I need help sorting thru this

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Facts:

Three stepdaughters - 16, 14, and 11 (I also have two sons - 17 and 14)

50/50 for the three younger kids (DS14, SD14 and SD11) in the summer, the two older ones are with us full time (DS17 and SD16)

Schedule for DS14is EOWE (with his Dad)  when school starts next week, stays 50/50 for SD14 and SD11

Husband pays CS (when there shouldn't be any)

Mom just moved in with her BF who lives 15 miles south of us

It's not a straight shot drive - it takes 35 minutes to get to her house

Kids are still going to the same school in our school district (note: we moved 2 years ago to be closer to her and to be in the school district)

Mom just got a job closer to her home, meaning that she'll have leave at 5:45am to be able to drop the older one off in time for school

My issues as of late:

This summer, since she's moved, she drops the girls off almost every morning on *her* weeks (she still works near our house) - doesn't ask, just does it. It's after my husband and I go to work. My husband complained to her that we don't buy enough food for them on *her* weeks (true) and her solution was to send them with lunch.  

I complained to my husband that they still are eating snacks, drinking the last of whatever is in the refrigerator, using our utilities, messying our house and more importantly she didn't actually ask if it was OK. My husband doesn't think it's a hill to die on, so he just let's them come.

I finally put my foot down yesterday because no one would be home to watch the youngest one because the older girls had softball tryouts at school from 12:00 - 4:00. Her response was "She'll just have to go with them to tryouts." My husband told her "no way". Well, guess who showed up this morning anyways.  

My other major issue is her expecting SD16 to drop off the younger two after softball games/tryouts/practice at her house. Mom simply goes home and then tells SD16 to drop them off. So she has to drive them all the way to her house and then back to our house. We, of course, pay for SD's gas. She spent $180 last month in gas. That's quite a bit for a 16yo.

My fear is this. I have a feeling that my SDs are going to be spending a lot of nights at our house once school starts - the same way they are spending a lot of days there - when they aren't even supposed to be. The other option is that she'll expect my SD16 (or husband) to do the driving. Which isn't fair to SD16 - that's an hour there and back after she's gone to school all day and then to practice. My husband also doesn't need to drive all the way down there.

It's the pattern though. It's WHY we moved to be closer to her.

The Mama of my stepdaughters suffers from BPD. She struggles in boundaries and with a certain entitlement. I do believe that her intent isn't to bust boundaries and to treat our house/our money/our time as a free-for-all.

I'm struggling in what's the "right" thing to do. Money is a major issue for me.  We've both agreed to both of our older children switching to full time with no alteration in child support. So I'm basically being underpaid and his ex is being overpaid. My sanity is a major issue for me. Five kids is a lot of work. Four of them are teenagers. I might lose my mind.  

I want the kids to feel like they can come to our house... . but I also just think she should not alter her life (by moving) and her solution to her having her kids taken care of is to just drop them in our lap. The younger girls also really like the 50/50 arrangement - the relationship with their mom is relatively good.

I'm trying not to make it all about me and my stress levels, but it's causing a lot of conflict in the relationships with my husband.  SD16 and I seem to be on the same page - she's tired of picking up the slack too. She said this morning "Mom needs to take care of this" as she took her youngest sister to school registration - only after mom agreed to take care of it if my husband took care of the older two (which he did). She said she couldn't get off work.

I'd like to approach it in a calm, cool, rational matter with my husband and get it resolved.

He tends to just ignore the problem and hope it goes away. I'm not sure he's even realizing *a* problem being that he's not really being directly affected.

*I* feel like we're enabling some behavior and it needs to get nipped in the bud.

Or maybe he's right. Just let the kids do whatever and roll with it?

I just think that if the schedule needs to change to accomodate the move, lets get the schedule changed and talk about it.  This current situation is not working for me.  

[DreamGirl]

Facts:

Three stepdaughters - 16, 14, and 11 (I also have two sons - 17 and 14)

50/50 for the three younger kids (DS14, SD14 and SD11) in the summer, the two older ones are with us full time (DS17 and SD16)

Schedule for DS14is EOWE (with his Dad)  when school starts next week, stays 50/50 for SD14 and SD11

Husband pays CS (when there shouldn't be any)

Mom just moved in with her BF who lives 15 miles south of us

It's not a straight shot drive - it takes 35 minutes to get to her house

Kids are still going to the same school in our school district (note: we moved 2 years ago to be closer to her and to be in the school district)

Mom just got a job closer to her home, meaning that she'll have leave at 5:45am to be able to drop the older one off in time for school

My issues as of late:

This summer, since she's moved, she drops the girls off almost every morning on *her* weeks (she still works near our house) - doesn't ask, just does it. It's after my husband and I go to work. My husband complained to her that we don't buy enough food for them on *her* weeks (true) and her solution was to send them with lunch.  

I complained to my husband that they still are eating snacks, drinking the last of whatever is in the refrigerator, using our utilities, messying our house and more importantly she didn't actually ask if it was OK. My husband doesn't think it's a hill to die on, so he just let's them come.

I finally put my foot down yesterday because no one would be home to watch the youngest one because the older girls had softball tryouts at school from 12:00 - 4:00. Her response was "She'll just have to go with them to tryouts." My husband told her "no way". Well, guess who showed up this morning anyways.  

My other major issue is her expecting SD16 to drop off the younger two after softball games/tryouts/practice at her house. Mom simply goes home and then tells SD16 to drop them off. So she has to drive them all the way to her house and then back to our house. We, of course, pay for SD's gas. She spent $180 last month in gas. That's quite a bit for a 16yo.

My fear is this. I have a feeling that my SDs are going to be spending a lot of nights at our house once school starts - the same way they are spending a lot of days there - when they aren't even supposed to be. The other option is that she'll expect my SD16 (or husband) to do the driving. Which isn't fair to SD16 - that's an hour there and back after she's gone to school all day and then to practice. My husband also doesn't need to drive all the way down there.

It's the pattern though. It's WHY we moved to be closer to her.

The Mama of my stepdaughters suffers from BPD. She struggles in boundaries and with a certain entitlement. I do believe that her intent isn't to bust boundaries and to treat our house/our money/our time as a free-for-all.

I'm struggling in what's the "right" thing to do. Money is a major issue for me.  We've both agreed to both of our older children switching to full time with no alteration in child support. So I'm basically being underpaid and his ex is being overpaid. My sanity is a major issue for me. Five kids is a lot of work. Four of them are teenagers. I might lose my mind.  

I want the kids to feel like they can come to our house... . but I also just think she should not alter her life (by moving) and her solution to her having her kids taken care of is to just drop them in our lap. The younger girls also really like the 50/50 arrangement - the relationship with their mom is relatively good.

I'm trying not to make it all about me and my stress levels, but it's causing a lot of conflict in the relationships with my husband.  SD16 and I seem to be on the same page - she's tired of picking up the slack too. She said this morning "Mom needs to take care of this" as she took her youngest sister to school registration - only after mom agreed to take care of it if my husband took care of the older two (which he did). She said she couldn't get off work.

I'd like to approach it in a calm, cool, rational matter with my husband and get it resolved.

He tends to just ignore the problem and hope it goes away. I'm not sure he's even realizing *a* problem being that he's not really being directly affected.

*I* feel like we're enabling some behavior and it needs to get nipped in the bud.

Or maybe he's right. Just let the kids do whatever and roll with it?

I just think that if the schedule needs to change to accomodate the move, lets get the schedule changed and talk about it.  This current situation is not working for me.  

[mamachelle]

DreamGirl,

I do find it amazing how much food, utilities, and gas the average teenager can consume. Just the amount of space a kid takes up in a hallway triples from the time they are 7 to 17 I think.

My DH and I do not pay or get any child support for our 5 kids with other parents. We are stretched very thin and it's getting worse as they get older. We also have my  3 SS 9,10, 15 90% of the time. My 2 DD 13 and 16 100%.

I'd like to approach it in a calm, cool, rational matter with my husband and get it resolved.

He tends to just ignore the problem and hope it goes away. I'm not sure he's even realizing *a* problem being that he's not really being directly affected.

*I* feel like we're enabling some behavior and it needs to get nipped in the bud.

Or maybe he's right. Just let the kids do whatever and roll with it?

I just think that if the schedule needs to change to accomodate the move, lets get the schedule changed and talk about it.  This current situation is not working for me.   

I pretty much have to come up with possible solutions before I approach DH. He takes a very black/white view of things and starts talking about faking his own death and sending his kids back to their mama if asked to figure stuff out like this.

Maybe if you had a couple plans ranging from like:

a- SD16 is not a taxi and once school starts Mom needs to pay $180 a month in gas to DH or kids stay with you guys and child support is changed.

b-Mom takes them more on weekends and DH takes them during school week.

c-If kids are here full time then I will need 3 nights a week off from cooking/cleaning/shopping and you DH will need to pick up the slack.

I don't know if this is much help.

In my case, asking more of a BPD parent who doesn't want to do it usually results in the parent "calling in sick" anyway.

 mamachelle

[DreamGirl]

Thank you mamachelle.  

Maybe I'm in desperate need of validation here. I feel awful for being so annoyed that the kids are with us more and more. It's her method of operation, she tends to hyper-focus on these new relationships and it would make sense that she would default back to this OLD relationship to take on the parenting of the kiddos.

I mean it's not that I don't want the kids there.

It's just... .

Hard sometimes. I don't want to feel guilty for saying "hey, this parenting plan is for a reason".

Maybe if you had a couple plans ranging from like:

a- SD16 is not a taxi and once school starts Mom needs to pay $180 a month in gas to DH or kids stay with you guys and child support is changed.

b-Mom takes them more on weekends and DH takes them during school week.

c-If kids are here full time then I will need 3 nights a week off from cooking/cleaning/shopping and you DH will need to pick up the slack.

Good advice.

Thank you.  

[GaGrl]

You are being realistic.

It's NOT that you don't want the children with you.  That's not the issue.

The issue is that, under the new circumstances, the parenting plan (including the $$$) no longer works.

The problem is how to give that message to DH's ex in a way that it is received in the spirit it's given.

[Forward2free]

I don't have teenagers, but are they able to articulate what works for them? Perhaps if the girls told their dad what is and isn't working, he would be more inclined to come up with a better solution?

If his 16yo is struggling with school, sports, added responsibilities and travel now, that will only get worse with the pressures of senior school too. I don't think she can be expected to look after her sisters and succeed at school without something going wrong under pressure. She's only 16.

I was the oldest of 3 girls in a functioning family, but my father worked away during the week and I was assisting my mum in much the same way you have mentioned. It's difficult to not feel resentment.

[Matt]

Where does D16 get the $180 gas money?  Can you just cut that off?  Or talk with her - "It's not your job.  Quit doing it."

About all the kids spending so much time at your house - making a mess etc.  (And I know what you mean about that aspect... . ):

Maybe there is a way to make a virtue of necessity.  The kids spending more time at your house is probably good for them, but a burden to you.  But they are old enough to take on more responsibility and not leave a mess.  There is almost no part of housekeeping that kids this age can't help with.  Mine (at times) mow the lawn, do their own laundry, clean their own bathroom, fix meals, do the dishes, etc. - almost everything - not all the time - not as much as I wish - but when I'm overwhelmed I give them jobs and no TV or internet til the jobs are done, and that works pretty well.

If that's not good enough during the week - often there is homework so I have to just let things go - you can get them to help catch up on the weekend.  I think they can understand this if you explain it as you have explained it to us:  "I'm glad you're all here so much but I need your help to make it work.  Saturday morning is for jobs - everybody gets a couple til we're all caught up.  Let's start at 8:00 and we can be finished by 10:00."

As for the money, I would suggest making the change you think is right - don't wait for the legal process to act - but also file a motion so the legal process will be underway.  Decide what's right - I hope you and your husband can stay on the same sheet of music - don't let yourself be victimized - just quit paying CS if the situation has changed and CS is no longer appropriate.  Worst case, the court will rule against you, and you'll have to maybe pay it at some point, but probably not.  (But I doubt you'll get back any of what has already been paid.)

(And yes, I realize I'm a hypocrite, since I'm in a similar situation and I keep paying it.  It doesn't bother me as much as it bothers you, and it's not much.  And I may go for it one of these days... )

[Free One]

As for the money, I would suggest making the change you think is right - don't wait for the legal process to act - but also file a motion so the legal process will be underway.  Decide what's right - I hope you and your husband can stay on the same sheet of music - don't let yourself be victimized - just quit paying CS if the situation has changed and CS is no longer appropriate.  Worst case, the court will rule against you, and you'll have to maybe pay it at some point, but probably not.  (But I doubt you'll get back any of what has already been paid.)

Here, failure to pay child support can result in criminal contempt charges from the state, as well as losing your driver's license, liens, etc, in as soon as 90 days of being behind. I wouldn't recommend not paying what has been ordered by the court.

DreamGirl, it's a tough spot for you. It is hard being the responsible parents and having the parent with BPD dump all over you. I think the best course of action is to document each and everyone of these times she does it. Keep could records, then ask her to change the parenting plan... . and child support. Court may be necessary to achieve it.

The question to ask may be, if she didn't drop the kids off to you, then where would the be? At least in your home you know they are cared for.

[ForeverDad]

My other major issue is her expecting SD16 to drop off the younger two after softball games/tryouts/practice at her house. Mom simply goes home and then tells SD16 to drop them off. So she has to drive them all the way to her house and then back to our house. We, of course, pay for SD's gas. She spent $180 last month in gas. That's quite a bit for a 16yo.

My fear is this. I have a feeling that my SDs are going to be spending a lot of nights at our house once school starts - the same way they are spending a lot of days there - when they aren't even supposed to be. The other option is that she'll expect my SD16 (or husband) to do the driving. Which isn't fair to SD16 - that's an hour there and back after she's gone to school all day and then to practice. My husband also doesn't need to drive all the way down there.

You two agreed it's probably better for the kids to be at dad's house rather than with their mom, right?  Well then, if the kids come to your house why don't you tell ex to come pick them up?  Why should you or the teen drivers get stuck with ex's choices?  I mean, let ex bear the consequences of her choices.  Or does that mean dad has to bring them to an exchange location or her home at the time specified in the parenting schedule?

I'm struggling in what's the "right" thing to do. Money is a major issue for me.  We've both agreed to both of our older children switching to full time with no alteration in child support. So I'm basically being underpaid and his ex is being overpaid. My sanity is a major issue for me. Five kids is a lot of work. Four of them are teenagers. I might lose my mind. 

This is only an agreement with the kids, probably just verbal, right?  Is it a binding agreement with the ex?  One motto I have is that we always have the right to reconsider our decisions based on changed circumstances or increased insight.  The expenses are mounting, something has to give, why not that agreement with the kids?  "Kids, we know we said we would still send child support to your mother even if you were with us but money is getting tight, we just can't manage that any more."

Something has to give.  There's no easy answer, every option has complications and ramifications.  I wouldn't pursue anything in court until the kids had established a documented pattern for the school year for a month or two since you can expect that ex will pull the kids back as soon as a motion for CS reduction is filed.  You want enough history established that is indisputable, courts prefer not to change the way things are for the kids.  If he's always been paying too much, then likely an update is long overdue.

Mind you, this is coming from someone who has spent more of the past 8 years in court than out.  For me, it's just another day, another year.  Maybe that's not your way.  I get it.

[DreamGirl]

So after some great feedback from all of you and chatting with my trusted real life friends... .

The solution was this:

I talked to my husband about my concerns and we agreed that SD14 can get dropped off for circumstances that it would make sense that she stay at our house: softball practice/games during her working hours; sleepovers at friends in our neighborhood. Overnights as well (i.e. there was a tournament last weekend). He firmly drew that line in the sand, calmly and cooly and while doing her a favor (which helps her own calm and coolness). He reminded his ex-wife that the girls want to go to her house on her weeks. It's not about us not wanting them here but about them needing to spend time with their Mama. Which is very true - it doesn't feel good to them when she doesn't pick them up because she's too tired.

I placed a limit with SD when it came to the gas. I told SD that she is only allowed $110 per month (approx. 2 tanks) and she has to reimburse any money after that. She has a substantial amount of money in her savings account (that she worked hard to earn) that she doesn't want to part with. She felt that it wasn't fair because of how much she drives for her mom - I told her that it was up to her to figure out. That I work hard for my money too.

I then talked to Mama about the gas. She called me - only because it's my gas card and it was me who told her to figure it out. I often divert this stuff to the hubs, but I felt prepared and her and I are in a good place. So, I validated her frustration with how SD broached the subject, but not that SD broached the subject.  I explained to her that it's a good lesson for SD to learn (along with my own son) when she's driving all her friends around and that she needs to start being mindful of it. Mama told me that she had to pay for her own gas growing up and so she understood. Also offered to throw money in the gas tank if SD was helping her out with driving (which I know is an honest statement in the right now, but won't really be something she'll follow thru on). The truth is that I'm only giving SD $110 in gas... .and I'm letting go of the outcome. It's my own line.

It's worked out really well - she only spent $90 on the last bill.

Mom also picked the girls up every night last week. Even stayed late for my SD14's softball practice one night after my husband reminded her that he would not drop her off afterwards and neither would SD16 because it's not fair to her to drive all that way when she has homework. Also explained that she didn't have all her stuff (makeup, clothes, etc) at our house to be able to spend the night. She got pretty upset, but he expected as much. She also was fine 2 days later.

It's hard setting limits - but easier when she actually agreed at a certain point.

 DreamGirl    

[sanemom]

DG,

I am so glad this all worked out.  I read this a little late in the game so I felt a bit silly offering up a suggestion at that point, but it looks like you found a good solution that is win-win for all involved.  It sounds like there was a little balking at the boundary, but that is to be expected (that happens with people with BPD and without it, it seems).

Sometimes just some communication and brainstorming can fix it all.

[Free One]

Good for you!