I don't know if I should leave my BPD or if there is hope.

[Whit Huntington]

I don't know if I should leave my BPD or if there is hope.   We've been together on and off for 2 years.  Some wonderful things, some awful things.   I realize from the board that me trying to help has been a mistake, I've ended up feeling drained by an emotional vampire.  Problem is we have started a pattern:  We both work on and think about HIS problems.  But he contributes 0% to respectful problem solving, 0% in nurturing and growing the relationship, and 0% in thinking of and supporting ME. Those tasks are 100% on me to carry.  

I never should have carried more than my 50%.  I don’t want to do it anymore or engage  when his Pain is in control of his actions.  I want support too.

I want to learn the skills proposed in the SUCCESS STORIES thread here, is there a link?

I also want him to get into the CORRECT therapy straight away - I guess that would be DBT in Chicago?  Where exactly?  He knows he has problems, but I do not think he realizes it is BPD.  Can I get him into the right therapy without making him feel stigmatized?

Extra info:
He is professionally successful but over stressed, workaholic but trying to improve. He doesn't take enough care of his health.  He has a teenage son who is now in a therapeutic boarding school for pot smoking/failing out of school.  He is engaged in weekly phone therapy with his son, and I can see him applying those skills to us!  But the going is so slow and painful... I took him back from a break up, we had a wonderful 3 months, but after that I left to Milwaukee for a contract 2 hours away for 2 months. Since then there's been a relapse to the things that broke us up last year: lack of consistent phone or FaceTime contact (we had a deal to phone every day or every other day), dodging or giving vague answers to questions, some moments of sarcasm  (not too many as he knows if he gets too angry I'll be gone for good), disappearing when I text "I need you."

I am 43, he is 60 - at his age I wonder if there is any hope at all...  Sometimes I just hate  him and feel like he's a manipulator.   Other times I see him working hard to be transparent and improve himself.  But my feelings have to count, I need to be cared for too.  I want to live togetherness and shared activities, but with him it seems like it may never come.  

Lost, and I'm probably going to get labeled codependent.  I make friends super easy, that's not a problem.  But I cannot date just anyone, my circumstances preclude that.  My parents are totally dysfunctional and unhealthy, so I'm alone in the world.  I have a brother who only cares about his own nuclear family, and my friends all vanish once they get boyfriends.  I will admit, I am deeply terrified of going back to being alone, full of  dread.  Meeting my boyfriend was a godsend, he is traveled, loves the arts, admires what I do with my life, just seemed what I had been waiting for.  But now it seems like all that goes away and he just drowns in problems and excuses ALL the time.

I was single from age 28 to age 41. That is no small feat.  I did all the things that strong people do... be happy with you, love yourself, pursue your passions, travel the world, I did it all.  But the thought of going back to being  a stigmatized single 40+ woman who can't even go on an adventure vacation without some married woman calling me "brave" makes me want to "die."  I  want a family.  Need help

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Las1604]

Hi Whit, I'm new as well - before DBT, he would have to get diagnosed with BPD... my ex-girlfriend was in and out of psych wards numerous times before they finally had her pegged as BPD; prior they thought she had bipolar disorder.

So first step would be to get a referral to a psychiatrist from his family doctor, and he would need numerous visits with that person to come up with a diagnosis; I'm sorry you're both older, it definitely makes it harder, especially if he's a workaholic and is over stressed with work.

[pursuingJoy]

WH welcome to BPD family! I know you're going through a lot but I'm glad you're here.   A lot of us are struggling with the same dynamics and questions.

I'm fairly new to this concept of BPD, so not yet the success story that you want to hear from, but I'm walking with you so I thought I'd chime in. The articles I keep coming back to as a beginner are Don't Be Invalidating and Wisemind.

I'm currently reading Walking on Eggshells and chapters 5-7 were the most helpful. Chapter 5 is all about making changes within yourself, chapter 6 is about understanding your situation and setting boundaries, and chapter 7 is about asserting your needs with confidence and clarity.

I never should have carried more than my 50%.  I don’t want to do it anymore or engage  when his Pain is in control of his actions.

This is a critical point to get to!   WOE talks about mirroring their feelings, not absorbing them..."stop sponging and start reflecting." My H is angry with me that I'm not smoothing things over (ie, pretending like nothing is wrong) with his BPD mom. I can acknowledge that it bothers him, I can even express empathy, but I don't have to feel his feelings for him. I can and do feel differently.  

The examples you shared are all tied together with one thing: your needs aren't being met. If that is the case, do you think it would be helpful to think through when and how you assert your needs? We can't control his emotions or behavior, but I've learned there are better ways to approach conversations that improve our chances of being heard.

I also want him to get into the CORRECT therapy straight away - I guess that would be DBT in Chicago?  Where exactly?  He knows he has problems, but I do not think he realizes it is BPD.  Can I get him into the right therapy without making him feel stigmatized?

Not at all trying to tell you what to do, but I've been advised to take it easy with recommendations for individual therapy with my H. I wish I could share this suggestion and he would accept it as a loving, non-threatening gesture but unfortunately that's not usually how it plays out. Realizations come in layers for all of us, so the fact that he can sense something is wrong is a start. Is he open to any kind of T? Are you seeking T?

I firmly believe there is hope, regardless of age! We can always learn something new. 
pj

[Whit Huntington]

@pursuingJoy, PJ, this is great, it felt GREAT to read this, thank you so much.  If he and I do continue, I do think those 2 articles are ones I can learn from, and I will run them through my mind and practice with friends.

I also will buy  WOE  and look at those chapters.  I am very good  at empathizing with his feelings, he hardly ever has reason to be mad at me.

What causes problems is that he doesn't live up to promises he makes me.  So that's what I need most immediate help with.   I found an article that well captures the problems of HOW he does not follow through, and  I specifically don't know how  to respond:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/rediscovering-love/201706/when-promises-become-lies?amp

Points 2 and 3 were spot on, but I actually think points 4 and  5 may play a bigger role than I realized.  Also  6 possibly.  So the help  I need right now to keep things from crashing down is how to  react when this happens.  This time, I just told him he has relapsed into the things that broke us last time and that I haven't engaged in all this work just to go back to behaviors that hurt me.

[Whit Huntington]

@PursuingJoy, to answer your points  clearly:
-I will start reflecting  and not  absorbing his feelings  with  good listening  and empathy.
-I was  good at  thinking when to  assert  my needs, but when it is long distance, it becomes harder.  It's generally hard, because he's a workaholic with a deeply troubled son.  So  there are times when it feels like I can't bring up my needs.  I  would like to know the ways  to  approach  that are more helpful, and I do know that approaching from a loving  place is always beneficial. It's just that  lately, I felt zeroed out  on the love.  I went away beginning of  November and he has been awful about calling, setting aside time to talk, any of that.  He hasn't come to see me during the 2 small windows that  he maybe  could have.  Which hurt.
-He was seeing a therapist, I  don't know if he has continued.   If he brings it up again, should I mention DBT?

[pursuingJoy]

I can see how consistently breaking promises would be so hurtful. I'm glad you're looking to find ways to manage your reaction.

Would it also help to talk through some of the things from the article you shared? For example, if you think #2 is part of it (saying yes, consistently making excuses for not following through, expect intent to be enough, don't want to recognize limitations), what can you do differently next time?

Good question about DBT. I'm not sure there is any harm in suggesting the positive benefits of it as a tool. It sounds like it's successful with people who are committed to improvement.

Have you considering going to therapy together? I can say something at home and my H is dismissive, but when I say the same thing in front of the marriage counselor, he is more likely to listen.

[Whit Huntington]

Do you mean talking through those points with him?   I don't  see how I could without him feeling attacked.

I made an appointment for couples counseling, but I honestly don't know if it will do any good.  Either way I will be at the appointment for therapy for myself.

This past week, he finally arrived back to our city after 3 weeks of stressful travel and wanted to talk about our problems on Monday.  I couldn't that night because of extra work commitments.  He'd assumed I'd be available and said "I don't know what to say, I thought u didn't  work Mondays."  After so much trying with him and SO much work this week, I couldn't engage with such a non-solution, so I just sent a shrug emoji back.  He wrote  "not sure what that means Whit... it seems we can't organize a  good time to talk..."

I felt irritated, because he could suggest... oh  i dunno, a different time/night?  so i didn't answer.  and now i haven't heard from him since.  he may be mad that i didn't answer and trying to teach me a lesson, or he may be getting ready to discard.  i don't know.  it might be a blessing if he leaves me.

[Whit Huntington]

Just to finalize, I broke up with him yesterday, blocked his number.  It's very painful and  I guess I  may move  to  another board.  I just cannot process the circular word salads I get  from him or the avoidance anymore.  He had made progress, but very slow.  He has not surrendered to the facts of his problem and committed to bettering himself.  He has been afraid to lose me but cannot handle disagreements with respect, only avoidance, which hurts too much.  After almost 2 years, I accept there is nothing I can do.

[pursuingJoy]

I'm so sorry I know that must have been a painful decision, Whit.  Big hugs. Was there a final straw that prompted you to make this decision? How are you feeling today?

Do you mean talking through those points with him?   I don't  see how I could without him feeling attacked.

Sorry I didn't respond earlier, I took a few days away from the board. My suggestion was to talk through with us how or if you could respond differently with the goal of having your needs met. I completely understand that talking through those points with him could have ended up with him feeling attacked.

I made an appointment for couples counseling, but I honestly don't know if it will do any good.  Either way I will be at the appointment for therapy for myself.

Is this appointment still on? I encourage you to go! Counseling is a powerful form of self-care. 

[Whit Huntington]

Hi PJ,
Thanks for checking in   There were a few final straws .  He never, ever insulted, verbally abused or tore me down.  He always made me feel beautiful and accomplished and like a light for him.  And he had truly improved his anger problem.  But I  need a light too.  Once I went  to work in Milwaukee, he relapsed to a lot of emotionally manipulative  behaviors, and after ALL the love, respect, guidance, strong support and gifts of belief in him that I had given him, I couldn't accept a full relapse.  The straws were his tendency to vanish when I need him (and clearly state so), and do so in ways that constitute avoidance, stonewalling, silent treatment.  He could also be entitled, snide at times.   

The best thing I did was never react in a reciprocal manner.  Always, without fail, my responses were respectful, validating.  I fully believe respect is the only way, and for our entire 2 years, I never once cracked and went to a level I was not proud of.  I said something sarcastic maybe... once?  And apologized promptly.  Lol, that's quite an accomplishment.  He would vanish in the middle of communicating about something that I said I needed and was of utmost importance - usually how to resolve a problem.  When he would reappear, he wouldn't even acknowledge the issue we'd been discussing, which upset me greatly.  The burden fell to me, and I had to constantly think of delicate ways to bring up issues again and again. 

I feel like I've been fully drained by an emotional vampire.  That says a lot, given that I've been informed I'm a massive empath, probably too much so.  I have no  effs left to give for anyone right now (not true).  He used his stresses to push me away, rather than pull me in. It would be fine if he would call and remain loving at least, but I am not allowed to even exist during these times.  He has very severe fear of engulfment. 

I am not going back.  I will always love him, truly, but he will not make himself well if I stay with him, and I will lose my peace of mind, one that I fought very hard for.  I'm not willing to lose it.  I would call some of the things he did co-morbid narcissism too.

I'll end on a positive note, he was very loving and appreciative of me for much of our time together.  He knew I was a safe place for him, he made that clear.  And during one of our last conversations, he gave me the greatest gift of our relationship.  We had finished discussing the relapse into lack of phone calls and quality time, and he'd promised to  get back on board (he didn't).  And I just asked if he could just say one specific thing he valued about me, but please not that I was beautiful or sweet.  He answered easily, "You have an integrity that I really thought was gone in the world."  I immediately knew this was something that he'd realized during the 4 months after our first break up when I'd refused to respond to him.  And I knew it was the heart and should of why he came humbly and asked for me back - not because of superficial things, he came back because of that, and he'd grown ever more sure of it during the process of resuming the relationship - because I was clear and respectful about my boundaries.

Now I am fruitlessly searching for group therapy in Chicago to support myself through recovery.  I want a  group of similar women with similar values who have survived the same thing.  I hope I will find it, the internet is of no help so far.  Wish me luck.  I hope your situation turns out better than mine, you have been a huge help to me so I can say  I believe you deserve to be happy!

[Whit Huntington]

ps  yes, I'm still going to the appointment   she might be able to find me a group therapy that  is suitable as well.