What a great start to my morning

[Chosen]

Things were ok with uBPDh this morning.

And then he went to work (he goes earlier) then a while later I got some texts from him.

He was talking about people of the same faiths marrying (we're both Christians).

Then he said, "I think it's more important to have a wife who is willing to give to share to make sacrifices.  It is more important than faith."

I just said, "Yes"

... .  and another text from him, "I know Christian wife who is unwilling to give to share to make sacrifices."

I again only said, "Yes"

... .  and then I wondered where all this was coming from.  When you read this, do you think it is somewhat provoking?  Or is it just me who's overreacting? 

Of course, at the back of my head I know he'll never be satisfied with me, if I give 90% and not give 10% he will use this 10% against me, but every time this happens I can't help but feeling upset and completely inadequate.  I'm not perfect and I certain don't think I'm a very good wife, but again I don't think I'm worse than the next one.  But of course, his world is black and white and since I'll never make the 100% perfect wife I just have to settle with being the completely bad one... .  

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[elemental]

He is being provocative if he is talking about you.

What does he mean, specifically, about "give to share"?

[eeyore]

better to ignore it all... .  or just say thanks for the text... .  disengage.

[Chosen]

Disengage... .  that's what I did.

I just texted back, "Yes", and didn't ask him who, and didn't assume he's talking about me (although I think he is- otherwise he could easily have said, "xxx is a Christian wife who doesn't give and share and sacrifice." 

From my experience, I think he was being provocative on purpose... .  trying to stir up something.

Fortunately, after I disengaged, he didn't carry on with the topic.  Hard to completely disengage my own feelings though!

[eeyore]

you are lucky he stops.  When I disengage many times I get the extinction burst.  Constant repetitive button pushing.  He can't self soothe and looks to spar about anything he can when its about nothing.  I call it badgering.  Can you think of another definition because I'm not sure I have the right word to describe my experiences?

I have learned to self soothe and be quiet during the badgering.  I ask question like how can we help the situation?  Then I say nothing controversial.  I use lots of If I felt ... .     For example -- If was in your shoes and I felt like the grass was pink then I could see why you would want to rip all the grass out and get new grass.  Then I don't say anything more.  I let him filibuster and then ask is there anything else until he's done.  He'll say do you have anything to say.  I say no.  And then nothing.  Sometimes I say I only have hit__ minutes and then I have to _____.  After hit__ minutes I say I need to go we can talk later. 

Its a matter of no longer allowing the dysfunction to continue.  I remember the example of not picking up the gauntlet. 

[Chosen]

eeyore,  I also call myself lucky, but it's taken me a lot of hard work.  Believe me, I have gone through very bad extinction bursts too, and it takes a lot of re-training of myself and changing my mindset before I do things so opposite to what I want to do at that moment (which is to react to what he said).

And like you... .  it's day after day of remember never, ever to pick up the gauntlet.  That's a fight we can never win.

[waverider]

Thats the black hole of neediness you could give 100%, and would still not be enough. It is the need to need that is the drive. Neediness is like an addiction, it can never be fully satisfied

[laelle]

Thats the black hole of neediness you could give 100%, and would still not be enough. It is the need to need that is the drive. Neediness is like an addiction, it can never be fully satisfied.  

I never thought about quite like that, but i can see how someone can never be happy if what fills their need is to need.  Seems so cruel for someone to live like that.

[Chosen]

Here's where radical acceptance comes in... .  I'm still a long road to getting there.

How do I balance giving and changing myself and adapting to him without feeling bitter about never being appreciated?  I guess I first have to have some major adjustment on my expectation.

My logical mind understands this, but my heart doesn't yet.

[laelle]

I try not to look at it as I'm changing for him, but im trying to adapt myself to the lifestyle that I have chosen so I can be happy and healthy.

What your husband said was hurtful.  From what I know of your kind and loving post, I am certain you are a wonderful wife.  He probably felt the need to gain some control over something in his life (probably not even you) and decided to get it through hitting a nerve with you.  You did great to ignore it.  Let it roll off your back and get on with your day.  Not answering is sometimes the best response to a stupid statement. 

[waverider]

I try not to look at it as I'm changing for him, but im trying to adapt myself to the lifestyle that I have chosen so I can be happy and healthy.

This is the core value we are striving for on Staying. If anyone needs a mantra this is it.

Whatever "abnormal" relationship dynamics we end up with do not matter as long as we achieve a semblance of this. Even if it means pandering to endless neediness, if you are happy to do it, and a happy rewarding conflict free relationship is the result, then thats ok.

[yeeter]

I'm trying to adapt myself to the lifestyle that I have chosen so I can be happy and healthy.

+1 on this.   

[daylily]

Chosen, once again, we have similar dynamics.  We both have the same Achilles heel - our need to be a "good wife."  I know for me, what is frustrating is that I want to be everything to everyone, to be perfect.  Even if it were realistic to be a "perfect wife," we could never be that to our H's because, with them, the definition of "perfect wife" is a moving target.   

[DyingLove]

Things were ok with uBPDh this morning.

And then he went to work (he goes earlier) then a while later I got some texts from him.

He was talking about people of the same faiths marrying (we're both Christians).

Then he said, "I think it's more important to have a wife who is willing to give to share to make sacrifices.  It is more important than faith."

I just said, "Yes"

... .  and another text from him, "I know Christian wife who is unwilling to give to share to make sacrifices."

I again only said, "Yes"

... .  and then I wondered where all this was coming from.  When you read this, do you think it is somewhat provoking?  Or is it just me who's overreacting? 

Of course, at the back of my head I know he'll never be satisfied with me, if I give 90% and not give 10% he will use this 10% against me, but every time this happens I can't help but feeling upset and completely inadequate.  I'm not perfect and I certain don't think I'm a very good wife, but again I don't think I'm worse than the next one.  But of course, his world is black and white and since I'll never make the 100% perfect wife I just have to settle with being the completely bad one... .  

Chosen,

I'm no expert here, but one thing I've got to say, whether it involved BPD or any thing else for that matter, texts have a way of becoming misunderstandings quite often. I'm not saying in any way shape or form that your texts are being misunderstood, but when we don't hear the person's voice, or see their expression, things tend to take on a different color. Sometimes the written word is the only way to go when an explanation is coming across. From my experience there is at least a 30% chance that something is going to get twisted in a text. Now multiply that by the fact that after you misunderstand a text that was sent to you, you will probably respond to the misunderstanding thus multiplying the issue.

As much as I love talking to my significant other via text, phone call, email, there always seems to be the "I wish I never said anything in the first place" thought running through my head. Forgive me for saying, but, do you feel overly sensitive at least about this issue? I ask that because I hear something in you that I feel quite quite often.

[Chosen]

dyinglove no more,

I used to think that I was being overly sensitive.  In fact, I spent several years trying to "let it go", not feel anything.

Now I know that when I feel something's wrong, when I feel provoked, it is usually because he meant for it to happen.  He is trying to pick a fight and that's why he is pushing my buttons.

So what I do now is I actively trying to defuse the bomb, say, by not replying much, as you said, texts have a way of being misunderstood.  It is one thing if I misunderstood him, but almost anything I type will be used against me. 

Now I don't think whether I'm being overly sensitive.  I don't feel good about something and feelings are not wrong.  I'm not wrong.  But I don't intend to find out his original meaning because no good can come out of digging deeper.  Sometimes issues like that are best when let go.

[real lady]

How do I balance giving and changing myself and adapting to him without feeling bitter about never being appreciated?  

I challenged myself to answer this question for myself and you... .  a good one to ask and answer. One; HOW DO WE FIND BALANCE with a BPD in the first place... .  expecting them to NOT be EXTREME is unrealistic. I think that we need to FIND THE BALANCE between our thoughts/feelings and our actions/reactions... .  STEADY them and make them more constant and predictable. I think this gives a "steady" feel to our pwBPD and they are less likely to "go off"... .  it says NOTHING about what we feel about it... .  it is JUST a needed balance that I have found.

Giving... .  give without expectation of return. There is LITTLE to NO reciprocity. This hurts. But for me this is where RADICAL acceptance came in. I love and live with and gave my life up to be with a mentally and emotionally ill man who refuses to "get better".

Changing yourself... .  change first FOR YOU... .  withdraw, detach or think through things REMEMBERING that even a mention of your feelings could start an extinction burst and dysregulation on a grand scale. I have withdrawn. I DO NOT SHARE my thoughts with him. He is NOT safe for me. I take care of myself by NOT sharing some things and most of "who I am" with him. I am still me but he does not "see me" anyways.

Adapting to him... .  is NOT REALLY adapting to him, it is YOU becoming aware of what is volatile words or behavior that sets him off and avoiding it. To adapt to him might imply that you are trying to "placate" him and that could stem from and lead to codependent behavior. I would say NEVER adapt to him in the strictest sense... .  I see it as I CHANGE MYSELF for myself so I do not have to deal with all his drama and see NO evidence that it was worth it. No progress. No contact. No closeness. Adapting to him means engaging when I REALLY DO NOT HAVE TO... .  letting him "deal with himself" is the best that we can do for our pwBPD at times. We certainly cannot reach them if they are not willing.

I guess I first have to have some major adjustment on my expectation.

Radical acceptance. I finally learned it. It has helped my perspective on everything and though I have been very discouraged and even depressed over the broken promises, minimal resentment toward him has been allowed only to push me to DO what I need to do for myself... .  Not being around him as much is what I choose to do; not what he pushes me to do. We have more control over ourselves and they have LESS power over us than we may previously think, in my opinion that is.

My logical mind understands this, but my heart doesn't yet.

If you ask me, and you have, , I don't know if I don't know if my "heart" will ever "get it"... .  it has been betrayed BEYOND what I had ever imagined would ever happen with this man. My logical mind has to tell my heart that "this is the way it is" and my heart has to accept it, like it or not.

Wishing you well ((Chosen)) it is hard but you will make it through this... .  you have come THIS far and are ready to breakthrough to new understanding, love, acceptance and ability to give without expectation... .  the ONE thing that I can say about being in r/s with a man with BPD is... .  I am learning about myself and growing in ways that I could have NEVER done without him. I challenged myself and succeeded and so can you.

[Chosen]

Thanks real lady for your encouragement and advice.  I have accepted that I cannot change him, I can only change myself, and am balancing my communication with him by sometimes avoiding, sometimes ignoring, and other times just treading lightly.  But at least I have less fear now.  There was a period when I was fearful for every word I say, and I would literally start shaking when I felt him dysregulating. 

I have come a long way and I'm glad things are getting a bit better- still not "normal" and it perhaps never will, but at least he's not dysregulating as much, and the times are much shorter now... .  thanks to all the help I've got here!

[waverider]

Your id is "CHOSEN" not "PRESSURED INTO" if you ensure your actions match your id you will have little to regret, and much to be proud of. It is your life, you are not merely an extension of someone else.

Even if you chose to pander and enable, and get some reward out of that, thats ok if it was your own driven choice.

A workable relationship with an untreated pwBPD will be a dysfunctional one, but dysfunctional does not always have to be painful, just different

[eeyore]

As you change yourself in a better way the successes you have will allow you to get healthier.  As you get healthier your relationship has the opportunity to be healthier.  I found it odd how things I thought would set him off actually soothed him. 

Recently we were having a discussion and he was getting snarkey for lack of a better word.  Instead of reacting back which is what he was trying to get me to do.  I just looked at him and said I just think you are feeling a bit insecure about hit__ and I think rather than saying those things it would be helpful to have a real discussion about how you feel rather than getting all worked up about stuff that has nothing to do with the discussion.  I then said I had to leave to go to a scheduled event with my friend but I'd be back later.  Later he didn't say anything but the house had a calmness and I went about my business for a day or two.  He then calmed down thought about what I had said and then we did have a meaningful conversation... .  like normal people would have.   

I think in the past he would have gotten mad that I said he was insecure... .  but instead the dynamic has changed now.  I don't feel like I all the sudden woke up and it was like this.  It's been small steps forward and it's been a long time.  But I look back and see how different things are now. 

[DyingLove]

dyinglove no more,

I used to think that I was being overly sensitive.  In fact, I spent several years trying to "let it go", not feel anything.

Now I know that when I feel something's wrong, when I feel provoked, it is usually because he meant for it to happen.  He is trying to pick a fight and that's why he is pushing my buttons.

So what I do now is I actively trying to defuse the bomb, say, by not replying much, as you said, texts have a way of being misunderstood.  It is one thing if I misunderstood him, but almost anything I type will be used against me. 

Now I don't think whether I'm being overly sensitive.  I don't feel good about something and feelings are not wrong.  I'm not wrong.  But I don't intend to find out his original meaning because no good can come out of digging deeper.  Sometimes issues like that are best when let go.

Chosen,  I agree.  I see how "they" fightback and actually look for trouble on occassion. You are also right about not looking deeper.  It does open a can of worms. But that is so dependent on how much you need to find out. I would probably not find a need to look deeper until the smoke cleared, then I would be "itchin'" to discover wth was going on.  Does it matter in the long run? I just don't know either.  Keep on truckin'!  :-)

[Chosen]

I think usually given more time, we don't even need to dig deeper and we'll know they're triggered by something completely unrelated (or sometimes related).  H is definitely stressed about his work and I think it's definitely affecting his communications... .  

[laelle]