Do BPD spouses actually file divorce or all talk?

[mikejones75093]

She retained an attorney but has not filed.

The new house is the chip, get on board with it or we're done.  She says non negotiable

I am a financial professional and just went self employed.  I won't even qualify for a new mortgage.   She says I'm just putting up barriers.

I finally told her ok go call a mortgage company and find out what we are approved for.   She won't do it.  The first thing they are going to do us laugh about my new employment situation and to come back in a couple years.  She won't listen to me, but she's high functioning and smart so she also knows I am giving good info.  I told her she can handle all the finances now and I don't want to know about it.  She won't do that either.

She spends money like crazy and she is telling all my buddies wives I spent it all and I screwed everything up.  Of course they are all telling her how amazing she is .  Dragging my name through dirt.  I know I shouldn't let this bother me but it does.

It's just never been this bad before, and she gave her attorney a sob story they ate up.

[livednlearned]

If you want to stay married and the chip is a fantasy, then it seems like your best option is to call a mortgage broker and invite your wife to go with you. Don't gloat when you're right. Ask her to sit with you and figure out a possible path to moving when it's financially feasible. Where does she want to live, what is it about the area she likes? Does she feel it might help to handle finances x way versus y way to make this dream a reality, etc.

It seems, though, that you two might be at two very different emotional stages. It's possible that your (probably very justified) 3-day silent treatment really did a number on her and she is splitting hard. Since she has BPD and you don't, the emotional leadership is going to fall to you.

I know it's not fair that we have to eat sh!t sandwiches but this is a serious mental injury she has and you want to stay married. You haven't called an attorney yet (?) and know that moving is financial suicide.

So the only path that seems even remotely hopeful is finding a way back to level ground and giving her something to help her get out of this hole she is digging for herself.

You can always meet with a lawyer for information purposes only. You can talk to a therapist about divorce. You can think about it here with us.

If you don't want it to happen now when you're conflicted, something has to give.

It's not going to be her.

[Notwendy]

I agree that meeting with the mortgage broker might be the « no » which takes that off you. Sometimes the actual facts are the best boundary.

[Go3737]

I filed end of Dec 2022.
Papers signed in May and filed in the court.
It could take up to a year to work through the system.

I wouldn't take it any more.

Now I have peace.
She is a walking disaster

[mikejones75093]

I have not consulted an attorney yet.  Just sounds like more money down the drain.

If she does file I will hire an attorney, and they are the ones that will get paid and win.

She keeps wanting to say all I care about is the money, but she is wrecklessly spending like it's nothing.  I keep bringing up the money because when we don't have any left that's when life gets real hard.  We have kids and are too old to be wreckless financially,  to her this means I'm all about money and greed.

She went back to work and I applaud that but she doesn't make as much as she thinks.   She spends well over her monthly income pre tax.  When I show her that math I'm just insulting her earning capacity.

She doesn't get it.  Who is going to pay that tab when the money is all gone?

She's never been happy and always has to be involved in chaos.  Our marriage counselor told me it's to keep her mind off focusing on her issues.  She won't go back to counseling after she was confronted about bpd.

She has all kinds of excuses why she doesn't like where we live, but bottom line we would be downsizing significantly and paying MORE money.  If we make this move we are going backwards.  Setting ourselves back probably 10 years.

[Joaquin]

I’m sorry MJ. Nightmare. Consulting with a mortgage broker may be a good idea. Also remember you can do a consult with a lawyer without paying a retainer or signing anything. It’s just a convo they might charge you $50

[Notwendy]

I don't think talking about it would be effective, from my own experience. This is emotional. Seeing numbers doesn't change emotions. You would need to take some kind of action, like an account in your name only.

[ForeverDad]

Obtaining legal advice is crucial for you to learn how you can save funds, defend yourself financially, learn effective strategies, etc.  As others wrote, consultations (for yourself, privately and confidentially) are relatively inexpensive. Simple "no brainers", so to speak.  And consultations do not require you to pay a retainer to hire an attorney.  It's far better than ignoring ways to find solutions and lessen the pain.

Have you read our topics on Boundaries?  PwBPD resist boundaries.  They won't listen to reason.  So really, the boundaries are on us.  As in, "If you do or don't do ___ then I will do or not do ___."  See?  Of course, it is a little more complicated than that, but that's the gist.  Your stance, your response is the boundary.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329744.0

Does she have access to joint bank accounts? ...

Do you have joint credit card accounts? ...

If there are inheritances, then you must keep them separate from other accounts...

I did a few things that made my separation simpler financially, mostly quite by accident.

(1) her own credit vs joint credit...

(2) personal bank account vs joint bank account...

(3) my auto insurance...

When we did separate my car, my new bank account, my paycheck and my credit card were unaffected.  Sure, she drove a paid for but jointly owned car and we had joint mortgage on our joint house but that was handled during the divorce.

[Joaquin]

Out of curiosity, how are the finances working out? Do you have kids together? Those are my 2 fears and I think many others’ here

I filed end of Dec 2022.
Papers signed in May and filed in the court.
It could take up to a year to work through the system.

I wouldn't take it any more.

Now I have peace.
She is a walking disaster

[livednlearned]

It's not uncommon for pwBPD to have issues with spending (impulsivity). Talk of retirement accounts is for grown-ups.

The gist of the thread is about understanding how pwBPD and the family law system work. It's insurance. The same way your wife needs to look up the road a ways when it comes to finances, we do the same here when it comes to family law. Information = insurance.

Gather information. You can talk to lawyers without retaining them. Find out what you can do to protect yourself if things keep moving in this direction. Read Splitting by Bill Eddy.

I made financial decisions when I left that could've devastated my ex. Your wife might be getting counsel similar to what I received, which I didn't follow to the T because I'm reasonable. For example, some people will literally empty their house. Their spouse comes home to nothing. And there are literally no repercussions. Every item in my home would've been priced at whatever the going rate was on Craig's list, which is close to nothing even for new pieces of furniture.

I was also told I could drain bank accounts and move assets. It's almost looked at like taking an advance so that you pay your spouse when the time comes versus the opposite. If my ex had done this before I did, he would have had leverage and could thumb his nose at the divorce order and the only thing I would've been able to do was take him back to court to enforce the order.

Family law courts will find someone in contempt of court like it's a parking ticket so this can become a turn-style until you eventually get what was in the original order. That's what makes lawyers rich.

Whereas if you have the money and pay it out, then you're avoiding the expense of trying to get what is fair.

If you're a numbers guy and you understand your wife has a problem with money, paying a hundred dollars or so for a consultation is, like FD says, a no-brainer. It's protection for your kids, yourself, and even your wife.

Advice will be different depending on where you live -- this isn't legal advice, it's to show you how a half hour or hour of consultation can help you figure out ways to be a step ahead.

[Joaquin]

MJ, just sharing a thought that occurred to me which may not apply to you. I noticed your reluctance to meet with a lawyer even tho a lot of ppl here are recommending a consult to prepare yourself. I think it’s worth examining what’s holding you back. It could be a fear of escalation or even avoidance bc it’s terrifying to embrace an actual divorce.

Or it could be a martyr instinct, basically to unilaterally disarm and let her wrong you so you can lay in the rubble and let her see you bleeding so she can finally feel the weight of her actions. If that might be any part of it, just remember: there are no awards for suffering. Even worse, her BPD will prevent her from taking ownership or responsibility for her actions; she’ll probably see herself as the victim no matter how egregious and obvious her assaults against you. Many of us have lived through variations of that.

For you and for your kids, it’s time to find that inner strength to pull yourself away from her drama cycle, step up, grab hold of your basic human right to value and protect yourself and your kids, and take some difficult first steps in that direction. I say this with love and solidarity as someone who also struggles with every bit of this. I’ve mastered none of it, I still feel controlled by FOG at times, and the possibility of a split terrifies me for my finances and children. But I do draw strength and clarity from this forum, so I only want to offer you some of that.  

[mikejones75093]

I don't know that I have a reluctance to consult an attorney, I just hate wasting money.  She put down a retainer and her emotions are so up and down she might move on and talk about something completely different next week and bam a few thousand down the drain.  We aren't rich but we do ok and have the ability to set up financial independence for our family, which with children I think is the responsible thing to do.  She is trying to take over the finances and has absolutely no clue how it all works but in her mind thinks she does.  Just by listening to her talk I can tell she's making mistakes,  but I'm tired of being told I have some hidden agenda or giving the wrong advice .  Deep down, I think she knows I speak the truth, we have been together a long time, her emotions are just so out of whack.

I actually set up a consultation with an attorney late next week to see what my options are, and how I should act moving forward.

I gave in and told her ok we can move, but told her she needs to handle it all.   I already know there won't be an approval and she will hit road blocks, but this made her "happy" and gives me more time to get things in line.

Our marriage counselor told me she isn't happy with herself inside so she needs chaos in her life.  When things are peaceful she thinks about her childhood and insecurities, the chaos with other people drowns that out.

Every few years we go through a big thing like this, normally it'd smaller monthly things.  Hopefully she turns around quick and this is over with.  The way she is treating me now I'm leaning more towards divorce for my own peace of mind. 

She knows I don't want it so I think she keeps pushing divorce because it gets me "in line" when normally I don't budge.  Once I have my ducks in a row if she doesn't calm down I'll say fine file and we'll see how she likes that.  Once I do that I'm out for good.

[Joaquin]

It sounds like you’ve gotten on top of things. You have a plan and I hear confidence and security in your voice. This is messy business but I’m glad you’re at least in a place of relative control.

[ForeverDad]

Be very careful not to go too far down that expensive sell/buy houses rabbit hole she's chasing.  If it's joint ownership involved then make sure you don't sign anything that is an obligation you can't fully undo.

William Eddy wrote in his "Splitting" divorce book that it is wisest to get consultations from multiple lawyers.  If you meet with just one, you may not discern whether it is an experienced and proactive one with time-tested strategies.

Splitting emphasizes not just any lawyer is up to the task ahead.  Many are excellent for simpler cases if all that is needed is forms filing and hand holding.  While you may not find a lawyer with a shingle stating "I handle Borderline cases", when interviewing several and hearing their experience and possible strategies, you should get a feel for a short list of both experienced and proactive attorneys.  I recall that an apt question could be, "If you were facing a very high conflict divorce case like mine, who would you choose to represent you?"  That too can help narrow whom to choose.

There is a lot of education for tools, skills and whatnot here.  Browse our Tools and Skills workshops board here.

[kells76]

I actually set up a consultation with an attorney late next week to see what my options are, and how I should act moving forward.

  better to do the appointment and never need the info, than need that support/info and be months behind.

I don't know that I have a reluctance to consult an attorney, I just hate wasting money. 

I get it -- when we did 2 initial consultations, our budget was beyond tight. It was 110% a good use of money, (a) to see how things would really go in our area, and (b) to have some way to compare the 2 lawyers -- if we'd stuck with the first one, we'd be worse off (though he had a lower rate), but after meeting the second one, it was clear that #2 was way more experienced and had a better game plan -- worth every penny. For us, 0 regrets about doing 2 initial consultations.

Sometimes you get what you pay for with L's -- not always, but sometimes. Long run it's wasting less money to get someone assertive who understands your situation and will briskly wrap things up, but is a little spendier, than trying to get a "budget lawyer" who doesn't specialize in your area of conflict and drags things out.

You can also explore posting anonymously on a site like avvo.com or expertlaw.com, or some other "ask a lawyer for free" site. Zero cost (maybe use a burner email address and different user name), but not necessarily as good of advice.

[mikejones75093]

I got 2 recommendations from actual high end lawyers.  I'm going to meet with them both.

How do you handle the negative PR campaign?  One of my friends called me to say he heard from his wife allegations of Financial abuse and lying and all kinds of other stuff.  If he heard it I can only imagine who else she has told all of this to.

It sounds easy to say who cares what other people think but she is destroying my name in the community.   Ironically,  sometimes she feels I spoke to a friend about her and she gets angry saying I shouldn't do that, but she's running all over town telling everyone how horrible I am.

I'm so angry and upset now that I'm hearing all of this from friends.

[kells76]

I got 2 recommendations from actual high end lawyers.  I'm going to meet with them both.

  good plan.

How do you handle the negative PR campaign?  One of my friends called me to say he heard from his wife allegations of Financial abuse and lying and all kinds of other stuff.  If he heard it I can only imagine who else she has told all of this to.

It sounds easy to say who cares what other people think but she is destroying my name in the community.   Ironically,  sometimes she feels I spoke to a friend about her and she gets angry saying I shouldn't do that, but she's running all over town telling everyone how horrible I am.

I'm so angry and upset now that I'm hearing all of this from friends.

When your friends tell you what they heard, how do they sound? Like -- does it sound like they believe her, or is it more like they're telling you because they can't believe she's saying that stuff, and feel like you should know?

The "smear campaigns" are so hurtful. My H has been through it too (his kids' mom has many BPD traits, and married someone with many NPD traits).

One way to approach it is to think -- wouldn't it just be playing into the lies to blow up and rage when confronted with the smear campaign? "Oh, he's always so angry and controlling" and if you blow up with "No I'm not, I'm so angry she's saying that", that just "confirms" the lies.

In a way, pwPDs "want" you to be the villain. I use "want" loosely, but the gist I'm going for is that it can meet a pwBPD's emotional needs to occupy the Victim role in the drama triangle, and so they need a Rescuer/Hero (whoever they tell their sad story to) and a Persecutor/Villain -- in this case, you.

Reacting to the lies is a double bind -- it's "confirmation" that you're the bad guy. You've inadvertently given weight to the pwBPD's stories that the stories don't merit.

I'm not saying it's easy or fast, but one approach to the smear campaign is to prep yourself mentally ahead of time to have balanced emotions, low-keky body language, appropriate responses (not reactions), and brief one-line type statements that don't engage with the falsehoods more than they merit. That could look like:

Mutual friend: "She said you're financially abusive, controlling, don't let her have any money, have devil horns, swim in a bathtub of gold, blah blah blah"

You, with relaxed, low key body language: "That's sad that she thinks that, because it isn't true. You know me and what I'm like. Do you have any questions for me?"

This takes you out of the "defensive angry guy" role that she's trying to put you in, and instead, puts the ball in the court of whoever you're talking to, to take responsibility for understanding what's going on... if they choose to. You're putting out there an image of "my character is strong enough to stand on its own, and I don't have to defend who I know I've been for decades".

This is really hard stuff. H lost a long term friend who chose to believe the stories that the kids' mom told. However, over the course of a few years, many people in our small community watched and interacted with all of us and came to their own conclusions about who all of us are, which meant that many people chose not to have a relationship with Mom and Stepdad any more.

Play it one step ahead. Don't fall into the double bind of "angrily defending yourself". Show that you're above that, be "sad that she thinks things that aren't true", and keep living a life of integrity. There may be a winnowing process but you will not end up friendless, I promise.

[mikejones75093]

Some of the people she is telling her story to are parents on our kids sports teams that I don't know.  I'll just have to not care what they think.

The friend that called me said he told his wife to chill out,  that my wife did this to me a year ago.  I had completely forgot about that until he brought it up haha.  He admitted it seems more intense now but he said we are good.

It's just nuts, she's degrading like I've never seen before.  Normally it's a tornado, wild but blows away quick.   This one has been about a month.

I told her what she wanted to hear to buy some time and we were getting along until she got into an argument on Facebook with somebody today and now she's fired back up.  Her feelings got hurt over Facebook.  Completely ridiculous.   I'm done at this point.  If she files I'm out.  I won't give her the silent treatment and when she walked in I said hi and hugged her.  So I'll act normal but thats it.  She files and I'll pay my retainer.   Not fighting for it anymore.

[Go3737]

Out of curiosity, how are the finances working out? Do you have kids together? Those are my 2 fears and I think many others’ here

We split all income equally. We've taken our time to separate our joint accounts and continue using them for some expenses until all income streams separate. Then we close the joint accounts. We are lucky to make enough in retirement funds to pay rent, food and some extras. We are both working part-time at what we want to do for extra money.  As far as i am concerned, she made a very bad decision to continue drinking, not accept any help and continue to rage at me. After I left she says I am the abuser and she couldn't be happier. Never mind that I can see so much sadness in her eyes and she cries all the time but will not admit she made a mistake. I am doing well. I have peace. Although I didn't want this for the last part of my life. I still love her but cannot have a relationship with her.

[mikejones75093]

I sat down with mine and we came up with a financial plan and it all sounded good.   Thought we were on the other side of this.

Yesterday she got in an argument with somebody on Facebook, and even though my wife had valid points a few people called her dumb.  I know it's ridiculous, a Facebook argument.  Well now she's mad at me again, accused me of not really having a plan and it'd back to square 1 and who knows.  This whole thing is just a damn joke that somebody can get all worked up over nothing and use that to destroy your family's whole financial picture.  It's almost like she doesn't realize she's harming herself too.  She thinks she's going to go buy another house on her own and just move on.  I showed her the math multiple times and it won't work.  Just a total nightmare

[Notwendy]

I don't know if this helps but it's been a nightmare trying to reason logically with my elderly mother about how she handles her own money. Her response to my efforts that are on her behalf are that I am "being mean to her". She doesn't get it because her thinking is emotional. Numbers and logic mean nothing. IMHO, if your wife sees things like my mother does, then all effort to preserve your financial well being ( for the sake of your family) has to be with you and do what you can to protect it.

[mikejones75093]

I overheard she applied for a mortgage, so hopefully she comes to her senses when she finds out what I told her is true. 

This is such a damn whirlwind.  On one hand I think she's threatening this to get me to sell the house and move but not really going through it because her whole lifestyle will change.  Everything she's about she could no longer afford.  Would be a huge downgrade.   She has to know that right?


On the other hand she applied for the loan and retained an attorney.  It's just different this time.  Normally she spirals out of control and 2 hours later her mood is totally different.

[ForeverDad]

The down and up, hate and sorry cycles are common in the past... until it isn't up and sorry anymore, just down and hate.

In the final couple years of my marriage it was a constant yo-yo life.  Until it wasn't.  That coincided with our separation and subsequent divorce.  Now that our son is grown and aged out of court orders she still acts like it was my fault and I still have to be careful not to trigger her but it still happens.

The one thing that pwBPD (and other acting-out PDs) succeed well, for them, is boundary pushing, endlessly.  And the other's perceptions are for self interest and always full of emotions and blaming.  For us, it feels and is relentless.  If one pressure doesn't work, another will be tried, etc.  But one crack in your determination and boundaries, they'll notice and seize on it.  Then you end up having to restart your boundaries all over again.

Don't agree to any persuasions or pressuring to sign for co-ownership or co-sign for a loan/mortgage.  That adds/multiplies new risks for you.  Post-divorce your life must be yours and her life must be hers, as much as possible.

[mikejones75093]

The down and up, hate and sorry cycles are common in the past... until it isn't up and sorry anymore, just down and hate.

In the final couple years of my marriage it was a constant yo-yo life.  Until it wasn't.  That coincided with our separation and subsequent divorce.  Now that our son is grown and aged out of court orders she still acts like it was my fault and I still have to be careful not to trigger her but it still happens.

The one thing that pwBPD (and other acting-out PDs) succeed well, for them, is boundary pushing, endlessly.  And the other's perceptions are for self interest and always full of emotions and blaming.  For us, it feels and is relentless.  If one pressure doesn't work, another will be tried, etc.  But one crack in your determination and boundaries, they'll notice and seize on it.  Then you end up having to restart your boundaries all over again.

Don't agree to any persuasions or pressuring to sign for co-ownership or co-sign for a loan/mortgage.  That adds/multiplies new risks for you.  Post-divorce your life must be yours and her life must be hers, as much as possible.

I'm going about my daily life like everything is normal, but I'm going tired  of the unknown in the air.

Do I bring her in a room and say hey whats going on and how do we handle this or just keep going about my day like nothing is wrong?

[Sluggo]

I'm going about my daily life like everything is normal, but I'm going tired  of the unknown in the air.

Do I bring her in a room and say hey whats going on and how do we handle this or just keep going about my day like nothing is wrong?

It's hard because it is not normal even though it seems like the only path is too normalize it.  When I grew exhausted of normalizing, then I gave myself permission to act on what I knew was right.  That is, take myself out of the situation through separation and then divorce. 

Although it was the hardest thing I ever done, I left and I got back over time a healthy behavior.  Now 7 years removed, I cannot believe I lived like that for so long. 

Sluggo

[mikejones75093]

It's hard because it is not normal even though it seems like the only path is too normalize it.  When I grew exhausted of normalizing, then I gave myself permission to act on what I knew was right.  That is, take myself out of the situation through separation and then divorce. 

Although it was the hardest thing I ever done, I left and I got back over time a healthy behavior.  Now 7 years removed, I cannot believe I lived like that for so long. 

Sluggo

I told her we can move just to slow things down.  Completely caved.

I guess I have to get over the fact breaking up my family sounds terrible.  The more I think about it the more I can't believe I'm living like this.  Talking with her today she let me know how amazing she is and how she's done everything for our marriage and family then went on a long rant how terrible I am.  The whole time I just wanted to ask her if she really believes all thay crap but I kept it cool.  For me it's all about my kids and it just seems terrible to get my kids 3 days a week and pay attorneys tens of thousands.  Once she moves she'll still be miserable.   I'm honestly concerned that without me for her to take her crap out on, how will she treat the kids?  Will they be the new punching bag?  That scares me too

[ForeverDad]

I told her we can move just to slow things down.  Completely caved.

Does this mean the divorce is off?  Or just delayed until the less expensive house is gone and thee more expensive smaller house is wrapped and she?

Unless you go forward with this divorce, you caving was just a delaying action until the next time she decides the solution is to file for divorce and pressure you to move yet again.  All her problems will still be there but you will be even more financially strapped.

Sadly, staying together without her diligently applying meaningful therapy in her life and perceptions, this will not end well.

Rather than buy a more expensive house, try renting.  At least you wouldn't have 15 or 30 years of expensive obligations.

Really, at any point before you sell the house or buy the more expensive downsize model, you have the right to reassess your life and decisions and recant agreeing to a switcheroo.  After all, you as an adult have every right to reconsider prior decisions or capitulations.

Translation:  Just because you caved under pressure doesn't mean you have to stubbornly follow a path that you know doesn't fix her issues nor could end well.[/quote]

I guess I have to get over the fact breaking up my family sounds terrible.  The more I think about it the more I can't believe I'm living like this.  Talking with her today she let me know how amazing she is and how she's done everything for our marriage and family then went on a long rant how terrible I am.

Sorry, she hasn't changed.  She happier (for now) but not you (you're still terrible in her eyes.

Reality check:  If you're so terrible why would she want to stay with you, really?[/quote]

The whole time I just wanted to ask her if she really believes all that crap...

She has a mental illness, her thinking and perceptions are warps, it's all about herself and whatever it takes to find the end of that rainbow.  Despite being mentally ill, it''s not severe enough to get her committed to an institution but it is enough bad that you need to protect yourself and the kids.

For me it's all about my kids and it just seems terrible to get my kids 3 days a week and pay attorneys tens of thousands... I'm honestly concerned that without me for her to take her crap out on, how will she treat the kids?  Will they be the new punching bag?

Do you mean they're not emotional punching bags already?  Believe us, they surely are impacted.  After all, even if you try to minimize the incidents and relentless disparagement, "the walls have ears."  They know.

Living in a calm and stable home, even if only for part of their lives, will give the children a better example of normalcy for their own future relationships.  Staying together would mean that's the only example of home life they would have known — discord, conflict, invalidation, alienation attempts, overall craziness, etc.  Over 30 years ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action will enable your lives, or at least a part of your lives going forward, to be spent be in a calm, stable environment — your home, wherever that is — away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.  And some of the flying monkeys too.

[mikejones75093]

Does this mean the divorce is off?  Or just delayed until the less expensive house is gone and thee more expensive smaller house is wrapped and she?

Unless you go forward with this divorce, you caving was just a delaying action until the next time she decides the solution is to file for divorce and pressure you to move yet again.  All her problems will still be there but you will be even more financially strapped.

Sadly, staying together without her diligently applying meaningful therapy in her life and perceptions, this will not end well.

Rather than buy a more expensive house, try renting.  At least you wouldn't have 15 or 30 years of expensive obligations.

Really, at any point before you sell the house or buy the more expensive downsize model, you have the right to reassess your life and decisions and recant agreeing to a switcheroo.  After all, you as an adult have every right to reconsider prior decisions or capitulations.

Translation:  Just because you caved under pressure doesn't mean you have to stubbornly follow a path that you know doesn't fix her issues nor could end well.

Sorry, she hasn't changed.  She happier (for now) but not you (you're still terrible in her eyes.

Reality check:  If you're so terrible why would she want to stay with you, really?

She has a mental illness, her thinking and perceptions are warps, it's all about herself and whatever it takes to find the end of that rainbow.  Despite being mentally ill, it''s not severe enough to get her committed to an institution but it is enough bad that you need to protect yourself and the kids.

Do you mean they're not emotional punching bags already?  Believe us, they surely are impacted.  After all, even if you try to minimize the incidents and relentless disparagement, "the walls have ears."  They know.

You are right. 

I'm delaying with hopes she moves on to something else, but this one is different.  Been going on about a month now and doesn't seem to get better.

Renting or buying still costs money to move.  We have too much furniture and too many dogs to even make sense of this all for her to temporarily feel better, but it's inevitable this won't solve her issues, and she'll be mad at something else.  Our therapist told me before she quit that she needs chaos in her life.  I lt helps her not think about her childhood.

My step son thanked me for coming into his life.  Said before me when it was just him and his mom she would beat him.  She's never been physical with me or the kids but she definitely screams.   Normally I can jump in and get her to yell at me instead  of them.  As my kids get older I notice a couple of them now like to yell and scream.  I just don't know how I feel not being there half the time.  She's very high functioning and presents amazing so I doubt any accusations of abuse would hold up. She even repeats things so many times around the kids thatbthey start to repeat it.  It's terrible living here, then my son tells me the same thing, don't even think he knows why it's terrible living here.   She dies that all the time.  Says all I care about is myself so my daughter started telling me that.

She told me she's moving and it's non negotiable then made dinner and started talking to me like things were normal.  We even took the kids to the park and she was smiling and talking to me.  How can anyone even act normal going through this? It's just nuts to me.

She actually applied for a mortgage but got a bad broker.  They told her she was pre approved and she reached out to a realtor.  I did the math repeatedly to make sure it wasn't a mistake on my part, and it's not.  She definitely does not qualify.

I set up an appointment with a counselor near me but that's a week out. 

[ForeverDad]

Normally I can jump in and get her to yell at me instead  of them.  As my kids get older I notice a couple of them now like to yell and scream.  I just don't know how I feel not being there half the time... She even repeats things so many times around the kids that they start to repeat it.

So yelling and twisting reality happens whether you're there or not. 

Staying - they're exposed to her all the time.
Leaving with the kids - they're only exposed to her some of the time.

Also, you're not setting a good example by appeasing and being manipulated.  It's like a war zone, constantly being overrun with skirmishes and brinkmanships.

She told me she's moving and it's non negotiable...

Pause a moment... You know that you can't negotiate with an emotional terrorist.

She actually applied for a mortgage but got a bad broker.  They told her she was pre approved and she reached out to a realtor.  I did the math repeatedly to make sure it wasn't a mistake on my part, and it's not.  She definitely does not qualify.

Are you a broker?  Remember 2008, the Great Financial Crisis?  What broke the camel's back was the real estate and mortgage bubble, loans that the government and system encouraged whether buyers were qualified or not.  And it's happening allover again.  Your math may be right, but everything is going in the other direction,as though swimming upstream.

Also, that broker was surely told you'd be one of the buyers.  The real question is, Would it go forward without you?  What real estate can she buy on her own credit and income?

It seems you're hoping against hope that someone else will say No to her.  Um, don't count on it.

[mikejones75093]

So yelling and twisting reality happens whether you're there or not. 

Staying - they're exposed to her all the time.
Leaving with the kids - they're only exposed to her some of the time.

Also, you're not setting a good example by appeasing and being manipulated.  It's like a war zone, constantly being overrun with skirmishes and brinkmanships.

Pause a moment... You know that you can't negotiate with an emotional terrorist.

Are you a broker?  Remember 2008, the Great Financial Crisis?  What broke the camel's back was the real estate and mortgage bubble, loans that the government and system encouraged whether buyers were qualified or not.  And it's happening allover again.  Your math may be right, but everything is going in the other direction,as though swimming upstream.

Also, that broker was surely told you'd be one of the buyers.  The real question is, Would it go forward without you?  What real estate can she buy on her own credit and income?

It seems you're hoping against hope that someone else will say No to her.  Um, don't count on it.

Yes yelling and screaming happens.  My step son that I raised told me to get the kids.  Said don't let them go with her.  He told me when I wasn't around it was bad for him.

She's already grooming the kids.  My daughter told me they are moving and mommy told her but she hasn't told me yet.

I'm trying to calm her down but yes,  you can't negotiate.  How sick.can she be to act like everything is completely normal like she's not about to end her 15 year marriage.

I am a mortgage broker,  and a very good one.  She got some young kid on the phone that has no clue.  She won't qualify.  It's not even close.  She's scheduled to go look at homes with a realtor this Saturday. 

She offered to basically give me everything with no child support.  I'm damn near tempted to take it.