Is there hope for my relationship with my (possibly) BPD partner?

[GoodMan]

Not sure if I'm in the right place.
My girlfriend seems to have BPD tendencies. My therapist that used to see us as a couple is getting that impression.

When we met she was diagnosed with Bipolar disorder and had a psychiatrist and was medicated. She eventually stopped the meds and stopped seeing the dr. She was convinced by her family that she is not bipolar.

We have been together for 9 years or so. Early on in our relationship I was a different guy. Hiding my feelings. Talking to exes. Relying on old relationships to hold my emotions to keep new "dangerous" people at bay. Lying about who I was inside to protect myself. Making sure that I spread my emotions around as not to get hurt again by loving only one person.

A few years into our relationship I got caught in that lie and things came out about my personality that I decided to change. I decided to focus 100% of all my emotion on this one person. I decided to love this woman unconditionally and push away all others. I would love only her and focus on only her. She would get all of me and I would no longer parse out my emotion. No longer give it away to protect myself.

We moved in together and started a nice life. I built an amazing relationship with her child. We have her every other week and for the first time in my life I feel like a father (step of course).

I ignored my old ways. I tried to just let these old relationships drift away.  I didn't do a good job quickly pushing all my safety nets away. So it took some time. It took me doing it all wrong till I did it right. It took me seeing how much it hurt her to make the decisive brave move and cut anyone else but her from my life even if it was just someone that I almost never spoke to. They had to go.

When it came out a few years ago that early in our relationship that I wasn't honest it became a blight on our relationship that would not go away. We started therapy together. I started therapy just me as well. I wanted to fix myself. I worked and still am working on becoming a good man. Someone anyone she can trust. I spend time working on the parts of my personality that are triggers for her. My tone of voice. The volume of my voice. Keeping the house neat and as clean as possible. Creating a "safe" environment for her. She says she needs quiet. I try to give her that. I give her space when she needs that. I do everything in my power to make her understand that I have her back and she is my focus.

Two years later we're now caught in a cycle. I am focused on her and our relationship.
But.
She doesn't trust me.
Something triggers her suspicions mostly bizarre scenarios that aren't happening or misunderstandings that a thought of as lies.
We argue.
I am resilient and push past her insults without retaliating. I respond to her anger without my own anger. I accept her calm assertions that I am the cause of all things bad. She brings up old situations.  Things that I admit were wrong and am embarrassed by.  She stalks an ex that I at this point have zero contact with and she accuses me of new things that are not happening.
I no longer defend to the end. I admit that I was wrong and explain that I understand that what I did hurt and I apologize. I explain that I understand why she would think that way because I injured her trust in me but what she is accusing me of is not what happened.
She is convinced that I'm doing things behind her back. But I'm not.
I try to convince her of the truth and we go nowhere because of the lack of trust.
She says that she cant love me. She doesn't know me. She can't seem to remember the good times a few months ago.
She wants to break up.
She actually leaves me.
Up until now I have been able to convince her to stay or come back.
We do well for a while.
Something triggers her and we start again.
I live on eggshells waiting for her to leave.
Waiting to loose my family.
Now she's leaving again.
What do I do? Is there no hope for this relationship? 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

hi Goodman, and

what there is absolutely hope for is getting to stable ground.

it sounds like theres some work to do, but it can be done. youll need a strong support system and feedback, so i hope youll stick around.

its important to know that with BPD traits comes inherent distrust issues. my story is similar in that i did some things that certainly reinforced that distrust. i can tell you that rebuilding it and maintaining it is a big struggle, and an area where i did a lot of things wrong.

youve been in this relationship for nine years. theres a lot invested on both sides. likewise, the problems that youre experiencing now did not develop overnight, and wont be eradicated over night. you will need a long term, big picture approach that works to get both of you on the same page. for example, constant break up/make up cycles only deteriorate the relationship, and the trust, on both sides. you will want to get to a place where that is not seen as the solution, but that enough trust exists to tackle conflict as a team.

a tall order, i know.

empathy is really critical in these relationships. maybe the most important thing. has she communicated what she would like you to do in order to restore trust?

[GoodMan]

Thank you for responding.
In her mind nothing can fix it. She will never trust me.
She has listed many many things that she needed and I have made every attempt to meet each. I have made massive changes from my tone of voice to going to therapy to get to the bottom of what made me "un-trustable". I am family focused and have made her my number one priority.
I'm far from perfect and make many mistakes. Nothing is happening in the background.
She feels like I don't have her back and her "proof" of this is her feelings of past incidents and current misunderstandings and suspicions.
In her mind I am the cause of all her sadness.
In my mind I feel as though I am the only thing she has control over, the only negative thing she can run from. She has a family history of mom running from dad only to return.
My support system, my family and friends at this point feel like the change and work is one sided. She doesn't go to therapy, doesn't make any changes, doesn't even acknowledge there is an issue in her. They feel as if I should let her go for my own safety.
I feel that what a partner of someone with BPD needs is the ability to be stedfast in the wake of all storms but they feel like this will be my whole life. Dealing with insults and accusations and breakups.
Im not sure what to do.

[Ozzie101]

Hi GoodMan! I'd like to join once in welcoming you to the family!

You've certainly been dealing with a lot and most of us here can identify with your journey. The accusations, the distrust, the lashing out -- all very familiar.

There's a lot to unpack here but I have a couple of questions:

I accept her calm assertions that I am the cause of all things bad.

How so? Do you agree with her fully? Or do you just acknowledge her feelings about it? They're two different things.

Also, it sounds like you have done a lot of work on yourself and I applaud that. But, from the way you describe it – and please correct me if I've got it wrong — you're doing work and bending over backwards to accommodate and make her happy.

The thing is, if she doesn't admit she has a problem and doesn't seek therapy or help for herself, you can only do so much. There will always be triggers. If it's not your past, it will be something else. You can fix everything on the list and there will be something new that will pop up.

The way it's been described to me: A pwBPD is like a bucket with a hole in the bottom. You can try to fill the bucket with love, support, kindness, etc., but it will never be full and you will exhaust yourself in the process. But the pwBPD is so desperate and unhappy, they will latch onto you -- their safe place -- as the cause of the problem and will blame you for not "helping." My H did that a LOT.

I don't want it to sound hopeless, though. Things can change and get better. Other members here have had a lot of success.

What if, instead of focusing on how to keep her happy (you always want to keep her feelings in mind, of course), you focused on making yourself stronger? Not for her sake, but for yours (and your stepdaughter's). Would that look any different from what you're already doing?

[GoodMan]

I dont lash out to the statements. I say I understand why you think that but this is what is true or what is happening.

At first I was bending over backwards for her. For the last year or so I have been doing it for me as well. The therapy is helping me greatly and making her comfortable in our relationship is a goal. 

There is no latching that is visible. She is latched to her daughter.

I am definitely focused on growth and strength for me and the people around me. But the leaving is a massive trigger for me. She even admitted she knows its a trigger and attacks it on purpose. 

[Ozzie101]

My H once told me he purposefully attacked weak spots to try to get me to blow up -- which I never did, so he just got more frustrated. He said he felt so angry, he wanted someone else to be angry with him (his version of validation). Thankfully, he now sees how unhealthy that is.

Knowing that she's deliberately using the leaving to trigger you -- does that have an impact on your reaction (internal and external)? Once I knew H was deliberately trying to get a rise out of me, oddly enough, it made it easier for me to stay calm and to get to the heart of things. What he was lashing out about was rarely what he was actually upset over.

That's good that you're not validating the invalid. We don't want to agree with something we know not to be true.

I guess what I meant by "latching" is that they zero in on you as a target -- not that they cling (though that happens a lot, too). Does she turn any of this on her daughter? Or just you?

[GoodMan]

Just me. I am the target. I think that is because its easy. I am sacrifice-able. She spoils her daughter endlessly. So do I.

It does make it easier but the reality of it is that trigger an issue. She looks for apartments and looks at houses. Our accountant let it slip that she needed things from her past tax returns scanned and sent to her and she now let it out that she was approved for a mortgage. Information that I have already figured out.

Her mother spent her relationship with her father leaving and coming back sometimes for years.

Before the holidays we were doing a planned break. Me at the house alone when we didn't have her daughter and her here when we did.

Around Thanksgiving we spent two weeks like we were never apart and it as amazing.

A few weeks later we were breaking up because a misunderstanding made me look dishonest. 

Two weeks ago we were planning vacations and she was asking me if there were earrings to match the neckless I gave her for her birthday.

Yesterday she says we have no relationship, that she doesn't love me and hasn't for a long time. She stalked an exes Facebook and found that I was in the same town as she was for work. I had no idea. 

Today I'm planning on being house poor here alone while morning the loss of my family.

I want to be resilient. How do I respond to the leaving?

[Ozzie101]

PwBPD are often deeply enmeshed with their children. Over-identification. Projection, etc.

Unfortunately, if she's determined to leave, you can't stop her.

The best you can do is take steps to protect yourself emotionally, physically and financially should she decide to go through with it. That may mean working on things with your therapist. Talking to your accountant or financial advisor.

Other members here have been in situations like this, where their partner kept threatening to leave. Sometimes they did leave. Sometimes, it was a bluff.

Often, what people have done is take steps to prepare themselves, then respond to their pwBPD in a loving, but firm way. "If you want to leave, I can't stop you. I want you to stay. I want us to continue to work on our relationship. But I respect your decision." Then you don't help. Don't make it easier for her to find a place to live, move out, etc. In other words, don't rescue or enable. Let her own her decisions and live with the consequences.

It sounds to me like she's deliberately acting on the leaving threats as a way to get a rise out of you and an emotional reaction. Is that working?

Yes, if she does indeed leave, it will hurt you. There will be a mourning process and a lot of healing. But if you react emotionally to her or beg her to stay or allow her to keep playing the game, it's likely to continue. But if you react in a caring but business-like way and don't rescue her, you're kind of tossing the ball back into her court and refusing to play.

[GoodMan]

It does cause my alarms to go off.

I’m a bit of a depressive, medicated, and I’m therapy. I believe it is my responsibility to take care of my self. I stoped blaming others along time ago.

She knows she’s important to me and plays on that.

Does this sound like BPD?

Is there really nothing I can do? Just hold fast and wait to see what happens?

[once removed]

We have been together for 9 years or so. Early on in our relationship I was a different guy. Hiding my feelings. Talking to exes. Relying on old relationships to hold my emotions to keep new "dangerous" people at bay. Lying about who I was inside to protect myself. Making sure that I spread my emotions around as not to get hurt again by loving only one person.

remember that these things occurred at the beginnings of your relationship, a time when the foundation was being laid down.

rebuilding trust is hard. much harder with someone with inherent distrust issues. on some level, there may be or may have been distrust on both sides.

Yesterday she says we have no relationship, that she doesn't love me and hasn't for a long time. She stalked an exes Facebook and found that I was in the same town as she was for work. I had no idea. 

I want to be resilient. How do I respond to the leaving?

people with BPD traits often have very strong initial reactions when it comes to suspicions. is it possible that is what she is doing here? did she mention anything about leaving, or her plans?

[GoodMan]

Understood. I am working on the things that caused me to be that way. The things that make me who I was and am.

She has the same plan as always. She has to stay here with her daughter until she has the ability to leave and she needs to know that there won’t be an issue with that.

This has happened so many times that my support system people are actually tired of hearing it.

[Sandb2015]

Goodman,

I was in a very similar situation, I'm sorry you are going through this.  Many here including myself feel what you are or have felt it.

Trust, suspicion, and paranoia.

These are so hard to get a way from, resolve, gain and overcome to a base that's manageable may blame yourself and say, "I did this or that", therefore she is right.

Please still look at it logically, whatever you did, you made up for with sincerity.  Whatever weaknesses or issues you have, had may have come out in this rs.  Give yourself credit for recognizing them and wanting to better yourself so you can have a better rs.

PwBPD may project endlessly to the point you DO feel everything that you are hearing is a consequence of your actions...haven't you done something about your actions, past behavior?  It seems yes.

Consequences, you know what they are, does she share her own with you?

You can't change what she will or won't do.  You can't create the safest environment for this rs, it takes two.

As the advice was given to you.  You can't stop her, get strong, we know you care so much and there is little you can do, just be strong and learn as much as possible.

[once removed]

Understood. I am working on the things that caused me to be that way. The things that make me who I was and am.

i dont mention it for blame, so much as context and understanding the big picture.

She has the same plan as always. She has to stay here with her daughter until she has the ability to leave and she needs to know that there won’t be an issue with that.

so she has essentially threatened this before, but always says conditions arent right, do i have that right?

what would be the issue with it? whats stopping her?

[GoodMan]

so she has essentially threatened this before, but always says conditions arent right, do i have that right?
what would be the issue with it? whats stopping her?

More or less.
"It would be hard for our daughter"
"Not enough money"
We work it out through conversation or it just seems to slip away.

It been a roller coaster and after reading this board for a bid its been pretty hard on me. Thats selfish I know but its a thought thats just popped in there.

[once removed]

okay.

so it shouldnt be minimized, but perhaps it should be taken with a grain of salt, too. if she were done, shed be done.

i want to circle back a bit...

In her mind I am the cause of all her sadness.

does she actually say this?

the reason i ask is because sometimes what a person (BPD or not) needs most in order to begin to rebuild trust is to really feel heard.

thats not always easy to do, because our partners arent especially great at communicating needs or being vulnerable, they can speak in over the top and exaggerated (or black and white) terms, and when theyre really out of sorts, a whole slew of things can be listed off as "the problem". and sometimes, despite our best intentions, we can be dismissive and invalidating.

this is where, and why, our listening skills and our empathy skills are so invaluable. to be able to understand what our partners are really communicating, to understand where they are coming from and why. once we are able to do that without judgment (even if we disagree or see it differently), problem solving can become much easier. trust can grow, too.

can you have a read of this and share your thoughts both in general, and about what your partner is really saying: https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy

[GoodMan]

She doesn't use those words but there are rants about how I've ruined her life, ruined her daughters life, her family's lives and even the dogs life. She says I made her this way but even in the earliest part of our relationship she was suspicious and jealous.  She would rant about how I didn't take her seriously. None of which is true. I really liked her. I just didn't know how to be the real me. No one ever taught me by the time I got older I had learned that i could just tell people I'm a better me wether it was true or not.

I can say that I'm a bad listener. I have been working to be better at it but I some times get stuck on the surface stuff.

I repeat things often to make sure they are nailed down and I ask for clarity and follow up which she hates and describes as not caring vs me caring so much I don't want to mess things up by doing it wrong or forgetting.

Thank you for sharing the video.

[GoodMan]

We had a good night tonight. We went out with some friends for my birthday. She is an amazing partner.

On the way home I mentioned a friending a story  that I had no idea had the ex in question on his Facebook. I had no idea. She knew by stalking though his friends.

We didn’t fight but the vibe was gone and the anger was there. We’re back to square one. .

I sheepishly had to ask this man to remove the ex. That was humbling but I felt I needed to get rid of the trigger.

Can anyone tell me is all this sounds like BPD?

Or am I such an a$$hole that I deserve this?

[SunandMoon]

No,  you're not an a$$hole, Good Man... these are just very challenging relationships. How are things going now?

We're not psychs so we can't say whether or not she has BPD - although it sounds more like BPD than bipolar!

You mentioned in the beginning that she was diagnosed bipolar and taking meds. Did she change after she stopped taking them?

On the way home I mentioned a friending a story  that I had no idea had the ex in question on his Facebook. I had no idea. She knew by stalking though his friends.

I can't understand this part. I think there's something missing?

Transparency is part of rebuilding trust. Make sure there's nothing on your social media or phone that looks dodgy. Let her see that there's nothing going on when she goes stalking you.

It's a positive sign that she's still with you, despite the threats to leave.

[GoodMan]

I had a relationship that I did not end correctly as our relationship started.

This person is a major trigger for her.

I and my friend had to work in a city where unknown to me this person was also working. The reason she knows this is she stalks this girl even though we agreed that along with my discontinuing contact this stalking has to stop.

I have no contact and haven’t for years.

Because I don’t talk to this person I had no idea she was there. My GF had to dig though all my coworkers social media to find and create an unfounded connection. My only social media is open for her to monitor as she has the access code

This connection is now a trigger. My coworker can now not be trusted and mentioning his name pushed her off the shelf and triggered her. I asked him about it. He as an acceptable and coincidental reason. He has cut off the connection. That was the most humbling man to man conversation I’ve ever had.

I agree it’s positive that she didn’t just get up and leave. But that is still her plan as far as I know.

My people or support system is starting to feel like I’m being used.

I feel lost trying to hold my family together.

[GoodMan]

You mentioned in the beginning that she was diagnosed bipolar and taking meds. Did she change after she stopped taking them.

Yes. Not a 180° spin but slowly and surely she started to show more and more signs of issues.

The worst change was after she found I wasn’t truthful about the early part of our relationship.

The latest change is when she started being treated for PTSD by our therapist. She has no patience. She gets mad about things that seem to scare her. I have a list of how to handle conversations. No standing above her. No talking loudly. (I’m loud by genes) no noisy entrances into rooms. . Anything startling.

It seems to have brought out a ton of fear and sadness.

All of this gets blamed on me as her partner that doesn’t have her back.

I would never hurt her. I love her. She and her daughter are my number one priority.

I go to therapy to find out why I have a tendency to lie. I’m working through tons of bad habits based in my own fear.

Her mother moved out on her father and took the kids several times when she was growing up. That is always her protection move. Run.

I would do anything for this woman. I love her with all my heart.

[Ozzie101]

You really are in a difficult situation. But I applaud you for acknowledging and addressing your own issues. That's a really important step (regardless of how things go with your girlfriend).

The lack of trust and her own BPD issues aren't things that will get better overnight. It takes a lot of time and patience. And the fact that she was taught to run as a coping mechanism -- that's not an easy thing to reverse.

I know what it's like to be blamed for things. I can't tell you how many times my uBPDh would rage at me and accuse me of not having his back -- of not taking his side. He could twist anything and somehow make it my fault. It's incredibly difficult to know how to handle that. Sit there and take it? Argue back? Neither one really works. But setting boundaries and listening with empathy can gradually make a difference.

Out of curiosity, when you say the friend has cut off the connection, do you mean the connection to your previous relationship or the connection to you? What made the conversation humbling?

[GoodMan]

I appreciate that. I’ve been working on it for about two years and sadly feel like I am becoming the best me. So many years wasted on depression and sad ___ty situations.

Out of curiosity, when you say the friend has cut off the connection, do you mean the connection to your previous relationship or the connection to you? What made the conversation humbling?

He removed an ex of mine he had never met though me from his social media. He didn’t even realize she and I were connected in any way

I had to ask another man to look though his social media and cut off contact that he didn’t even know he had with someone for me. That is humbling.

My anxiety is insane. Hearts always pounding face is flush. It’s been a rough few weeks.

[Ozzie101]

I'm sure it is rough for you. I can remember when my H was in his really bad phase (lots of lashing out, emotional and verbal abuse), I would just start trembling. Slightest sign he was even vaguely annoyed with something and I'd start to panic.

As for getting your friends to remove people from their social networks -- is that sort of thing something you find yourself doing often? Going to others to make adjustments to satisfy/pacify your pwBPD? Or running around trying to put out fires and keep her from getting upset?

[GoodMan]

As for getting your friends to remove people from their social networks -- is that sort of thing something you find yourself doing often? Going to others to make adjustments to satisfy/pacify your pwBPD? Or running around trying to put out fires and keep her from getting upset?

I find myself bending over backwards all the time. I don’t usually care. In this case that was humbling. Having to explain that was brutal as a man.

I had to make concessions on how I walk into a room, how and where I stand during arguments, my tone and voice volume, giving her space in our house etc. many many etc.

She treats all of these things like personal attacks. My snoring is an attack.

She has interrogated my friends and family about this ex, she has stalked and contacted her and her friends directly. I had to explain to them the issues and cut ties with that ex. And prove it to her.

All of these things at the time were in my mind what I had to deal with to be there for this person. They were bandaids to me to save the relationship. I was doing things wrong that she hated so I had to fix them.

But for her now to come back and say she’s leaving cause I don’t have her back is insane. When you look at what I did and do...

[Ozzie101]

Here's the problem with the bending over backwards: It's never enough. A logical, rational person can look and say: "You've done this and this and that for me. Thank you. Let me do something for you." Doesn't work that way with BPD.

Like you, I fell into the "I've got to do everything possible to make this person happy" trap. And it is a trap, as you've found, that leads nowhere.

As I understand it, for pwBPD, they feel awful. Any pain no matter how "small," any insult no matter how slight or unintentional is a huge deal. Their emotions are, often times, WAY out of whack. They feel this acutely. So, they'll look for cures and/or somewhere to place the blame because they feel shame so strongly. It's always got to be the fault of someone or something else. But that will never solve anything because the problem (or much of it) is actually inside them.

It sounds like she's focusing a LOT on your ex. The thing that's very hard to realize, but that is most likely true is that there's no way you can solve that. You can have every friend and family member cut her off. You can somehow break into the national computer systems to have her birth records and social security number expunged. This will still be an issue for your GF -- as long as she wants it to be.

I call it the One Thing. It's the One Thing that will fix everything. But even if you do manage to fix that, then another One Thing will pop up. Because the problem persists.

The way I've seen it explained is like this: A pwBPD is like a bucket with a hole in the bottom. You can try and try and try to fill that bucket. You can empty your own bucket over and over. Theirs will never be full. Eventually, yours will be completely empty and you won't have the energy to even fill your own again. Make sense?

In any relationship, compromise and accommodations are normal. It's what you do when you share your life with other people. But it sounds like your accommodations have gone way beyond the realm of normal.

By your making constant concessions to her, you may feel that it should prove your love and loyalty. To her mind, it doesn't. Because the pain is still there. The One Thing is still there. So you run yourself ragged. You humble yourself. You allow yourself to get sucked into the Karpman Triangle (https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle) and pull other people in as well in a desperate attempt to make her happy.

But is that working?

Because one thing I've learned is that when my H was upset about something or focusing on One Thing, what he was really upset about? Was something else entirely. It can really help to truly and fully listen to what's being said. You said you're working on being a better listener. How's that going?

[Harri]

Part 2 of this thread is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=336395.msg13051558#msg13051558