How do you deal with the hate?

[Verbena]

[I find it much harder to cope with the triangulating (getting people to side with her) and the 'distortion campaigns' that my sd32 starts every time she is upset with anyone. She has a real talent to destroy other people's reputation while making it impossible for the attacked person to set the record straight (any defense would usually make the person look somewhat guilty).[/quote]
This is EXACTLY how I feel right now. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

I felt so much anger for others who I felt were complicit in giving my dd permission to treat me badly by seeming to agree that I was too strict a mum (because I didn't want my dd doing drugs, engaging in promiscuity, behaving disrespectfully etc). To me they would say 'she will grow out of it', ie grow out of her maladaptive behaviours... .  

Well now she is 32 and people are beginning to see for themselves. But more than that now that dh and I are 'on the same page' and she can't split us anymore, we are more or less up front about our own pain and her real condition. Of course what we say depends on who we are talking to, but we use the words 'mental illness' freely.

Today most people are kind and gently with us, no more blaming of me (us) - with the rare exception which I will continue to work on 

I don't bother about defending myself at all. I say up front, dd accuses me of a lifetime of abuse and dh of standing by and watching. If people don't trust me, they do trust my dh and know that is just not true. She had a mental illness and needs to find someone to blame - she knows she is a good person deep inside so she can't be to blame. Of course, no-one is to blame, it is how it is!

cheers,

Vivek    

[pessim-optimist]

I know, I am so sorry Verbena... .     

But this too shall pass... .  

[ellie01]

I know how hard it is, I have been called so many things from my 26 year old daughter, she even wished death on me so many times. Then she pushes my buttons so bad that sometimes I wish she was dead... .  then I hate myself so much for thinking that way about my daughter. I guess the only thing that we can remember is there is a severe mental illness... .  and I really think that they love... .  but they can't show it.

[vivekananda]

Hi ellie  ,

I am glad to see you have joined us. We have much we can learn from each other and from this site here. While you get to learn how to walk on our boards, you might want to have a look at this:

What it means to be in the FOG

It talks about the FOG - fear, obligation and guilt. It is as good a place as any to begin your journey with us hear... .  yep, we are on a journey I reckon.

I haven't seen whether you have started your own thread on the 'parent's board' yet, have you?

cheers,

Vivek     

[sunshineplease]

In Nonviolent Communication, we practice seeing the needs behind the behavior. Hard to do in the moment, I know, but I sometimes can do it once I calm down!

[jellibeans]

I have come to realize that when my dd is treating me the worst are the times she is feel pretty bad about herself or her situation. She projects everything on to me or other around her... .  these are the times I know she is in pain because she wants all around her to feel the pain she is in. If I can look at it that way then her words can't hurt me.

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it most.”

[lbjnltx]

I have come to realize that when my dd is treating me the worst are the times she is feel pretty bad about herself or her situation. She projects everything on to me or other around her... .  these are the times I know she is in pain because she wants all around her to feel the pain she is in. If I can look at it that way then her words can't hurt me.

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it most.”

THis is a wisemind response... .  a balance of emotional thoughts and reasoning thoughts.  When we are in wisemind we are able to set aside our hurt to be able to see their hurt.  When we make this shift in focus we are able to replace our pain with compassion for them.  This is where we can find relief... .  just how I see it and how it has worked for me as well.

[qcarolr]

I have come to realize that when my dd is treating me the worst are the times she is feel pretty bad about herself or her situation. She projects everything on to me or other around her... .  these are the times I know she is in pain because she wants all around her to feel the pain she is in. If I can look at it that way then her words can't hurt me.

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it most.”

Even with this understanding for my DD and the extreme stress she has brought on herself, I still have to stay phyically and emotionally distant from her right now. I have to keep gd away from her right now. And know that this will only deepen her anger towards me.

How do I deal with this?

Dh and I are on the same page, especially after he drove her yesterday attacking him verbally and throwing her drink all over him and his truck cab because he would not give her money. We are willing to buy something she really needs, just not give any money. He came home and said "I understand now". DD tries to split us, and has successfully for so many years. We are united now. This too increases her distress.

I am working to not think about DD all the time -- this is hard hard hard. Choosing to limit how much I talk about DD as well, and the distressing situation with her. I can come here and with my T to talk about the gritty details.

I am seeing my counselor weekly, then bi-monthly during the summer. I can call her if I need to and she will take the time to talk with me on the phone.

I have contacted gd's T for support in protecting her. I have been as transparent and open with our situation as I can be -- no secrets.

I am spending social time with women in my small group at church. They are so accepting and encouraging. Dh is enjoying spending some time with just him and gd when I am gone my evening a week. This is a great respite as well as needing the support. I am also consciously trying to be a good listener with my friends -- talking too much is a weakness for me, sharing too much grit.

Giving myself a half hour for quiet mindfulness activity - at least 4 days a week in the morning. Leaving the morning household chores undone more often to make this space for my self. I also got my restorative yoga dvd, will discpline myself to do it at least 2 times this week - the 15 minute morning part anyway. Guess I better drop one more morning chore    [dh has started unloading the dishes for me  ]

Choosing to live inside my values of honesty, integrity and respect. Every day, every where. It is easier sometimes to let things go, to be complicit with others in bending things that need to stay straight. And I am being diligent in respecting myself and the boundaries I have formulated to protect these values. These boundaries are working for me with my boss and his demanding wife as well as with neighbors and within my family.

qcr  

[angeldust1]

Dear Everyone,   

I have read so many of the posts,  I'm not sure who started this thread,  but you all  seem to be in about the same place I'm in.  I also have an adult son that is my pwBPD39.  Such hatered these people spew out is almost unblieveable.  Why is hatred so much a  part of this disorder?[/color]    I guess they are so wrapped up in theirselves,  that the hate has to go somewhere,  and why not us? We will take it.  They certainly can't treat friends,  collegues,  co-workers this way,  and if they do,  there are huge consequences.  From my experience they are not real big on consequences,  esp. those imposed by parents... .  

which also brings to mind another question... .  how is it that they can pick and choose whom to treat so badly?.  I've never really gotten that. 

I remember before I joined,  I wish I had just one penny for the number of tears I shed over why does my own son,  whom I love so much... .     hated me so much.  And... .  what a huge comfort it was to hear all of you talking about how much your children/adults w/BPD hate you.  I must really wonder,  do they really or is it just that they don't know any other way to act.  It was so very comforting to me,  to know I was not so alone.  You can't just tell anyone how much your child hates you without,  the other person  wondering,  well theres two sides to every story.  In our case the sides are... .  we love them,  and would give the world to make them happy,... .  thier side is... .  they treat us terribly and will do anything to make us miserable... .   Even if  we do all the normal things,  it is going to come across to us as hate no matter what.

 

When my ds39 finally do  have contact,   I will try the validation approach.  It's really about the only thing I haven't tried. I was just unsure how to validate an untruth,  well an out right lie.  I'm practicing and hopeing it will  make a difference in our relationship.  We have been in N/C mode for over a year,  and I know that it will end one day,  and I will have learned so much.  When we had our last contact,  I didn't even know about BPD.  I have a good working knowledge of what I am dealing with and I will do everything in my power to stay with in the confines of what I think I should do.  But... .  He will didrespect me   and he will not enfringe on me in ways unacceptable to me or my dh.

In summary,  hate is something we all endure,  it's sort of like a stuffy nose is part of a cold.  It seems every post I read every article I read,  it's all about hate.  It might just be something we have to accept.

angel

[angeldust1]

Dear Everyone,   

I have read so many of the posts,  I'm not sure who started this thread,  but you all  seem to be in about the same place I'm in.  I also have an adult son that is my pwBPD39.  Such hatered these people spew out is almost unblieveable.  Why is hatred so much a  part of this disorder?[/color]    I guess they are so wrapped up in theirselves,  that the hate has to go somewhere,  and why not us? We will take it.  They certainly can't treat friends,  collegues,  co-workers this way,  and if they do,  there are huge consequences.  From my experience they are not real big on consequences,  esp. those imposed by parents... .  

which also brings to mind another question... .  how is it that they can pick and choose whom to treat so badly?.  I've never really gotten that. 

I remember before I joined,  I wish I had just one penny for the number of tears I shed over why does my own son,  whom I love so much... .     hated me so much.  And... .  what a huge comfort it was to hear all of you talking about how much your children/adults w/BPD hate you.  I must really wonder,  do they really or is it just that they don't know any other way to act.  It was so very comforting to me,  to know I was not so alone.  You can't just tell anyone how much your child hates you without,  the other person  wondering,  well theres two sides to every story.  In our case the sides are... .  we love them,  and would give the world to make them happy,... .  thier side is... .  they treat us terribly and will do anything to make us miserable... .   Even if  we do all the normal things,  it is going to come across to us as hate no matter what.

 

When my ds39 finally do  have contact,   I will try the validation approach.  It's really about the only thing I haven't tried. I was just unsure how to validate an untruth,  well an out right lie.  I'm practicing and hopeing it will  make a difference in our relationship.  We have been in N/C mode for over a year,  and I know that it will end one day,  and I will have learned so much.  When we had our last contact,  I didn't even know about BPD.  I have a good working knowledge of what I am dealing with and I will do everything in my power to stay with in the confines of what I think I should do.  But... .  He will NOT disrespect me   and he will not enfringe on me in ways unacceptable to me or my dh.

In summary,  hate is something we all endure,  it's sort of like a stuffy nose is part of a cold.  It seems every post I read every article I read,  it's all about hate.  It might just be something we have to accept.

angel

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

Hi angeldust!

Good luck with the validation and boundary setting. let us know how it goes.

Re 'hate' while it may feel like that to us, I think for them it is anger, frustration and fear that they are expressing.

The person with BPD is experiencing unbelievable psychic pain. It seems that they can't get anything right and their lives aren't working out the way that they were lead to believe it should be. Because of their way of thinking - immaturity - they need to blame someone for their problems. After all they see themselves as inherently good people just trying to do their best. So, they lash out at those closest to them. As mums, we are the ones that are easiest to blame, they can find lots of reinforcement that their problems were caused by us. Of course, we are here because we didn't understand how to be validating and the consequences of that for them is that we were invalidating.

Having problems with relationships is at the core of BPD. It's because they look to others to help them solve their problems, and we can't.

When dh and I first employed boundaries properly, we felt a backlash that is still a wound with our dd32. Be prepared for this. It required a lot of 'study' on my behalf to understand what boundaries were about so dh and I could stand strong and withstand the onslaught.

It took me months of practising validation on strangers and others before I tried to use it with our dd. We have met 3 times since we started n/c over a year ago. And the last time I stuffed up a bit on my validation. I find I need to constantly re read and remind myself of what it's all about.

good luck

Vivek    

[pessim-optimist]

When my ds39 finally do  have contact,   I will try the validation approach.  It's really about the only thing I haven't tried. I was just unsure how to validate an untruth,  well an out right lie.

That's a very good question, angeldust. One that I struggled with, as well. What helped me was to read that we should not validate 'the invalid' - something that is not true. In that case, we validate THEIR FEELINGS about the situation. Because those are very true and very real to them. And when they hear that we understand how they feel, they feel heard and understood.

[angeldust1]

Yeah,  that is about what I am thinking.

Let say  I get blamed for something I didn't do.  I say" It seems like you feel hurt that you think I did XXXX,  I would feel hurt about that too.  Is this a pretty good example of validating an untruth... .  Or can anyone give me a better way of wording it.

[vivekananda]

Hi angeldust,

That's a really good example. This validation is difficult stuff and it can be complex.

My understanding is that if you said:

It seems like you feel hurt that you think I did XXXX, 

that would leave you open to seeming to justify what you did, the way it is worded seems to imply that perhaps her experience isn't correct (because you say 'you think I did' ie 'I really didn't but you just thought that... .  ' If you said something like that to me and I was angry with you, you would not get anywhere much with me. It is a bit defensive on your behalf... .  and it is turning it on to you and what you really think by implying you are being misunderstood.

I would say something like: " You are hurt by what I did, I can see that. I am sorry that you are hurt."  In this you are acknowledging the feelings. You are acknowledging that what you did was the cause for that feeling. You are NOT acknowledging that you did anything wrong. You are not acknowledging that what she thinks is true or is untrue. It is just about how she feels.

A main purpose in validation is to better listen to what they have to say. So it helps if we forget about what we want them to hear from us in that all we want to do is validate how they feel. As a mum used to telling the story etc, I have had to learn how to shut up and listen and limit the words I do use. Our children want us to hear how they feel, they want us to hear them. and you'd be surprised how much your hearing improves when you validate.

Thank you for the chance to clarify validation. It is helpful to me to work on this stuff,

Vivek    

[qcarolr]

A main purpose in validation is to better listen to what they have to say. So it helps if we forget about what we want them to hear from us in that all we want to do is validate how they feel. As a mum used to telling the story etc, I have had to learn how to shut up and listen and limit the words I do use. Our children want us to hear how they feel, they want us to hear them. and you'd be surprised how much your hearing improves when you validate.

Thank you for the chance to clarify validation. It is helpful to me to work on this stuff,

Vivek  - it is an unending learning process, Yes!

I often forget "The Rules of Validation" from book "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better", Lundberg.

LISTEN to what is being said and the events being related. Give your FULL ATTENTION to the person who is speaking.

LISTEN to the feelings being expressed. (Mad, Sad, Glad, Afraid)

LISTEN to the needs being expressed.

UNDERSTAND by putting yourself in the other person's shoes as best you can.


So listening skills are a great step to practice in every situation in my daily life when I am getting covered by FOG. Gd7 is my prime relationship for this practice - so easy to be distracted or not to hear what she is saying in her quiet voice slurred by new teeth growing in and my age normal hearing loss. (If I won the lottery I could get hearing aide on one side - YIKES. Not ready to go there. Besides, I do not gamble even a dollar at a time.).

qcr