Compassion vs Boundaries - can they co-exist?

[hotncold]

I'm not sure if I have been compassionate but I now am better able to see my uBPDmother's vulnerabilities, and it has allowed me to take a step back from the chaos and drama.

But I do wonder - in what way does cultivating compassion help?

Is compassion part of detaching? Why should we practice compassion? What does it do? I also have this question for those who are not in our lives everyday. What about people in the world who exhibit narcissistic traits and are very destructive? Should we have compassion for them? How does that help at all?

I am afraid that being compassionate will allow boundaries to fall. Does anyone have any insight on compassion vs detaching vs boundaries?  Can you be compassionate while upholding boundaries?

I wonder because for whatever reason, it seems that many people - including random strangers - seek out compassion from me. I am always afraid to give it because then I feel it is an invitation for them to break, push, stretch my boundaries. As a result though I am often on the defensive and yesterday I was confronted with a very serious situation that required compassion and I'm afraid I mishandled the situation. Not sure if I should be posting this here, but I feel as though, in retrospect, the situation demanded a lot of compassion, but I was afraid and panicked and I now realize that I had no reason to be afraid. Someone who was in very deep despair simply wanted to talk but I reacted by creating distance.

[spacecadet]

Hi Hotncold, interesting question. Compassion and boundaries... .

Compassion is in my mind a feeling and a characteristic behavior, like love. We can feel compassion and do nothing about it, or demonstrate it e.g. by listening to what someone's going through without judging, or reassuring someone who's struggling to feel lightening of their pain that they did the right thing or that you care how they're doing, etc. We don't always need to feel it (i.e. feeling another's pain) when we are demonstrating it to someone.

Boundaries are more like a behavioral habit but they arise out of feeling. When someone encroaches on my boundaries I feel angry or sometimes anxious/fearful which motivates me to push back. When I don't keep my own boundaries I might feel ashamed that I didn't protect myself.

And I agree with you, that keeping our boundaries firm can be an oppositional force to compassion. I might meet a friend for coffee and she needs to talk about something difficult she's going through, but after an hour I need to go start my work day, whereas she may want to talk another hour. So I give her a hug and good wishes and go. There's compassion and a boundary. Emotionally sophisticated people understand boundaries and we accept and even encourage them in those we care about.

You don't give details about the interaction with your mother, but try not to beat yourself up over a single instance of not giving the compassion she needed, there's a long and complicated history of back-and-forth between all of us and other moms, the more so when they have any PD or were unable for whatever reason to be there for us as we would have liked. Think about the one instance in context of a whole lot of others where you placed her needs above your own... .maybe you're trying to find balance. Appreciate your efforts and your growth.

[hotncold]

Hi Wisedup22,

Thanks for the message. THe interaction I had recently wasn't with anyone in my life with BPD, but I feel that my experience with pwBPD put me immediately on the defensive.

Essentially, a stranger in a public place asked to sit with me. I said no, that I was busy with something. He then told me he was going to take his life later, and wanted some company. I let him sit down, and watched as he struggled deeply. I didn't know what to say or do, so I decided that I needed to call for help. I told him to stay where he was while I went to call for help and when I came back he was gone. We searched all over for him, called the police, but never found him.

I think my previous experience with pwBPD caused me to immediately go into defensive mode and assume that he might be manipulative. It became clear that the man was extremely distressed, and not knowing what to do I went for help. BUT in retrospect, I probably should have just stayed and listened. This is where I feel like I was unable to be compassionate. All calls for help I tend to react to as manipulation. It is hard for me not to react to them like that. I wish I could not have such a knee jerk reaction to these situations.  There have been many times where my mother faked being hit by my father, or faked a serious injury in order to resolve a situation that was not going well for her. I saw it for what it was: manipulation. But now I seem to see manipulation when its not really there - and is simply a cry for help. I feel like my ability to feel compassion has been compromised because I spent so many years trying to enforce boundaries.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi hotncold,

It sounds to me like you made a wise decision to seek help with something that you felt unable to handle and that was a compassionate act in itself, by looking for support from someone better equipped to deal with a situation like that.  The alternative might have gone completely the other way, into territory that leaves you feeling depleted, emotionally triggered and helpless to resolve the situation for that individual.  Professionals are trained to help and support people who are feeling suicidal.  We're not.  Please don't beat yourself up over this.   

We place boundaries on ourselves for good reasons, in recognition of areas where we might encounter difficulties that can be avoided.  Would you say that allowing yourself to listen to this person's distress would have led you to become emotionally involved to the point that you were unable to detach from the situation at an appropriate time for yourself and know when to encourage this individual to seek professional help?  I ask because for myself I am acutely aware that that would be the case.  I'd like to think that I can achieve the capability to show compassion and listen without taking on the other person's problems and feeling the responsibility to help them to solve these.  My own boundaries are too weak and I recognise this as destructive to myself.  If we can allow ourselves to listen without taking on responsibility then perhaps we can slide those boundaries somewhat.

Are you having any therapy as support for yourself?  I'm on a waiting list and your post topic is something that I know I must work through myself as I tend to take on all the suffering in the world and that's not healthy for me.  I literally cannot watch the news as it's too much for me to bear.  It sounds to me like you know yourself well and are asking some good questions.  This is a great thread and I'm interested to see what the other responses bring to the table.

Love and light x     

[hotncold]

Harley Quinn,

Thanks for your message. You raise some really excellent points here which I hadn't really considered.

I tend to take on all the suffering in the world and that's not healthy for me.     

This is a tendency that I have as well although as I have been working on myself I have managed to reduce this. But I think I tend to empathize too much, to a point where it is no longer helpful for the other person or for myself, and when my BPDex told me about drug abuse, self harm and suicidal thoughts it threw me into an agonized panic. It was more than I could take on, and that is how I have dealt with other people's pain in the past - I soak it up like a sponge soaking up blood.

When the stranger sat next to me he said a few times that he knew exactly how he would kill himself, it was all planned out. I think those words caused me to recoil as I imagined him going a step further and describing to me in detail how he was planning to harm himself, and that thought was unbearable so I went for help because it was too much. I asked him his name, repeatedly, almost clinically and he refused - I was maybe too insistent on this. What I think I could have done is maybe tone down the recoil instinct, maybe offered to buy him a coffee, make a switch, ask him questions about himself. If anything, once he disappeared this information would have been helpful to locate him. So I feel as though I went for help a few minutes too early. I should have established some kind of rapport.

Your comments make me think of an analogy: a doctor does not "feel" a patient's pain and has to be detached from it in order to help a patient heal. Think for example of doctors who have to amputate without anaesthetic to save a person's life. The compassionate thing to do is to operate, and many doctors are able to do it, but I know I could never do it - I internalize other people's pain, I feel their pain but it means that I am less able to actually help them.

Is that compassion? Is that empathy? Is that a lack of boundaries? Is there any advantage to "feeling" someone's pain? Is there a way to stop that sponge-like reflex of sucking up other people's pain?

The words I said to this stranger were: "we need to call someone, we need to get help" as though I joined him in his pain, rather than remaining detached from it.

I have no idea what happened to him, if he went through with his plans or not and to be honest I am thinking about it - but more as what it is that I can learn from and trying not to beat myself up about it. I suppose I did the best that I could, not being trained in this kind of thing and being completely caught off guard. But again, perhaps people who are suffering see this "sponge-like" thing in me.

My BPDex unloaded so much on me I couldn't handle it. He has told me that the replacements know nothing of the things he said to me - heavy drug use, abandoning a friend who was overdosing, suicidal thoughts, self harm, orgies, etc - or at least he doesn't tell them when he first meets them, as he did with me.

I wish I could better handle these things because they seem to happen often and I feel that the sponge thing is making me unable to act in a way that can actually help, ie: stop the bleeding instead of soaking it up.

[Panda39]

I don't think that boundaries and compassion are necessarily mutually exclusive both can exist together.

We use boundaries with compassion when we teach our children to cross the street.  We love our children so we teach them how to cross the street safely (physical boundary... .the red "stop hand" sign or the cross walk - compassion... .concern for their safety)

Your pwBPD calls and rages at you on the phone because they are stressed about something.  You tell them you are sorry they are upset, that you would feel the same in that situation, but you can't continue the call with all the yelling and that you will hang up if it continues.  The yelling continues and you hang up.

There was compassion for the other person in the use of SET (Support, Empathy, Truth) and there was self-compassion by setting the boundary and hanging up.  It could also be possible that you are showing compassion to the other person by hanging up, because they must learn to cope with their feelings or they might have time to come up with their own solution to the problem.

So I think compassion and boundaries can happen together.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with keeping one's distance from a stranger either.  We are taught to be weary of strangers as children (as a woman too) so there is for most of us boundaries that go up when meeting someone new even when introduced by someone else we do know.  We check them out, observe their behaviors, we evaluate it takes time to get to know people... .to trust people.

That person threw you into an immediate dramatic situation, giving you no time to think or evaluate, to just react.  This person had no boundaries and was engulfing you in their drama and you reacted initially by trying to create a boundary when this person had none... .which to me is not an unusual response.  When you had a minute to get your thoughts together you did act with compassion and reached out for help for this person.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi hotncold,

My BPDex unloaded so much on me I couldn't handle it. He has told me that the replacements know nothing of the things he said to me - heavy drug use, abandoning a friend who was overdosing, suicidal thoughts, self harm, orgies, etc - or at least he doesn't tell them when he first meets them, as he did with me.

I wish I could better handle these things because they seem to happen often and I feel that the sponge thing is making me unable to act in a way that can actually help, ie: stop the bleeding instead of soaking it up.

This happened to me also.  My ex often said that he hadn't shared any of the things with anyone else that he did with me and was amazed at how easy it felt to deliver all of this information about extremely difficult stuff he'd experienced in his life.  I too seem to attract people (everywhere!) who are suffering in some way and feel drawn to my sponge aura... .Can totally relate to you on your desire to be better at letting go of others' pain.  Really like your analogy about the doctor too.  

It's got to be fate that I had another link open on my screen, which I'll share with you below.  Interestingly, after your reply I noticed a couple of related articles at the bottom of the page which you might also find interesting.  They both have hearts on the pictures, but I'm sure the titles will be a dead giveaway to you.

https://www.mindful.org/care-deeply-without-burning-out/

It's not information intensive, and the video is very short, however food for thought and touches upon what we're discussing here so I hope you find this interesting.  

Love and light x

[heartandwhole]

Hi hotncold,

Thanks for posting about this. I can relate to what you wrote. I, too, can be quite "spongey" when it comes to other people's stuff, and it's not unusual for friends to confide very difficult things to me. Sometimes it's great, other times, it feels a bit like they are "unloading" on me and going their merry way. 

In answer to your question, I absolutely think boundaries and compassion can coexist. In fact, I think we can look at boundaries as a way of being compassionate toward ourselves. I can fully understand why you didn't want a complete stranger sitting with you. And when he told you he was going to kill himself, that may have triggered a lot of your past experiences in which you felt you had to defend yourself. Makes a lot of sense to me. 

I hope you are extending compassion toward yourself about your reaction.    Saying "no" to someone else is sometimes a big fat "yes" to ourselves. My feeling is that we don't want to forget ourselves when we think about working to add more compassion to the world.

This incident showed you something valuable about yourself and your relationships. We don't know why the man went away—he may have changed his mind, may have found someone else to sit with him, may have taken a walk. You took action to alleviate the suffering you witnessed, and that is a very kind and compassionate thing you did. 

Have you been able to feel compassion toward yourself and what you've been through, hotncold?

heartandwhole

[hotncold]

Thanks Heartandwhole,

I think I have. I do tend to be hard on myself and I think I see myself this way because I always played the "harsh" parent role to my uBPDmom. But perhaps I am not so harsh as I think I am. I told a friend about the incident, and she reacted rather extremely and told me to change the subject she didn't want to hear about this. I was a little taken aback by this sudden reaction. She also didn't express any concern for me whatsoever. So I guess I can say I have more compassion than she does 

Some of my other friends actually expressed real compassion and a capacity to discuss the incident with me in a meaningful way which was really nice and helpful. So it was interesting for me to see these different reactions from people, and maybe be a little less harsh on how I myself reacted in the moment.

[takingandsending]

hotncold,

Thank you for this topic and your willingness to share a really difficult moment and your own self doubts about how you handled it. In buddhism, compassion is something that spontaneously arises with wisdom (or the ability to see things as they truly are).

Compassion is not necessarily trying to help someone resolve their difficulties - rather, it is the willingness to identify with the suffering they are experiencing and relate it to our own experience of suffering. And because it is most immediate and easiest to experience, it is taught to start with your own suffering in the development of compassion. Like many codependent, parentified children, I always found it easier (and more satisfying!) to start with the suffering of others than sit with my own suffering. But, I really do believe that our capacity to love others, to be compassionate to others, stems from our capacity to love ourselves, to be compassionate to ourselves.

Boundaries are an expression of self love, self compassion. We are identifying the things within ourselves that we value and hold to be true, core expressions of who we are. Protecting what we value and hold as a core expression of who we are is an act of self love.

Is it possible that having boundaries can actually expand our capacity to love others rather than retract it?

[hotncold]

Hi Takingandsending,

This thread is really helping me understand the difference between empathy, compassion and boundaries and how they work together.

The experience I mentioned with the friend who immediately shut down the conversation on the topic gave me food for thought. Essentially, she was overwhelmed by my simple mention of the episode, and immediately she reacted to protect herself from my speaking about this difficult experience.

It makes me think about another friend, who when I confided in her about the things that my BPDex told me (BPD, self harm, suicidal thoughts, drug use) she reacted with panic. Her reaction was really difficult for me because I needed support after having been unloaded on by BPDex, I didn't know who to go to for help, and instead of listening and providing some support she lashed out at me and screamed at me to dump him. I felt extremely ashamed and isolated when that happened and started having anxiety attacks.

In both these cases, the friends who I sought support from seem to have absorbed the pain, almost as thought it became their own. I wonder if this is a form of empathy - but a very primitive form, that has no boundaries? Overly empathetic people I think can get overwhelmed by other people's pain. When other people do this to me it makes me feel ashamed of myself for having brought these people down.

Compassion on the other hand as other posters have mentioned does have boundaries. Perhaps it is about seeing, hearing a person's pain, validating it, while also making sure we are not overwhelmed by it? That last part I guess requires boundaries, but I realize it is a difficult thing.

I agree self love and self compassion is really the best way for us to be able to practice it with others.