I have been on here for a few months and have received amazing compassion and guidance. Thank you.

My H is mean. To an extent he always has been. He is also smart, funny, charming and CAN be kind.

We met at university. My previous bf also went to the same school (we dated 3 years, some in lower secondary, then a year during uni).  So, unfortunately, H knew OF him.  Old bf ran his mouth (I didn’t know it at the time, nor do I have any idea what he actually said vs. what H has contrived (and knowing he was probably trying to make my now H angry/jealous). So over the years, H has let some “ideas” slip out. I’ve denied the crazy (mind you I was completely honest about my past at the beginning of our relationship (one bf, few other dates, that’s it).

These “ideas” have absolutely escalated to horrific. 

My mom passed away when I was in university and I’ve long thought my family’s mini collapse made me cling to H for support. Little did I know it was a huge mistake. My dad did and warned me b/c of an event that happened at school.  We worked through it and they became sort of close. My dad was a KIND man, but I sometimes found it a bit challenging to deal with him, but an overall really good person.

My sister is also challenging (I consider these the “normal” family challenges) and H took issue with her free spirit. He “created” an issue about 10 years ago that I believed whole cloth. I discussed with her but was also caring for 4 little kids and I made the bad decision to take a step back to cool things off. H kept reinforcing that she was bad. That step back turned into years of little or no communication.  I stupidly thought H was trying to protect me.  I realize now he was removing all of my support.

To complicate things, years ago, my parents adopted a child.  She lived with us even after my mother passed and my dad put her through school, etc., etc.  Around the same time as my sister divide, this now grown woman got mixed up with a guy who got into trouble for hurting a child (they’re still together). My family believed her that it was just a misunderstanding, but I did not (too risky with 4 kids to watch over). And H was adamant that he was horrible and any of my family that would still talk to him was no longer welcome. That was everybody. I did stay in contact with my dad but the visits were fewer and further between.

Dad passed last summer. Here I am left with no one. Not one person to help me or talk to and even though I think my sister might help me, if H found out I am certain he would fight to take the kids from me because they would be exposed to this other guy (so he says).

We haven’t spoken in days. He came and sat with me and my son the other night to watch a show we always watch together but didn’t really address me. He was good fun, just not to me. Last night he refused again to eat with us (I set the table with his setting, too, called him to dinner, etc.). After I go to bed, he will come down and scrounge for food (perfectly good meal/leftovers for him, but he won’t eat what I made).  He also throws out “unhealthy” foods so I don’t eat them. Wasn’t anyway.  He does it so it’s obvious he did. Like he scooped all the ice cream out in the garbage (I could smell it in the morning) but put the empty carton back in the freezer. Surprise, looking forward to it, there isn’t any. I don’t eat ice cream anyway; it’s for the kids. 

He went to work today (the source I believe of his current dysregulation) and once again left the house unlocked. My son suggested doing the same when H is due home so he’d think it was that way all day. I laughed, but ultimately decided not to let on that it bothered me.

When he got home, I said hello and he just looked at me and went to our room. I texted him that dinner was ready (impersonal, but documenting behavior/communication) and he replied with “I’m not coming to dinner until you answer my questions.”  He called me Mrs. exBF name (he does that A LOT!). Told me the situation would continue UNTIL I answered him (this is a NEW boundary and one I am unwilling to break). And then he dug up an old picture he found of me and exBF (from 30 years ago) and sent it to me.

I cried through dinner.  I had to leave. My two youngest were there. The youngest is oblivious (like how long does dad not feel well?) and my 12 yo is very aware and is definitely being impacted.

What do I do?  Call my sister and ask her for help — I don’t know if she would and she is opposite side of the country. Go see an attorney about my rights and what to do?  This is risky, b/c guess what? H is in the legal profession and I worry another might give him the heads up and there is no turning back from either of these. 

I don’t see how this relationship can be saved. I think he is pushing me to the breaking point so he doesn’t have to be the bad guy. Surprise the older 3 know his game and almost beg me to go. 

Oh, and I currently have no job and kids that can’t be left alone. H wanted me to stay home with kids and made enough to support us.  I always worked from home, but the last few years have been more unsettled on this front.  So work is unsteady and pay was more for incidentals and extras. (FF, I don’t know how often you pop over to this board, but I know you’ll point out how much control I handed over.  Ugh, rose colored glasses believing we were BOTH supporting the family!)

Welcome any thoughts, suggestions, advice. Happy to answer any questions. Really do anything to find some peace.

Bless all you kind people!  Your support and patience is invaluable!

Hello FF,

Ugh...okay.

Ideas...he says he knows everything about my first time. He says he was told ALL the details. Old bf either told him or told his friends who told him. I don’t know, probably some of both. I don’t believe this anymore because some of what he believes he knows is wrong.

The thing is, when H and I started dating, I told him basically everything (not graphic play by play, but just it happened).  He wasn’t bothered at the time. He says now it’s because he didn’t plan on marrying me.

He tells me I’m married to my old bf because he was my first. I mean he slept with someone when he was 16 — I guess they’re married. And what about all the people who lost their virginity to someone they didn’t marry?  Are they really not married to someone else with a piece of paper?

I am NOT on a moral high ground. Looking back, I was probably too young at 18, but back in those days it seemed everyone around was doing it and we had been dating a couple of years so just did.

He believed it happened in the fall, which is when my birthday is. This is not true and I’ve told him but he won’t believe me. The whole fall is a nightmare.  He now, after 25 years, he has concluded it was a birthday present (?) so my birthday is a horror of comments and rages. It’s so bad now, if I discuss kids birthdays, he becomes dysregulated that birthdays are so significant to me. Bloody h, aren’t they to most people and NOT for the reason he thinks? And he’s warned me 6 months in advance that it’s going to be bad. Am I just supposed to look forward to it?

Before I knew about BPD, I told him I no longer remembered details. Stupid I know, but I did it as a defense mechanism to get the interrogations to stop. And this was after 10-15 years of it popping into our world. So that in of itself puts me in a pinch b/c I can’t refute untruths.  Truth is, I NEVER even think of this bf unless he brings it up.  Big mistake on my part.

I’ve told him these have been asked and answered a thousand times and there is nothing new. He just comes up with a variation.

So right now he wants answers to whether the first time was “good” and if it happened more than once. He says he knows the answers (which morph in his head).

He believes I lied to him about seeing my old bf ever after we broke up.  I didn’t, but he is convince I must have. From 30 years ago. 

How could I prove either of these things and why should I have to?  I told him the truth a million years ago. 

This is the one boundary that I am holding onto. I will no longer answer crazy untrue questions about my past. I have been with my H longer than forever and have never been unfaithful. Ever, period end of story.

I am on edge always not knowing what the next thing that will set him off is. I don’t know what word or thought or what. It is downright exhausting

What else do you need?  I have a 100 more stories like this.

I can tell you about the occasional believing something he dreamed happened in reality (it didn’t), about the time he thought he hit someone in his car (he didn’t, I was with him) and the absolute anxiety ridden meltdown he had b/c he really thought he had. These huge delusions are not often, but when provable are kind of concerning and, imo, she’d some light on the mixed up thoughts in his head.

I will take any help I can get. Bless you...

So, read the article about invalidation.  That's your future. 

What do you think he "gets" from your reaction to his questions?   (hint..it's not about "the fact of the matter")

Let's clarify something:  He is asking about something that happened how long ago?

Best,

FF

Hi FF,

I have no idea what he gets from it?  Some kind of release of pain he is suffering?

I’ve discussed, I’ve tried to redirect and point out nothing to be gained, and now putting my foot down not discussing.

He says he will only come around IF I answer his questions. To be clear, I gave you the PG version. The vile that spews from him is virtually unimaginable (geesh, he messaged them to me, so no way I misinterpreted or forgot).

I’ve told him I heard him, that I’m know it’s hard, etc., etc., but nothing has made him better.  Everything is a trigger, everywhere a minefield.

He won’t speak to me, he won’t answer the phone. Just messages. So what now?

Do I message? And what do I say?

Even if I figure out today, how do I do tomorrow and the next day?

I can handle conflict, I can’t handle vile spewed at me because we ran out of bread.

I really don’t mean to be difficult, despite that I am being difficult. 

How does it stop?

Oh...so really..."I'm going to be an azz to you, unless you do what I want?"  

Hmmm...?

Probably should give in and give him what he wants..right?  That should stop the questions..right?

If so...then...

If not...then...

Doesn't that kind of answer the question?

Best,

FF

 No, FF,
 
It doesn’t answer the question!

I’m on day 4 or 5 of refusing to answer and he’s not giving in either. I enjoy the peace but am devastated if I’m doing the right thing.

Azz, yes! 

You’re a disgusting slut? I’m mad at you cuz you won’t sleep with me.  Whiplash!

So, in my very daft self, you’re saying to continue not giving in on answering the questions?

And, how do I validate or not invalidate?

I’m sorry...I know this is so obvious to you.  I’ve been on the outside of problems that were so clear but the person involved couldn’t see it. That’s where I am. Spinning and spinning.

You have the patience of a saint, btw.

Hi Cat,

Thank you.  To be clear, he has never physically hurt me.  I may have mentioned a couple stern brush bys and he definitely “feels” intimidating when he’s dysregulated.

That said, he has, on occasion broken things.  I never looked at that as violence, but now realize how dumb I’ve been. 

But, I have some concern whether a pwBPD could/would get violent if so used to getting their way and then not.  But, for now, I don’t think that’s an issue, but something I am mindful of.

I read the article and agree this may be an extinction burst. My refusal to answer is not some righteous line in the sand (although reasonable and deserved), it honestly feels like the only snippet left to hold onto my sanity.

When H is not around, I am carefree, have friends around town who squeal and hug me when we run into each other and we laugh.  None of them know the turmoil behind the scenes. And, truthfully, until the last few years, it was just episodes a few times a year and nothing lasting more than a day. And, of course, the usual marital squabbles, but not this.

Or maybe I just chose to forget or placated him so many times, I lost track.

One other piece of info.  He’s told me on several occasions that if I left, he would NEVER chase me b/c I’m not his true love. Is this BPD or truth?

And, while I plan to hold tight to this boundary, I can’t help believe that despite his take being totally delusional and disgusting, that he does believe it AND does feel like I’m a disgusting slut.  Maybe it’s true and not BPD talking...maybe having the virginal wife was the most important thing to him (he knew I wasn’t, and still married me)...so if that is the case, then perhaps there is no hope for resolution.  But why wait for 25 years and 4 kids?  Because I was going to make it better, but I didn’t.

He’s not right in his response, presentation but maybe this IS a deal breaker for him.  I don’t know how to tell.

But, either way, this is a line I am no longer willing to cross.  I simply won’t, so I guess it doesn’t matter if it’s real or BPD imagined, it’s my boundary to maintain.

Oh Cat!

I wanted to have him and my family intact, with mutual respect and to be able to be myself and be emotionally safe within these confines.

It’s funny, sometimes when I’m trying to pull him out of a dysregulation, he will say “what do you want?”

You know my answer? 

I can’t have what I want. I want you and my family and mutual love and support and to never talk about this topic again. 

He’ll say we can only try. But the conversation never changes.

I’ll do something — not zip my coat, be up and about but not showered yet (sticky point with him), not wear socks in the house or any number of inconsequential things and off we go.

I really can handle the marital banter/minor discord.  I can’t handle character assassination, belittlement and rehashing my immorality.

Is there a chance for this?

This one boundary can’t be enough, but yet I can barely manage holding on to it, let alone any others needed.

Thanks all...just a slight change of direction.

FF, often says to dip your toes in to see if pwBPD is back to baseline before trying to move ahead.

Dipped that toe yesterday (or the day before...everything is blurring together at this point), and just got the repeated demand to answer his questions.

He didn’t come home last night and stayed at a hotel.  I found out early evening and it was kind of a relief knowing he wouldn’t be here playing games. But also sad.  Just sad.

Couple of things...

I assume I should keep cautiously checking if he’s back at baseline.  Any suggestion on how often that should be?

Since it’s the weekend he’s either going to disappear or decide to come home.  In the slimmest chance that he’s soothed himself back to baseline, what communication is best?

Don’t address the issue unless he brings it up?  Like leave him at baseline for a while.

Or, tell him that I’m glad he’s feeling better and then gently explain that I feel attacked about something that has been addressed so many times with nothing new and I’d really like to avoid the personal attacks so we can find a more productive way to address issues?

I just want to be giving some thought about different possible resolutions b/c as I’ve said before, I’m not quick on my feet.

Thanks all for your continued (and so very patient) support.

Hi FF,

Well, since he won’t actually speak to me, and honestly I’m not trying to push a F2F right now, I’ve just messaged him about dinner and what it is. Just going about my business.

I just get “I’m not doing X until you answer my questions.”

And then no further exchange.

Yesterday I thought he maybe hadn’t gone to work b/c his favorite casual clothes were gone and it looked like all his suits were there.  He told my son he might do something fun, which sounds great and might be good for him BUT it would have only been his second day back to work after a week off. I realize he had just packed a bag b/c he wasn’t coming home.

I do understand that getting this to change could take a while. I even cry thinking about how tortured he must be to behave this way.

But I also cry for myself and my kids because we don’t deserve this instability.  No one does.

I’m hoping he’ll calm down and maybe want to fix things and we can have a meaningful conversation about how that happens, including boundaries.

But, I also fear this is the same pattern as his father, who was having an affair (I don’t think H is, at least yet, but I have been wrong before), and when MIL found out, she tossed all his things out of the house. This was FIL’s final straw (funny, did he think she would be ok with the affair?).

I’m not behaving irrationally or inciting him. I’m doing laundry, making meals, cleaning, taking care of the kids and making no demands other than my boundary.  And yet I think this could be the reason he decides HE has had enough.  So I am I pushing a boundary that is actually going to have the opposite result I am trying for?

I don’t know.

Please share a dialogue (at least my side) that could test the waters better and maybe even elicit a better path forward.

Appreciate the help!

In the future, there may be some things you choose to do other than "wait".  For now, "waiting"  is the best thing.

Take much of the time and energy that you would have used for "the crazy" and devote it to learning an understanding this disorder.

Take another big chunk and take your "self-care" up several notches.

Let's circle back around to the "education piece.  I'm much more interested in your knowing and truly understanding why the "tactics" we teach here work and why the things done in your relationship for many years didn't get your desired outcome.

From that knowledge, you will be able to "be more agile" when he tries to shift things around on you (with a likely goal of getting "the old you" back)


Oh by the way, using "dinner" and other common things like that is a wonderful way to "dip your toe in the water".

Best,

FF

Thanks FF,

And so I wait.  I am really trying to take care of me and I’m flipping between fear, knowing it has to be done, wondering if I’m pushing him away and wondering if I care. Who is cycling now?

So I wait.  I will try to test the waters when I can, but then I wait.

It’s funny...he hates the thought of therapy (always had “good” reasons  ).  In the past few months he’s expressed not wanting to let certain things bother him so much.  He hates when people “copy” him, but when MIL did, he expressed a want to not let it bother him.  Shocking. So some part of me dreams that he doesn’t want to be attacking me either.

Can’t fault a girl for dreaming...

Thanks, as always, for being a voice off reason. I wait. And will update if I ever have anything new.

Thanks FF,

I have read this several times AND it is funny how I see it/understand it a bit differently/more each time. I will read a few more and let it sit (I am just waiting after all!) and come back to it in a day or two.

 

BUT, H has checked into the hotel again.  I’m getting pretty pi$$ed at the blatant waste of money, especially when he’s withholding week’s of pay.  This is the 3rd hotel in 2 weeks (1 in the mini episode just prior to this, where he also went to expensive dinner and I had to race to keep money in the bank so we didn’t get hit with fees...you may recall this).

So, I transferred most of the money out of that account (I need it to pay actual bills!) and turned off the overdraft. Both can be undone fairly easily but I’m just tired of being prudent and him just being so damn selfish on top of everything else. I left enough in there that a reasonable person could more than sufficiently get by on, but not enough that he could prevent me from getting by for a few days.

Do I:

1. Leave it as is and if he is unreasonable in his spending, then so be it
2. Put whatever money he “needs” in until he gets back to baseline. This could continue to deplete my very small nest egg that I may need very soon
3. Message him that I see he’s spent about $1200 dollars on hotels and eating out the last couple of weeks AND is 3 weeks behind on pay AND I can’t pay the bills. Just letting him know.

Like I just don’t even know which way to turn at this point. Can he just stop providing for me/his kids because I won’t allow him to call me a slut any more?

Help...I’m just beyond what to do right now.

Hi Cat,

IMO, yes.  We have an extra bedroom with my middle son at college.  He could come home and not interact. We have 2 separate spaces to relax, adult and kid...I’m happy to occupy the kid space and he knows it.

He owns his own business and takes a weekly salary (and sometimes there’s a bonus/extra, like 2 or 3 times a year). BUT sometimes there are blips where they don’t get paid, so he may get behind a week or two, but generally will eventually get caught back up. 

What makes me crazy is that he won’t tell me when he won’t have a check, so I go about paying bills assuming he’ll have his check and then he won’t and had I known, I might have waited a week on the car service b/c I have to buy birthday presents or something. He doesn’t get this.  And, I’m not keen on dipping into the small savings on regular bills. 

So, it’s possible he has checks. He’s not here and we’re not talking so I have no idea. He took money out so probably saw the balance and decided to get another hotel,  but I’d rather keep the electricity on and feed my children.

So truthfully, the money control isn’t entirely new and he likes to spend it.

Thanks for sticking with me as I’ve ranted on this thread...

So, you feel that even though he’s dysregulated, I should let him bear the consequences of his secondary actions here?

Maybe he won’t keep spending —I left more than enough for a weekend if he’s not stupidly selfish.

I just didn’t know if this might tip him over the edge.