Are BPD people closer to enlightenment?

[disorderedsociety]

Having been with a pretty self-aware BPD person for 3 years, I saw moments of transcendent happiness, followed by low valleys of alcoholic mental anguish. I opened her up to spirituality and she practiced mindfulness on and off. I guess what I'm getting at is, if there's such a heavy burden (their reality) doesn't it set them up for a fast-track to enlightenment if they can put the pain behind them? My ex seemed pretty wise and spiritual at times so maybe I'm just not understanding this disorder well enough. This train of thought seems to be in a continuum alongside blaming myself for not being X enough to "handle" her.

[valet]

If your model for enlightenment is an unsustainable happiness, then yes, you are correct.

Although I do think that you might on something in regards de-stigmatizing the disorder (a word which is invalidation to a person that cannot accept that they're behavior is erratic pertaining common social standards and 'rules' for happiness), I also think that this thought is a bit shortsighted.

Humans are evolutionarily to programmed to make the best decisions when they are happy. If you are only happy for 1/3 of your life, at a maximum, then most of your decisions will be poor.

Granted 'poor' and not 'poor' is an instance of black and white thinking.

Things be changed, yes, of course.

The main questions to ask are: For whom? and Why?

Situational at best.

[disorderedsociety]

If your model for enlightenment is an unsustainable happiness, then yes, you are correct.

Although I do think that you might on something in regards de-stigmatizing the disorder (a word which is invalidation to a person that cannot accept that they're behavior is erratic pertaining common social standards and 'rules' for happiness), I also think that this thought is a bit shortsighted.

Humans are evolutionarily to programmed to make the best decisions when they are happy. If you are only happy for 1/3 of your life, at a maximum, then most of your decisions will be poor.

Granted 'poor' and not 'poor' is an instance of black and white thinking.

Things be changed, yes, of course.

The main questions to ask are: For whom? and Why?

Situational at best.

So in another words, they can choose to be happy as long as they have something there to pacify them.

Can you elaborate on the de-stigmatizing part? Which thought is short-sighted? As far as human evolution, wouldn't trying different choices lead to discovering which one makes you happy? Or is that something that is well-developed in a healthy person (i.e. the choice to be happy through healthy decisions?)

As far as their black-and-white thinking goes, mine had always said things in black and white terms that I managed to laugh off because of how ridiculous they sounded, I assumed she was maybe joking.

[fromheeltoheal]

Having been with a pretty self-aware BPD person for 3 years, I saw moments of transcendent happiness, followed by low valleys of alcoholic mental anguish.

With borderlines, for which impulsive behavior is a trait of the disorder, alcohol could have been the solution, not the problem, but as we know, drinking too much will create problems of its own.  Been there more than once myself: drink to deal with something negative in the short term, and wake up in the morning with a raging hangover and the same negative whatever, which makes it worse.  You know her, do you know why she drank?

I opened her up to spirituality and she practiced mindfulness on and off. I guess what I'm getting at is, if there's such a heavy burden (their reality) doesn't it set them up for a fast-track to enlightenment if they can put the pain behind them?

Dialectical behavior therapy is a form of cognitive-behavioral therapy that was developed specifically for treatment of borderlines, and I'm not an expert but know it incorporates aspects of Buddhist mindfulness into CBT and has been shown to be effective.  So you were on the right track with your helping her with mindfulness and it sounds like it helped.

It's not about putting the pain behind them for borderlines though, it's about managing the intense emotions and fears that come out of a failure to weather the 'abandonment depression', a critical stage of development most of us go through on the way to becoming an autonomous individual, our own person.  A borderline never does that, so they bang up against it for a lifetime, fearing abandonment and attaching to others to complete themselves, and dealing with the fallout of not having a fully formed self of their own, which shows up as the traits of the disorder we're familiar with.

My ex seemed pretty wise and spiritual at times so maybe I'm just not understanding this disorder well enough. This train of thought seems to be in a continuum alongside blaming myself for not being X enough to "handle" her.

Yes, self-blame is common among us, although you would need to be perfect to satisfy a borderline full time and perfection is an unobtainable goal, so no sense beating yourself up for that, and time to let yourself off the hook, yes?

[disorderedsociety]

Having been with a pretty self-aware BPD person for 3 years, I saw moments of transcendent happiness, followed by low valleys of alcoholic mental anguish.

With borderlines, for which impulsive behavior is a trait of the disorder, alcohol could have been the solution, not the problem, but as we know, drinking too much will create problems of its own.  Been there more than once myself: drink to deal with something negative in the short term, and wake up in the morning with a raging hangover and the same negative whatever, which makes it worse.  You know her, do you know why she drank?

I opened her up to spirituality and she practiced mindfulness on and off. I guess what I'm getting at is, if there's such a heavy burden (their reality) doesn't it set them up for a fast-track to enlightenment if they can put the pain behind them?

Dialectical behavior therapy is a form of cognitive-behavioral therapy that was developed specifically for treatment of borderlines, and I'm not an expert but know it incorporates aspects of Buddhist mindfulness into CBT and has been shown to be effective.  So you were on the right track with your helping her with mindfulness and it sounds like it helped.

It's not about putting the pain behind them for borderlines though, it's about managing the intense emotions and fears that come out of a failure to weather the 'abandonment depression', a critical stage of development most of us go through on the way to becoming an autonomous individual, our own person.  A borderline never does that, so they bang up against it for a lifetime, fearing abandonment and attaching to others to complete themselves, and dealing with the fallout of not having a fully formed self of their own, which shows up as the traits of the disorder we're familiar with.

My ex seemed pretty wise and spiritual at times so maybe I'm just not understanding this disorder well enough. This train of thought seems to be in a continuum alongside blaming myself for not being X enough to "handle" her.

Yes, self-blame is common among us, although you would need to be perfect to satisfy a borderline full time and perfection is an unobtainable goal, so no sense beating yourself up for that, and time to let yourself off the hook, yes?

Thanks for your reply, I'm integrating these truths into my life.

She said she drank because it alleviated her anxiety. I realize now even my presence made her anxious, as stillness meant something terrible would happen (identity loss = me abandoning.) Strangely, she ended up with the replacement because of a night drunk texting.

And being in the process of accepting that I couldn't change it, all I want now is for them to not be happy. That said, I think anyone who attaches to a borderline is unhealthy and ultimately the union ends in a very personal pain for both parties.

[fromheeltoheal]

And being in the process of accepting that I couldn't change it, all I want now is for them to not be happy. That said, I think anyone who attaches to a borderline is unhealthy and ultimately the union ends in a very personal pain for both parties.

Yes, that's a natural response, a little bit of desire for revenge along with the thought that if they were happy, what would that mean about me?  That I wasn't good enough?

And there isn't a clean black and white line between healthy and unhealthy, it's more a grey continuum.  Some folks are just as disordered as the borderline and create a very disordered bond between them, some folks end up trapped for years, miserable, but not doing anything about it, and some folks just get blindsided by something they've never experienced before, feel some pain, and end the relationship.  I remember reading a post soon after I got here, where someone who was in a position to know, don't remember who, said many relationships with borderlines end once the honeymoon phase ends, or the idealization phase in the case of borderlines, within a few months, with others being either with someone who exhibits traits of the disorder lightly, the cycles of the disorder take a very long time to cycle through, or they're codependent to the extreme so it works for them in that sense.

[valet]

So in another words, they can choose to be happy as long as they have something there to pacify them.

Can you elaborate on the de-stigmatizing part? Which thought is short-sighted? As far as human evolution, wouldn't trying different choices lead to discovering which one makes you happy? Or is that something that is well-developed in a healthy person (i.e. the choice to be happy through healthy decisions?)

As far as their black-and-white thinking goes, mine had always said things in black and white terms that I managed to laugh off because of how ridiculous they sounded, I assumed she was maybe joking.

Reclaiming the term disorder as a 'path to enlightenment' changes the meaning of the problem from one that is negative to one that is positive. De-stigmatization. It makes the disorder seem more readily acceptable, as long as that worldview takes into consideration that behavior is altered in a negative way. Again, however, this could also be used as a denial mechanism, which is why I think that your insight might be a little short-sighted.

The evolution part: The 'false' coping mechanisms that are inherent to a pwBPD's thought process drive them down a somewhat erratic, unstable path in life. They don't ever know what they want because they don't ever know who they are, at least not on a consistent basis. Imagine being 50 and not knowing what you want, or having it change every couple of years. I'm 25 and I already know what I want out of life, give or take a few things.

So, evolutionarily, a pwBPD might be operating at peak happiness during these periods of certainty and confidence, but unlike someone without the disorder, they never achieve it in an elongated, stable manner. A good decision made during a period of happiness might result in something catastrophically bad and regrettable without that even keel.

Take my own situation for example: Ex and I moved to Europe together about a year ago. We (and it was more she) made the decision during our initial honeymoon phase. It seemed amazing, but then all of sudden she lost her support network at home and starting blaming me for everything. She became very depressed, and closed herself off to the world. The only person that she could trust was me, and that was a touch and go thing depending on her mood.

This led to the end of our relationship, and now she is running around in a state of semi-misery looking for anyone that will give her attention. Is this behavior good or bad? Neither, I would say, but as far as having 'good' habits and setting herself for a stable life post-relationship with me, I would say that I would personally make different choices.

[enlighten me]

I think to be enlightened you have to be able to see things from every angle. I dont think this is possible for pwBPD. They are very good at becoming experts in something but if their version is challenged they are not able to see it from anothers perspective.

[Infared]

In my world, if you lack empathy you are WAY below "enlightened", 

[disorderedsociety]

In my world, if you lack empathy you are WAY below "enlightened", 

Ex would complain that everyone lacked empathy

[Copperfox]

True enlightenment requires a rejection of the "victim mentality" which is all-pervasive in modern western society.  Everyone is a victim, everyone else is to blame.

Enlightenment is, at its core, about living free of attachment. On the surface, it may seem that pwBPD are like this, since attachments for them seem to come and go so easy. But in reality, a person who lives in perpetual victimhood (like pwBPD) is not free from attachment ... .they are attached to the blame they dole out on others, attached to their identity as a victim. As one who has no agency. As one who suffers. They see themselves as one who is acted upon the world, not as one who acts upon it. All victims are like this. They are, ironically, as far from enlightenment as one can possibly be.

As 2010 said, pwBPD are facing the wrong way.  They were always facing the wrong way.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=131343.msg1287975#msg1287975

[fromheeltoheal]

True enlightenment requires a rejection of the "victim mentality" which is all-pervasive in modern western society.  Everyone is a victim, everyone else is to blame.

Enlightenment is, at its core, about living free of attachment. On the surface, it may seem that pwBPD are like this, since attachments for them seem to come and go so easy. But in reality, a person who lives in perpetual victimhood (like pwBPD) is not free from attachment ... .they are attached to the blame they dole out on others, attached to their identity as a victim. As one who has no agency. As one who suffers. They see themselves as one who is acted upon the world, not as one who acts upon it. All victims are like this. They are, ironically, as far from enlightenment as one can possibly be.

As 2010 said, pwBPD are facing the wrong way.  They were always facing the wrong way.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=131343.msg1287975#msg1287975

Yes, and the 'victim mentality', victimhood, is so popular because you don't have to take responsibility for anything if you're a victim, it's always the evil 'them' who are responsible.  Pity pots are comfortable, been there, done that, and maybe the first step towards enlightenment is to get off your ass and take responsibility for your life?

Funny: my ex used to want to be in control of everything, yet she blamed me for everything, so one day I said "Wow, it's really cool that I have all this control, whatever I do, you'll react to it and blame me, yet how you acted was in response to what I did.  Control baby!"  She didn't like that; after her eyes got done rolling back in her head, I was an ass for the day, a little more than usual.

[disorderedsociety]

True enlightenment requires a rejection of the "victim mentality" which is all-pervasive in modern western society.  Everyone is a victim, everyone else is to blame.

Enlightenment is, at its core, about living free of attachment. On the surface, it may seem that pwBPD are like this, since attachments for them seem to come and go so easy. But in reality, a person who lives in perpetual victimhood (like pwBPD) is not free from attachment ... .they are attached to the blame they dole out on others, attached to their identity as a victim. As one who has no agency. As one who suffers. They see themselves as one who is acted upon the world, not as one who acts upon it. All victims are like this. They are, ironically, as far from enlightenment as one can possibly be.

As 2010 said, pwBPD are facing the wrong way.  They were always facing the wrong way.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=131343.msg1287975#msg1287975

Wow, this could be why when I left I had so much hostility and fear around anyone I met. It seems their behaviors can bring us down to our lowest-self. I also think experimenting with psychedelics with her really put a nail in the coffin that was my brain at the time.