Needing calm

[Martind3n12]

Hello,
I'm trying to reverse a cycle of seeking calm and validation from my BP partner.  I have been turning to opposite sex surrogates for this (just occasional brief connection online and friendship with one particular person) but this just makes my SO even more anxious which perpetuates the cycle.  Any thoughts on how to improve this?  I've tried posting the topic on a facebook page but she found out and went after me there.  Feeling desperate about everything.  Thanks for any insight.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

I’m not sure I’m understanding your post. So you’re trying to get emotional support from women outside your relationship? And there’s one in particular that you’ve developed a friendship with? And your partner doesn’t like this?

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi Martin - Welcome!

I'm trying to reverse a cycle of seeking calm and validation from my BP partner.  I have been turning to opposite sex surrogates for this (just occasional brief connection online and friendship with one particular person)

You may have to radically accept that your partner will never be someone to offer you validation and calmness.

How long have you been together?

Has your partner ever validated you in the past and offered periods of calmness?

You say "long-term relationship", so I'm assuming you aren't married.  Do you have an agreement that you are exclusive with each other?

Some people are able to self-validate.  They may turn to male friends and family for validation.  Are there any possibilities, other than females?

[Martind3n12]

Yes,  two years ago, I had a stress, healing and trauma response that created the original attachment to this outside person.  It's a platonic friendship that I then abandoned a year ago to try and promote my partner's trauma this friendship created. My partner initially tried to understand but couldn't accept anything but complete isolation from this person. I have since done individual work to understand that I have a need for relational healing due to childhood issues, but my committed partner's needs always took a front seat because she wears her abandonment issues on her sleeve while I tend to bury my own issues.  We are in an avoidant/anxious attachment trap and can't seem to escape.

[Martind3n12]

Thank you for the reply.

How long have you been together? - 12 years

Has your partner ever validated you in the past and offered periods of calmness?
Yes, sometimes.

You say "long-term relationship", so I'm assuming you aren't married.  Do you have an agreement that you are exclusive with each other?  We are exclusive, certainly monogamous, and I've had zero romantic contact with anyone for the time we've been together.  We both believe one person cannot meet 100% of our needs, but despite this, she is hyper vigilant, sees things as black and white, and feels threatened in a way that is beyond my coping limits.

Some people are able to self-validate.  They may turn to male friends and family for validation.  Are there any possibilities, other than females?

Yes, I do have close male friends but because of my own childhood trauma (father abuse, mother neglect and narcissism) I feel more comfortable with females and am able to self validate when I have time alone, which during the pandemic has been difficult.  These brief connections and the one friendship provide calm and connection without the anxiety of the walking on eggshells feeling.

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[Martind3n12]

I’m not sure I’m understanding your post. So you’re trying to get emotional support from women outside your relationship? And there’s one in particular that you’ve developed a friendship with? And your partner doesn’t like this?

Yes, thanks for the questions.  That's it in a nutshell.  It's not so much that I'm trying to get emotional support, but I do enjoy an occasional friendly connection.  It's never anything suggestive, sexual, or intimate.  But my partner and may disagree on what constitutes intimacy and the boundaries around this.  We are close in our understanding of monogamy, but there is a palpable gap in how we look at the world.

[Martind3n12]

Edit:
Yes,  two years ago, I had a stress, healing and trauma response that created the original attachment to this outside person.  It's a platonic friendship that I then abandoned a year ago to try and promote the healing of my partner's trauma this friendship created.


I must add that I was not honest about the friendship at its onset, because I was unable to sort out my own trauma response and didn't want to mischaracterize it (either as a love interest nor a casual acquaintance - it's neither), and because I didn't feel safe sharing it.  I am a self diagnosed "fawner" personality type which leads me to omit and withhold information as a way to keep myself safe, which is highly counterproductive when pair bonded to a hyper vigilant person.

[Naughty Nibbler]

We are exclusive, certainly monogamous, and I've had zero romantic contact with anyone for the time we've been together.  We both believe one person cannot meet 100% of our needs, but despite this, she is hyper vigilant, sees things as black and white, and feels threatened in a way that is beyond my coping limits.    

Some women see an emotional relationship more threatening than a sexual one.  It's easy to agree that one person can't meet each of your needs, but difficult to accept an actual situation where someone else meets a partner's need, that you aren't able to meet.

I am a self diagnosed "fawner" personality type which leads me to omit and withhold information as a way to keep myself safe, which is highly counterproductive when pair bonded to a hyper vigilant person.

I think you are describing what many of use would call a "people pleaser" or "co-dependent".

Yes, I do have close male friends but because of my own childhood trauma (father abuse, mother neglect and narcissism) I feel more comfortable with females    

Is there maybe one male friend who is a good listener and not overly critical?  I suspect you think all males will act as your father did, likely over critical and invalidating?

Have you tried therapy with a male therapist?  Just thinking if you found a male therapist that you liked, it could be an opportunity to work through your issue with not being able to seek support from males.

am able to self validate when I have time alone, which during the pandemic has been difficult.  These brief connections and the one friendship provide calm and connection without the anxiety of the walking on eggshells feeling.  

Yes, the pandemic has been difficult.  Are you able to get in some form of exercise?  Even just walking around where you live, can give you an opportunity to get some solitude.  

Do you practice any mindfulness exercises?  There is a lot to choose from.  I use an app called Insight Timer.  They have a lot to choose from to help calm your body and mind.  There is a lot there for free, but if you choose to subscribe to the premium membership (approx. $60/yr), you can use the course materials and interact with the live presentations.  You can still attend the live presentations, without a premium membership, but you just can't interact in the live chat feature.

The Insight Timer live presentations are a great way to really feel you are communicating with others on various mental health topics and mindfulness practices.  Presenters are from all over the world.  Several of them are males who went on quests to manage their severe anxiety of other mental health issues.

Insight Timer, also, recently started what they call "Circles", where people with similar meditation interests, mental health management opportunities, etc., connect by messaging within the app.

Using Insight Timer can be a bit of a journey.  Some of the presenters are life coaches.  Perhaps, a male life coach (with a background in psychology), could be something to pursue.

Just throwing out some ideas.  I don't mean to sound like a sale person for Insight Timer, but it can be a great tool for anyone who feels isolated and/or needs some anxiety reduction tools.

[once removed]

But my partner and may disagree on what constitutes intimacy and the boundaries around this.  We are close in our understanding of monogamy, but there is a palpable gap in how we look at the world.

i think that this is it, in a nutshell.

its really about how the two of you see opposite sex relationships, and whether those views are compatible...or can become compatible.

[Martind3n12]

Thanks for all the responses.  Yes, I have been in therapy for 2 years with a male therapist and we have been in couples counseling for 2 years also, on our 4th therapist now (all have been female).   I'm hoping this last one can break through and accomplish some kind of understanding so we can stay together.  The problem now is that we just trigger each others threat response - she goes from 0 to 60 with anxiety and anger, and the anger makes me retreat and withhold information, which perpetuates the cycle. 

I used to exercise regularly but that's been limited lately due to injury.  I do believe it's part of important self care and want to continue.

[Martind3n12]

Is there maybe one male friend who is a good listener and not overly critical?  I suspect you think all males will act as your father did, likely over critical and invalidating?

I do have some close male friends, they are either not so great listeners or tell me how it's my responsibility to "fix it". I have a relative who dated a person with BPD and she has been helpful, though telling me that I can't fix it.   I don't have trust or safety issues with males, just tend to bond and feel better intimacy with women.  My father was physically and mentally abusive, my mother was and is a narcissist who never stood up for me.  She recently told me about how my dad wanted them to both be on the "same page" with my beatings and she acquiesced.  My trauma response and healing from this have been thwarted by my SO because she wears her issues on her sleeve while I repress mine, always striving to make her happy.

Even just walking around where you live, can give you an opportunity to get some solitude.

I'm living alone for 2 weeks to try and sort things out, but have seen my SO repeatedly during this time. 

Do you practice any mindfulness exercises?
Insight Timer, also, recently started what they call "Circles", where people with similar meditation interests, mental health management opportunities, etc., connect by messaging within the app. 

Yes, my SO actually has Insight Timer and we use it periodically.  I'll check out the Circles feature. Thank you for the plug.   

[once removed]

I do have some close male friends, they are either not so great listeners or tell me how it's my responsibility to "fix it".

our lovest (TM) of loved ones can be limited in their support.

pick one or two, tell them what you need in terms of support, how they can best support you. tell them where they arent being helpful.

if none of them can provide a sort of balanced support, lean on them for different kinds of support, like just hanging out.

when i was going through my break up, no one close to me was able to help advise me in the context of bpd. most werent able to continuously give me balanced advice. people ran out of things to say. people got frustrated with my stuckness. often times, the way i got through was to get practical advice here, and the support i got from my friends and family was just being around them.

[Notwendy]

I have read in some books that we tend to pair up with someone who somehow triggers our childhood issues so that we can work on them. That's an interesting idea- I don't have documented proof of that and I am not a professional but I can see this pattern in my own situation and it it interesting that it seems to be in yours.

I am a self diagnosed "fawner" personality type which leads me to omit and withhold information as a way to keep myself safe, which is highly counterproductive when pair bonded to a hyper vigilant person.

Your partner has a need for transparency in order to feel safe, and you have the need to not be transparent in order for you to feel safe. Can you see the pattern- your need to feel safe is opposed to hers and vice versa. She's looking at you to make her feel safe. You are looking at her for validation and safety in a sense- and not getting it- so you look elsewhere- which makes her feel even more unsafe.

How do you change this? First of all- we can't heal someone else's emotional trauma. Only our own. So you have to work on this one for you.

Having an emotional relationship with another woman would probably upset most partners. You say that male friends can't provide what she does. Maybe your partner can't either, but this isn't helping your relationship. Some other ways are through therapy, support groups, clergy.

You can't work on her trauma but you can examine why you have the need to withold information from her to feel safe. I don't think we need to have every detail out in the open- we can have boundaries, but I think this also needs to be balanced with building trust in you. Hiding a close friendship is going to take a toll on trust. Any time you are less than honest will take a toll on trust. If she's hypervigilant- while that is her issue to deal with, you need to consider if there's a a part you are playing to make this worse.

Ultimately, I don't think it's possible to "have your cake and eat it too"- a trusting relationship with an emotional connection to another woman on the side" if the two of you are in a monogomous relationship. She may not be capable of meeting all your needs but that may take looking for a less threatening way to meet your social needs and also- continuing to work on why you need this kind of validation, or to not be forthcoming to feel safe and change that.

Intimacy requires being vulnerable- and being vulnerable feels unsafe. You may find it easier to confide in an online situation with someone you are not physically connected to because, it's safer- there's less at stake with this person. Witholding information might make you feel safer- but it may not be helping your relationship.