborn and even told me one time, "even if im sorry and its my fault or miss you and I want to be with you, I wont come back due to my pride".

i take this to mean: in the confines of a relationship, if you get distant (abandon) on me, ill make you sorry. people with BPD traits tend to take our own need for space as punishment or rejection. for example, my ex would lose it on me, and id need some time to shake it off. she never understood. i once described my need for alone time, the sort that we all need. she interpreted that as my "need to get away from her".

i dont think this really applies to the situation now (if someone requests space i dont think we have much other option than to give it to them) and may have been "just talk". after all, youre reading her describe a lot of contradictory behavior, right? remember the impulsive nature of BPD: people with BPD have a way of making these sorts of declarations, that are subject to change.

Youre right, everyone grieves differently and processes emotions differently. I guess Im scared because I dont know how people with BPD process things? She wont take responsibility, so how will she see her fault or see the good in me?

keep reading and working the lessons to the right of the board. knowledge is power. remember what i said about when youre mad at someone and have a grudge, and then you recall them suddenly and cant even remember why youre mad. she doesnt have to take responsibility or fault for that to occur.

The only way for me to reach out is through school email (which i have before) since im blocked on everything, and she never read my fb message from last week. I don't want to be desperate anymore.

i think if you were going to reach out (im not sure now is the time), a light, upbeat, and brief message, like sharing a bit of news you think shed be interested in; something along those lines. as you say, thats not really an option right now. i dont think that matters too much. i think those kinds of opportunities have a way of presenting themselves. we dont know how or when, but they often do. i had an ex in high school with BPD traits. a few times, she cut me off. the first time she reached out after about three months. the second time took longer than that.

Sidenote: I posted a picture on social media, and a pretty attractive girl commented on it and said "we should go hiking". me and my ex used to love hiking, but we stopped for a long time. I was going to delete the comment or not reply to it, because i'm worried if my ex saw it, it might make things worse. But i do want her to wander, like i wander about her.

dont walk on eggshells. dont be ruled by fear. something like this is very unlikely to make things worse. live your life authentically and pursue opportunities. that will be mighty attractive.

[CryWolf]

Update: so I walked into a building and saw a classmate. I didn’t go to class and asked about the quiz I missed. Then we started talking and I initially met him with my family at a store he worked at. Small world. So we talk about classes and I see one of the guys my ex sat with right next to him. He keeps looking at his phone and I realize my ex is in their class. The guy gets up and starts walking around looking for her. I saw my ex go in the bathroom. I decided to stay a bit longer and conversate so my ex sees me looking well dressed and happy. And the classmate I’m talking to, I ask for his name because We never formally introduced and he said the name my ex was posting on her tumblr... .wow. Right? So I offered if he needed tutoring in his current class or if he wanted to study for our exam together. The other guy I think likes her or something cuz he was searching for her and constantly checking his phone. He didn’t even make eye contact with me.

Then they were going to class and I turned around to leave for my class and my ex walked right passed me. She knew I was there and  didn’t want to look up from her phone to avoid contact. She was smiling. Either she was smiling at her phone or me. And she did the same thing last time she saw me when I walked past her. And she’s smiled before when she’s walked past me so many times trying to ignore me throughout the relationship. I know I’m not being delusional.

I feel kind of hopeful that she misses me but I hope I’m not in denial.i also hope this didn’t ruin things.  Any thoughts?

[CryWolf]

I dont even think she misses me after today or even cares. its almost 4 months now. Why cant i get over this? Why do i still feel like im being punished and she moved on a long time ago and im still holding on to nothing.

Sorry im so down right now.

[once removed]

he said the name my ex was posting on her tumblr... .wow. Right?

so you were chatting with a guy she mentioned on tumblr, do i have that right?

I feel kind of hopeful that she misses me but I hope I’m not in denial.i also hope this didn’t ruin things.  Any thoughts?

its hard to say. its not a bad thing.

how are you feeling today CryWolf? any update?

[CryWolf]

so you were chatting with a guy she mentioned on tumblr, do i have that right?

its hard to say. its not a bad thing.

how are you feeling today CryWolf? any update?

Yes it was one of the guys she kept mentioning on her blog. He is in my class as well. Last night i was overthinking like crazy about if she liked him or not and having obsessive thoughts and i started comparing myself to him. Very bad i know. I tried radical acceptance for a while. As well as i think they might just be friends, and she knows i check her blog so its probably to make me anxious and have some power and attention. She did also make a post saying how she likes "power". I dont think the friends she has been posting on her blog even have a blog or follow her.  this whole situation and her actions are completely strange and idk what she wants.

 Today she made a post mentioning both the guys regarding men in abusive relationships and how they should know their partners history first before they get in a relationship. So this makes me think they are just friends.

A part of me wants to email her still. but i dont think it will be reciprocated at this time.
 i dont do well with space and time because I dont think things will end in my favor. its something I have to work on.

I had an appointment with my therapist today and it went well. Talked about BPD and how some of the things she is accusing me of like the "demoralizaton", is actually her feelings from childhood towards her parents and not a reflection of who I am. I also had dinner with my coworker and pretty good day. The more clarity i feel or some sort of control, i have on the situation, I feel like I am doing better and have better judgement. However this changed sporadically.

I have a casual date with a girl tomorrow night for fun to get my mind off things. And mostly just post on my social media to get my ex jealous. this is so childish and im not this type of person, and it honestly feels like a high school relationship when you read from an outside view.  

[CryWolf]

I feel selfish i put my needs and wants above what she could handle. I feel like i pushed her too much and hurt her and i wish i understood BPD during that time of our relationship. Im trying not to blame myself that much and hope she can see all the changes i have been making.

[once removed]

I have a casual date with a girl tomorrow night for fun to get my mind off things. And mostly just post on my social media to get my ex jealous. this is so childish and im not this type of person, and it honestly feels like a high school relationship when you read from an outside view.  

theres a fine line between posting on social media to make your ex jealous, and just living your life as you would. the tricky thing is, the more youre living your life for you, as opposed to your ex, the more likely everyone is to notice your changes, and the more likely they are to become ingrained.

[CryWolf]

you’re right I shouldn’t have to manipulate anything.  At this moment it feels that  everything I’m doing is not working and she’s just moving on day by day. I’m getting desperate and that’s the last thing that I should feel. I guess it’s a part of my own insecurities and being impatient. I want to have a “take it or leave it attitude in life”. I want things to flow organically but at the same time I want her to see all the changes I’m making. How i am improving, learning these tools and being her best option. How I love her and how much she loves me. It’s hard when all she can see is the space I finally gave her but I am trusting everyone’s judgement and advice here. You all have much more experience and knowledge in this. You guys are all amazing. 

I love this girl and want to be with her, I want to marry her One day and etc. But right now it’s this battle against myself and I feel like I was finally discarded. The questions that keep lingering are “did she find some one new? Did she move on? Is she going To come back?” Over and over. And I’m doing my best to stop dwelling and becoming that confident person I first was.

The weekends are the worst. We used to spend time together and the pain is so deep. I want her back and to love her again and for her to love me again and just start over. Different approach in the relationship. This is the longest we’ve been apart.

[CryWolf]

Went on the date last night, and the whole time I was thinking of my ex. Last night we went to get dinner in the city, and right around the corner were these stores me and my ex went and explored. I had no idea the stores were all there. Crazy... So many memories came back from being there with my ex. Walked in the same stores with this girl, and I didnt like her traits. I was comparing little things she did to my ex, and noticed how my ex was so much more caring and courteous. My ex was so much more polite. I miss her so damn much. We went to have dinner, and the  conversations was nice, just casual. I felt nothing, and rather have brought my ex. I want to message my ex and apologize for being selfish and not accepting what she wanted and trying to have her stay with me and not respecting her wishes. Man, I messed up.

[once removed]

dating early on can have that effect sometimes.

do you feel like its one of those cases where it will get more comfortable as you continue, or something youd prefer to set aside for now?

[CryWolf]

dating early on can have that effect sometimes.

do you feel like its one of those cases where it will get more comfortable as you continue, or something youd prefer to set aside for now?

I think we are both good as friends (girl i went on date with). She is hung up on some dude, and was asking for my advice so im not going to pursue that but she is cool to hang out with here and there. Nothing wrong with friendship and her mannerism isnt something i can tolerate. My ex set the bar high.

I saw my therapist today, and he told me to practice mindfulness. to stop trying to use logic and reasoning to answer everything but use emotions and feelings to answers my breakup. He said i can never find out why my ex does what she does or how she feels without her telling me. and everything else is assumptions. how social media is all what a person puts out. she could be sad and longing for you every second and not post about it. you never know. He told me that i need to live in the present. not focusing on what went wrong or when she'll come back. which i have been doing for the past 4 months. its been such a haze that i cant even recall what i did the past 4 months but read about BPD and be on here and try to use logic behind her posts on her blog.

i miss her so much. i wish i could give her an apology for jading her, withdrawing and not being a confident and strong person like i was. My absense hopefully will show her that i changed. but i dont know to be honest. and i have to accept it. i have to accept that i might be painted black forever now. and if i do reach out she might use it against me that i hound her and it feeds into her ego.

[CryWolf]

Update: Feelings of obsessive thoughts have subsided. I have more hopeful thinking. I start telling myself she misses me too and thinks of me too.

Today, went to class and that friend she mentioned on her blog is in my class. We spoke in the bathroom a bit, then after class walked and talked about random stuff. I dont think he is her type so i was probably overthinking for no reason. Havent checked her blog since Friday. This is the longest streak for me. Almost broke it last night, but Im happy I didnt.

I want to send her a lighthearted upbeat email but I dont know if this is a mistake. And i dont know what i would say without her thinking its some pathetic attempt for her attention.

I had positive dreams about her coming back in my life and being together, as opposed to her being with other people in my dreams last month.

[CryWolf]

Longing for her right now and just wishing to see her. I remember we were hanging out during the break up and we were making plans to go to Chicago and travel and have a good time. Now here we are. A week before the breakup she’s was telling me I was all she had. I miss her so damn ___ing much.

[CryWolf]

I texted her saying “I think I still have you’re notebook”

iMessage was sent as a a regular message so I know I’m still blocked. I thought she would unblock me by now.

I want to send her an email, and leave it at that. But im not sure what’s to say. I want to reestablish communication. 

 It’s funny because I opened my school email and read an email I sent her last year during 4/13/17 and when she read it she unblocked me that night. We got into a huge argument but made up after that email. Not saying this will get Me the same outcome but it’s the only form of communication left. In the email I sent last year, I mentioned how much I love her, saying goodbyes and thank you and reassuring her I neve cheated which she was blaming me for.

Thoughts?

[once removed]

so she didnt get the text about the notebook, do i have that right?

if you want to reach out, i would have some kind of light hearted news to share, or something that made you think of her. id post it here first, get some feedback.

but be advised this is the last resort card youve got to play, and theres little to nothing to be done if she doesnt respond.

[CryWolf]

so she didnt get the text about the notebook, do i have that right?

if you want to reach out, i would have some kind of light hearted news to share, or something that made you think of her. id post it here first, get some feedback.

but be advised this is the last resort card youve got to play, and theres little to nothing to be done if she doesnt respond.

Hey once removed! Yes the message took a while to "deliver" and wasnt sent as imessage so it means im still blocked.

uhhh, I just sent her an email about 10 minutes before your reply. I hope I didnt ruin things but i left the message as cheerful as I could and not be jading in any aspect or come off negative in anyway. I know her, and she knows when Im usually texting something random as some "desperate attempt" so I didnt want to message her about school, or how shes doing because she could read right through it. the message I sent, personally feel like it would better resonate with her in the long run. Looking back, during our hardest breakups, she wouuld block me on all structures and i would email as a last resort, around the same time of last year i also sent her a "final email" and it worked well with her to show i cared. Im not saying this will have the same effects but I wanted to show how i changed and i can make her feel validated.

What are your thoughts? I hope i did the right thing.

I said:

Dear ___,

I don’t expect a response back from you and that’s okay. I have accepted that you have moved on and I’m truly happy for you. I never had the chance to say this before, but I want to thank your parents for allowing me in their home even when it was against their liking. Thank you for standing up to them and involving me in your life. I have nothing but respect for them for doing their job as parents.

Furthermore, I want to thank you for all the memories we shared. I want to thank you for coming into my life and sharing this beautiful chapter together. They may not resonate with you at this time in your life but we truly had beautiful experiences that could never be replaced. You may paint me black and hate me. That’s something I understand and have come to terms with in my life. I hope you do remember the moments of happiness we entailed together. I hope you remember all the jokes and laugh’s we shared. In hindsight, we were two people that loved each other so much, and sadly couldn’t express it correctly that it inevitably pushed each other away. If you are ready to have me in your life, I am here. I understand if this will only hurt you and I know you have feelings which come first. I am okay with whichever you choose. Thank you for loving my siblings and being like a big sister to them. They ask about you and I tell them you are doing well. Finally, thank you for loving me, and thank you for allowing me to love you. As always, I am wishing you the best in everything you do in your life and I will be cheering you on from afar.


Love,
A___

ps (inserted an inside joke between us)

[once removed]

it sounds like you got things off your chest... .lets see what she does with it.

[CryWolf]

it sounds like you got things off your chest... .lets see what she does with it.

That does not sound good.  

I felt great sending it, and its been something ive been writing the past few days to ensure a positive vibe to it.
Now I am kicking myself in the head.

[once removed]

it was fine CryWolf. it was a "closure" message. its one you can feel good about if she doesnt respond. it leaves the ball in her court.

[CryWolf]

it was fine CryWolf. it was a "closure" message. its one you can feel good about if she doesnt respond. it leaves the ball in her court.

Thank you for the reassurance.     

The reason I mentioned "for her to choose" is because she likes to feel in control or have the power of the relationship on her terms. Been like this for 3 years. I wanted a relationship at first and she just wanted friendship. i agreed, then that night she wanted sex. then i wanted friendship and acted like a friend, she acted more like gf.
I also mentioned "painting me black" because she has been going to therapy and she mentioned it on her blog. and im sure by now she knows her BPD symptoms since she is diagnosed.

my message was to hopefully show her how ive been thinking about the mistakes made and how i have worked on myself and idk. I dont expect her to respond to be honest. and sending her an update over school email when everything else is blocked just may have been pathetic because me and her never do that.

[FaithfulInLove]

Dear Crywolf

I can relate to you so well, your story might be different from mine, but emotionally we're in the same place l guess.
I just wanna send you strength and best wishes. I hope things will work out for you, l wish l could give you some good advice.
I know how hard it is, but keep your head up. I think you've done everything you could've done to safe things. It's her turn now to get clear about her feelings and reach out to you. You made it clear that you won't push her away if he feels like letting her into your life again.

[CryWolf]

Dear Crywolf

I can relate to you so well, your story might be different from mine, but emotionally we're in the same place l guess.
I just wanna send you strength and best wishes. I hope things will work out for you, l wish l could give you some good advice.
I know how hard it is, but keep your head up. I think you've done everything you could've done to safe things. It's her turn now to get clear about her feelings and reach out to you. You made it clear that you won't push her away if he feels like letting her into your life again.

Thank you so much for this. i read this before having lunch with my family and it made me feel really warm on the inside and I have not felt like this in a while.

Im sorry about your situation and I hope things turn up for you. What works best for me is sharing! and reading other users situations and helping anyway I can. We are all here together and helping another up in our lowest points.

[isilme]

Hello,

I am locking this thread because it has reached its length limit. The post originator is welcomed to open a continuation thread on this topic.  Have a great day.