Something Stupid, Please help explain

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

OK. I need to tell my story of something really stupid.

I was NC for almost 2 months. I began to invest in the woman I left my BPD for. She is sweet and kind and caring and stable. And she loves me a lot. I love her too.

My ex lives in a different town. I had to go to this place for a conference. My ex knew about it. She called several times before I was going there. She didn't call using her number. She called using Skype, so I couldn't really tell who it was. I just had a sinking feeling. I ignored the calls. And I was wishfully thinking that maybe it was a friend from another country.

When I got into town, I noticed she emailed (I have her blocked but stupid GMAIL puts it in the trash... .  and I checked). Sure enough, she emailed. And sure enough, I opened and read it. It seemed like a normal email. Just saying hi and hoping I was well and wondering if I was in town. I was a bit worried that she was going to show up at my conference. A part of me also wanted to see her. But I didn't know what to do. The part of me that knew this was bad news was winning though. I wrote her an email back that said I was in town but was super busy and was hoping she was well. I thought about sending it and then thought better of it... .  I thought I hit the save button but pressed the send button by mistake. I started to panic... .  I turned my phone off in hopes that it would catch it. It didn't.

Then a huge guilt trip email about how much she wanted to see me and how cruel it was that I would come into to town and not see her. That hooked me. I emailed back. She emailed me. And around it went. Somehow we were on the phone. And she said she really wanted to see me. I thought OK. If seeing you is going to get you off my back then fine. I didn't know what she wanted to say or do. I told her that I was only going to see her for her sake. That I was doing her a favor. She said that she hoped I would see her for 'us'. I didn't know what that meant. She said she didn't want to talk about the past. I told her that is pretty much the only thing I wanted to talk about and that seeing her was going to be put me in a tailspin and that it would make me want to get back together with her. She said that was fine, she just wanted to see me. I said fine but we could either only go for a walk or go to my hotel room. Those were the only two things I felt comfortable with. I didn't want to go to a restaurant because I was going to be a mess and I didn't want to meet in the lobby of the hotel because all my colleagues were there. She said fine, she would eat before she came and we could find somewhere quiet.

So, I meet her in the lobby and she hadn't eaten and she said she was getting cranky so we should go eat. The usual idiot inside me said OK. We went for dinner and I explained to her a lot of stuff that I learned. How her raging at me made me feel rejected. And even though I left her, I felt like I was pushed out by her behavior and that this made it very hard. That I felt super rejected all the time.

Now, this is the crazy part. I didn't find her attractive at all. I found her kind of ugly. I didn't really like her. I didn't like being with her. All the stress I would get with being with her came back.

But after it was done. I wanted her so badly. I was madly in love with her again. But it was so weird, because I wasn't in love with her when I saw her. I thought she kind of looked like a hag (harsh, I know... .  but it's true). She said a couple funny jokes that I liked. And I laughed quite a bit (she's really funny). But I wasn't attracted to her at all. But when she left, I was back to square one. Madly in love (or whatever it was... .  ). I wanted her back.

Arg. This is all so confusing... .  

Skip a couple of days... .  I see her again. We hang out. I tell her that this was torture. I didn't understand what she wanted to see me for. She hadn't told me any great revelations. She didn't have anything to say to me. She wasn't looking for closure. She just wanted to hang out. Even though I told her very, very specifically that I wasn't able to do that. I wasn't able to be her friend. I had no interest in hearing about her life or what she was doing. I told her very specifically to not tell me anything other than what she wanted to say to me. She didn't have anything to say to me. She just talked about her life and all the things she is doing. For hours. I asked her what we were doing. What was going on. She told me she didn't want to label it. I told her that was crazy. She didn't want to be friends but she didn't want to get back together. I asked her what she wanted. She told me she just wanted to be with me but without any labels. But she didn't want to be with me. She didn't want to have any boundaries. I told her that I absolutely had to have boundaries and that I didn't know what was going on. I told her not to call me or email me. That this was torture. She said, OK, I won't call you or email you as long as I wasn't 'mean' to her. I told her that she could control whether or not I was 'mean' to her by not calling or emailing me. (BTW, she would always claim that I was mean to her. I never, ever was).

So, she sends me another email when I get home. She calls me that night. I tell her I can't talk to her. She emails me again. I delete it without reading. She calls me again in the morning. I told her that I didn't want to talk to her. I had come home and broken up with the woman I was seeing. I was a mess. I told her that she had taken enough from me and that I wasn't going to let her take any more.

So... .  

Can anyone explain this to me? I didn't like being with her. I didn't find her attractive. I didn't like spending time with her. She consistently crossed my boundaries, again and again and again. She stressed me out. She would pull all the same kinds of things that would just make my blood pressure boil. I just wanted to run away from her when I was with her. I almost did. She started to tell me about a trip she took and I was put off by it (it was obvious to me it was with someone else). She asked me why I looked weird and I told her that she knew why. And she said... .  yeah... .  in this kind of caring voice like she knew it was hard for me (AND IF SHE KNEW... .  WHY WOULD SHE TELL ME? ESPECIALLY AFTER I TOLD HER I DIDN"T WANT TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HER LIFE?). I digress.

Arg. Ok. My point. Why would I be pinning for someone, wanting to get back together with them, falling into the trap again with a woman that I found ugly in person, that made me angry in person, that made me want to run away from her in person. A person that my therapist has been working diligently to try to convince me that she abused me. Why would I want her back? It makes no sense. My logical mind was telling me to stay far, far away. But it felt like there was this sickness in my soul that was pulling me back in.

HELP! I can't seem to get out of this. It is torture. I literally almost killed myself when I got back from this trip. My life got completely turned upside down. I broke up with a woman that I did truly love. Who was healthy. Who I loved back in a healthy way. And I basically told my ex to F off. And here I am, still grieving her, still wanting to be with her. But this person doesn't even exist. I don't get it... .  What is going on with my mind.

[willy45]

OK. I need to tell my story of something really stupid.

I was NC for almost 2 months. I began to invest in the woman I left my BPD for. She is sweet and kind and caring and stable. And she loves me a lot. I love her too.

My ex lives in a different town. I had to go to this place for a conference. My ex knew about it. She called several times before I was going there. She didn't call using her number. She called using Skype, so I couldn't really tell who it was. I just had a sinking feeling. I ignored the calls. And I was wishfully thinking that maybe it was a friend from another country.

When I got into town, I noticed she emailed (I have her blocked but stupid GMAIL puts it in the trash... .  and I checked). Sure enough, she emailed. And sure enough, I opened and read it. It seemed like a normal email. Just saying hi and hoping I was well and wondering if I was in town. I was a bit worried that she was going to show up at my conference. A part of me also wanted to see her. But I didn't know what to do. The part of me that knew this was bad news was winning though. I wrote her an email back that said I was in town but was super busy and was hoping she was well. I thought about sending it and then thought better of it... .  I thought I hit the save button but pressed the send button by mistake. I started to panic... .  I turned my phone off in hopes that it would catch it. It didn't.

Then a huge guilt trip email about how much she wanted to see me and how cruel it was that I would come into to town and not see her. That hooked me. I emailed back. She emailed me. And around it went. Somehow we were on the phone. And she said she really wanted to see me. I thought OK. If seeing you is going to get you off my back then fine. I didn't know what she wanted to say or do. I told her that I was only going to see her for her sake. That I was doing her a favor. She said that she hoped I would see her for 'us'. I didn't know what that meant. She said she didn't want to talk about the past. I told her that is pretty much the only thing I wanted to talk about and that seeing her was going to be put me in a tailspin and that it would make me want to get back together with her. She said that was fine, she just wanted to see me. I said fine but we could either only go for a walk or go to my hotel room. Those were the only two things I felt comfortable with. I didn't want to go to a restaurant because I was going to be a mess and I didn't want to meet in the lobby of the hotel because all my colleagues were there. She said fine, she would eat before she came and we could find somewhere quiet.

So, I meet her in the lobby and she hadn't eaten and she said she was getting cranky so we should go eat. The usual idiot inside me said OK. We went for dinner and I explained to her a lot of stuff that I learned. How her raging at me made me feel rejected. And even though I left her, I felt like I was pushed out by her behavior and that this made it very hard. That I felt super rejected all the time.

Now, this is the crazy part. I didn't find her attractive at all. I found her kind of ugly. I didn't really like her. I didn't like being with her. All the stress I would get with being with her came back.

But after it was done. I wanted her so badly. I was madly in love with her again. But it was so weird, because I wasn't in love with her when I saw her. I thought she kind of looked like a hag (harsh, I know... .  but it's true). She said a couple funny jokes that I liked. And I laughed quite a bit (she's really funny). But I wasn't attracted to her at all. But when she left, I was back to square one. Madly in love (or whatever it was... .  ). I wanted her back.

Arg. This is all so confusing... .  

Skip a couple of days... .  I see her again. We hang out. I tell her that this was torture. I didn't understand what she wanted to see me for. She hadn't told me any great revelations. She didn't have anything to say to me. She wasn't looking for closure. She just wanted to hang out. Even though I told her very, very specifically that I wasn't able to do that. I wasn't able to be her friend. I had no interest in hearing about her life or what she was doing. I told her very specifically to not tell me anything other than what she wanted to say to me. She didn't have anything to say to me. She just talked about her life and all the things she is doing. For hours. I asked her what we were doing. What was going on. She told me she didn't want to label it. I told her that was crazy. She didn't want to be friends but she didn't want to get back together. I asked her what she wanted. She told me she just wanted to be with me but without any labels. But she didn't want to be with me. She didn't want to have any boundaries. I told her that I absolutely had to have boundaries and that I didn't know what was going on. I told her not to call me or email me. That this was torture. She said, OK, I won't call you or email you as long as I wasn't 'mean' to her. I told her that she could control whether or not I was 'mean' to her by not calling or emailing me. (BTW, she would always claim that I was mean to her. I never, ever was).

So, she sends me another email when I get home. She calls me that night. I tell her I can't talk to her. She emails me again. I delete it without reading. She calls me again in the morning. I told her that I didn't want to talk to her. I had come home and broken up with the woman I was seeing. I was a mess. I told her that she had taken enough from me and that I wasn't going to let her take any more.

So... .  

Can anyone explain this to me? I didn't like being with her. I didn't find her attractive. I didn't like spending time with her. She consistently crossed my boundaries, again and again and again. She stressed me out. She would pull all the same kinds of things that would just make my blood pressure boil. I just wanted to run away from her when I was with her. I almost did. She started to tell me about a trip she took and I was put off by it (it was obvious to me it was with someone else). She asked me why I looked weird and I told her that she knew why. And she said... .  yeah... .  in this kind of caring voice like she knew it was hard for me (AND IF SHE KNEW... .  WHY WOULD SHE TELL ME? ESPECIALLY AFTER I TOLD HER I DIDN"T WANT TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HER LIFE?). I digress.

Arg. Ok. My point. Why would I be pinning for someone, wanting to get back together with them, falling into the trap again with a woman that I found ugly in person, that made me angry in person, that made me want to run away from her in person. A person that my therapist has been working diligently to try to convince me that she abused me. Why would I want her back? It makes no sense. My logical mind was telling me to stay far, far away. But it felt like there was this sickness in my soul that was pulling me back in.

HELP! I can't seem to get out of this. It is torture. I literally almost killed myself when I got back from this trip. My life got completely turned upside down. I broke up with a woman that I did truly love. Who was healthy. Who I loved back in a healthy way. And I basically told my ex to F off. And here I am, still grieving her, still wanting to be with her. But this person doesn't even exist. I don't get it... .  What is going on with my mind.

[LuckyEscapee]

So sorry your feeling like this. We all have stories with similar aspects.

I have felt at times like you do, my head firmly believing I am lucky to have escaped, yet still thinking about him. I think it is craving something that we had become situationalized to, it absorbed us and consumed us 24/7. Then suddenly it's gone.

There is no right or wrong for feeling your way through this. Your head is in the right place, be patient with the rest of you. No worries it'll catch up in time.

[willy45]

Thanks LuckyEscapee,

I really appreciate it. None of this makes any sense to me. I'm now in a place where I wish the abuse had been physical. I know that sounds crazy. But it is so hard for me to appreciate how awful the experience was without having physical scars and bruises. That sounds pretty nuts. All I can hold on to was the FEAR of being hit, the pain of having to hide under the bed from her during one of her late night rages, the pain of never knowing what was going on, the walking on eggshells.

I don't know why it is so hard for me to hold onto the experiences I had and be able to hold that they weren't OK. I think I keep going back because I just don't believe it or that I deserved it.

[berry]

I haven't posted in awhile, but your post (rjh) was so compelling.  I had an affair with a BPD woman that lasted about a year.  During that year, she triangulated me with two other women (same sex relationship), and my wonderful partner stuck with me the entire time.  Last summer, in July, I finally ended it after the fourth or fifth recycle.  Throughout the relationship, she did unforgivable things, lied constantly, manipulated me, caused me more pain that I ever thought possible.  After more than six months NC, my life is back on track, and I am happy in my relationship again (long term).  Then, recently, my BPDexgf came back into my life.  We are in the same circles.

Long story short, at first I felt just like you:  she held no attraction for me anymore; I had nothing to say; didn't enjoy her company and couldn't wait to get home to my partner after our first meeting to "get some closure."  As time passed, however, she continued to reach out, and little by little, I started engaging in love language texts with her.  Then some physical interaction (no sex), but we are back on the same track.  She is in a relationship now with one of the women she triangulated me with.  I don't want her, or the relationship.  But I cannot for the life of me understand my attraction and compulsion. 

I am trying to have as litttle interaction as possible, and on the days I don't see or hear from her, I am happy and moving on with my life.  But then when we are texting and talking, or seeing each for coffee (or dinner), I find myself irresitably drawn to her. 

I do not love her anymore, but I tell her I do.  I feel as crazy as she is.  I have come to realize that -- like a drug -- I will probably always be vulnerable to this woman and the insanity.  Still working on this in therapy, but very disappointed.

I guess I wanted to let you know you are not alone.  Hang in there. 

[willy45]

Hi Berry,

Thanks for the note. That really means a lot to me. I feel a tremendous amount of shame about it but it is nice to know that someone has experienced this.

Yes. It is confusing. I don't really get it. I do the EXACT same thing. I don't love her. I don't even like her. Yet, if we communicate in any way or form, all these words come out of my mouth that aren't real. I guess a part of me does love her. I love the part of her that isn't crazy. Or, maybe a better way to say it, I love the idea that there is a part of her that isn't crazy or abusive or volatile or needy. I have been involved with this woman for 6 or 7 years. And all that time, my going assumption was that there was a real person underneath all this stuff that I could reach. And I LOVED that person.

What I'm learning now is that person never existed. I loved something that didn't exist. My working assumption was that she was like a normal person and normal people have ups and downs and deal with stress and hardship and once they deal with the stress and hardship, then they are back to some kind of equilibrium. But, there was ALWAYS some kind of stress or hardship. It never, ever, ever ended. I was just along for the ride.

So, I think a few things.

1) I am continuing to be in denial that this woman is mentally ill. It still doesn't compute that she is nuts and that there is nothing I can say or do or could have said or done to change that. But, the denial keeps me thinking and hoping that I am wrong, that my experiences and my interpretation of them were wrong. And, if I could only say the right thing or do the right thing, then the healthy person I believed to be there would emerge and everything would be wonderful.

2) Through years and years of abuse, I lost myself. My boundaries were continually broken. Over and over and over again to the point that the real me, the grounded me, the wise me, the one that listen's to himself doesn't exist in relation to this person. So, when I talk to her, I'm not there. It isn't me. I am just caught up in the drama and words come out of my mouth that I don't mean. It is like a habit.

3) Speaking of habits, this feels like an addiction. She is the one that caused this pain. She hurt me deeply after years and years of emotional abuse and bullying. There is a giant well of self-doubt, self-hatred, and insecurity. I am in such an incredible amount of pain. It is overwhelming. And the only thing that I know will cure the pain in the short term is her. I obviously know that in the long term, she would only cause me more pain and that it is worth riding out this storm. But, it is a compelling short term fix. So, any interaction no matter how bad I know it is going to be provides a short term boost to the horrible pain I'm in.

Not sure if this helps. I'm hoping that my emotions and soul will catch up to my mind sooner or later.

[LuckyEscapee]

I'm now in a place where I wish the abuse had been physical. I know that sounds crazy. But it is so hard for me to appreciate how awful the experience was without having physical scars and bruises. That sounds pretty nuts

.

It isn't nuts, I have been there too  

Whenever I question myself "was it really that bad?" I go back to some of his emails and texts he sent. They remind me hell yes and then some.

All I can hold on to was the FEAR of being hit, the pain of having to hide under the bed from her during one of her late night rages, the pain of never knowing what was going on, the walking on eggshells.

Hold on to that a while and give yourself time to process. Sometimes I feel it is two steps forward one step back, but forward it is

I too wasn't actually punched, and my ex thinks that makes his behavior ok, but I accept now fully that i was still physically impacted by the unhealthy relationship. I was berated with words that hurt like a baseball bat. My brain felt bruised from the helplessness of nothing helping the situation. I was scared stupid at times, this trusted man knew everything about me, he had access to my home, my car, my workplace. Nowhere felt safe anymore. I fully expected to get hurt in all good time. I didnt want to be alone with him out of fear. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat, I was nervous wreck. Does any of this ring as familiar to you? If it does then yes it was awful for you! Truly unacceptably awful  

Remember your allowed to feel whatever it is your feeling, it's a process, your mind will get through it, your body will get healthy again. This forum helps that journey of understanding. This will make me stronger for the future. It does get easier, even with a few speed bumps thrown in. You're not crazy and your not nuts... .  you're healing  

[willy45]

Thanks LuckyEscapee. Very much appreciated.

[Traye]

Rjh45--

Wow.  Your story is my story.  You are not alone.  It makes no sense... .  Ive been trying to tease apart my 3 year relationship, understand what drove me to be with a woman I was/wasn't attracted to, and who I knew wasn't good for me.  What a roller coaster.  So many "bad" choices. 

I ended the relationship 5 weeks ago.  I want her back, but I think I'm strong enough now not to go down that path.  Reading your story makes me realize how easy it would be to end up back on that roller coaster. 

The illness is crazy-making, quite literally.  Suicide was on my mind in the days following the breakup.  I think that's a normal reaction to all that we go through with a BPD partner.  I keep educating myself on the illness; maintain NC; and am trying to move on with my life.  I dread the day, however, when she contacts me again. 

Hang in there.

[GustheDog]

This is the first time I've ever told anyone this - not sure why, either - but I am not sexually attracted to my ex.  I don't think I ever was.  But there's a little more to it . . . .

She is highly attractive - gorgeous, even.  I think she is an objectively beautiful woman (physically).  But I am not and rarely found myself to be intensely sexually aroused by her.  I mean, we had sex - good looking, naked lady - biology has its way; but for some bizarre reason none of this bothered me in the least during the r/s.  

My post-hoc theory on both why it didn't bother me and why the eroticism was lacking is because of the parent-child dynamic.  I felt such intense "love" for her, but I wasn't her lover or her peer - I was her mentor, her educator, her . . . parent.

I know my story's different in that the lack of attraction I experienced wasn't a result of being turned off due to her abuse and general bad-personhood, but it's another perspective anyway . . . .  Also, there wasn't much overt abuse until the final stages of my r/s - we were pretty civil and caring towards each other until her disorder really kicked in at the end.

[willy45]

Hey GusTheDog,

Not sexually attracted to your ex? That is pretty awesome man. Count yourself insanely lucky!

For me, the sex was overpowering, like a drug. It is probably the biggest thing I am missing, having that kind of intense sexual connection and desire and closeness. It is pretty horrible to live without. And probably the biggest reason that kept me in the relationship for so long, so endured all kinds of horrible things as a result.

[GustheDog]

Hey GusTheDog,

Not sexually attracted to your ex? That is pretty awesome man. Count yourself insanely lucky!

For me, the sex was overpowering, like a drug. It is probably the biggest thing I am missing, having that kind of intense sexual connection and desire and closeness. It is pretty horrible to live without. And probably the biggest reason that kept me in the relationship for so long, so endured all kinds of horrible things as a result.

I know what it's like; I've had other, shorter-lived relationships with uBPDs (yes, plural) that had the intense sexual element.

And maybe my previous post is something of an overstatement precisely for this reason.  I was really thinking that my most recent exBPDgf was going to be my wife.  No need to remind me how misguided I was, but I thought we had a "mature" love between us, which, while it contained a satisfying physical aspect, I saw more in this person than just an exciting girl who I hang out and sleep with.

All my past "relationships" have been predominantly sex-driven (like many times/day).  This relationship was, or at least seemed to be, predominantly an emotional connection (with sex occurring ~ once or twice a week).

And I do not count myself lucky at all.  I'd voluntarily choose a decade of celibacy over dealing with the pain I've been in for the past 5 months.

[willy45]

Hey Man,

Didn't mean to dismiss the pain your are in. I totally get it. I guess it is just one of the main things I'm struggling with and wish I didn't have to deal with the sex side of things. See this post for what mean... .  

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=195119.msg12205644#msg12205644

Again, sorry man. Didn't mean to be dismissive. I just wish I didn't have to deal with the sex side of things.

[GustheDog]

Hey Man,

Didn't mean to dismiss the pain your are in. I totally get it. I guess it is just one of the main things I'm struggling with and wish I didn't have to deal with the sex side of things. See this post for what mean... .  

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=195119.msg12205644#msg12205644

Again, sorry man. Didn't mean to be dismissive. I just wish I didn't have to deal with the sex side of things.

Not a bit - no worries.  You and I will both have lots of sex with other women.  It will be great.  I promise.