I slept with her, now she is acting as though we are back together

[Steppingforward]

This thread was split from https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=332518.0

Just been rereading my posts and in light of people with BPD reading this. I feel upset as I’ve realised my comments appear cruel and derogatory towards people suffering from BPD.

I don’t hate my ex or even despise her nor even pity her. I care about her, always will. I allowed myself to go through this with her and it has made me realise my own faults, insecurities and well childhood issues.

When I say people with BPD have the emotional capacity of a child I never meant this to be hurtful. It was probably something I read which resonated with me.

What I mean is she has been so hurt growing up and she feels so much shame that she just well, in immense emotional pain. It’s a bit like asking someone with burnt skin to not scream when I just touch her. It’s not her fault.

But now I’m in another predicament. I went through the pain of the break up. I kept contact for the sake of her child. We ended up sleeping together. It just happened and even though I knew this was wrong I could not stop.

and now she is acting as though nothing happened we are back together.  I told her it was wrong to which she accused me of using her. I back down and confused,  say I obviously still have feelings for her, which I do. I left by saying I need time.

I know I should not be with her. I don’t want to. I just missed her so much. I’m so confused and now feel shameful that I slept with her.

Don’t know what to tell her.

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[Notgoneyet]

Steppingfoward,
 Try not to be so hard on yourself, these relationships are not easy to figure out or navigate clearly without hitting an iceberg or 2 --- or 12. 

(When I say people with BPD have the emotional capacity of a child I never meant this to be hurtful. It was probably something I read which resonated with me.) Your Quote.
  You did read it here most likely more then a few times.  I've read it here many times and in most books referencing BPD . Unfortunately a lot of pwBPD ARE simply stuck at an immature emotional age .  keeping that in mind is one thing that helps me remain calm during some of the crazy
 behaviors. (Mindfulness).

  Love is a complicated thing ! Not something that you can easily turn off when you want to or when you know it's the best for your own well being.  Sorry you are going through this rough patch.
 
 I've been blessed & sometimes I think (cursed ) with the ability to be extremely forgiving which is most likely one of the reasons we remain married after 35 yrs with a lot of extreme emotions, on &
 off addictions & mini breakup/ makeups.
 Things have continued to improve w myself & our rlsp. since I found this site ,much reading, & focusing on changing myself and the way I react or don't .

 Peace & Serenity to you  Steppingforward,    NGY

[Steppingforward]

Thank you NGY

I just didn’t want anyone with BPD reading it and despairing over it. I was just trying to say that this is how I felt but I don’t hate her as it’s not her fault she went through what she went through during childhood. That’s not anyone’s fault but I think they need to recognise that their emotions are almost childlike and if they just realise and put themselves in their partners  shoes they would see what they do to us (is this a lack of empathy/narcissistic?).

I personally can’t be with her for that reason and can’t forgive cheating. . Problem is I still love and care for her. I’m the same as you I’m a super forgiver (except for cheating), prob developed from childhood.

Thanks again NGY stay positive.

[SunandMoon]

This is a really hard situation SF and I feel for you.

Don't be too hard on yourself. It's obvious you both have strong feelings for each other and it was both of you who decided to sleep together; not just you.

It sounds like cheating is a strong boundary for you. And she's done it twice now. Have you asked her why? Have you had a chance to talk about it and what led her to do that?

Of course, pwBPD always want to deny their bad behaviour - put it in a box and never think about it again - so that things can go back to how they were before. She took your sleeping together as the sign that everything was okay. That's her disordered thinking and you don't need to blame yourself for that.

How are you going now?

[Notgoneyet]

 SF,
 Your Quote- " That’s not anyone’s fault but I think they need to recognise that their emotions are almost childlike and if they just realise and put themselves in their partners  shoes they would see what they do to us (is this a lack of empathy/narcissistic?)."

 Yes , My uBPDw hardly EVER shows empathy for anyone.
First noticed it maybe 20 yrs ago, didn't pay it much notice but then I really noticed how much of a part of her it was after some pretty horrific things happened in some friends & family members lives & I was expressing how terrible I felt for these pp. & she just kind of blew it off as NO Big deal . I'm talking houses burning down,  untimely deaths, illnesses. What person with a heart wouldn't feel empathy for them.
 Then a light when off w me this isn't normal emotional behavior. This was yrs before I was reading (SWOES)  I've read similar stories here many times.
 My W is high functioning when she's sober & occasionally will show a little empathy but it's a rare thing .
 I'm guessing that's one of the reasons they just can't feel or realize what they put us NONs through sometimes, sad but it is what it is I'm afraid.

  Forgiving the cheating was the hardest thing I've dealt w in a while, if not my lifetime. I learned early in life & its been reinforced in my12 step work/meetings that we forgive others wrongs for Ourselves ,NOT the other person.( It's not condoning their actions )It helped me leave it behind and move forward. It was one of the biggest things I did for MY Healing & I highly recommend it for anyone dealing w such hurt & betrayal.
   Hope & Strength to you ,  NGY

[Steppingforward]

Hi NGY

I know what you mean as she was similar in this way. I was telling how sad it was s colleagues husband at work has cancer. She went straight into whether I comforted her and questioned that and how this colleague is just a bitch who will just find another guy. She doesn’t know my colleague at all.

She showed empathy with gruesome news stories, like rape victims or animal cruelty but when it comes to her own or my family and friends, she shows no remorse unless it’s to elicit remorse from the person they are telling. In other words it’s got to be about her :”my friend lost her sister and I’m so upset about it”  cue crying and request for something to self soothe “I need something to smoke”. Then a few days later calling that same friend a bitch for not picking up the phone or returning a text even though the poor friend is grieving a loss.

It must have been very hard for you NGY. Cheating for me is just too much. This is my own insecurity that makes it worse tbh. What I’m afraid of is that she has a lack emotions to even feel guilty about it. When I caught her she felt  more guilt about me catching her and knowing what she did than her actually cheating on me!

If looks could kill me I would be dead as this cold almost psychotic look was her face until I stood strong and she started sobbing that they are just friends. Then when I showed her more evidence it went to just him forcing a kiss on her. Then more evidence she broke down and blamed her disorder and she knows now not to do it again!

What I don’t understand though is the jealousy and paranoia. She would accuse me of doing what she was doing behind my back on a daily basis. Why? Does this mean she did all the things she was accusing me off? Like accusing me of having threesomes at work, sleeping with my sister in law etc?

But it doesn’t actually matter now. What matters to me is what I’m going through.

I just can not stop thinking about her every single bloody day! I feel obsessed with reading and understanding what happened, Even reading about why I’m doing this does not help

My brain is arguing with my emotions everyday! I keep telling myself
1) this is what happened,
2) she is not capable of loving you healthily,
3)  You have self worth issues you need to deal with
4) What she did was not about you

Despite that I still miss her, yearn for her, love her, hate her, can’t stand to be with her and wish I never met her.  Sounds like I have BPD?

 Is this even possible? I never had issues in past relationships and analysed then to death in case I was missing something

But is it possible that you can develop BPD traits or am I just mirroring her after being enmeshed for 6 years?

So confused why do I obsess so much over her?

Have you NGY changed and started mirroring her? Not to that extreme but when I swear I have the I hate you but don’t leave me trait. When I’m with her I want out and now I’m out I want her back.
 

[Steppingforward]

SaM thanks for the post I instantly regretted that I slept with her.

I did ask her why she cheated. She still says to me she does not know why she cheated on me the first time. It was with the father of her child and she said she was trying to hurt him? I suspect I was the other guy at the time as he was heartbroken when I told him I’d been seeing her for three months. He left never to return not even to see his child.

This time round she blamed her disorder and that our relationship was, she thought, going to end, so this guy confused her.

Basically she was saying my behaviour drive her to it and she not a cheat. Kept screaming it at me! So yes she knows it’s wrong but outside forces forced her to it. She is only taking responsibility for lies she said.

Your absolutely right about her thinking that everything will go back to normal. I felt guilty as I know I should not have slept
With her. It started with a hug and kiss and it led on.

 It gave her ammunition to blast me for using her and how she does not sleep around and how she will have to get over this again. I was just cold and said, regrettably, that she needs to stop using sex as a tool to control others. I don’t like hurting her and that comment got to her big time.

Why when I’m not talking to her I feel so desolate inside like a part of me is missing? I just cant connect it. When I’m talking to her I feel this hurt and anger, can’t wait to get away from her and when I stop talking to her I yearn for her and obsess over her?

All this on top of the fact there is an innocent and broken child in the muddle of all this. I don’t want to abandon the child. I love the child like my own and he has me to talk to as the only mature parent. Sure they have fun together but she is almost like his friend. When it comes to parenting it’s almost non existent from her.

Just so hard I’m driving myself insane.

[Steppingforward]

Hi NGY

Sorry but I reread again your post and this intrigued and resonated with me:

“we forgive others wrongs for Ourselves ,NOT the other person.( It's not condoning their actions )”

Again sorry to be a pain but can you elaborate on this more? 

[Notgoneyet]

SF,
“

we forgive others wrongs for Ourselves ,NOT the other person.( It's not condoning their actions )”

Again sorry to be a pain but can you elaborate on this more?

 When we don't Forgive we remain(Stuck in the past) Not able to move forward in your recovery process.  You can forgive her for what she did w.o. ever having her ask , or apologize, or tell you she was wrong in hurting you the way she did. 
  By forgiving her you will relieve yourself of the past hurt she caused you & begin to move FORWARD. By doing so You Are NOT  accepting the wrong as a right, you are just accepting it ---- "Let it go" is a quote you will hear  in 12 step recovery meetings . Lots of pp find that they work very well.
     Another quote right out of 12 step books -
 "Do I realize that forgiveness can begin with me? Do I understand that not to take the time necessary to work through feelings and forgive can be a choice to reject freedom & remain a victim?" 
 
Does that sound like it something you could eventually work yourself through? Not an easy move I know from experience.
 
  Try some Forgiveness you Will be surprised with the results    NGY

[Steppingforward]

NGY

I think I understand, I will try. Just scared of forgiving and giving up this feeling for fear of me starting the relationship up again and getting hurt again. If I forgive I tend to also fully forget and in the past with her she went straight back to being needy and/or abusive after I forgave and forgot and was my normal self.

 I tried talking to her last night. She asked to have a talk so I did. It started ok with talks of her child’s wellbeing. Then she started talking about us.

She was sorry for all she’d done to me and how she can’t forgive herself. Then when I said I need time to think. It turned into why don’t I just move in with her and be a happy family again and just forget about what happened. Promises of changing.

I told her it was not just the cheating that was toxic. Tried and really tried not to express what happened in a non shameful way; how she treated me. From the lies about everything that suited her, manipulations, tantrums and projections and impulsiveness.

She didn’t like this too much (I thought she was lucid enough at this point to hear all that), says well I should find someone not like that. I still assured her that I’m not interested in ANY relationship with anyone else for the foreseeable future that I still love and care about her but she needs help and to be serious about the therapy. I even offered to be there for her child in the meantime but just not in a relationship with her. If she gets better then we will see how we both feel about each other.

She was angry but calmed down and said come round now to talk and she wants to hold me?. Obviously I did not go as this would of only led to one thing. She slams the phone and I’m left thinking agonising the whole conversation

Was I wrong to offer this to her? Just every interaction with her leaves me feeling bruised again just when I feel I have a grip on my own feelings and thoughts.

[Sandb2015]

Good evening Steppingforward,

It sounds like you are so clear on your boundaries and you've worked so hard on creating them and sticking to them.

Your question.  You did clearly state that you are willing to assume a role in her life and take responsibility if she does as well.

You did sow the seed of progress and time will tell.  You probably were expecting a progressive response and the waiting game sucks more than anything.

Can you give yourself credit for doing so much to improve yourself and the situation please?

[Steppingforward]

Thank you Sandb2015. Just a question of whether she will stick to the boundaries and really does acknowledge the problems and actually wants to face her demons. The hardest thing is feeling selfless in this.

I have feelings of insecurity, anger, jealousy and self doubt just like anyone else and I feel I’m repressing those feelings to allow her not to feel bad about what she did.

Last night I saw her for more talking and she still tried to use sex as a tool. I’m starting to see things like why is she being so dirty in the build up. It actually made me recoil from her. I’m a man and it’s very seducing but all I see now is that I’m not as special as she make out iam and she is just being a mirror to me. She is very good at that.

I refused sex saying that I’m not just interested in just that and I actually care about her and she does not to do that to keep me. I just want us to be partners in life but she needs to learn to love herself first.

She accused me firstly of having my needs met elsewhere if I don’t want sex. I didn’t react and just asked her to look at the question she asked calmly (normally I protest and it’s an argument). She did calm down and realised this was her paranoia.

The one thing I fear in all this is that the circle will turn. I have been here before and in days she can turn to devaluation. The good thing is I’m not buying into the ideation so my self worth is not being inflated by her to be taken away. I’m concentrating on building my self worth and esteem without giving it to her.

I’m educated, I work hard, I’m a kind friend, son, brother and boyfriend. Who Iam is no longer defined by her... Still feel I’m making a big mistake by keeping contact with her as despite me saying we aren’t she acts as though nothing happened.

I have to say this the hardest thing I have been through. Whatever the outcome this relationship has taught me a lot about me and my self esteem/worth issues.

[Notgoneyet]

  Wow SF,
  I must agree with Sandb2015 that you are making many positive changes in yourself, how you react, keeping yourself safe w  boundaries.   Great job & do give yourself credit for all of that, it's not an easy task with these kind of rlsps.
  We can only change ourselves & that's what you've been doing. Only time will tell if she takes your lead to positive change for herself.
  My uBPDw still tries using sex as a tool to manipulate me. It's difficult to resist it sometimes especially if it's been a while and I'm missing the intimacy that we used to have so much more of. 
 Still working on building good boundaries after finding out a few yrs ago that I didn't have enough to protect me from some of the crazy behavior. 

Was I wrong to offer this to her? Just every interaction with her leaves me feeling bruised again just when I feel I have a grip on my own feelings and thoughts.

   Only you can decide for yourself if you want to stay in touch or stay away. I think it's very noble of you to want to stay in touch for the sake of her son. If you stick to some strong boundaries of what you will & will not do I think you should be able to make that happen ,keeping in mind that MOM is still probably going to have some issues with you on & off.   
  Keep practicing the tools learned here & keep learning more.
Take care of yourself first & foremost SF. Its OK not to react to her anger , and wild emotions ,validate her feelings & step back to give her time to cool off /sort things out.
  Strength & Hope NGY

[Sandb2015]

Steppingforward,

Just for the record, I myself could not create that same boundary regarding sex (not a priority, not always available, Iwant it with her so badly).  When we do interact in person, text, phone, I am using all my tools and they seem to be working, when she is having an episode about my past and how it make her feel, I listen WELL-no facial or body expression and she spins down almost into a worn out and depressive state.  If she asked if something is true and VALIDE, I validate, if not, silence and listen with my my and heart.

Between walking on eggshells, radical acceptance, Brene Brown, +++, I am gaining light inside that I hid my whole life.

 Thank you Notgoneyet,

I am using tools and have formulated interior bounderies because I just haven't had the conflict needed to do so.  No yelling, fighting, just her quiet dysregulation and delusions that have no place anywhere which seem to be consistent now, basically her seeing everyone's role from my past and how they are influencing her and my role as individuals.  More fantasy than anything else.  I don't challenge, I listen to her feelings with sincerity and it shows that I am absolutely present without any sign of a comeback or correction.

I'm so good at giving advice, I feel good giving it, it's fulfilling.  I will take my own some day soon.

[Steppingforward]

Thank you NGY. I’m trying to be strong with boundaries. Not reacting to her yourself and taking a step back really does help. Only problem I find is you internalise your feelings which can’t be good. As I have been doing this for 6 years it built up and up and when the devaluation came and I’m talking about the complete splitting (not the everyday projection)which lasted 4 months it broke me (that was when I joined here).

Thank you I would not see it as noble I love her child like my own. He broke down the other day and had to comfort him. He cried and cried that his Mum shouts at him when she is in a bad mood. I could see her panicking, despairing but it turned into anger accusing him of all sorts. It’s those moments that I just want to take him away from it all.

The thing is these dark aspects that comes from her ( emotional abuse, anger, jealousy impulsiveness) is starting to feel that it is her. Almost as though she wears masks and when that masks drops there is no longer an adult there but a hurt abused child thats hitting out at the world. Thank again for your replies NGY you have no idea how much this has helped.

Sandbox - I’m not that good at it. I too crave the intimacy with her I try to see these as self masturbation.

It’s not real. I find she does not crave intimacy as the sex always, well, turns into a porno with her leading it. I find with her she can’t stand making love with me slowly and intimately.

If you read my other posts I’m the same. I’m good at giving advice and not taking or following advice. I think with me it’s my own self esteem and self worth issues. In other words I see the good and potential in others but give up hope on myself.

I’m getting better and I have been like this all my life. So I can take the positive from this relationship in that it has woken me up that I’m my own worse enemy (bit late at 40 but hey .

That part you mentioned about no facial expression and validating I need to try more. She is very good at reading me though.

Everyone, again, thank you for all this, just speaking with you all has been very good for me.