Children being considerate about other parent

[Teno]

What is normal behaviour for children to be considerate/thoughtful about the other parent? We've D7 and D9 and they are mostly well mannered and caring about friends and family. My SO has some issues with me about it.

This is floating in my mind: Are the kids taking up too much responsibility(Could it be from obligation, guilt?). Have I caused some of that? Sure there are things I could've done better, but that bad? I also realised that I feel FOG toward my SO when I spend time with the kids. My FOG and boundaries is something I've been working on.

1 - When I'm out with my Ds or D we might buy a sweet and they will ask: should we buy something for mum or for other  D we don't want her/them to feel left out or missing out? Sure lets get them something and I don't see anything wrong with that. That is something I do myself sometimes. My kids are considerate to everyone not just me.

2 - Ds will ask me to have a friend over, sleep over, go shopping: I'll check with mum maybe shes got plans.
My D asked mum: should we not ask Dad before we move the beds for the sleep over. (I did have a brief talk with my Ds how it is good to check with both parents when we make plans and my SO(she did not see it that way) That question from my D was not well received.

This is something my SO brought up and that happened a year ago. My oldest did cried in the shop because when they were out buying something. I did say 'I thought we not buying anything' when they left home. She was concerned what I was going to say about them buying stuff. When she got home she was in tears. I gave her a hug and reassured her I'm not angry. My SO had a major issue with D crying in the shop and being so concerned about what I may say. I'm not sure what to make of that.
The problem I ran into here was before they left home my SO and I decided we not going to buy more unnecessary stuff? Immediately she changed her mind an told the kids they can buy stuff. That is when I said to everyone: I thought we not buying more stuff. I can't remember being aggressive in my approach as I'm aware to be careful.

Now if the Ds asks what about dad (permission or a treat) my SO have a problem with that. The messages I get from my SO are:(1) It is not just about your feelings, There is something wrong for the kids to consider dad when events are planned or buying a treat,
(2) I don't want them to grow up having to ask a man permission for things. I don't have to ask you for permission. Your parenting is faulty...My SO does undermine me and don't stick to agreements when it comes to parenting. Sometimes it swings to the opposite then I'm all good again...!

I'm probably doing fine in a tricky situation.

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[Harri]

Hi.  I am going to start by saying I do not have my own kids so take my comments with that in mind.  I am the adult daughter of a mentally ill mother though so that colors my perspective quite a bit.

It sounds to me like your daughter may be anxious about upsetting either you or your SO or something happening to set off a fight or argument.   It is not appropriate for her to try to manage situations so that there are not arguments between the adults.  I am guessing here that that is part of what is going on. 

I think kids trying to control, as in keep things calm and conflict free,  for the adults is fairly common with the family dynamic we talk about here.   Even if there is not our-right fighting, the tension and stress is very apparent, even to infants. 

I don't think asking to buy something for you or another family member so they don't feel left out is necessarily a bad thing.  In fact it is considerate and generous... if that is all that is motivating the gesture.  See what I mean? 

It becomes harder when asking mom if mom should consult with dad about moving a bed before doing so.  Your D is questioning another adult/parent.  My question is what has prompted this sort of behavior in this sort of situation? 

Picking up a treat for someone is not the same as asking for permission to do something and questioning one adult vs another.

[Radcliff]

It sounds like you and your SO are living together with the children?  How would you feel about, instead of the children having to check with both parents before making plans, they talk to whatever parent is present, and let the parents take the burden of coordinating?

RC

[Teno]

It sounds like you and your SO are living together with the children?  How would you feel about, instead of the children having to check with both parents before making plans, they talk to whatever parent is present, and let the parents take the burden of coordinating?
RC

Thanks RC, yes we live together. I'm happy with your suggestion and that is what my wife also had to say, but not as eloquently as you.  The same rules don't apply to her.

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It becomes harder when asking mom if mom should consult with dad about moving a bed before doing so.  Your D is questioning another adult/parent.  My question is what has prompted this sort of behaviour in this sort of situation? 

Picking up a treat for someone is not the same as asking for permission to do something and questioning one adult vs another.

Thanks Harri and what you are saying is all making sense.

I think this is probably where the dynamics are build around. I've a fair idea what has happened. A lot has originated from my MIL a upwBPD/NPD, parenting and how I played into it.

I'll go into more detail, but I would like to ask a question/opinion about mother/daughters dynamics. Would a mother daughter bond naturally be stronger than with a father(not abusive)? Am I likely to run into wall if mom undermines my parenting?

Thanks Teno

[Harri]

Would a mother daughter bond naturally be stronger than with a father(not abusive)?

Generally yes, the mother daughter bond is quite strong.  Even between my mother and I, it was quite strong, but very disordered. 

 

Am I likely to run into wall if mom undermines my parenting?

Possibly, maybe even probably. It really depends a lot on how much healthy unconditional love, acceptance, strong boundaries and validation your daughter gets.  As the non disordered parent you get the lions share of of responsibility for making sure she gets this from you and other healthy adults in her life.  School activities, teachers, clubs, social activities, team sports, etc can all help her get the stuff she needs to have a fighting chance.   Getting yourself healthy and learning the tools we offer here to help you interact with your wife *and* your kids will go a long way and you are on the right path.   

[Radcliff]

As a dad with a stbxBPDw and three daughters, I do think that you're up against a steep challenge with the children's mother undermining you.  Harri's advice is spot on.  Your most important job is to give them unconditional love; be a calm, stable source of love.  You'll need to maintain this over the long haul, even if they start to reflect back to you some of their mother's treatment of you.

I also agree with Harri that learning the tools here will help you do this.  Have you read about any of the coping tools on this site yet?  If so, did any jump out at you as being potentially helpful?

RC

[Teno]

It becomes harder when asking mom if mom should consult with dad about moving a bed before doing so.  Your D is questioning another adult/parent. My question is what has prompted this sort of behaviour in this sort of situation?

This is just a summary:

My oldest D recognises the unfair treatment towards me from mom. We went through a stage when mom sided with youngest D and I would support her. She is also aware to a point what my MIL is doing. She feels a loyalty towards me and I think it is also a way of her pushing back when she gets mistreated(put downs) - rebelling.

I also made mistakes: My SO shamed my oldest D (made her feel guilty) and I validated her feelings. I'm very careful not to invalidate or put mom in a bad light.
Out of this i realised all the fighting(tension between my SO and I)with my MIL my oldest D felt guilty for loving her grandmother and wants to be loyal to me. We had a talk about her feeling guilty and I apologised to her. - This is what happens when you try and control other people's behaviours! I've learned and grown a lot since then. I've reduced the tension dramatically.

My SO is in competition with me over the kids and feels insecure about her parenting. I've stepped out of this game for a while now already and it is hard not to get sucked back in again. I would say a lot stems from this dynamic as well.

[Teno]

As a dad with a stbxBPDw and three daughters, I do think that you're up against a steep challenge with the children's mother undermining you.  Harri's advice is spot on.  Your most important job is to give them unconditional love; be a calm, stable source of love.  You'll need to maintain this over the long haul, even if they start to reflect back to you some of their mother's treatment of you.

I also agree with Harri that learning the tools here will help you do this.  Have you read about any of the coping tools on this site yet?  If so, did any jump out at you as being potentially helpful?
RC

Thanks Harri and RC

I've read a fair bit since I've started here. The tools helped me look in the right direction.
My SO and MIL is high functioning, that is something that really caught me all the time. It took me a long time to catch on that a lot of the time it had nothing to do with me. Now I can see how I got caught into the Karpman drama triangle.

I've always been good at respecting others boundaries, but my own boundaries was/is lacking. Probably over trusting and naive when it came to being manipulated.

Stepping away from trying to control others behaviours made it much easier, but I'm making a point of not getting myself invalidated.

I'm bettering my parenting and validating skills for my children and wife. I try to keep our household calm and validate the kids. Doing some self care for my mental health

I find the loneliness the hardest and getting invalidated all the time.

[Notwendy]

From my own experience with a BPD mother, it isn't unusual to have some of the Karpman triangle dynamics play out with a child.

My BPD mother seemed to feel that there was some competition between the attention my father paid to me and to her. If he was going to buy me anything, even something not expensive, he had to check with her first. ( and he was the wage earner in the family).

If I seemed to be attentive to my father, that seemed to bother my mother.

As to your question- are children ( especially female ) closer to their mother than their father? I think this depends on the parents as well as the ages of the child. In many cases, mother is the primary caregiver for a small child, and for an infant, the source of food. I think in this case, children are more bonded to the mother at first, but not necessarily when they get older.

During the teen age years, a child wants to assert themselves as a separate individual. A teen girl may have more friction with their mother during this time as they try to differentiate themselves. In a normal loving situation, this is a temporary stage, although can be emotionally trying for mom.

In my situation, my BPD mother didn't do much caretaking. I don't think I had the same kind of bond with her as someone who did bond with a mother. Still, I craved that bond, like any child would but didn't get it. I was always more attached to my father who did act as a parent to me.

What you may be seeing in your kids is a bit of parentification. By my teen years I was enlisted as another emotional caretaker for my mother. The focus of the family was "mother's feelings" and I felt responsible for her feelings from a young age.  You may also have considerate and thoughtful kids, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think I had to be sensitive and considerate in my family. Where it goes too far is when it leads to people pleasing and co-dependency and I have had to work on that.

[Teno]

It becomes harder when asking mom if mom should consult with dad about moving a bed before doing so.  Your D is questioning another adult/parent.  My question is what has prompted this sort of behaviour in this sort of situation? 

Conflicting between what mom and dad says and maybe some emotional care taking.

My D9 notices the put downs and when I get left out. Things liked getting talked over at the dinner table, Items I bought for the Ds getting given away. I can be the outsider for a whole weekend.

At dinner I was talking about my day and my SO and D9 talked straight over me. I addressed it saying I've just been talked over. (I'm setting boundaries here) My D9 took notice and my SO just disregarded me.