Are communication problems really all our fault?

[real lady]

WHY IS IT that "communication" or the perceived lack or the mispractice of it, often blamed upon a NON BPD as "the reason" for difficulty in a relationship?I often see that "the communication problem" and BLAMING US for not "communicating clearly" or communicating without respect toward them is the sink hole excuse for all BPD behavior. It deflects from THEM having any responsibility and puts us on the defensive.

I have often heard my uBPDso say TO ME "YOU don't know how to communicate, you need to learn how to SPEAK ENGLISH". Well, we can see the absurdity of the total exaggeration in this statement.

As nons, we tend to evaluate ourselves and TRY to do all that we can to make our lives and relationship with our pwBPD better... . I  know that I communicate clearly, fairly, kindly, sensitively with encouragement and love. I have a college degree,write, speak and have been in public relations/marketing. I do NOT have a "communication problem"... .   HE on the other hand has NO friends and only a few "acquaintances" who keep in touch with him for his past work with them. He does not make attempts to talk to them and they rarely call.

Communication involves listening and I believe that a pwBPD HEARS what thoughts are generated in his/her mind and REACTS to them, rather than truly listening and responding normally to a SIMPLE statement.

• What are your thoughts?    



• Do you communicate clearly and are constantly being BLAMED for "communication problems" when you KNOW that it is due to a mentally ill p
  
  s seeming avoidance to have any simple discussion?  



• Have you gone with your pwBPD to counseling, sat through "communication therapy" and even followed the advice only to have your pwBPD still try to USE the problem "of your inability to communicate" to them properly as their EXCUSE for ranting and raving?  



• Have you been able to "hold your pwBPD's feet to the fire" to try to WORK OUT THE COMMUNICATION problem between you by having THEM taking SOME responsibility for THEIR own communication toward you?  

[atcrossroads]

Interesting question and concept.  Like you, I consider myself to be a very good communicator -- I am adept and communicate well verbally and am good listener/supporter -- and when I want to take the time to do so, I can write well. 

However, I ADMIT... .   with my husband (from whom I'm separated), I may have been considered a POOR communicator.  I often JADED before I knew what BPD was -- I would try to explain the same thing over and over in a million ways (relentlessly maybe) because I couldn't understand how he did not understand what I was saying.  Bad idea with BPD, obviously.

Eventually, I resorted to silent treatment.  Communication wasn't successful with my husband (this is before I knew any tools), so I would just withdraw and not talk -- to avoid conflict.

Also, during rages, I began to go either quiet or try validating ("I can understand why you are upset with ... .   ".  But, really, we had unraveled at that point, so I never was successful communicating with him.

"As nons, we tend to evaluate ourselves and TRY to do all that we can to make our lives and relationship with our pwBPD better... . I  know that I communicate clearly, fairly, kindly, sensitively with encouragement and love. I have a college degree,write, speak and have been in public relations/marketing. I do NOT have a "communication problem"... .   HE on the other hand has NO friends and only a few "acquaintances" who keep in touch with him for his past work with them. He does not make attempts to talk to them and they rarely call."

Your comments above pertain to me and my husband too.  I have lots of friends, am known as a good listener, etc.  I have lots of support.  Husband has barely any.  He is BPD (w/NPD traits) overlap, so he always tends to talk all about himself, "I, me, my" ad nauseum -- no one enjoys being around someone who is all about #1. 

So, no, I never was successful with communicating with my husband though I communicate well with others.  Frankly, I had enough and wised up.  I got tired trying.  I think someone who has spent years of actually using the tools has probably had more success.  After 10 years, I just got tired of being the one who ALWAYS had to put in the work (not to mention I was painted pitch black - that didn't provide much motivation to stay either).

[real lady]

However, I ADMIT... .   with my husband (from whom I'm separated), I may have been considered a POOR communicator.  I often JADED before I knew what BPD was -- I would try to explain the same thing over and over in a million ways (relentlessly maybe) because I couldn't understand how he did not understand what I was saying.  Bad idea with BPD, obviously.

I would say that you were STILL a good communicator; realizing we are living with BPD is like finding ourselves in a foreign country without learning the language first. We are NOT a bad communicator because we don't already know the language, but it is so much easier for us to NOT ASSUME that we are not understood and it is more obvious that we do not understand others until we learn their "language". I am sure that a pwBPD thinks that we are a "poor" human being even... .   projection. But I hear you; once we are aware of the discrepency in communication and understanding, we are then responsible for "our part".

Eventually, I resorted to silent treatment.  Communication wasn't successful with my husband (this is before I knew any tools), so I would just withdraw and not talk -- to avoid conflict.

That is where I am at. My uBPDso "starts a fight" even before saying "good morning"( which he doesn't say anymore).

Also, during rages, I began to go either quiet or try validating ("I can understand why you are upset with ... .   ".  But, really, we had unraveled at that point, so I never was successful communicating with him.

Our situations sound similar. I have been painted black even before I understood what it meant. I have tried, and was consistent in validating but I was not as consistent in "extinquishing" the abusive BPD behavior until the pat 6 months or so.

Your comments above pertain to me and my husband too.  I have lots of friends, am known as a good listener, etc.  I have lots of support.  Husband has barely any.  He is BPD (w/NPD traits) overlap, so he always tends to talk all about himself, "I, me, my" ad nauseum -- no one enjoys being around someone who is all about #1.

Yes, it does sound like we have been through very similar experiences... .   this "once wonderful man, intelligent and fun to be with" is a BORE to me now. His only "talk" is about his "gaming" and instead of yawning, I just say "really?" or "uh hu".

So, no, I never was successful with communicating with my husband though I communicate well with others.

Again, it is not that you were not successful, did he ever "try to teach you his language". I really think that we should not accept ALL the responsibility for the "communication" as they are responsible for their HALF. BPDs are not likely to see that "they need an interpreter" or acknowledge that when we say "we feel that they misunderstand us" that they can, with empathy, find out WHY we feel that way.

Frankly, I had enough and wised up.  I got tired trying.  I think someone who has spent years of actually using the tools has probably had more success.  

EXACTLY, it is WORSE than understanding a baby who cannot talk at all and providing for what they need. It is TIRING to try to "help a person help themselves" and they don't want to help themselves. I have had enough for many lifetimes. If I NEVER would have close contact with a person like this BPD again, I will consider myself greatly blessed.

After 10 years, I just got tired of being the one who ALWAYS had to put in the work (not to mention I was painted pitch black - that didn't provide much motivation to stay either).

EXACTLY... .   I have NO MOTIVATION to continue to "work hard on it". Limit contact and minimize dysregulations are my goals. I am focusing on me and "trying to talk to him" is no longer a top priority.

I am so sorry... .   atcrossroads... .   that you have experienced what I am still living. I would love to hear how separation occured, when, what is the path you are taking, have you moved farther away, do you have children, how you are doing in all of it... .   feel free to PM me... .     Thanks for taking time to read and respond and share. I appreciate it.

[sunrising]

I would try to explain the same thing over and over in a million ways (relentlessly maybe) because I couldn't understand how he did not understand what I was saying.  Bad idea with BPD, obviously.

Oh, how I can relate to this.  People have complimented me on my communication skills for a long time.  I would often say in conversations with my ex, "It seems like you're not understanding me.  Let's see if I can come up with a better way to say this".  I now understand that, particularly when she was highly emotional, I could have been speaking a language which doesn't exist.

I struggle with "was the bad communication our fault?".  I don't think there's a person on earth who couldn't get better at communicating, espcially when it comes to intimate relationships, but it seems to me that trying to communicate with someone who has a really hard time managing their emotions- to the extent that facts get disregarded or distorted- is going to be a serious challenge, even for someone with good/ great communication skills.  I never heard of BPD until after my r/s.  Sure, sometimes I read about validating, SET, time-outs, etc and wish I would have implemented them during the relationship to see how they'd have helped.  Then I think to myself: Is it realistic to think that I would/should have needed to develop a new communication style in order to have a semi-healthy relationship?  I mean, the communication style I have now seems generally fine with lots of people.  Don't get me wrong.  I think some of the communication strategies recommended for dealing with pwBPD are useful in any relationship, validation especially, but I don't think I'll ever be ready to resign to the fact that I will have to be using SET on a regular basis just to avoid raging, threats to leave me, etc.   For me, it's just not supposed to be that way. 

[Suzn]

This is a good question. Finding solutions to communication conflict is an excellent goal. 

this "once wonderful man, intelligent and fun to be with" is a BORE to me now. His only "talk" is about his "gaming" and instead of yawning, I just say "really?" or "uh hu".

There was a study done at UCLA that states that up to 93% of communication is non verbal or body language. If you truly feel this way, that he bores you, it will be hard to hide. We can unknowingly poster ourselves via our own emotions. Using empathy, or putting yourself in his shoes, how heard do you think he's feeling when he's getting answers such as "really?" or "uh hu" from you with a "bored" posture?

Communication is a skill. Sometimes saying nothing is a communications skill. Having more friends can mean many things, it is not "proof" of having good communication skills. Not saying this is your situation at all real lady, however just for example... .   it can indeed be a sign of someone who can't say no, or better said, a sign of poor boundaries. 

If one of your goals is to minimize dysregulation, starting with you is an excellent plan real lady. Have you seen this workshop?

How to stop circular arguments

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. 

[real lady]

[People have complimented me on my communication skills for a long time.  I would often say in conversations with my ex, "It seems like you're not understanding me.  Let's see if I can come up with a better way to say this".  I now understand that, particularly when she was highly emotional, I could have been speaking a language which doesn't exist.

Hi   sunrising... .   when I have said that same statement, he said that I was "disrespecting him" and that I was "calling him stupid" (and he has (185) about 45 IQ points above me!) When I said "I feel that I am not being understood... .   " and just go ahead and clarify it, I have gotten "mixed" responses... .   usually negative as well, my uBPDso is severely BPD.

I struggle with "was the bad communication our fault?".  I don't think there's a person on earth who couldn't get better at communicating, espcially when it comes to intimate relationships, but it seems to me that trying to communicate with someone who has a really hard time managing their emotions- to the extent that facts get disregarded or distorted- is going to be a serious challenge, even for someone with good/ great communication skills.

My point exactly; they couldn't get a better communicator if they paid for one but yet WE are the ones who are accused of "not speaking english".

Is it realistic to think that I would/should have needed to develop a new communication style in order to have a semi-healthy relationship?... .   For me, it's just not supposed to be that way.  

In the BPD world, I would say it is NEEDED FOR THEM but "should WE HAVE TO" do it. I doesn't seem fair. I AGREE... .

This is a good question. Finding solutions to communication conflict is an excellent goal.  

THAT is my question suzn... .   IS it REALLY a communication CONFLICT that we can "solve"... .   It seems to me that we can "only do what WE can do". I would love to wave a magic wand over my uBPDso and cure him of BPD... .   I am SURE that we would NEVER have another "communication conflict" because HE would be ABLE to hear and respond without having to fight his own emotional dysregulation. Sometimes I feel as others have mentioned, that he is "fighting with himself" and I feel like an innocent bystander.

how heard do you think he's feeling when he's getting answers such as "really?" or "uh hu" from you with a "bored" posture?

I would LIKE TO THINK that he is THINKING THAT WHAT HE IS SAYING IS BORING to me and that I HAVE shown interest WHEN he had TRIED to talk with me about meaningful things. But I get your point. I show that I am bored because I was rejected for the game. I don't like it. It has taken my love away from me.

Communication is a skill. Sometimes saying nothing is a communications skill.

That is what I am hoping to learn to change for him and the bit of relationship that we may still have.

Having more friends can mean many things, it is not "proof" of having good communication skills.

But do you think that it IS indicative that a person with many friends may have the social skills to foster healthy relationships?. A person has no friends for many reasons. I don't think he wants to "be bothered" by anyone. If he is a wonderful communicator, he is also covering it up very well... .   he has not shown it with me and with several others who were once close to him.

saying this is your situation at all real lady, however just for example... .   it can indeed be a sign of someone who can't say no, or better said, a sign of poor boundaries.  

HIS boundaries are non existent... .   he doesn't feel comfortable saying no... .   that is true.

If one of your goals is to minimize dysregulation, starting with you is an excellent plan real lady. Have you seen this workshop?How to stop circular arguments I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.  

In the article under "why do circular arguments happen":

Cause we feel trapped - either literally or emotionally. (how I feel now)

Cause we hope that we can get them to understand. (How I tried to help our communication before I fully understood BPD)

I am really TIRED and ANGRY at being "discounted, demeaned and disrespected" and TOLD what I am thinking and what my motives are for "making dinner" even... .   (long story) Yes, my NONVERBAL communication shows that I am PISSED OFF.

I AM able to let go and I do not suffer from codependency. I let him suffer the consequences to his own behavior and go on with my life. I am investing in my life not my life with him.

I have been able to stop it most of the time, decrease the rate and intensity of the acceleration of the dysregulation and have been able to walk away, hopefully showing him that I DO NOT LIKE IT and will not submit myself to his yelling, etc. I am CONSISTENT and that is why I think that I have LESS "problems" with him along with me NOT TRYING TO solve any "problems" with him. When I offer a suggestion, he actually "growls" at me as if I am telling him something that I don't think he was smart enough to think of himself.

Can we say a wounded SELF image? Abuse from his family did it. I am the ONLY ONE who has ever truly trusted and believed in him... .   no wonder, he has treated others nearly as badly as he has treated me. He has NO contact with him.

Thanks for asking the questions... .   keep them coming.

[OTH]

Obviously it isn't our fault entirely. They have serious issues with seeing us as a complete separate person with our own needs. This leads to a lot of problems. We can practice communication skills like SET and it can  make a difference with them but what about us? Don't we communicate to get our own needs met too? I haven't been in a relationship before where no matter how logically I stated my case I was still not heard. The result being the endless circular conversation that goes nowhere. What do you do when the person you are trying to reach just won't hear you? I hadn't even heard of radical acceptance until I came here.

[Suzn]

Cause we feel trapped - either literally or emotionally. (how I feel now)

I believe you real lady. This is a hard place to be and I hear your frustration. Let's talk about your very first question " Is a "communication problem" really ALL our fault?" This truly isn't about who's fault it is. It's more about who's better equipped. It's very difficult to reach any solutions when we are frustrated to this extent. It's good you are walking away when you get to this point. We can't control their behavior, as you know, we can only control ours. Is it possible to leave the "fault" behind?

I am investing in my life not my life with him.

Where do you see your relationship going?

[real lady]

We can practice communication skills like SET and it can  make a difference with them but what about us? Don't we communicate to get our own needs met too?

And, OTH, WE are the ones who recognize that it goes MUCH DEEPER than a superficial, easy to "fix" communication problem. We are communicating in "their language" but due to BPD, they are unable to see that WE have needs also.

I haven't been in a relationship before where no matter how logically I stated my case I was still not heard.

And to take it one step beyond that, it seems that my uBPDso replaces whatever we may say with their OWN internal "talk"... .   we are not only NOT HEARD, I think that we are "heard as saying things that we don't even say."

What do you do when the person you are trying to reach just won't hear you? I hadn't even heard of radical acceptance until I came here.

OTH, Radical Acceptance has changed my whole outlook... .   as well as how I feel about myself and how I choose to live my life in face of BPD of the man whom I have loved. I have stopped trying to "reach him". It feels to me that he "doesn't want to be reached" but may almost be expecting to "save him" but I cannot and will not.

[real lady]

Cause we feel trapped - either literally or emotionally. (how I feel now)

It's good you are walking away when you get to this point. We can't control their behavior, as you know, we can only control ours. Is it possible to leave the "fault" behind?

I see it much more as a RESPONSIBILITY issue like you said. We who KNOW the real issues are the ones who are more capable of "letting go" and walking away. Sometimes it boils down to that. I know that I have been accused of FAULT, total fault by my uBPDso at one time. As nons, we need to work through the issues that WE HAVE within ourselves and being blamed and accused for 100% of the fault in a "communication" problem with a non who is a "communicator" is absurd and should be realized.

Where do you see your relationship going?

I have seen OUR relationship go down the toilet. Really. Unless he COULD and WOULD commit to deep therapy and WANT to have a better life and relationship with me, I don't see our relationship going anywhere. There is NO kindness from him at all. When I am sad, I am accused of something. When I am happy, he tries to throw guilt upon me. He is severely ILL... .   *broken heart emoticon*

[real lady]

Our expectations play a big role, a person with the emotional maturity of a 4 yr old has a hard time not projecting, not taking things very personal and struggles to express themselves. With a lot of practice we can see the possibility of dysregulation approaching and work to head it off. And sometimes, it doesn't work. That's when holding true to our boundaries and knowing when to take a time out ourselves come into play.

Expectations is the word that I learned the depth of after learning catching the concept of radical acceptance. IF I have expectations, that my uBPDso will "talk normally" then I am setting myself up for disappointment. I cannot raise the bar on him or FOR him. He must do that himself. I think that one of the reasons why we struggle and WANT to have a "normal communication with them" is that maybe at one time, we DID have one and our pain in that loss is what drives us to "try to find it again". Maybe that is why we accept MORE responsibility, because we know what we are ABLE to communicate, learn the tools and then take on a "caretaker role"... .   then we realize that we have "lost the relationship" with them.

It is just a loss upon loss upon loss (and for me, I had a loss of both parents within 15 months plus I had a MILESTONE birthday (50). I feel that I have had MORE LOSS in the past two years that I have had in the span of my whole lifetime. I have ONLY MYSELF to cling to. I have learned to TRUST myself and CARE FOR myself, and this came more with detaching from a uBPDso who I realized is mentally and emotionally ILL.

[sunrising]

it seems that my uBPDso replaces whatever we may say with their OWN internal "talk"... .   we are not only NOT HEARD, I think that we are "heard as saying things that we don't even say!"

This describes a lot of what I experienced pretty well.  My exwBPD traits would commonly take something to mean exactly the OPPOSITE of what I was actually trying to say.  In her words, her "mind always goes to the worst case scenario".  When I was trying to make her feel more secure by professing my undying loyalty, etc, she would often twist my words 180 degrees to turn them into a deficiency in loyalty (which didn't exist).  I would often say to her, "There's only 1 person who knows me and doubts my loyalty and commitment to you, and it's you".  This phenomenon occurred in other areas, but fidelity and commitment were the most common.

On the other hand, if ever I expressed a concern about her commitment or fidelity (legitimate concern at times, especially relating to fidelity), this would immediately be taken as a sign that I was feeling less than 100% committed or that I was taking part in infidelity.  Gaslighting?... .  

Trying to communicate effectively during times like these was maddening for me.  The conversations would sometimes go on for hours, mostly with me JADEing and her presumably having a totally different doomsday scenario unfolding inside her head.  Sometimes I would realize, after lots of time had gone by, that we were EXACTLY where we started hours ago; maybe even in a worse place.  I had done nothing to convince her of my loyalty, etc and she seemed even less secure.  Knowing I was completely committed and loyal, yet still having the conversations go this way, was the most frustrating part of our relationship for me.  I imagine it was very frustrating for her as well.  I even referred to the conversations/ arguments as "circular", long before learning about the term "circular arguments"; certainly before learning the importance of removing oneself from them.  

I take comfort in the fact that I was completely loyal and committed and that I tried really hard to show her.  I guess I'm starting to learn that, in fact, I tried way too hard.  I knew communication was the answer, as I believe it is to most relationship challenges.  Looking back, this compelled me to over-communicate when I should have been validating, taking time-outs, etc.  I'm not convinced that even if I had "perfected" these types of communication skills it would have changed the ultimate outcome of the relationship.  However, I do think it would have helped protect me emotionally.  If I'd have learned to clearly and effectively communicate my honest feelings, and then left it at that whether they were accepted or not, I think I'd have been less inclined to "believe" the shortcomings of which I was accused and were projected onto me.  

sunrising

[Want2know]

bpdfamily.com. Life is what it is... .    

Real lady, you have a lot of contempt and resentment for this man and have vowed to cope by living under the same roof in a prolonged state of detachment.  This thread and many others does not indicate detachment, but rather high conflict.

A couple of questions... .  

1.  Is this state of affairs helping him?

2.  Is this state of affairs a healthy role model for your child?

3.  Is this a healthy life style choice for yourself?

There is a saying, get busy living or get busy dying.

There are many ways (building or dismantling) to get busy living in your situation.  Are you in one of them?

This is Personal Inventory... .   this is about you.

P.S.  Capital letters are about screaming - are you screaming in this thread?

[real lady]

bpdfamily.com. Life is what it is... .   Real lady, you have a lot of contempt and resentment for this man and have vowed to cope by living under the same roof in a prolonged state of detachment. This thread and many others does not indicate detachment, but rather high conflict.

Hi Want2know... .   I know that I have had to face the facts about my uBPDso's BPD. It was only a month after my mother died, did I realize that there was a problem that was far beyond my understanding at that point. I knew that some form of personality disorder was the key and I knew that I had to quickly "accept what is" but I had no idea that I was reuniting with a mentally ill person... .   no clue. I am hurt by the broken promises and yes, I admit some resentment for having to live with him for a year of telling me to "get the f out of his house"... .   it was so painful. After all of the pain and loss that I have experienced, I have accepted more loss with his illness but I don't feel that I despise him, I am facing the fact that he is mentally ill. It does not change the facts that I have made decisions based upon trusting him and that trust is gone, I am hurt, I am "at a loss for many things". I feel I have detached but I am "living in a high conflict" situation and have now way out of it.

Are you saying that I am wrong for detaching and staying with him when I have no way to leave at this time? I can only deal with my emotions and working on them... .  

A couple of questions... .  

1.  Is this state of affairs helping him?

Overall,  my son and I living with him is very good for him. He actually likes/loves my son (he has said so) and not only he, but the puppies we have had since a few months after my mom passed have a solid home. Helping him "heal from BPD"? Honestly, I do not know if living with him now is going to help him seek counseling but I know that once we leave, he will have no "need" to go to counseling, will live and possibly die a hermit and forego all the responsibilities that I have taken care of all this time. Does he see me as "helping him" on a daily basis? I think that he has painted me so black that he is "using my goodness and situation" and by remaining detached, it allows him to have what he needs and run and hide from his BPD without me always "on" him... .  

2.  Is this state of affairs a healthy role model for your child?

My son's father is very OCD (at least) and controlling and a very manipulative liar. My son is aware of this. He loves his father and he loves my uBPDso. Am I, while living with a person with BPD a "healthy role model" for him? Yes, I think that he sees daily, that we can be hurt by those we love, still respect and care for them but NOT like the way they treat us at times. He has learned about how to "not be abused" and how to differentiate between and "abuser" and a person with mental illness... .   He is affectionate, not nearly as much in the past 6 months as before, with my uBPDso and we talk about how my uBPDso "is hurting" and we are trying to do our best to not cause any pain intentionally for him. We love him and want to see him live life happily... .   with us, if he choses.

3.  Is this a healthy life style choice for yourself?

I don't think that being betrayed is healthy for anyone. A life style? I consider what I am doing as being on a "healing road"... .   I am not enjoying the daily dyregulation. I have had to change my direction in this relationship. One year ago, we went to a counselor and I knew that this would not be a lifestyle that I could continue for long. He has stopped the "get the f out of my house" so that is better.

There is a saying, get busy living or get busy dying.

Thanks for the advice. I am having to live with the man that I have loved all my life... .   my son instantly loved him. I am committed to him though he has broken vital promises that do create resentment that I have no resolve. I am very busy getting a resume together, in hopes of getting my son and I a new car, home and leave. I had given up everything so as far as taking personal inventory, I have been doing that while trying to heal from depression and loss of both parents over the past 18 months. It has been hard to "get back on my feet" but I started counseling last August and I am only "where I am at emotionally and mentally" today because of it. My uBPDso is severely mentally unhealthy. He has committed to couples counseling to discuss the "communication problem" that I have with him. I am "going with the flow" on this but do not really put any hope that it will reveal, break open or bring change in our relationship but I am willing to do whatever I can.

There are many ways (building or dismantling) to get busy living in your situation.  

Are you in one of them?

I'm sorry that I am unfamiliar with the definitions of these concepts on this site. In some ways I am building; my life with my son and trying to provide the support that my uBPDso needs. I am always looking for the good and positive things to make our lives better.

If dismantling means tearing down. I am not wanting to tear down anything but walls within my self that do not help my understanding and coping with his BPD.

This is Personal Inventory... .   this is about you.

I see that my thread was moved so I did not have this perspective but I will "work with it" now... .   I will be reading and educating myself on your process of taking personal inventory.

P.S.  Capital letters are about screaming - are you screaming in this thread?

I apologize for the caps; they are gone and will remain gone. I have felt that emphasis on key words has helped me to express myself more clearly. I certainly did not mean to yell at anyone... .   so sorry about that.

Again, I found this thread in the "personal inventory" board and had not had this perspective upon my situation. I am sure that it will be helpful to me. Thank you for realizing that I was focusing on "communication with a BPD" on the "leaving" board, where all my threads have been for the past 4 (?) months... .   Thank you for moving it. 

[Want2know]

I feel I have detached but I am "living in a high conflict" situation and have no way out of it.

I agree that you are living in a high conflict situation - both ways.  That's gotta be really hard.  

1.  Is this state of affairs helping him?

If you take a look at any of the books out there, ie. Kreger, Porr, Gunderson, Fruzetti, Aguire, they show what type of environment is most constructive.  He is not living in that.  Not only is that not constructive and painful for him - at some point it may build p to a point where he becomes flooded and just blows and that will be bad for everyone.

2.  Is this state of affairs a healthy role model for your child?

As the parents relationship imprints how a child will love - your son is learning his "normal" - a dysfunctional angry relationship replete with dysfunctional coping.  

3.  Is this a healthy life style choice for yourself?

You mention he has painted you black and you have painted him black, resenting him and your feeling stuck in your situation - as such you both are in a steady state of repressed anger and resentment.

Real lady, is it possible that you are a little blind to how dysfunctional things have become - and what role you now play in the continued conflict?  Or are things better than portrayed here and just over-expressed in your threads?  Is there a potential threatening volcano building up?

What do you think?

I just wanted to bring a balance to the reality of your situation, as it is easy to lose our bearing in these relationships and it helps to take inventory on the bigger picture.

[real lady]

1.  Is this state of affairs helping him?

If you take a look at any of the books out there, ie. Kreger, Porr, Gunderson, Fruzetti, Aguire, they show what type of environment is most constructive.  He is not living in that.  Not only is that not constructive and painful for him - at some point it may build p to a point where he becomes flooded and just blows and that will be bad for everyone.

Except for living alone, I don't think he has had a less provoking situation than the current one and it is a far better situation for seeking healing, enjoying life and being with persons who truly love him. In ways, he might never have had anything but an abusive "family life" in between the time we were together initially and then reunited recently. Yes, I can see that having "family" around all the time overwhelms him, it may be the reason why his waking hours are 3 p.m. - 6a.m. the next day. We don't see him for more than 7 hours on any given day.

2.  Is this state of affairs a healthy role model for your child?

As the parents relationship imprints how a child will love - your son is learning his "normal" - a dysfunctional angry relationship replete with dysfunctional coping.  

Well, I think that my son sees two people who truly love each other and want to be together but one is very sick and hurt and doesn't know how to cope as we have learned. He is angry. We are hurt and disappointed that it "turned out this way". Sometimes life events don't turn out as they "were promised" and so my son has learned to accept people as they are and not be so critical (and my uBPDso can be constantly) of others, especially those who are dealing with an illness or disability.

I think my son has learned some of the depth of love and the compassion that even adults lack at times. He knows that I have loved and do care for my uBPDso very much. My son and he have affection for one another and mutual interests and "get along well" as my uBPDso says.

3.  Is this a healthy life style choice for yourself?

You mention he has painted you black and you have painted him black, resenting him and your feeling stuck in your situation - as such you both are in a steady state of repressed anger and resentment.

I know that I was "painted black"... .   last Nov. 2011... . I don't know if I have been seen as "white" since then. Yes, I think that it is normal to have resentment over broken promises. I have not "painted him" in any way that I am aware of... .   I really do see him as he is now. Yes, I feel stuck and have told him so. Yes, I do not share my anger and resentment with him because of his BPD and my son. It is far from a healthy living situation but I didn't know that it would turn into a "BPD nightmare" when my "dream come true" had just been realized... .   I don't think that feeling hurt and resentful has made the situation worse, but enabled me to detach and be more objective about his needs and my son and my needs as well.

Real lady, is it possible that you are a little blind to how dysfunctional things have become - and what role you now play in the continued conflict?

 No, I don't think so. How do you consider that I am a "little blind" to how dysfunction things have become and what role that I now play in the continued conflict? I am still living with him. Something that I can do nothing about at this moment. Not by choice at this stage.

I have been becoming more "sighted" to "how dysfunctional things have become", in the past year and I have had to adapt, learn communication skills, withdrawal and cope with my own feelings about such betrayal of my love, etc... . .it has actually been painful to see things as they really are. I think I understand my role very well. I am a "caretaker" to a mentally ill person and I am stuck.

Or are things better than portrayed here and just over-expressed in your threads?

I do allow myself to vent here... .   these are my feelings of my situation. I would say overall, things are much better in our home since I was willing to leave and "called his bluff", beginning of February?

Is there a potential threatening volcano building up?

Oh no... .   there has been less and less potential threats and I feel that there is much less (let's put up percentages: before I learned about radical acceptance and got into counseling, there was a 65% volatility compared to maybe a 15% now and within that current percentage, he seems to be less than 20% triggered to dysregulation and 80% more likely to deescalate quickly and/or not dysregulate.) He knows that I am willing and unfortunately, even wanting to leave now. I think that causes him to pause to think about his behavior and why I withdrawal from him. An example: it gets near "that time of month" and knowing that whenever I have been sad, anxious, hurt about something in the past that he seemed "to pick a fight" with me. Again, I told him that "it is about time" and "during that time I may say or act in ways that seem odd... .   please ignore me... .   " so as to not have him constantly watching, criticizing myself or son, I just pull away and say "I don't feel well, I need some time alone" and we remove ourselves from uBPDso's area and leave him with the puppies.

What do you think?

I think that I am doing the best for him and myself and my son and our pets that I can. It is as happy and as calm as my son and I can make it... .   whenever there is an "issue" with uBPDso, I check that boundaries are reinforced, established or created if needed.

I just wanted to bring a balance to the reality of your situation, as it is easy to lose our bearing in these relationships and it helps to take inventory on the bigger picture.

Well, I don't see this as "a relationship" anymore. I really feel, though he is the man whom I have loved all my life, I don't know if I love him now. I have committed to him and will stay until my son and I can leave.I believe it is as balanced as it is going to be... .   uBPDso's behavior tends to only momentarily tip the scales but it is more quickly balancing out. The relationship is not there, the cause of my personal pain, loss, grief, hurt, sadness... .   don't know how much more "balanced" that I can be. I am healing from this relationship while still in it. Living with him and "not living with him" has been the hardest thing to balance in my life. It is the deepest source of pain that I have ever experienced.