shame and guilt

[SlyQQ]

Shame

Shame is the feeling that one is defective or not enough. It is the belief that one is wrong. The underlying fear is being left behind, excluded, or abandoned. Unlike guilt, shame does not immediately feel better by acknowledging it. In fact acknowledging it can seem to confirm shame, and so denial and shame are rarely far apart. When shame is internalized, most actions in a relationship are driven in some way to avoid abandonment, or to speed up abandonment. The ongoing possibility of a relationship ending is almost intolerable.

Internalized shame is widely distributed in our culture. Control is the core defense against shame. With other elements present, shame is a strong contributor to coercive control, or primary aggression.

I have always thought BPD rarely feel true guilt over there actions ( because it associates blame with themselves and it is not part of there emotional vocabulary ) but have always knew there was a strong sense of shame I came across this which seems to epitomize this was wopndering if people tend to agree nwith this

[ShadowIntheNight]

At 46 my uBPDexgf could be scolded by her mother and reduced to tears. And tho I don't know for sure, it was her mother's words that led to hers and my demise. So she can easily be shamed by her mother at least. But she is also Catholic, so I know for a fact she feels guilt because regardless about what people may think, she does know the difference between right and wrong. It's just that she feels it doesn't matter if it gets in the way of what she wants.

I was even going to add unless it's illegal, but I have a memory now that even that doesn't matter. We were having lunch somewhere and she told me of how when she and her friends were teens they liked to steal drinking glasses from this particular eatery we were enjoying. She decided she was going to "take" one. I told her let's just buy it, it's probably like $4. She insisted she had to "take" it, that the restaurant expected them to be "taken." At that point we had been together almost 9 yrs. She had never exhibited THAT type of behavior ever. So apparently stealing didn't make her feel guilty. And I've never understood her behavior for that. Matter of fact, I'm going to try and remember to bring it up to my therapist this week.

[SlyQQ]

I think There is a difference between knowing what is regaded as right an wrong on an external level ( weighing the repercussions ) an an internal level ( guilt remorse wont do it again ) 

[HowCouldYou]

I agree with your comments on shame SLyQQ. I'll add that guilt can help prevent repeating bad or unhealthy behaviors in "healthy" people, but they don't seem to experience it, and feel shame instead. BPD shame is often "reduced" at least temporarily by acting out or in, in an addictive manner. Of course the addictive cycle is in play and shame is ultimately increased as a result.

Shadow, my wife is older than your's and still cries when her father is even slightly critical or invalidating of her.