Catch her being good question?

[Tkwoody]

My sd9 who we are currently having tested for BPD does something that I wanted some feed back on.

When my hubby and I " catch her being good" she OVER exaggerates helping behavior to the point of annoying. It is as if she is absolutely starving for attention. This is a well or void that no human could ever possibly fill. This chronic need for attention, even and especially, if we are doing the "catch her being good" behavior management, does it ever calm down? Does that insatiable need for attention ever go away?

It makes me not want to even complement the desired behavior because then I know she is only going to try 1000 times harder to please, which I am sad to say, is somewhat annoying in itself.

Help?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Eclaire5]

I noticed that behavior in my dd20 since she was little. It does get a little better with age, but I don’t think it goes away entirely. What I did for the most part was just to reward behavior that was outstandingly good (like A grades, winning a competition, etc), but never on behavior that should be expected, such as completing chores, passing classes, and behaving well in public. BPDs have a huge need for attention, and they do seem to be insatiable, which can be terribly draining on us…

[Tkwoody]

Eclaire5,

Thank you for the info. I would love to know more about behaviors you saw in your daughter when she was young, like 8-10 yrs old? I am having such a time finding info on such topics.

Please share if you feel comfortable.

[mamachelle]

Hi Tkwoody,

It has not worked for my SS10 really. He will over do the good stuff and then still do wacky stuff that is not good so I feel like a hamster in a wheel going round and round... .  

There was an interesting thread recently on this:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=199724.0

I would not say you should stereotype all kids with BPD as not being able to process praise, but there seems to be a lot of us dealing with the

"caught being good" problem of it not really working or making a kid feel worse. I guess your SD is enjoying it but then it just fills up the day with these good acts that are either un needed or almost manic in nature. I mean like if we praise him for cleaning up then he wants to drag the vacuum out in the middle of the living room while everyone is watching tv and vacuum. Or he will demand a new bin from target to organize his stuff. Or if we say he is singing well, he wants voice lessons... .  it just goes on and on... .  

A reward type system can work, teaching kids how to take a time out for themselves, centering activities... .  this book below is excellent for getting you started in restoring some peace in your home.

Parenting a Child Who Has Intense Emotions: Dialectical Behavioral Therapy Skills to Help Your Child Regulate Emotional Outbursts and Aggressive Behaviors - Pat Harvey, ACSW, LCSW-C, and Jeanine Penzo, LICSW

Using validation and praise together are good, but in my experience it will not change the behavior in and of itself. I find myself avoiding praising for superficial stuff with SS10 for exactly the same reasons you note. When I praise it has to be for something I think is good and usually I do it after the fact and not while the act is in progress. For example, "wow, you really behaved this time -- when we went into Subway with your brother. I remember when you were younger and you guys knocked eachother over on the floor while I was ordering... . good job!"

mamachelle

[Tkwoody]

Mamachelle,

Thanks for the info. I read the article. It is interesting how praise can have the adverse effect. Such a backwards way of thinking, really.

Just tonight we had yet another episode.

I can't wait for the neuropsyc analysis.

Thanks again

[Eclaire5]

I remember a particular incident in which my daughter, who at the time was about 8 y/o, gave half of her candies to a little girl who was out begging with her mom (we were on vacation in South America and you see many indigenous people with their kids asking for help on the street). I praised her her telling her what a great gesture, but sometimes even to this day she brags about it! Once I noticed that if I praised her for something she would either over do that behavior or brag about it with everyone, I limited my praises to just the outstanding behavior and even then I would say it kind of matter of fact without too much excitement. She still tells me from time to time when I say "you did very well, nice job, etc... . " that I don't sound that excited so I am probably not meaning what I'm saying. I usually just respond that I do mean it but I can't change the way she perceives my response.

[Tkwoody]

Eclaire5,

I see the same thing with my sd9. If I say she did something well, she tells the enire world about it. I think it is a self esteem thing. It is as if she finally found something she feels someone thinks is good about her so she wants the world to know. It is a double edge sword though, you give the complement, the annoying behavior exacerbates, you ignore the desired behavior, you can't express that you want it to continue.

What to do?

[parent of bpd daughter]

Hi TKWoody,

I am sorry for your situation and as I parent of BPDD dealing with this for more than 15 years, I have some 2 cents too

1 - Therapy - are you yourself in therapy? If not, please consider doing so. If this is BPD, it is not a disease that can

be dealt with without the help of competent therapists for all involved. It is impossible for us lay people to know what

to do to mitigate symptoms without the help of trained professionals for US.

2 - I am not aware of BPD "tests" per se for 9 year olds. What I have been told is that personality disorders cannot

be properly diagnosed using DSM-IV/V criteria until during/after adolescence because behavior has to be long term and

9 years is just too young I am told. I too noticed behavior in my BPDD at very young age, yet diagnosis not possible

I was told until after and/or during adolescence. Perhaps there is co-existing ADD/ADHD or other treatable condition

that may be helped by meds? I am not a professional, just been in this BPD hell for a very long time.

3 - At the age of 9 - if no physical or sexual abuse has occurred, I would suspect some strong genetic components.

Have you checked out "23 and me" genetic testing kits - they range from $150 - $500 - you get the kit, spit in a tube

send it in and get results - I did this for me and convinced my BPDD after a fashion to do it too. Turns out we each

have the genetic marker for Bipolar which is often comorbid with BPD - this may give you some more clues to the behavior.

At such a young age showing symptoms - I would want to test for genetic markers if I were you.

Okay - that's my 2 cents - hoping I did not offend or otherwise upset anyone - I have been at this game for such

a long time - I just hope to help others reduce suffering by going straight to the heart of the matter.

Regardless - it's not easy for any of us I know.

Peace be with you.

[Tkwoody]

Parent of BPD daughter,

This info is wonderful. I had no idea there was a genetic test available. That is fascinating! I am quite certain the bio mom would have no part in it though. The therapist will do wonders tough.

The neuropsyc (if I understand correctly) is testing or screening for anxiety, depression, ADHD, and personality disorders. At least that is what the therapist requested they do. I will know more this Friday  hooray!

I am looking for a therapist now to help ME deal with my sd9 because all this dama is tearing our house apart at the seams.

Thank you again

[vivekananda]

Hi Tkwoody,

It must be a really uncertain situation for you. I do hope the neuropsych results give you the direction that you want.

I have checked my resources and reflected on my own situation and here's how it appears to me.

First, my dd was always a difficult child, from infancy. Highly sensitive especially, colicky, difficulty sleeping, strong willed, and so on. But to all outsiders it appeared that everything was fine. So, as she is my first and only, I accepted that. There is a strong genetic predisposition in my family and I suspect dh's family - now I know that... .  before last year, I didn't know about BPD. dd is now 32 and now people are seeing that all is not right... .  Whether things could have been different or not is almost irrelevant. We did the best we could. If I had known about validation maybe we could have worked through it... .  I don't know.

Second. The research. The Clinical Guidelines for Management of BPD (see link below) suggests that "there is not enough data to support the application of diagnostic criteria for BPD to a child under 12". Now, we are working on diagnostic criteria that are defined because of the work done on adults with the disorder, I understand. And I think the neuro psych testing is 'new' and untested itself. another problem is the confusion with other mental illnesses (eg bi polar, PTSD). See Identifying and Assessing BPD p 43 - 49, you can download for free from the link below:

The Clinical Guidelines for the Management of BPD (Aust)

Third. I think there is a reluctance to diagnose younger children because of insurance concerns. And there may still be those around who think a diagnosis of BPD is the worse thing you could do to anyone and who therefore won't use that term.

However, a diagnosis is important if possible, because the treatments for BPD is different to the treatment other illnesses require. But while we wait, it is helpful to read up on the skills we need to get us through: the Lundberg's book " I don't have to make everything all better" and "Boundaries - when to say yes, how to say no to take control of your life" by H. Cloud and J. Townsend.

Keep in touch Tkwoody, let us know how it goes,

Cheers,

Viv   

[Tkwoody]

Viv,

Thank you for the info. I am so nervous about the neuropsyc appt. if drs are hesitant for whatever reason to label a child with BPD, then I fear I am right back wherei started, the evil step mother who is looking to find fault in her poor sweet sd9. It is such a lonely feeling. The only person who has really been able to say sd9 behavior is not right is her 1st grade teacher and that was two years ago. I have been fighting ever since. Part of me prays for a label so I won't be considered crazy and cruel by family and so called friends. Part of me knows I should be grateful if the drs find nothing wrong.

I just remind myself this is all in Gods hands and just keep on praying.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Tkwoody]

Viv.

Awesome article! Thanks.

[mamachelle]

Viv,

Thank you for the info. I am so nervous about the neuropsyc appt. if drs are hesitant for whatever reason to label a child with BPD, then I fear I am right back wherei started, the evil step mother who is looking to find fault in her poor sweet sd9. It is such a lonely feeling. The only person who has really been able to say sd9 behavior is not right is her 1st grade teacher and that was two years ago. I have been fighting ever since. Part of me prays for a label so I won't be considered crazy and cruel by family and so called friends. Part of me knows I should be grateful if the drs find nothing wrong.

I just remind myself this is all in Gods hands and just keep on praying.

Hi Tkwoody,

Neuropychs don't usually diagnose personality disorders. They are there to help tease out what is neurodevelopmental and what is more mood or psychiatric or both... .  

It's not going to be the be all and end all-- just one more piece of the puzzle.

Make sure you are the one that fills out the main parental scales.

With results in hand, go next to a psychiatrist... .  You will get some help but I doubt a diagnosis of BPD-- more likely something vague pointing to emotional lability or emotion dysregulation with a dash of ODD and a sprinkle of blah blah. She already has an attachment disorder diagnosed already right? so I suspect that alone is a way to start getting her therapies/meds she needs.

 right in there with you,

mamachelle

[vivekananda]

pg 40 & 41 from that link identifies the risk factors:

1. Genetic risk factors

2. Environmental risk factors (others have defined the environment as family, community and culture - here it only refers to family)

3. Neurobiology etc (but it can't be ascertained if this is a cause or effect)

4. Precursors for BPD (incl disruptive behaviour disorders)

5. Non specific factors (trauma in the early years)

The thing is you are not the fault, but you can help fix it. Check out those books I suggested, that's the ticket. And if anyone tells you you're an evil step mom, you will have us to stand behind you and back you up!

Lots of best wishes,

Viv      

[peaceandhope]

Tkwoody,

I understand what you mean by exaggerating.

I feel my dd is always fishing for compliments.  This gets really annoying to me also.

I feel she has bf's only to hear them praising her.

I feel they feel so empty inside that praising some how fill up some need they have inside.

Peacandhope