Blindsided, I’m rather devastated at the moment.

[Jbm71]

Hi,

This is my first post, and suffice it to say I’m rather devastated at the moment.

My bpd partner of 14 years woke me up this morning with a phone call informing me that she had taken an apartment and moved our 3 boys out this morning while I was sleeping.

Needless to say I feel lost, terrified, and completely alone.

Life with my partner has never been easy. As with many people with bpd she has a knack for making people feel insecure, and problems arose that I never had to deal with in my previous marriage; jealousy, neglect, instability, etc. Yes, we were both married when we met and what started as an emotional affair between us eventually became physical and led to the dissolution of my marriage. I personally feel a tremendous amount of guilt the way I left that relationship, but I was completely swept up in this new relationship and now realizing just how codependent I am I could not resist taking care of this woman who seemed like she needed me so much. For her part, at the time,  she was embroiled in multiple physical affairs and many emotional entanglements, and her attention seeking was completely out of control. I can also see just how emotionally abusive she was to her husband at the time, and just how confused he must’ve been. But after a messy adjustment period she managed to remove those relationships and focus her attention on us.

14 years and 3 kids later she’s been pushing me away for a very long time. There have been moments when she’s pulled me back in like when her father was dealing with a terminal illness, but now that we’re on the other side of his death, I just don’t seem to matter very much, and that hurts more than I could possibly say.

She has been in dbt for the better part of a year and has done a good job mitigating her anger and self harm, but she still dredges up old, toxic, relationships, and her attention seeking has gone back to the times when I first met her. There has been no intimacy whatsoever for over 4 months, and for my part I’ve tried to be somewhat emotionally reserved and play it cool - as some sort of self defense over feeling constantly rejected - in hindsight this was probably a bad decision.

I will say that this has happened before 7 years ago and we remained separated with very little contact for 3 months, but we managed to put things back together, but she wasn’t involved with anyone else the way she is now.

Anyway, that’s the short of it. I’m going to go to work now and try to put on a brave face when I all I want to do is put my family back together again.

Thanks for reading.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Harri]

Hi and welcome.

I am so sorry.  This is gut wrenching to read about never mind be on the receiving end of it.     It is good that you are reaching out for support.  We understand and as you settle in here and read you will see that you are not alone.  I know that is of little comfort right now though.

Other than here, what sort of support do you have?  I ask because a support network is important and many of our members become very isolated when in their relationships.

Keep sharing and talking with us.

Again,

[Jbm71]

Thank you!

I do feel completely isolated and totally alone. I had a brutal night at work and I kept repeatedly texting her and when I came home I composed a very long email about the environment of invalidation I created out of my crippling anxiety, and my desire to work on that.

Suffice it to say I’ve barely slept. I’m going to meet some friends later today who have no idea what’s going on. I’ll let them in and I’m sure they’ll provide some comfort. I feel like I do need to find a professional to talk to, but money is now definitely an issue.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again!

[Jbm71]

Ps. I realize I’m being super needy with her right now and I’m not sure that’s a good thing. Should I give her some space or keep up the declarations of love?

[Meridius]

Ps. I realize I’m being super needy with her right now and I’m not sure that’s a good thing. Should I give her some space or keep up the declarations of love?

Hey JBM71,

That's a horrible situation to be in.  You've come to the right place. 

I agree with Harri about getting support for yourself.  People to talk to.  People who can listen, face to face.  In addition to the support and resources here.

As far as the constant texting, put yourself in her shoes.  If you had snuck out of the house to secretly leave her, how would repeated texting from her occur to you?

And even if she texts back.  Then my advice is from the world of fishing.  When you're deep sea fishing for marlin, and you get a bite, the first thing to do is "let the line run out".  Patience.  Then tug just a little, then let it run out again.  Patience.

Keep talking to your support network.  Keep working on yourself.

[Harri]

I realize I’m being super needy with her right now and I’m not sure that’s a good thing. Should I give her some space or keep up the declarations of love?

It is not a good thing, but we get it and so many of us have reached out in the way you describe.     It's okay.  You can change the way you respond.  Just hold off on sending more messages.  Post here first and wait, we can help talk you through deciding.  If you don't get an answer right away, read other peoples threads and even jump in and post, that will help focus you and help you manage your own anxiety. 

pwBPD (people with BPD) often have fear of engulfment and/or abandonment and they often work in tandem.  Push too hard when they are pulling away if not a good thing and often drives them further away.   I really like what Meridius says about patience.

Meridius is correct that you should work on you.  It is all you can do really. 

What do you think drove you to text her what you did?

[Jbm71]

We have three kids together, 9 years of age and under, so we have to maintain some level of contact.

I’ve been trying to keep the messages short, supportive, and loving, but not falling to pieces - which is really exactly how I feel.

I told her I want to talk this through with her but I’ll wait until she’s ready and that it will be judgment free and filled with love.
In short, I have no clue what I’m doing...

Thanks for all the support though, you’re all helping more than you can know.

[Jbm71]

Thank you so much, KHib!

Your posts have been more helpful than you could possibly know.

I am trying to practice self care, and not dwell on apocalyptic future scenarios, but that is easier said than done.

And for what it’s worth I do think my own issues definitely played a large part in this current break. My wife has dealt with the death of her father, creative disappointments, depression, and changes to her medication, and instead of feeling empathy and offering support I resorted to behaving the way I did as a child suffering through my own trauma - I became sullen and withdrew physically in a completely dishonest way. I wanted to be physical and loving more than anything, but didn’t communicate that at all, and projected my own feelings of rejection on to her.

It’s funny how my wife has mentioned wanting to be our “authentic selves”, and I can tell she doesn’t fully trust the sweetness that’s been pouring from me over the past two weeks, but little does she know that this is my authentic self. I want nothing more than to be close, loving, and supportive.

One other thing I would like to mention is an observation I’ve made over the last few months; my wife is a writer, and a very good writer with meticulous grammar, and we text a lot. From what I can tell at the outset of this current split her texting, and specifically the use of grammar, and formatting became very haphazard. Whereas before they were always perfectly composed they were now littered with floating commas, extra spaces, and just generally poor syntax. I took this to mean she just doesn’t care about texting you anymore and I responded with my own purposively wonky texts (horrible idea, I know), but lately now that communication is flowing a bit better her texts to me are starting to resemble the pre split variety. I may be reading way too much into this but I’ve definitely thought of this as a move in the right direction.

Anyway, tonight we will all have dinner together and hopefully I will not fall to pieces, and I will absolutely try to heed your advice, and try not to push.

Thanks again!

[Rev]

Thank you!

I do feel completely isolated and totally alone. I had a brutal night at work and I kept repeatedly texting her and when I came home I composed a very long email about the environment of invalidation I created out of my crippling anxiety, and my desire to work on that.

Suffice it to say I’ve barely slept. I’m going to meet some friends later today who have no idea what’s going on. I’ll let them in and I’m sure they’ll provide some comfort. I feel like I do need to find a professional to talk to, but money is now definitely an issue.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again!

Hi - If money is an issue - then a support group might still bring you some of what you need in terms of shoring things up emotionally. It doesn't get you where you say you want to be in its entirety, but by my estimation, it's a good place to start.

And, even if you are not a religious person, a progressive clergy person might be available to listen to you from time to time.  The idea of spiritual direction is to just get the emotional sea-sickness (as I like to call it) to pass.

You have lots of other great advice here, so that's my only two cents for now.

Otherwise, my heart really aches for you. How shocking - and along with the advice, please do not think you are being needy. Men - the idea that we should "man up" - it's such a real thing. I'm completing a master's thesis on domestic abuse. This is not your fault. At the very most, you are only partially responsible. One of the sure signs of abusive  dynamics is to use the kids as leverage and place blame on the other partner.

Lots and lots of love headed your way from here.  You got courage like nobody's business to be able to reach out like you are.

Rev

[Jbm71]

Thanks so much for your thoughts and support. I really appreciate it.

It’s definitely a quagmire I’m finding it very difficult to navigate. I want desperately to bring us all back together under the same roof, but right now my wife, I believe, doesn’t trust me to support her emotional health, and finds my many moods dysregulating.

So, I’m trying to work on that, and at the same time be patient in waiting for her to turn back towards me.

[juju2]

Hi.  Hang in there.

Deep waters.

In my experience from the last 3 years being separated from udxbpd boyfriend, we lived together 10 yrs, I had a melt down.  Asked him for space.   

He ran and I chased him and wooed him w trips, money, you name it for 10 months.  How sorry I was, an emotional w r e c k!

All of that emotional mess, extreme cow tow, all made him more bpd ish.  He became much worse in all the key markers...  Suffice to say, everything got worse, not better.

Listen to the everyday heroes here. If you possibly can...doing nothing is way better than doing the wrong thing! In this realm.

As much as it may not ring true.  Otherwise, you could be in my shoes.


I made it worse with my neediness, lack of boundaries, no- respect- for -myself behavior.

I do not know if our relationship will ever get back...

He is worse.

[khibomsis]

Dear JBM71, am moving my response to this thread. A conversation is always better than a dialogue 

Well done for taking responsibility for your part in it! That said, I find pwBPD do what they do because of internal dynamics, we can make it better or worse through our actions but the driving force of instability is within them. As they strive for healing we can help or hinder, mostly we have to accept that we have no control over the process. 

For you too Amback, there is a fine line between taking responsibility and beating up on ourselves. I think we can act to reduce stress levels, we can make sure that we take care of our own emotional needs and build support networks that help us do that, but mainly the advice to be clear, consistent and cautious is for us.   It rarely helps and we end up losing self-respect in the process.

JBM, would you like to talk more about triangulations? You have said very little about it. We are here to listen. 

Looking forward to hearing how the dinner went!

 
Khib

 

[Jbm71]

Hi,

So, yes triangulations have existed in our relationship from the very beginning. When I first met my wife she would tell me all sorts of terrible stories about how cheap, and jealous her husband at the time was, and generally held him in low regard. I  took what she told me at face value and I also didn’t hold any regard for him. In hindsight I can see it was a type of triangulation; he was jealous because she was having affairs, and the finances were the only thing he could actually control. I can see now just how confused he was and I often think about him and how he must’ve felt all those years ago.

And triangulations continue to exist in our sphere; my SO seems to be attracted to “know it all” types, and my wife adopts a very meek, docile, damsel-in-distress type posture, and presses these people for help and guidance even in matters that she herself is infinitely more sophisticated, and more often than not as with her ex the problem she seeks help with most is me.  I can almost feel the shift of these people starting to hate me, and these people very much factor in our current situation as I think these relationships exert tremendous external pressure to keep up the victim/savior dynamic.

As for the dinner it went really well. I watched the kids for the entire afternoon and then made a nice dinner. She loved the meal, and we talked, nothing really heavy about our relationship but about her job (something I was previously reluctant to talk about) and her current art projects (I was also reluctant to talk about this). I felt like I did a good job of empathetically listening and didn’t make any judgments, and we snuggled on the couch. I then walked them back to the apartment they’re staying at and my middle son, my biggest little advocate, started crying over wanting to be back with me and I couldn’t stop my own tears from flowing. I made a bit of hasty retreat before I fell to pieces.  She would later text to check in on me and my sense was she was dysregulated so I acknowledged it’s always hard to say goodbye but harder still when our son was upset but that I was ok. Throughout all of this she keeps asking if I’m ok, and I’m not entirely sure what answer she’s looking for.

Last night I worked (I’m a bartender) and she went out with her friends, and suffice it to say I was a mess of anxiety and desperation. I had all these thoughts that she was actually on a date and when I didn’t hear from her when I assumed I would I had myself all tied up in knots checking my phone every 5 minutes. She eventually texted to tell me she had been back for a while but fell asleep herself while trying to get the kids to sleep. She said she hoped she didn’t worry me (worry would be an understatement). I resisted the urge to text her all throughout the evening and only did when I got home and I acknowledged that I was a tad worried but figured that’s what had happened. I’m not sure what any of this means I feel like she’s testing some boundaries to see how I will react, and my logical mind is telling me she’s trying to adjust the enmeshment out of this toxic codependency, but my reactive mind is saying she’s just waiting till you’re truly “ok” to completely demolish me.

I wonder what is the best tact to take in regard to communication. Texting has always been a huge part of how we communicate and outside of her I’m not really a huge texter, but she likes to reach out wherever and whenever and know that you’re there. She has definitely changed the way she communicates through texting with me though,  and I have more or less followed suit but my texts are a bit warmer and gushier. I’m not sure if I should continue to be more distant with our texts like she is or continue to be, at least what I think to be, reassuring. One thing I know for sure is she loves when I tell her my phone is right beside me with volume on full blast if she needs me.

As always thanks so much for everyone’s input. I think about the advice here every day and try my best to implement it. It’s been SO helpful! Thanks again!

Also I just stumbled upon The Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional families, and suffice it to say I see a lot of myself in what they talk about. I’m going to explore a little further.

[Rev]

I wonder what is the best tact to take in regard to communication. Texting has always been a huge part of how we communicate and outside of her I’m not really a huge texter, but she likes to reach out wherever and whenever and know that you’re there. She has definitely changed the way she communicates through texting with me though,  and I have more or less followed suit but my texts are a bit warmer and gushier. I’m not sure if I should continue to be more distant with our texts like she is or continue to be, at least what I think to be, reassuring. One thing I know for sure is she loves when I tell her my phone is right beside me with volume on full blast if she needs me.

As always thanks so much for everyone’s input. I think about the advice here every day and try my best to implement it. It’s been SO helpful! Thanks again!

Also I just stumbled upon The Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional families, and suffice it to say I see a lot of myself in what they talk about. I’m going to explore a little further.

Hello again my friend...

I so feel for you - your sense of empathy comes through in spades - your writing really shows how you are seeing how the whole thing is put together. And it happens on many levels. 

You are asking for advice about communication - my counsel to anybody in a divorce situation - regardless of the reasons is e-mail - e-mail- e-mail.   There are couple of reasons - one is that it creates a record that is far better than text. Two - it is less immediate and you can schedule your time to answer. On that note - less is always more in these situations. One piece of advice that I followed for myself was - stay factual - use no more than six words per sentence - zero emotion.

There is the piece about your children and the tensions at home - this too is regardless of you're partner's condition - and I would suggest you get some coaching about this - like from a social worker.

And I want to say thank you to you too - for your honesty - this was a really tough week for me - I served my ex with papers this week and I have a cease and desist in place. Just crappy feelings of failure all around. Fighting idealizations that that I should feel humiliated by her (because she tried to humiliate me publicly). I too have similar al-anon traits (although my parents were not alcoholics - there were other issues)

Think my next step is to look at those too.   

Blessings on your day.

Rev

[khibomsis]

Dear Rev, I feel for you in the pain you are going through. I think your advice is excellent were this a divorce. But this is the bettering board and we are trying to bring couples back together. It is up to JBM71, of course, but I would advise to let the wife lead where communication is concerned, if she is comfortable texting then gratitude that she is communicating is all I feel.

JBM71, I know it is hard to be in your position. It is rough on your middle son, but at least you know there is a steady advocate there for 're-unification'.  

Remaining patient during triangulation can be the hardest thing. When you get a chance do read bigbear007's posts on this site. He gives a stunning insight what it is like inside a pwBPD's mind during dysregulation. I find it very helpful in considering my responses. Effective communication has to connect with what is going on inside them, and they feel what they feel, not what we would want them to feel. If you see what I mean?

This is a great place to start reading further about triangulation: https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

I am still working on action 1:
"Assert rather than persecute. Instead of the actions of the persecutor,  who blames and punishes - give up trying to force or manipulate others to do what you want. Take on the new behaviors of "doing " and "asserting ". Ask for what you want. Say no for what you don't want. Give constructive feedback. Initiate negotiations. Take positive action."

and it has already calmed my world   I find that it starves the triangle of energy which removes the destructive effects from my life. Bliss..

It is easier to act with compassion because long talks with my beloved pwBPD have made me aware of a lifetime of discrimination for something they cannot help. I mean, nobody chooses BPD. I often wonder if triangulation is part of the disease profile really, or if it is simply a survival response and a way to get by in a hostile world. In which case actually, triangulation would yield easier to correct action than many other aspects of the disease.  

So happy to hear about the dinner, hugs and conversation! You are making steady progress.

Adult Children is a great idea. I know it will make the difference for you that CODA is doing for me  
 
Khib

[ArtistGuy70]

Something like that happened to me when I was at work (going back almost 20 years now). Surround yourself with family and friends. Try to stay positive. It will get better, I promise.

[Jbm71]

Hi,

Thanks again for all the support. I’ve honestly gleaned a lot of strength and wealth of knowledge from you all.

Khib, I read Bigbear007’s posts and they really are insightful. I’ve been posting on the BPD subreddit to try and get some perspective from people with the disorder, but the results are decidedly a mixed bag. Bigbear007 seems to have a unique vantage point from his point of recovery.

It’s becoming more and more clear to me that I have to give her some more space to let her come around. I was telling a friend last night about the split we had seven years ago, and wondering about what the difference was... Following that split we didn’t talk for a month, and when we finally did she was furious, and when we finally got together things were awkward and heavy, but then slowly but surely we put things back together again. I think the difference was me; for whatever reason I wasn’t nearly as threatened then as I am now. It may have been how the splits occurred as the first came predictably after a big argument, and this one came about in complete stealth mode, but a split is a split after all, and for whatever reason this time I’ve fallen to pieces in ways I did not then.

I think I need to focus more on myself, but honestly that seems impossible to me at the moment; I start having panic attacks when I think I may not hear from her by the end of a night, and no matter how late I fall asleep I wake first thing in the morning and fidget until she reaches out to me (it happened this morning). I am completely and utterly at her disposal. I’m constantly looking to her for reassurance that we’re doing better and working towards reconciliation. As I read in one of Bigbear007’s posts I think this is having the opposite effect and is actually pushing her away. I need to be strong and independent, the way I was then, and not needy and mopey the way I am now. I remember when we finally got together after our initial split she told me she thought I did so much better without her, and this really did seem to challenge her.

One of the main differences this time as opposed to the last is the extent of the triangulation. This time she has built a large network of support, many of these relationships being triangulations of one sort or another, and I think the external pressure to maintain these relationships is going to be a difficult bridge to cross. Like you Khib, I’m coming to accept that these relationships are part and parcel with loving someone with BPD and they virtually all have a shelf life, but how do I effectively communicate what is best for our family rather than what is best for feeding that dynamic?

As for my middle son, I call him my biggest little advocate and he has been so sweet and empathetic towards me. Just thinking about him gets me all misty, and I know he’s fighting for me.

Thanks again everyone! Today feels as though it’s going to be a low contact day, and I’m going to need all the support I can get. I’m going to my first ACoA meeting, and I’m hoping it starts helping me along the road of putting myself first.

[Rev]

Dear Rev, I feel for you in the pain you are going through. I think your advice is excellent were this a divorce. But this is the bettering board and we are trying to bring couples back together. It is up to JBM71, of course, but I would advise to let the wife lead where communication is concerned, if she is comfortable texting then gratitude that she is communicating is all I feel.

Ooops!  Somehow I missed the board designation. Thanks for the correction.

Yes = in this case since it is about reversing a break-up, then gratitude is certainly an important part.

Rev

[once removed]

I need to be strong and independent, the way I was then, and not needy and mopey the way I am now.

this is important.

not just for attracting her, but just for surviving and coping.

ive been the king of overpursuing and wearing my heart on my sleeve in my life. it just drives you crazy.

its a really anxiety inducing situation, waking up to a call that your wife of 14 years has left with the kids, and you do sound highly anxious. getting back to that strong and independent guy is no mere matter of will power.

others have mentioned seeking further support, and the first thing i would do is schedule with a doctor and see about a meds evaluation. if you dont want to go the meds route, there are a slew of supplements that can seriously help, really helped me cope and also not act, when i went through my breakup.

[Jbm71]

Thanks!

Since the separation I’ve been doing my best to be proactive. I had my first CBT session today and it went well. I also attended my first Adult Children of Alcoholics meeting, and will get a referral to some sliding scale psychiatric services.

You’re right though, that I am EXTREMELY anxious! Right now I just desperately want to find a way to reverse course, but all signs point to this being a drawn out process.

My wife has agreed to couples counseling, and has at least told me that ultimately the goal would be reconciliation, but she asked that she research the counselor, and as of right now she hasn’t done anything (frustrating me beyond belief). She had said that this was such a huge decision, and took so much time and money that she can’t just immediately reverse course and turn around. I could respect that if I could believe it, but then again maybe she knows she’s emotionally not ready to start that process and is in essence protecting the relationship, but that old nag, ANXIETY, is telling me she just doesn’t want to.

I keep asking her “we’re on the same page, right?” and she answers “yes”, but refuses to promise anything, and then I ask “but the ultimate goal is reconciliation, right?” And then she answers “yes” again, and on and on it goes... I keep pushing for some sort of affirmation,  and she says she wants to “work through this, and not bury it”, and that we both have work to do. I keep telling myself that I’ll ask one last time and then I’ll stop, but then the anxiety creeps in and there I am again repeating the same line.

Yesterday was a very low contact day and it did seem to trigger some sort of emotion in her. I received a very furtive night text and then nothing till this morning. I read this article though from someone with BPD and how to communicate and they said not to pull away at all, but be present, reassuring, and of course, validating.

Here it is:
https://medium.com/@elisegordezky/6-ways-to-communicate-effectively-with-your-borderline-loved-ones-4c1b2eb7c32a

So, that’s what I’m trying to do. I’ll see her when she shows up to pick up the kids. I’ll probably walk them back and I will do my darnedest to avoid seeking my own reassurance.

One strange thing that I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around... we had a nice afternoon at the playground on Sunday. It went rightful till when I had to go to work which was convenient because I work across the street from the playground. So I’m at work when my phone blows up with “I took the kids to the local animal rescue and they’ve fallen in love with a cat. Is that ok with you?”. Now, I’m generally more of a dog person but I certainly don’t mind cats and I said sure, and I thought it was encouraging I was being included in the decision. I wanted to keep this going so I asked that she send me a picture and she said she would if she could get a good one... well, it’s been days now and still no picture, despite the kids asking me if I saw it because “mom got done good ones!”.

What do you think is up with that?

Thanks again everyone for indulging my anxiety riddled ramblings! I really do appreciate it!

[once removed]

I keep asking her “we’re on the same page, right?” and she answers “yes”, but refuses to promise anything, and then I ask “but the ultimate goal is reconciliation, right?” And then she answers “yes” again, and on and on it goes... I keep pushing for some sort of affirmation,  and she says she wants to “work through this, and not bury it”, and that we both have work to do. I keep telling myself that I’ll ask one last time and then I’ll stop, but then the anxiety creeps in and there I am again repeating the same line.

stop pushing. point blank.

the best thing you can read into this is that shes completely overwhelmed. the worst thing you can read into this is that shes completely overwhelmed.

dont overwhelm her.

for example, the fact that she insists on researching a counselor, but doesnt act, tells you this is just all too much for her to deal with. its hard for you, unimaginably hard, to wake up to what you did, and believe me we all get that, but its hard and overwhelming for the person who made that sort of drastic action as well.

she took a lot of time, thought, and effort to do what she did. shes having second thoughts, which is very ordinary in such circumstances.

Here it is:
https://medium.com/@elisegordezky/6-ways-to-communicate-effectively-with-your-borderline-loved-ones-4c1b2eb7c32a

dont overdo it.

number one, when youre learning how to communicate with a BPD loved one, it is very easy to fall into a place where you sound robotic, scripted, and trying too hard, and she will sense that.

number two, the advice wasnt written for someone in these circumstances. for example, sending scheduled messages of "i care about you" is going to feel forced, or obligatory, and she wont necessarily know what to do with it.

yes, you want your wife to know that you love her, and want to fight for your marriage, of course. good communication may involve learning some new techniques, but its still ultimately about sincerity and authenticity, and reading the situation and the person. 

[Jbm71]

Thanks Once Removed!

That’s great advice. This week I’ve done a good job of not pushing and pretty much letting her take the lead on communication, and taking things at her pace.

We actually just had a text exchange, and it started off pleasant enough; we made plans to meet up tomorrow, and and as is our standard sign off ended with “I love you”. Well, then she sent another text and didn’t end it with the “I love you”, so I just answered the same way, and this seemed to trigger her. She started texting “what’s wrong?” And seemed to get mad. I’m not sure it’s the right thing to do, but I assured her I loved her, and that’s where it was left. How would you suggest I handle a situation like that? Should I have reassured her? Or should I keep the “I love you”s going even when she doesn’t?

[once removed]

its hard to say. what was the context, the back and forth?

[Jbm71]

First part of the exchange was making plans for me to see the kids on Sunday and that was fine, and then she texted about getting our information together for our tax guy and that was the text that ended without the “I love you”, and I responded “”sure, I’ll get my info together” and that kicked off “how are you doing”, “”did something about that bother you”, and then a long somewhat hostile text about how we do our taxes - which I definitely already knew... so I reassured her I loved her and than several hours of silence.

So odd, I’m just trying to follow her lead and not push and I just can’t seem to win for losing.

[once removed]

well, it sounds like you both want reassurance, and are reading into each other. understandable.

one area where i would be careful, and is tricky to navigate: her fears are probably in overdrive, and shes looking for soothing.

shes taken some drastic steps, so soothing her about that could just simply make her more comfortable with the circumstances...she kinda gets to have her cake and eat it too, that kinda thing. you dont want to encourage that. obviously, you dont want to send the opposite message, that youre cool with all this, peace.

its a general comment im making, but let her self soothe, and dont fix this for her, but at the same time be consistent and clear about your desire to put your family back together. shes looking for strength and direction from you, which she lacks herself, and at a time when, i know, its the hardest thing in the world to do.

[Jbm71]

Thanks Once!

This is some great advice. I think you’re spot on in your assessment, and as much as a tightrope walk that it is, I’m going to try and put it into practice.

I think she is definitely confused and overwhelmed. When I think back on the weeks leading up to the separation there were so many mixed messages - we were literally making plans for the near and far future; plans she certainly didn’t need to discuss with me.

She’s recently been talking about, as well as expressing in her art, having two sides to her personality; not distinct identities but two sides seemingly seeking two divergent goals. The current one wants to draw depressing pictures and spends hours a day on Instagram and has little interest in being a wife. The challenge to me is to be present, patient, and consistent and wait for the other side to come back into play.

[Rev]

The challenge to me is to be present, patient, and consistent and wait for the other side to come back into play.

I know a man who one day, out of the blue, his wife came home, had a total meltdown an kicked him an pretty much everything and everybody close to her out of the house. He moved into a basement apartment and went no contact for a year. One day, she miraculously reappeared. That was thirty years ago.

Her she suffers from depression and he is extremely calm. She's his second wife. She's his third. He just realized that circumstances outside his marriage needed to settle and that she was incapable of processing everything she needed.

In their case, space was what she needed. He said it was excruciating to wait. But his sense of patience and faith sustained him. Time did it's thing. I met them when she was spiralling down for the second time, but by then they were older and had grown as a couple in a healthy way. We remain friends today and they have supported me through a break-up helping me understand why I was making choices that were so bad for me without blaming the other person.

Hang in there. The truth will surface. It will set you free if you let it.  I applaud your fortitude.

Rev

[Jbm71]

Thanks Rev,

That’s a great story. And totally relevant as I feel this current spiral has a lot to do with her depression. Her father died in august, and I feel once the commotion of that died down the focus turned towards me.

I’m really concerned about her well being, but I’m resisting the urge to come to her rescue, and honestly nobody is asking... Her moods seem to drastically change from one day to the next, from one hour to the next, and despite her claims to want to “focus on the kids”, she spends hours, and I mean hours on Instagram, and the kids, from what I understand, are having an unprecedented amount of screen time - which is such a stark contrast to her parenting over the first 8 years.

For me personally it’s been so hard to not have that partner to turn to about all the ups and downs of day-to-day life. She used to tell me everything, and I her, and together we would try to make sense of it all. And to have it completely change, literally, from one day to the next, is a bitter pill to swallow. I’ve been relegated to the most basic, and banal, information about the kids...

Still I’m hopeful, and I’m hanging in there. I’m getting more comfortable spending time alone, and I’m definitely getting more stuff done. I’ve also been doing a good job of not pushing, and although I’m way too prone to reading into things, I think, some of the ice might be at least beginning to thaw...  at least I hope so anyway.

 

[khibomsis]

Dear JBM, I think you are doing great! The self care and the support systems you put into operation really seem to be working. Well done for not burdening your wife with your anxieties. It took superhuman effort I am sure. On these boards one meets heroes walking every day 

How are the dysregulations going? Apart from the minor wobble the other day have there been any major outbursts? That is always my tool for measuring how well I am doing. No matter what happens I ask myself "Is she raging?" and if the answer is no, I feel I am doing well.  I don't want to encourage an over-focus on my pwBDD while I have all this work I should be doing on myself. Only that as your wife self-soothes herself back to baseline you two will be able to deal with other issues.

Advice I often give and rarely take is enjoy the peace while you can. It is the gift of hard times.

 
Khib

[Jbm71]

Thanks Khib! As always your thoughtful posts help put things in perspective.

My pwBPD continues to be highly dysregulated, but also continues to not want to discuss anything significant with me. I’m becoming increasingly convinced that there’s a relationship at the center of this and a lot of what I’m picking up on is the shame and guilt she’s experiencing. I also feel like nothing really significant will be discussed until either the relationship plays out, or whoever it is  disappoints her in some way. I’m increasingly starting to accept this, and not fight it. I could probably confirm this very easily by checking phone records l, but I’m not going to torture myself and go there. The “who” of it all is just not that important to me.

So, I’m trying to provide a consistent, safe, presence and when she does decide to talk I’ll do my best to listen empathetically and free of judgment. It honestly feels a lot like the beginning of our relationship, and the above traits are what brought us together in the first place. At the same time I’m going to work on myself and try and put some stuff together to be excited about.

So, that’s where I am, I’m practicing some radical acceptance, and understanding that these extramarital relationships are entirely possible when communication breaks down.

Thanks again everyone! I’ve really appreciated all of your support!