Is intense attraction a trigger for BPD?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I see a lot posts about wondering how someone with BPD has moved on and been married for a number of years, and I thought I'd share my experience and get some feedback.

I married young, but I remember being crazy in two of my four relationships from 15-20. Jealous, attention seeking, easily hurt, manipulating, ultimatums etc. When I met my husband I  was amazed that there was none of that. I was the person I always wanted to be, naturally. He just brought it out in me. I was never possessive, nothing he said ever hurt me, I didn't feel jealous, we didn't argue or yell, ever. I've always just figured that was the difference between immature and mature love, that I'd met the right person and we clicked well, etc. I knew he liked me as well as loved me, and vice versa, which was NOT true of my teenage boyfriends who I felt LOVED me but didn't LIKE me. And for nine years it was like that, so, so easy. Such an easy marriage, such a team. But I wasn't particularly attracted to him. I didn't find him unattractive, sex was good, etc, but if someone were to have asked me who loved whom more... . I would have had to admit he loved me more.

Until I met my ex, to whom I was mind blowingly attracted. I shared that observation with her and she shared something similar. When she first got sober she dated a girl that she was friends with but not attracted to, and their relationship was the only healthy one she'd ever been in. She said there was no drama and no abuse because she always knew that she was the most important person in her girlfriend's life, she never felt insecure. Ultimately though, she broke up with her because she just couldn't live without that passion.

Our relationship wasn't abusive or possessive either, but we both felt those reactive urges or gut feelings. We talked about how we were too grown up for that and worked through it without acting on them, typically. I once sent her an article that was making the facebook rounds about how people shouldn't be scared of dating the person they are most attracted to, because those emotions that we identify as negative (anger, hurt, jealousy--ego, essentially) need to be brought to the surface so that we can identify and overcome them. So these relationships can be beneficial ultimately because we refine ourselves.

What I'm wondering is if BPDs in successful long-term relationships or marriages choose partners who offer comfort vs. passion, which the BPD is not emotionally equipped to handle. The BPD can't be objective and compassionate towards herself/himself and recognize flaws or reactions that may be illogical and need to be changed, so they rage or lash out.

I also think that strong attraction makes the fear of rejection SO much more acute, for anyone. A BPD, like an adolescent or very young adult, can't stand being that vulnerable. So they ultimately choose partners who offer emotional security and make them feel stable and safe.

Just food for thought. So for those of you who wonder what's wrong with you because your ex has seemingly gone on to be a perfectly normal, functional adult with a healthy marriage and children----you were just too sexy for your shirt     

[pinkparchment]

I see a lot posts about wondering how someone with BPD has moved on and been married for a number of years, and I thought I'd share my experience and get some feedback.

I married young, but I remember being crazy in two of my four relationships from 15-20. Jealous, attention seeking, easily hurt, manipulating, ultimatums etc. When I met my husband I  was amazed that there was none of that. I was the person I always wanted to be, naturally. He just brought it out in me. I was never possessive, nothing he said ever hurt me, I didn't feel jealous, we didn't argue or yell, ever. I've always just figured that was the difference between immature and mature love, that I'd met the right person and we clicked well, etc. I knew he liked me as well as loved me, and vice versa, which was NOT true of my teenage boyfriends who I felt LOVED me but didn't LIKE me. And for nine years it was like that, so, so easy. Such an easy marriage, such a team. But I wasn't particularly attracted to him. I didn't find him unattractive, sex was good, etc, but if someone were to have asked me who loved whom more... . I would have had to admit he loved me more.

Until I met my ex, to whom I was mind blowingly attracted. I shared that observation with her and she shared something similar. When she first got sober she dated a girl that she was friends with but not attracted to, and their relationship was the only healthy one she'd ever been in. She said there was no drama and no abuse because she always knew that she was the most important person in her girlfriend's life, she never felt insecure. Ultimately though, she broke up with her because she just couldn't live without that passion.

Our relationship wasn't abusive or possessive either, but we both felt those reactive urges or gut feelings. We talked about how we were too grown up for that and worked through it without acting on them, typically. I once sent her an article that was making the facebook rounds about how people shouldn't be scared of dating the person they are most attracted to, because those emotions that we identify as negative (anger, hurt, jealousy--ego, essentially) need to be brought to the surface so that we can identify and overcome them. So these relationships can be beneficial ultimately because we refine ourselves.

What I'm wondering is if BPDs in successful long-term relationships or marriages choose partners who offer comfort vs. passion, which the BPD is not emotionally equipped to handle. The BPD can't be objective and compassionate towards herself/himself and recognize flaws or reactions that may be illogical and need to be changed, so they rage or lash out.

I also think that strong attraction makes the fear of rejection SO much more acute, for anyone. A BPD, like an adolescent or very young adult, can't stand being that vulnerable. So they ultimately choose partners who offer emotional security and make them feel stable and safe.

Just food for thought. So for those of you who wonder what's wrong with you because your ex has seemingly gone on to be a perfectly normal, functional adult with a healthy marriage and children----you were just too sexy for your shirt     

[DownandOut]

What I'm wondering is if BPDs in successful long-term relationships or marriages choose partners who offer comfort vs. passion, which the BPD is not emotionally equipped to handle. The BPD can't be objective and compassionate towards herself/himself and recognize flaws or reactions that may be illogical and need to be changed, so they rage or lash out.

I also think that strong attraction makes the fear of rejection SO much more acute, for anyone. A BPD, like an adolescent or very young adult, can't stand being that vulnerable. So they ultimately choose partners who offer emotional security and make them feel stable and safe.

I posted a couple of weeks ago about discovering my uBPDexgf's r/s with my replacement has now lasted 7+ months and how I was completely distraught over that. The thought that I went through 3 recycles with my ex and they all lasted no more than 4 months was very distressing. You do make a good point though. I'm not sure what kind of personality my replacement has, but I do know he's an average looking guy - nothing special. I'm not going to say that I'm the best looking guy around, but my ex seemed to be very jealous of my personality and how I was friends with a lot of girls that I grew up with. I can honestly say that I'm not physically attracted to any of them I've just known them my whole life and are part of my group of friends. However, my ex thought they were all potential replacements for her and she was always so insecure about it. If the female waitress was nice to me at a restaurant and I was nice back, or made a funny comment (my personality), she would always tell me I was a flirt and that I was making her look stupid. I'm seriously just a friendly guy - at least before I met her.

Also, the last part of our r/s was LD and I think the fact that she had no control over where I was and who I was with drove her away from me. Of course everyone wants to be secure in their r/s, but at some point you have to have faith that the person you're with wouldn't hurt you - and I was one of those people that wouldn't. Nevertheless, she would go crazy if she knew I was out with friends and she would text me every minute of those nights to have full conversations as if to distract me from what I was doing and make sure she stayed present in my life.

To your point, I think all of these external circumstances made it extremely difficult for her and she finally couldn't handle it anymore. I'd like to believe that this new guy has zero life of his own and has given up everything to pour his proverbial water into her bottomless bucket and taht's why they've lasted so long.

I just hope that if they do have kids, they could tell the story of how they met and she could admit to her children that she cheated on her b/f at the time, whom she was madly in love with, so that she could be with their father.  That would be a great story for the children.

[Fool for Love]

What I'm wondering is if BPDs in successful long-term relationships or marriages choose partners who offer comfort vs. passion, which the BPD is not emotionally equipped to handle. The BPD can't be objective and compassionate towards herself/himself and recognize flaws or reactions that may be illogical and need to be changed, so they rage or lash out.

I also think that strong attraction makes the fear of rejection SO much more acute, for anyone. A BPD, like an adolescent or very young adult, can't stand being that vulnerable. So they ultimately choose partners who offer emotional security and make them feel stable and safe.

I posted a couple of weeks ago about discovering my uBPDexgf's r/s with my replacement has now lasted 7+ months and how I was completely distraught over that. The thought that I went through 3 recycles with my ex and they all lasted no more than 4 months was very distressing. You do make a good point though. I'm not sure what kind of personality my replacement has, but I do know he's an average looking guy - nothing special. I'm not going to say that I'm the best looking guy around, but my ex seemed to be very jealous of my personality and how I was friends with a lot of girls that I grew up with. I can honestly say that I'm not physically attracted to any of them I've just known them my whole life and are part of my group of friends. However, my ex thought they were all potential replacements for her and she was always so insecure about it. If the female waitress was nice to me at a restaurant and I was nice back, or made a funny comment (my personality), she would always tell me I was a flirt and that I was making her look stupid. I'm seriously just a friendly guy - at least before I met her.

Also, the last part of our r/s was LD and I think the fact that she had no control over where I was and who I was with drove her away from me. Of course everyone wants to be secure in their r/s, but at some point you have to have faith that the person you're with wouldn't hurt you - and I was one of those people that wouldn't. Nevertheless, she would go crazy if she knew I was out with friends and she would text me every minute of those nights to have full conversations as if to distract me from what I was doing and make sure she stayed present in my life.

To your point, I think all of these external circumstances made it extremely difficult for her and she finally couldn't handle it anymore. I'd like to believe that this new guy has zero life of his own and has given up everything to pour his proverbial water into her bottomless bucket and taht's why they've lasted so long.

I just hope that if they do have kids, they could tell the story of how they met and she could admit to her children that she cheated on her b/f at the time, whom she was madly in love with, so that she could be with their father.  That would be a great story for the children.

The things I highlighting in black just amaze me... you story is right on to mine... friends, family anything that didnt involve her she would go nuts !

I can honestly say that my BPDEXG last husband was not a looker... she lasted a long time with him... and my replacement is shorter and bad teeth ... I will admit ... I am a good looking guy not trying to be big headed ... I take care of myself very well. Here jealousy was bad... and when I had to talk to my ex wife about our son she would go stupid... always "thought" I would go back to her... I have a mutual friend that knows the replacement ... she says he is quite, clingy and will be up her butt 24/7 ... where as I as my own person believed that we should be able to have our friends and hobbies... I am an individual and I need that... but she couldn't understand that at all...   But I loved her more than anything,, and spent a lot of time with her... but it was never enough...    

[Popcorn71]

I think you may have a good point here.

My exBPDh was much older than me and not attractive at all.  I believe he enjoyed being seen with me and thought it made him look good being able to get a much younger, attractive wife.  He was very jealous of any attention I got from other men and even made snide comments, almost accusing me of having affairs with workmen that came to the house when he wasn't here.  Of course, he always tried to say he was only joking but I really think he was very insecure and thought I would leave him for somebody else as his ex wife had done.

We eventually split up because he said he wanted to end our relationship and I immediately filed for divorce.  He had a replacement within days (if not before) and admitted that this was because he didn't want to be alone.  The replacement is not likely to go off with another man due to her culture (it would be difficult for her to meet anyone other than family).  Perhaps he feels more secure with her, even though he should have known (and always told me that he knew) that he could trust me.

It's unbelievable that he has done to me (gone off with somebody else) what he feared I would do to him.  The fact was, that I would never have done that to him as I was totally devoted to him, so he threw away the one thing he claimed to want - a faithful, loving wife!

[Fool for Love]

It's unbelievable that he has done to me (gone off with somebody else) what he feared I would do to him.  The fact was, that I would never have done that to him as I was totally devoted to him, so he threw away the one thing he claimed to want - a faithful, loving wife!

I know what you mean... she accused me all the time of "doing something" , flirting on FB ... when in turn... she flirted on FB and found my replacement before even breaking it off with me...  

[fuzz]

Pinkparchment, a very timely post for me, have been wondering about that myself the last few days.  And your last line raised a smile!

DownandOut, I could have written the same as you have about my ex, he was very jealous of me, my personality,  I am just a friendly person too,  reasonable looking (!)  but the number of times I have had to reassure him that I am not going anywhere.  This made me question myself, but no, I am not a bad person,  nor a flirt, always been loyal,  i just wasnt allowed to be me.  The same stories, too, as not liking me going out with even my female friends . 

I really can't believe they can just change personality with the next person.  So I think that in some form or another, the length of the r/s depends on the so.   (I should have ended it in month 1 !)

[fuzz]

I think you may have a good point here.

My exBPDh was much older than me and not attractive at all.  I believe he enjoyed being seen with me and thought it made him look good being able to get a much younger, attractive wife.  He was very jealous of any attention I got from other men and even made snide comments, almost accusing me of having affairs with workmen that came to the house when he wasn't here.  Of course, he always tried to say he was only joking but I really think he was very insecure and thought I would leave him for somebody else as his ex wife had done.


Oh my goodness - I could have written this word for word. 

[fuzz]

Except we were not married

[caughtnreleased]

What I'm wondering is if BPDs in successful long-term relationships or marriages choose partners who offer comfort vs. passion, which the BPD is not emotionally equipped to handle. The BPD can't be objective and compassionate towards herself/himself and recognize flaws or reactions that may be illogical and need to be changed, so they rage or lash out.

I also think that strong attraction makes the fear of rejection SO much more acute, for anyone. A BPD, like an adolescent or very young adult, can't stand being that vulnerable. So they ultimately choose partners who offer emotional security and make them feel stable and safe.

I posted a couple of weeks ago about discovering my uBPDexgf's r/s with my replacement has now lasted 7+ months and how I was completely distraught over that. The thought that I went through 3 recycles with my ex and they all lasted no more than 4 months was very distressing. You do make a good point though. I'm not sure what kind of personality my replacement has, but I do know he's an average looking guy - nothing special. I'm not going to say that I'm the best looking guy around, but my ex seemed to be very jealous of my personality and how I was friends with a lot of girls that I grew up with. I can honestly say that I'm not physically attracted to any of them I've just known them my whole life and are part of my group of friends. However, my ex thought they were all potential replacements for her and she was always so insecure about it. If the female waitress was nice to me at a restaurant and I was nice back, or made a funny comment (my personality), she would always tell me I was a flirt and that I was making her look stupid. I'm seriously just a friendly guy - at least before I met her.

Also, the last part of our r/s was LD and I think the fact that she had no control over where I was and who I was with drove her away from me. Of course everyone wants to be secure in their r/s, but at some point you have to have faith that the person you're with wouldn't hurt you - and I was one of those people that wouldn't. Nevertheless, she would go crazy if she knew I was out with friends and she would text me every minute of those nights to have full conversations as if to distract me from what I was doing and make sure she stayed present in my life.

To your point, I think all of these external circumstances made it extremely difficult for her and she finally couldn't handle it anymore. I'd like to believe that this new guy has zero life of his own and has given up everything to pour his proverbial water into her bottomless bucket and taht's why they've lasted so long.

I just hope that if they do have kids, they could tell the story of how they met and she could admit to her children that she cheated on her b/f at the time, whom she was madly in love with, so that she could be with their father.  That would be a great story for the children.

The things I highlighting in black just amaze me... you story is right on to mine... friends, family anything that didnt involve her she would go nuts !

I can honestly say that my BPDEXG last husband was not a looker... she lasted a long time with him... and my replacement is shorter and bad teeth ... I will admit ... I am a good looking guy not trying to be big headed ... I take care of myself very well. Here jealousy was bad... and when I had to talk to my ex wife about our son she would go stupid... always "thought" I would go back to her... I have a mutual friend that knows the replacement ... she says he is quite, clingy and will be up her butt 24/7 ... where as I as my own person believed that we should be able to have our friends and hobbies... I am an individual and I need that... but she couldn't understand that at all...   But I loved her more than anything,, and spent a lot of time with her... but it was never enough...    

hmm this is very interesting. I was SHOCKED, SHOCKED when I discovered my ex lasted about a year with my replacement.  From the nature of our relationship, it was so unstable, full of jealousy (on the second night we spent together he betrayed a flicker of INTENSE jealousy because I played a team sport!), by the third week he was cutting himself... . it was so volatile I couldn't understand how someone like that could maintain a relationship for longer than a month... . well I think here we are answering our own questions: CONTROL.  The attraction I had with him was mind blowingly intense but he didn't control me and when he resorted to cutting and talking about suicide (the ultimate resort to manipulation and control in my opinion), I ended it. If I may say so myself... . we are both rather good looking people - although he really was a stunner.  The replacement was ok, but nothing particularly sexy. My ex was the better looking of the two by far... . that immediately gives him LOTS of control.  I now see him befriending fashion models on social network and liking all the photos of them in bikinis... . probably some cruel jab at her.  He did this when I broke it off with him... . befriending actresses and telling me how beautiful he thought they were... . it was pathetically transparent, and thank goodness I saw it for what it was - desperation.  Oh how sick he is... . but mostly, what a feeding ground social networks are for sick people like him.  I think the "normal" world is slowly going to retreat from social networks, and leave the narcs and BPDers to eat themselves alive.

[Happy1]

Mine moved around between a ton of guys while we were involved. Both old boyfriends and then some new ones, trying to triangulate us while denying all the time that "we" had a relationship. She liked to refer to our relationship as only as a " special friendship". Though to me it was a legitimate relationship with a troubled person. She'd constantly deny sex too, saying that she simply wasn't attracted to me like the others. Though we did sleep together. In reflection now, I can see that she was always trying to put me down to trigger me to stay, just for the reward that she might dole out. Classic push/pull.

When things were coming to an end after nearly 3 yrs and countless recycles on both parts, she told me about a guy she was working with saying to her, "You're so cool. I'm going to marry you one day." Well, as you can figure, "bingo" this is the guy she's been with for over 25 yrs.

Like others I was jealous at first and for a long time afterwards. I wondered, "how'd she make that one work?" and "why him?" First of all, he wasn't a bad looking guy, but a fairly popular guy. People seemed to like him around our sphere of related friends. So, he was safe. Secondly, he was younger. At our age then (early 20s) I think that also made her feel more in control too (I was two yrs. her senior). Thirdly, he fit her new narrative better. He was a popular guy who attended the same high school some years before and she had been a three year varsity cheerleader there. So, her involvement with him could fit a nice neat narrative, "The two 'popular' kids from different grades meet in her last term at college miraculously, fall in love, and live happily ever after. It was destiny…" None of her so called high school and college soroity friends would think anything different (she could massacred this whole scenario in her narrative), etc. Meanwhile, all the tumultuous relationships she had over the other collegiate years could be chalked up to her meeting and being with screwed up men.

With the narrative neatly tied up, she could also go to work on the other part of her fantasy/plan. She would be graduating and leaving school to live and work at her dream location, southern New England (we were in Nebraska). All she needed was to love bomb him hard enough in the last 60-90 days before that happened to hook him. I was dying on the vine after years of chaos so, again, this could work for her. She did just that and this guy followed her to where she lived in New England, got a pretty decent job and the two "set up shop".

It all sounds and appears so wonderful. However, I've wondered over the years, "how many times has she or did she cheat on him before or after he got there?" There's no way she could be alone for more than 24-48 hrs. At least not when I knew her. Her abandonment triggers were huge. When triggered she was likely going to jump in bed with anyone to quell the fear.

She's tried to recycle me a couple of times, but the distance is my savings grace, both in time and proximity. From others that I know as mutual friends, I know that she's been successful in at least staying in touch with about half of the other suitors she had from our sphere over the years as friends on social media, etc.

So for me and what I know about this one exuBPD girlfriend, I'd have to say "attraction" comes in many forms. I do believe that she was physically attracted to some individuals more than others, but attracted to her ability to control the other person is a huge deal. She literally "owns" this guy and his big asset is one of coming from the "right" former social scene or clik to help her feel secure in her other secondary relationships and her own sense of her "personal story" that reinforces her own sense of identity as her whole life has been about her control of being able to construct a story or identity for herself. A "narrative" if you will. Her husband and her long term attachment to him, works much better for her than I ever would have for that purpose.

From my perspective, he was "whipped" early at the thought of saving a woman whom also fit his social strata that had been an object in many troubled relationships. So, he's the "knight in shining armor" paramour-guy. That has to be a big charge for him too (maybe not so much today, but at least 25 yrs. ago). Also, he's likely codependent, not willing to admit or aware enough to admit he's been involved for many years now with a troubled individual. God, only knows what she's put him through, even if she might have been calmer, more stable, and on her "best behavior."

The moral is, "they've made it work". I wasn't able to do that and that's okay too. If she's at least a little happier and calmer, then "good for her (and him)."

What's been important for me over the years has been to be able to learn about BPD, to unlearn my pain and accept that that was a very toxic relationship for me, then to really analyze and to understand this terribly confusing person I was so affected by from afar to gain greater insight about what happened to me in that relationship, and to be able to now move past much of all of that today.

Also, as you all have probably often heard or read here, don't take images of happiness at face value. All marriage tend to seem to be happy to the outside world. It's what goes on behind those close doors that is the true reality. It's highly likely that how your BPD acted in your relationship is how s/he will be acting with others no matter how long they've been married, how many wonderful children they have, how many wonderful vacations they appear to have, or pictures they post to FB, etc. portray. Accept that this other person you were with was not good for "you" and learn to move on and to find your own TRUE happiness.

[DownandOut]

Mine moved around between a ton of guys while we were involved. Both old boyfriends and then some new ones, trying to triangulate us while denying all the time that "we" had a relationship. She liked to refer to our relationship as only as a " special friendship". Though to me it was a legitimate relationship with a troubled person. She'd constantly deny sex too, saying that she simply wasn't attracted to me like the others. Though we did sleep together. In reflection now, I can see that she was always trying to put me down to trigger me to stay, just for the reward that she might dole out. Classic push/pull.

When things were coming to an end after nearly 3 yrs and countless recycles on both parts, she told me about a guy she was working with saying to her, "You're so cool. I'm going to marry you one day." Well, as you can figure, "bingo" this is the guy she's been with for over 25 yrs.

Like others I was jealous at first and for a long time afterwards. I wondered, "how'd she make that one work?" and "why him?" First of all, he wasn't a bad looking guy, but a fairly popular guy. People seemed to like him around our sphere of related friends. So, he was safe. Secondly, he was younger. At our age then (early 20s) I think that also made her feel more in control too (I was two yrs. her senior). Thirdly, he fit her new narrative better. He was a popular guy who attended the same high school some years before and she had been a three year varsity cheerleader there. So, her involvement with him could fit a nice neat narrative, "The two 'popular' kids from different grades meet in her last term at college miraculously, fall in love, and live happily ever after. It was destiny…" None of her so called high school and college soroity friends would think anything different (she could massacred this whole scenario in her narrative), etc. Meanwhile, all the tumultuous relationships she had over the other collegiate years could be chalked up to her meeting and being with screwed up men.

With the narrative neatly tied up, she could also go to work on the other part of her fantasy/plan. She would be graduating and leaving school to live and work at her dream location, southern New England (we were in Nebraska). All she needed was to love bomb him hard enough in the last 60-90 days before that happened to hook him. I was dying on the vine after years of chaos so, again, this could work for her. She did just that and this guy followed her to where she lived in New England, got a pretty decent job and the two "set up shop".

It all sounds and appears so wonderful. However, I've wondered over the years, "how many times has she or did she cheat on him before or after he got there?" There's no way she could be alone for more than 24-48 hrs. At least not when I knew her. Her abandonment triggers were huge. When triggered she was likely going to jump in bed with anyone to quell the fear.

She's tried to recycle me a couple of times, but the distance is my savings grace, both in time and proximity. From others that I know as mutual friends, I know that she's been successful in at least staying in touch with about half of the other suitors she had from our sphere over the years as friends on social media, etc.

So for me and what I know about this one exuBPD girlfriend, I'd have to say "attraction" comes in many forms. I do believe that she was physically attracted to some individuals more than others, but attracted to her ability to control the other person is a huge deal. She literally "owns" this guy and his big asset is one of coming from the "right" former social scene or clik to help her feel secure in her other secondary relationships and her own sense of her "personal story" that reinforces her own sense of identity as her whole life has been about her control of being able to construct a story or identity for herself. A "narrative" if you will. Her husband and her long term attachment to him, works much better for her than I ever would have for that purpose.

From my perspective, he was "whipped" early at the thought of saving a woman whom also fit his social strata that had been an object in many troubled relationships. So, he's the "knight in shining armor" paramour-guy. That has to be a big charge for him too (maybe not so much today, but at least 25 yrs. ago). Also, he's likely codependent, not willing to admit or aware enough to admit he's been involved for many years now with a troubled individual. God, only knows what she's put him through, even if she might have been calmer, more stable, and on her "best behavior."

The moral is, "they've made it work". I wasn't able to do that and that's okay too. If she's at least a little happier and calmer, then "good for her (and him)."

What's been important for me over the years has been to be able to learn about BPD, to unlearn my pain and accept that that was a very toxic relationship for me, then to really analyze and to understand this terribly confusing person I was so affected by from afar to gain greater insight about what happened to me in that relationship, and to be able to now move past much of all of that today.

Also, as you all have probably often heard or read here, don't take images of happiness at face value. All marriage tend to seem to be happy to the outside world. It's what goes on behind those close doors that is the true reality. It's highly likely that how your BPD acted in your relationship is how s/he will be acting with others no matter how long they've been married, how many wonderful children they have, how many wonderful vacations they appear to have, or pictures they post to FB, etc. portray. Accept that this other person you were with was not good for "you" and learn to move on and to find your own TRUE happiness.

Thanks for that Happy. That was a very thoughtful post and very helpful to me.

[Happy1]

Down,

It's tough to focus on you at these times. It took me literally years to feel good about myself after this relationship and watching her bounce along so seemingly happily with someone else. For years, in my mind, I'd play out that they were the "ideal" couple that she always claimed they were going to be when we were parting, etc.

That's part of your (our) "illness", if you will, that keeps you and your brain tied to them. One day, that will dissolve for you. You'll be much more realistic about your own self worth and self-esteem and you'll be able to objectively look at that relationship, her issues, your issues and what brought you together, etc. You'll objectively remember the good and the bad (rather than just either one in remorse). You'll be able to smile again, and not even care about her, or them, or if it lasted.

[Happy1]

Down,

You might want to read the following:

www.drjanicecaudill.com/love-addiction.html#4

[Happy1]

For all, regarding "attraction" this is very good:

www.drjanicecaudill.com/love-addiction.html#4

Start at around 16:15 or so.

[DownandOut]

You know, Happy, I've been thinking about your post regarding the narrative of the BPD r/s. I've read that the idealization phase is essentially a fairytale come true in the mind of the pwBPD, then something triggers them, such as flaws being exposed and the perfect r/s they thought they had appears human and realistic again, and they devalue as if the SO is Cinderella at the ball and the clock strikes midnight.

It made me think about one time we were laying in bed and I mentioned that I needed to go brush my teeth ASAP because I had a bad case of morning breath. My uBPDexgf reacted to that comment with disgust, but not in a playful way like "ew sweety that's gross," or something like that. She actually told me that I shouldn't tell her things like that. When considering your comments on narrative, I feel that although it's common for someone to wake up with bad breath in the morning, she couldn't bear to hear that from me because it didn't fit into her perfect narrative, hence her statement that I "shouldn't tell her things like that." I know it seems trivial but I think it's a perfect example of how deluded they are.

[Happy1]

I don't want to hijack this topic, but I do thing Down that attraction does have a lot to do with the idealizations they attempt to create. Look around on this forum, you'll see people talking about how they've noticed BPDs will try and live a fantasy life. One like some they may have read in a book or seen in a movie. Mine often times would project to me that I wanted the kind of r/s or love that only came true in fairy tales or movies. I certainly these days pale in comparison to her. Her life as presented to the public is all picture perfect.

Remember, they're constantly mirroring the other individual, but that they also fear intimacy so, you story holds because she probably saw you as "smudging" her idealization in someway and then it was ruinous for her. Flawed and now not "ideal" any longer. Weird, weird, weird mental stuff for sure. I have a million stories like that just from one r/s with my BPD. It all seemed to be so out of kilter to what I'd experienced, but yet I was so "lost" in her I hung on every word and judgement she passed upon me. That was my illness.

One thing I know for sure about BPDs is that more times than not, they'll do anything they can to ruin or see fault in something. Withhold and objectification come hand-in-hand.

Remember, to them, it's their world and you're just living in it.

[woke up]

This is just an opinion, but an opinion based on observation of my exuBPDgf, researching BPD, and reading many many accounts here and on other websites on the internet.  I believe BPD are love addicts and avoidants.  I recently read a Book called Attached, and my exuBPDgf fell into a rare category of an anxious/avoidant personality attachment style.  During the idealization phase, they are definitely love addicts, however as the non falls in love and wants to move closer, the BPD due to their intamacy issues pulls back.  As a non we chase a bit more, they continue to pull back.  Then, and this happened to me many times, I would pull back out of frustration, then she would chase, once again becoming the addict.  However, I would then reciprocate and she would assume the roll of an avoidant again.  The cycle continues until something breaks it and pushes them over the edge  at that point they start to discard and eventually engage a replacement because they feel the void they thought you could fill ( true love, or at least their version) cannot be filled, so they assume you are not the one.  They move onto the replacement, however, when their needs are not being met, they return to soothe, hence the Charm.  My ExuBPDgf did this a lot.  In fact as recently as a week ago, she sent me a text, and like a fool, I responded, albeit, I was drinking at a bar and not really having my wits about me.  When we talk, it's the same story, consider this, she cheated on me, lied to me, and eventually left me for supposedly the guy she wants, and is likely living with him, however, she tells me, she thinks about me everyday and can't get me out of her mind.  This is when I told her, it's over, and no more ok, live with your poor choices now, the door back to me is closed.  However, every month to about 6 weeks, she attempts contact. 

This clearly proves the push/pull and addict/avoidant cycle that they find themselves in, and by association, we find ourselves in, until we completely move on after our awakening.

[HappyNihilist]

What I'm wondering is if BPDs in successful long-term relationships or marriages choose partners who offer comfort vs. passion, which the BPD is not emotionally equipped to handle. The BPD can't be objective and compassionate towards herself/himself and recognize flaws or reactions that may be illogical and need to be changed, so they rage or lash out.

I also think that strong attraction makes the fear of rejection SO much more acute, for anyone. A BPD, like an adolescent or very young adult, can't stand being that vulnerable. So they ultimately choose partners who offer emotional security and make them feel stable and safe.

My exBPDbf often said that I was so beautiful, he hated for me to even leave the house without him at my side... . that I was out of his league, etc. Plus I'm just a passionate gal. The longest and most successful relationship he's ever had was with a woman whom he acknowledged never triggered any "obsessive" or jealous tendencies in him.

[bungenstein]

Interesting you should I mention this, I posted another thread that was similar:

I hope this doesn't come across as vain, this is just my BPD experience, and trust me it wasn't fulfilling at all. I've been told my whole life I'm a very good looking guy, my exBPD jumped from the guy she was seeing for the last 5 months, to me, as soon an as she met me, (but they weren't in a relationship), he was there at the time she started trying to seduce me. The next day she asked me on a date, I said only if its over with him, she ended it, he messaged me to say she had ended it and warned me of her problems, which I foolishly ignored.

We were quickly into a very intense relationship, without any honeymoon period really, it started intense with all the usual BPD problems rising up immediately, public rages within the first 2 weeks, (the previous guy said he never experienced these rages, I wonder why?), and just got more intense until the end when I couldn't take it anymore. She claimed she fell in love with me at first sight, but I now know it wasn't real love.

She is a very pretty girl but everything she talked about was very superficial, about what she looked like, what I looked like, and what we looked like together. She would endlessly compliment me on how I looked, but never anything else, even in periods I was split to black, she would say the most disgusting things to me, but could say anything bad about my looks. I felt like an object she liked showing off the entire relationship, whoever we were with, she changed the conversation to about what I looked like, whilst it was very nice to doted on like this for 14 months, it we as also embarrassing and left me feeling empty that that was all it seemed to be about, she never really cared or got my passions and interests.

Eventually I tricked her into getting her out of my house, she then tried very hard to get back with me for the next month, until she deliberately tried to crash a night out with my friends, and she text me that she was with them. I then asked her to go away and leave me alone, and I went somewhere else, after that incident I have been painted the blackest of the black, and she did the usual going on the rebound, shoving it down my throat, lots of abuse, etc.

The question I'm asking is, do BPD's value looks more than anything, to boost their self worth, and the only reason she didn't leave me was because she didn't find anyone she considered better looking, ie more value, but as soon as she did, I bet she would have.

Another thing I should mention, her mirroring was in that she always tried to look the same as me, she would make sure we were wearing the same colours, she would use fake tan so our complexion was the same, she even thought about dyeing her hair a bit darker so that we would have exactly the same hair colour, we did already look pretty similar, people either used to asked if were married, or if we were brother and sister, maybe she saw in me, superficially, a male version of her, and that gave her identity?

The abandonment fears were rife right from the word go, she even split me black briefly on the very day that I met her. She would threaten to break up with me all the time, saying she couldn't take the way she felt, she didn't want to feel this way, and would rather be with someone she didn't care about because she could handle and wouldn't behave in this way. Everytime it ended in me trying to leave, with her throwing herself infront of the door in tears begging me not to.

She used to say she was too in love with me, and I was too good looking, she constantly asked her friends if they thought I was better looking than her, to which I've never thought. If I were not joined at her hip she would be worried, non stop. She has chased me around houses, towns, trains, festivals, weddings, when ever she gets the slightest incling I may have looked at or talked to any semi attractive girl.

She said I actually amplified her instability and insecurity, she always said she'd rather be with someone who made her feel stable. She said she was more relaxed when I wasn't around, and would get extremely nervous during sex, she claims only with me. She must have seen values she wanted for herself, mirrored me and was completely uncomfortable with them at the same time.

I dumped her and has now downgraded in my opinion, I asked if she fell in love with him at first sight like she did with me, she said no, she liked that he was obsessed with her.

[Ritchie53]

What I'm wondering is if BPDs in successful long-term relationships or marriages choose partners who offer comfort vs. passion, which the BPD is not emotionally equipped to handle. The BPD can't be objective and compassionate towards herself/himself and recognize flaws or reactions that may be illogical and need to be changed, so they rage or lash out.

I also think that strong attraction makes the fear of rejection SO much more acute, for anyone. A BPD, like an adolescent or very young adult, can't stand being that vulnerable. So they ultimately choose partners who offer emotional security and make them feel stable and safe.

I posted a couple of weeks ago about discovering my uBPDexgf's r/s with my replacement has now lasted 7+ months and how I was completely distraught over that. The thought that I went through 3 recycles with my ex and they all lasted no more than 4 months was very distressing. You do make a good point though. I'm not sure what kind of personality my replacement has, but I do know he's an average looking guy - nothing special. I'm not going to say that I'm the best looking guy around, but my ex seemed to be very jealous of my personality and how I was friends with a lot of girls that I grew up with. I can honestly say that I'm not physically attracted to any of them I've just known them my whole life and are part of my group of friends. However, my ex thought they were all potential replacements for her and she was always so insecure about it. If the female waitress was nice to me at a restaurant and I was nice back, or made a funny comment (my personality), she would always tell me I was a flirt and that I was making her look stupid. I'm seriously just a friendly guy - at least before I met her.

Also, the last part of our r/s was LD and I think the fact that she had no control over where I was and who I was with drove her away from me. Of course everyone wants to be secure in their r/s, but at some point you have to have faith that the person you're with wouldn't hurt you - and I was one of those people that wouldn't. Nevertheless, she would go crazy if she knew I was out with friends and she would text me every minute of those nights to have full conversations as if to distract me from what I was doing and make sure she stayed present in my life.

To your point, I think all of these external circumstances made it extremely difficult for her and she finally couldn't handle it anymore. I'd like to believe that this new guy has zero life of his own and has given up everything to pour his proverbial water into her bottomless bucket and taht's why they've lasted so long.

I just hope that if they do have kids, they could tell the story of how they met and she could admit to her children that she cheated on her b/f at the time, whom she was madly in love with, so that she could be with their father.  That would be a great story for the children.

This is almost to a tee what happened to me, she would make comments of how I was a free spirit, needed my balls removed so I became 'domesticated' like her two little male dogs. I should of picked up on the signs of that . But yes I was the better looking of the two of us, and on extinction day she said she had never felt so ugly as when she was with me. That hurt so much as my replacement, her once abusive, cheating ex, is absolutely golden and everyone says how sweet they are together etc, and will probably last a very long time. Sad as it is, and remembering BPD is all about them and their feelings I am desperately trying to rescript her comment of 'never felt so ugly' as 'you are the best looking man I have dated' - still hurts because I loved (and still do a bit) her to pieces. Sad, sad times, 1 week short of 7 months and hoping the pain will disappear soon.

[Ritchie53]

Another thing I should mention, her mirroring was in that she always tried to look the same as me, she would make sure we were wearing the same colours, she would use fake tan so our complexion was the same, she even thought about dyeing her hair a bit darker so that we would have exactly the same hair colour, we did already look pretty similar, people either used to asked if were married, or if we were brother and sister, maybe she saw in me, superficially, a male version of her, and that gave her identity?

And this is even scarier stuff. She did the same thing, tanned every night, darkened her hair, took up my eating habits, dieting etc (I do body physique comps and am a male dancer (ballroom) as a hobby). She went very thin during our realtionship because she thought or saw that I saw that attractive. Interestingly with my replacement she has put on weight, no longer wears high heels (he is quite short) and does not wear as thick set makeup. During our relationship someone classed as as dark headed 'Posh and Becks' of our town - a good compliment you would think, however, the time it took her to get ready was at times infuriating, even to go to the supermarket. Again, sad times.

[bungenstein]

This is almost to a tee what happened to me, she would make comments of how I was a free spirit, needed my balls removed so I became 'domesticated' like her two little male dogs. I should of picked up on the signs of that . But yes I was the better looking of the two of us, and on extinction day she said she had never felt so ugly as when she was with me. That hurt so much as my replacement, her once abusive, cheating ex, is absolutely golden and everyone says how sweet they are together etc, and will probably last a very long time. Sad as it is, and remembering BPD is all about them and their feelings I am desperately trying to rescript her comment of 'never felt so ugly' as 'you are the best looking man I have dated' - still hurts because I loved (and still do a bit) her to pieces. Sad, sad times, 1 week short of 7 months and hoping the pain will disappear soon.

Sounds like we had the exact same relationship.

[tango1492]

Intense attraction is absolutely a trigger for my uBPD ex boyfriend. He flat out admitted many times that our intense connection and passion and sexual fire made him feel super unstable... . the girl he dated for a few months after me was the "least sexual person" he'd ever met. And those were his words. They had zero passion and not much intimacy or attraction. But guess what? He wasn't triggered and was perfectly stable. In fact, he said he thought about marrying her because she would make a good wife. But he ended it. Because he's a conflicted tormented soul who longs for passion and intimacy yet can't handle it when he finds it. It's sad. I question if he'll ever marry and he's closing in on his 40's. If he does marry, I figure it will be a hellish turbulent marriage with lots of passion (like ours was), or he'll settle down and be completely bored and unhappy with someone he has no real intimacy or chemistry with. In either case, it doesn't make for a happy partnership.

[bungenstein]

Intense attraction is absolutely a trigger for my uBPD ex boyfriend. He flat out admitted many times that our intense connection and passion and sexual fire made him feel super unstable... . the girl he dated for a few months after me was the "least sexual person" he'd ever met. And those were his words. They had zero passion and not much intimacy or attraction. But guess what? He wasn't triggered and was perfectly stable. In fact, he said he thought about marrying her because she would make a good wife. But he ended it. Because he's a conflicted tormented soul who longs for passion and intimacy yet can't handle it when he finds it. It's sad. I question if he'll ever marry and he's closing in on his 40's. If he does marry, I figure it will be a hellish turbulent marriage with lots of passion (like ours was), or he'll settle down and be completely bored and unhappy with someone he has no real intimacy or chemistry with. In either case, it doesn't make for a happy partnership.

My ex admitted this exact paradox within the first 2 weeks of being together, and not in a nonchalant way, in a screaming I cant take this borderline the world is going to end f*** you kind of way. She quite happily kept a bland relationship going for 3 years until she got bored, then she started seeing guys she didn't care about, for the comfort, without actually getting into a relationship with them, now when she got someone she actually cared about... . BOOM! I spoke to guy she was dating before me, he said, didn't you finnd her infectious, like a femme fatale? I said no, most of the time I felt like was going out with a scared and angry child, I think we had very different experiences with her.

[caughtnreleased]

I've learned so much.  When my ex told me he found someone new, whom he described as "nice", I was sure it wouldn't last more that two months, and it would be a train wreck (because with me, we never even had a honeymoon period... . we had a very immediate, deep and intense connection and attraction... . it felt like we collided and then each broke into a million pieces).  Well to my shock and surprise, he kept it going with the replacement for at least a year maybe more, I've stopped trying to figure it out.  I could not understand it especially since he had demonstrated such intense jealousy for the most minor things with me, but the replacement was posting pictures of herself with other guys and it didn't really seem to have much of an impact on him.  But now I do understand.  What I felt and experienced with him was real, it freaked me out, for sure... . but it freaked him out even more. When we broke up, he turned into a tornado of self destruction.  I'm glad I experienced what I did with him.  It has allowed me to grow immensely.  I'm not sure he was able to reap the same benefits of what we had together.  Too bad for him. He knows he's got BPD.

[tango1492]

caughtnreleased--

I had a similar experience. My ex uBPD boyfriend... . well, we collided too. It was super intense and there was drama and issues crept up almost immediately- a lot of which concerned jealousy and insecurity from him. But we had a strong physical, emotional, intellectual connection, etc. And in spite of the red flags, I was hooked. But there was no perfect honeymoon phase when all was well. It was a struggle from the start. I know a lot of people on here post that pwBPD are incapable of love, but I do believe we loved each other very much. Unfortunately, the issues with BPD are not easily overcome--and he had substance use issues as well. I had to get out. But I loved him and in fact still love him. And if he would have been willing to do intense therapy with me, I'd have stayed and tried.

[bungenstein]

I've learned so much.  When my ex told me he found someone new, whom he described as "nice", I was sure it wouldn't last more that two months, and it would be a train wreck (because with me, we never even had a honeymoon period... . we had a very immediate, deep and intense connection and attraction... . it felt like we collided and then each broke into a million pieces).  Well to my shock and surprise, he kept it going with the replacement for at least a year maybe more, I've stopped trying to figure it out.  I could not understand it especially since he had demonstrated such intense jealousy for the most minor things with me, but the replacement was posting pictures of herself with other guys and it didn't really seem to have much of an impact on him.  But now I do understand.  What I felt and experienced with him was real, it freaked me out, for sure... . but it freaked him out even more. When we broke up, he turned into a tornado of self destruction.  I'm glad I experienced what I did with him.  It has allowed me to grow immensely.  I'm not sure he was able to reap the same benefits of what we had together.  Too bad for him. He knows he's got BPD.

I believe its because they have to have someone, and that someone has to be someone that doesn't make them feel insecure, who will be a door mat and do whatever they want. This isn't love of course, its something they don't really want, but have to have, like a colostomy bag, as soon as they experience someone they really want, and someone they actually 'love', in their minds, that's when all hell breaks lose. So someone who they feel 'easy' with, has more chance of lasting, providing the guy is pathetic, and depending how brave she's feeling, which after breaking up with someone they were really into, and having pure chaos from start to finish, I imagine she's not feeling very brave at all. Again my ex freely admitted all this right when I met her.