Really need to connect with others going thru this too.

[Runningbear]

I just joined this site hoping to connect with other people in my position. I’ve been in a relationship with this person for 15 years and have only realized in the past 4 years what is wrong with her and that it’s her and not me. I don’t really have any close friends to talk to about this and have no insurance to be able to see a therapist. I really need to connect with others going thru this too. I don’t have much of a support network.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[GaGrl]

Welcome, Runningbear!  Many people have found their way to this site for support and information. We can certainly help you with that!

What do you primarily need in terms of support? Are you looking for tools to help in certain situations? What do you find most difficult in your relationship?

[Harri]

HI.  Let me join GaGrl in saying welcome to the board! 

You are in the right place to talk with others who are in similar situations.  Some have just started here and others have been here a while.  Regardless, we all work together to learn how best to interact and use the tools and skills offered here.

What would you say is your biggest challenge with your wife?

[Runningbear]

I would say the worst thing is the constant negativity about everything and wielding it almost like a weapon.

[Harri]

Hi again.   

Ugh, that can be very hard to deal with and exhausting to boot!

Can you give us aa example of what things she would say and how you respond.  A she said, he said sort of thing.

That will help us get a better idea of the dynamics between the two of you and then maybe we can offer some specific suggestions that can improve things for you and the way you cope in these situations.The benefit of that is sometimes, changing how we respond can result in changes in our pwBPD.

 

[Runningbear]

It can be anything from hating her job, she has a hard time staying in one for any length of time, some conflict always arises. Or hating the state she lives in, she went to New Mexico to work for two years and has been back now for eight months and all I hear is how horrible it is here. She bought a new vehicle and now complains that it’s to big for her and she doesn’t like it anymore and just got it because I like it. Basically everything is always my fault. Itell her that the constant complaining and irrational negativity really bothers me but it doesn’t seem to matter. I try to ignore her but it’s like living with a wet blanket that sucks the fun out of everything.

[hmf2234]

It can be anything from hating her job, she has a hard time staying in one for any length of time, some conflict always arises. Or hating the state she lives in, she went to New Mexico to work for two years and has been back now for eight months and all I hear is how horrible it is here.

Hello, and welcome! 

I am quite new to this site myself, but this hit so close to home it isn't even funny. This used to be an issue with my ex fiance when she lived with me for 3 years. During that time frame I don't think she held down any one job for more than a 6 month period. She had so many jobs she's been in for a period of 3-6 months that I have lost count. In the beginning of each job it was always "omg, i love my manager, she is such a great and caring person. We get along so well, she is such a dream to work with". Then, 3-6 months later, "I am not happy there, I don't like the way she does things. She's such a b****" etc.

Then when she broke up with me and moved back to her parents place in long island she got a new job and once again "my boss, he is such a good guy, he understands his employees and he caters to our needs". And of course, like clock work, 6 months later "I don't like it here, the dynamic of the owners gf being the manager is not right. I don't want to be here anymore, I don't belong in long island. I am not happy here". I hoped this would be a way for her to want to come back to me, but unfortunately she said she doesn't belong in CT either. So she moved to Florida to be with some guy she met online not even a full 30 days before her move.

So that whole dynamic of her not liking, practically hating, the state she lives in is all too familiar as well.

[Runningbear]

Yes, the job thing drives me crazy, there is absolutely no stability. She has issues with trust and has a hard time getting along with superiors at work. The really crazy thing is she is a mental health professional and has told me she thinks she has a personality disorder but won’t do anything to help herself.

[The Wind]

Welcome Runningbear! I'm new too, joined the site in 2009 but just started posting.

Can I be an echo to what you said? My situation is very similar. I've been with my wife for 15 years and married 6 of those years. She also is a mental health professional, a very good one actually in many ways, but doesn't realize or atleast admit publicly that she has BPD. She admits to having bipolar disorder and would probably admit to sharing some traits as people suffering from bpd if you pushed her. I tend to think she was diagnosed as bpd early on but rejected the diagnosis because it has the stigma of being "incurable", at least it once did.

She also can be so negative, it's downing. I label her jokingly in my head "the worse case scenario" because everything in her mind that could happen to affect us negatively will happen. Everything is the worse case scenario.

"You didn't get the flu shot? We'll all get the flu and could die!"

"You cut your hand? It's going to get infected and have to be amputated!"

Everything in her mind goes to the worst case scenario immediately!

She also has so much trouble with employers. She can't deal with other people long term, especially supervisors. They start out being great people to work with and within the same time line, they become awful people and I hear this phrase so much "someone's going to get hurt up there, someone is going to die because they don't know what they're doing!" or "That place is going to get shut down, and I need to get out before it does!" - None of which have ever happened.

I get the move thing too. "This place depresses me" "I hate it here!" "I need to live here and I'll be so happy!".

We've moved around so much over these 15 years and no place is ever the right place. Any thing negative that happened to her in a specific town gets attached to that town as if the town was the cause and reminder of that negative thing.

This post didn't bring any solutions I know, I'll think of things that have helped me deal with the negativity, the job thing, and the move thing and post those later. I just wanted to say I know what your experiencing! I know those issues. It amazes me how consistent the issues can be across the population!

[Red5]

Welcome !

Yes, the job thing drives me crazy, there is absolutely no stability.

Same here, since I've known my wife, since dating, and marriage… she has self sabotaged two very good state jobs…

She has issues with trust and has a hard time getting along with superiors at work.

Yes, her direct reports (VP's) finally got to the point of 'official' written reprimand… due to issues inner office, she even has been involved with the dismissal of two other employees whom she had issues with… she walked off two different jobs in the college system, she is now on state disability.

The really crazy thing is she is a mental health professional and has told me she thinks she has a personality disorder but won’t do anything to help herself.

I've read quite a lot lately about persons whom are on the spectrum someplace, that are actually mental health care providers… interesting… in fact there are several members here on the site whom describe this scenario in their relationships

Red5

[Runningbear]

Thank you all for your input. It’s amazing how many common threads we all have in our experiences. What makes it all the more difficult is how when she's not being negative, sarcastic, judgemental, or attacking me personally she can be a nice person. She just swings back and forth so quickly and any kind of stress or adversity just sets her off. I tell her that life is made of highs and lows and you have to be able to cope with it all. She can’t seem to cope whenever things happen that aren’t just perfect. Anything I say is like talking to a brick wall. She truly can become completely irrational. I just have to remove myself from the situation when that happens or an argument is sure to ensue. Kind of hard if your trapped in a car tho.

[Red5]

Kind of hard if your trapped in a car tho.

… ah' yes, the old trapped in the car with you 'thing'… #Me2… wow : (

Also vacations… many hundreds, thousands of miles from home base, no escape… and it's then, that pw/bpd chooses to get in your grill… ugh !

Another… dinner date… nice place… "atmosphere"… "wine list"… and they start in on you… over dinner, after the food is served onto the table (sad emoji)… dinner is ruined !

Vacations go right along with "air travel"… holy molly… the stories I can tell…

You see, pw/bpd cannot self regulate, self sooth… its all part of it, its all about control, and punish, and add a side order of projection,

But we continue on, we stay around, we love them… we "put up with it"… for years, even decades.

Red5

[Runningbear]

oh yes, the vacation thing how could I forget. I can’t recall all the beautiful places that have been ruined by her episodes of loathing self pity and blaming me for the color of the sunset. It gets to where you don’t want to go places with them.

[Red5]

It gets to where you don’t want to go places with them.

Yup, been there and done that... this time last year we went on a trip to visit her son in the North Dakota territory where he is stationed in the Air Force... eight daze, flew up and back and a four hour car ride to the airport coming and going...

Out eight daze, she showed her @SS six of them... on the way back the plane was delayed in Minneapolis... I thought I was going to have to walk away from her... wow : (

I swore to myself... never again...

I wrote a whole thread about it here... this time last year...

She drives me nuts but I do love her...

Red5

[COLB]

Runningbear,
I think most of us have lived the horrible drive to X with a meltdown in progress.  The most recent was a drive to Mass that we both had collected donations but hers was not the largest.  I struggle with any adventure that will cause stress to my BPDw.  I know trips, holidays, and any change not induced by her are an explosion in waiting.  The kids favorite part of our last vacation was when I took them out to play put put and race go carts and mom stayed in the room to calm down...its heartbreaking.

She can’t seem to cope whenever things happen that aren’t just perfect.

That is the one that has impacted my children the hardest...if my BPDw has a vision and that vision is not met we just hope she goes to her room and finds a way to self regulate.  The joke among our older kids is that "mom is getting the tripod out to take a picture".  Then they all groan and make an uncomfortable laugh.  Every one of my sons has made the mistake of triggering her by being a young boy taking a picture in some way  (make a silly face, rabbit ears a brother, not smile correctly).  Family photos are dreaded for that reason. 

B

[Runningbear]

The incident that woke me up to what was going on with her happened about 4 1/2 years ago. I had surgery to fix a torn tendon in my ankle and was in a cast and zero weight bearing on that leg for three months. Five days after my surgery my then 90 year old mother fell and broke her leg and had to have surgery and a rod put in to fix it.  So I’m stuck on the couch with my leg in a cast, worried to death about my mom and really needing some comfort and support and she decided to start picking fights about asinine things. I’m in tears I was so upset and there is zero empathy or caring coming my way. I came very close to leaving her then. Prob would have if I wasn’t totally incapacitated, couldn’t even drive. I’ve never forgiven her for that.

[Red5]

I’ve never forgiven her for that.

Persons whom are bpd will say the most incindiary things to their partners... during a full on fight, tools out the window, total breakdown of facts, reasoning... seems they must win the dysregulative aurgument at all and any cost... this is part of the “extinction burst” phenomena...

My own bpd wife (not dx) has absolutely shredded me in the past, screamed, yelled, and even in a “calm voice”... pretty much ripped my heart asunder...

I’ve lost count, of the times, but I’ve never been able to forget...

After all these years, I now understand to “not take it personally”... but this becomes extremely hard to do, even after years of this type behavior...

And then!... comes the gas lighting... the “turn it all around on you” thing...

The pw/bpd will project it all onto you, as if you’d made it all up, or deserved it...

This is where the non starts to lose themselves in these relationships...

It happened to me for years... I fought back, I “defended myslef”... little did I know I was being “culpable” in the increasing mayhem.

I’ve learned terms like... “rigid”, “talionic”, and “echoism”.

Yes, my wife has screamed at me... “I hate you, and I hate your son too, I should have never married you, this has been a huge mistake, you never really loved me”...

We’ve been together eleven years, eight married, both of us married before, and both of these previous marriages lasts over twenty years... we’ve been separated since 1 December... almost seven months now... we are speaking, and spending a little time together... she told me last Friday evening, after she devalued me for over two hours at a restaurant... “we need to start dating again”... she means each other...

Is there hope, yes there is, but she still to this very day projects all her $hit onto me... she even called me the next morning, to make sure I was alright, I quote... “you ar going to have to learn to not take things so personally Red, I need you to hear what I am feeling”...

Yeah, wow...

She told me I took her power away, what?

She told me I emotionally abused her, whoa!

I just listened... as I have been taught to do here, I took it all, and then looked to validate her... ‘SET’... no ‘JADE’...

She took me to Outback for Father’s Day... it was a long night, she told me a few weeks back, after we started talking and meeting again... “we’ve got to start somewhere”... she called me back up that day too, after our first meeting in three months, and said she was sorry that the afternoon went so negatively...

She really let me have it... there was a time a few years ago, that I would have stormed out, and told her to _______ .

But I just sat there and took it,

She isn’t ever going to change, this I know, we are both approaching mid fifties now, and she has stage iv cancer.

Things don’t look good, or bode well, but I’m hanging in there.

Sorry for the rant,

Red5

[Runningbear]

Wow, you have been through a lot. I’m sorry about the cancer, that sucks. We are currently living in separate houses mainly because I inherited my Moms down the street and we’re going to sell one but I’m really not looking forward to moving back in with her. She was working out of state for two years and came back when my mom passed last year. I cherish my alone time right now. It keeps me sane.

[GaGrl]

Funny gbear, the alone and protected time, and a living space that allows that, is very good important now. Don't do anything in haste while you are sorting out your own position, needs, and feelings.

[Runningbear]

Funny gbear, the alone and protected time, and a living space that allows that, is very good important now. Don't do anything in haste while you are sorting out your own position, needs, and feelings.

thank you

[COLB]

Runningbear,

I’m in tears I was so upset and there is zero empathy or caring coming my way.

That reminds me so much of a similar incident three years ago with my BPDw.  My Dad has 8 brothers and sister and I spent alot of time with all my aunts and uncles growing up.  One aunt in particular was especially close to me growing up.  (We were very similar and I used to ride my bike over to her house to have lunch with my cousins in the summer and stay all day).  She passed away in Ky when we were stationed in Al.  My cousins asked for me to be a pall bearer and speak at her funeral.  My BPDw melted down that I was going to see my family (she blames them all for a myriad of things).  She demanded that I not go.  I told her I would not be there for my family.  They needed me and I needed them.  The funeral had just finished and she begins calling threatening me and tearing me down.  I was already emotionally spent and that was just the last straw.  I fell into the FOG attack.  I left the immediately after the funeral and headed back to AL.  There were 14 phone messages and over 60 nasty texts as I drove the four hours back to our house.  I cried the whole way and didn't answer the phone.  I was worried about the children at home with her melting down and called my oldest son to go check on everyone.  When I got home she berated me for not understanding empathy nor having any by leaving her alone to go to the funeral...she even sent me a video on empathy to prove her point.  ...  I am still hard pressed to find charity for her after that.   With what I know now I would have handled it differently.  I would not have allowed the FOG to pull me away from my grieving.  Still the deep wounds from that still hurt.  Mostly because I don't see her changing...

Red I am sorry that cancer has added to your pain and complicated this for you both.  

I have to ask.    Could facing the cancer be exacerbating her self esteem/self image?  Does your wife seem to try harder the more disengaged you are? My BPDw is the classic "I hate you don't leave me" and the more I try to step away the harder she tries to be positive. The more I put into the relationship the more often a disregulation happens.    

I hate you, ..., I should have never married you, this has been a huge mistake, you never really loved me

 We should have t- shirts made.  I have heard that often over the last 30 years.  Keep plugging.  Talking it out is not a rant...  

B

[COLB]

Runningbear,
Take inventory of what you need to stay positive.  Don't give up the space if you need it right now and don't have to...take a long view of it.

B

[Old Quaker]

I can really relate to the job thing.  My wife usually starts each job loving her boss, her job and her coworkers, but after a few years, usually 3, she starts to hate everything about it.  It's been the same routine for every job she's ever had.  Starts out being the best job she ever had, and ends up being the worst.

She usually ends up in a confrontational relationship with her boss because she doesn't take constructive criticism, at all.  If she's told to do something a certain way and she doesn't agree, she'll do it her way no matter how many times she's told about it.

Her way is always the right way and doesn't get it that her boss has the final say.  She was walked out of her last job that she actually held for almost 10 years.  Constantly warned about inappropriate computer use on company time.  They finally fired her for it one month before her 10th anniversary.

I've lost track of how many times I've gotten a call from her crying on the phone that she was just fired.

[Red5]

I can really relate to the job thing. 

My wife usually starts each job loving her boss, her job and her coworkers, but after a few years, usually 3, she starts to hate everything about it. 

It's been the same routine for every job she's ever had.  Starts out being the best job she ever had, and ends up being the worst.

She usually ends up in a confrontational relationship with her boss because she doesn't take constructive criticism, at all.  If she's told to do something a certain way and she doesn't agree, she'll do it her way no matter how many times she's told about it.

Her way is always the right way and doesn't get it that her boss has the final say.

Another T-Shirt !

It amazes me, seems these folks all have the exact same script : (

Red5

[Red5]

I have to ask... could facing the cancer be exacerbating her self esteem/self image?

I have noted, observed that since her rcc dx, she has become far less aggressive, and more of the victim (waif), rather than the hermit/queen… and I don't see the "witch" much anymore, the "witch" would compliment the "queen" on certain auspicious occasions… but the "waif" I do see almost constantly now… yes, she is now firmly entrenched in the victim mode… she used to be "H3LL on Wheels" {ie' 2nd Armored Division} before she left her job (almost fired)… she resigned, and went on state disability… now she is much more the "its all your fault" type modus operandi to me, and anybody else that gets caught in the open… and woe betide the hapless nurse, pharmacy tech… even doctor whom does not treat her as she wishes… wow : (

Does your wife seem to try harder the more disengaged you are?

To an extent... when I came here in Jan 17… and henceforth, several senior members noted, told me that I had emotionally abandoned my wife, which was indeed quite true, I discussed this with "T", and he said that "you went into survival mode Red"… which makes sense to me… but the more I withdrew, the angrier she got… I was so tired of fighting, I shut down, and cloaked myslef in a IDGAF attitude… which only made things so much worse… then she got her dx…

My BPDw is the classic "I hate you don't leave me" and the more I try to step away the harder she tries to be positive.

We've been separated since 1 Dec, after she hit (rage) my autistic Son in his head (long story-step mom)… and again… senior members pointed out to me that this was a cumulative event… which I again agreed with… I made some threats that day (either you... or else me and the boy leaves)… so she moved out, and I still struggle when she says "you kicked me out"… as what was I supposed to do, let her keep hitting my Son… she went way too far that morning… and to this day, she still has not taken any accountability for the incident (hitting)… that was a "deal breaker"… you don't hit my kid… maybe I should have moved out, but its a logistics thing, as the home is my financial responsibility… pets, cars, trucks, stuff… lots of stuff… and of course undiagnosed borderline personality disorder (I think she is comorbid though)… we still talk about me kicking her out… and she said just last Friday evening over dinner, "I'd do it again too"… she means hitting the boy… wow ; (

No, I think, there were times, in the past, when I backed away, she did pursue, and she has even hit me too… but after she moved out, she went NC for a while… as I was the devil himself… "victim" all the way, "you kicked your wife out, who has cancer"… never mind she basically attacked my Son… because he was in the bathroom too long (autism)… that's NOT figured into it.

I'll repeat, you don't hit my kid… no!

The more I put into the relationship the more often a dysregulation happens.

 

I call this investment… seemed back in the day, before bpd epiphany, and rcc stage iv… the more I tried, the more she pushed me away (push/pull)… I wrote this somewhere yesterday… "T" said… "Red, sooner or later a borderline WILL destroy everything you've built together (investment)… absolutely everything"… in my experience, he is correct.

Sorry for the highjack Runningbear

Red5

[Runningbear]

Sorry for the highjack Runningbear

Red5
[/quote]no need to apologize, I’m learning so much from hearing other people’s stories. It’s amazing how similarly the bpd’s operate.

[COLB]

Runningbear and Red 5,

maybe I should have moved out, but its a logistics thing, as the home is my financial responsibility … pets, cars, trucks,... stuff … lots of stuff

I totally understand that.  I also know that if I left and gave my BPDw the house and $ she would still attack me and any one of the children that had contact with me. 

I also was told by T that I had emotionally disconnected from the relationship and have a decision to make...I am still making it.  I have completely gone into full open protected mode.  Shut the hatches and button up the tank.  During the last episode my BDPw threatened our 17 year old son that she would get a kitchen knife if he did not get away from his siblings.  (He was comforting his 9 year old sister who was in tears over mom screaming though the house at dad.)  I walked out with him and have completely disconnected emotionally.  We returned because the youngest two wanted us home and I could not find a decent place to stay that I could afford. .  Since then she has only said she is "sorry for having escalated our discussion".  My seventeen year old son is completely ignoring her and she told me she doesn't understand why.  When I told her he has lost all respect for us because of our actions, she got mad at me...And now she is in full overboard nice mode over correcting the other direction.  Even the 9 year old is asking "what is wrong with mom?"

"I'd do it again too" … she means hitting the boy … wow ; (

My 20 year old daughter said three years ago that her mom had hit her over her wearing makeup and called her several variations of a whore (my wife denied but had same the same thing to me a week earlier about her).  Our daughter walked out of the house the day she turned 18 and has not looked back.  My wife also denied hitting our daughter to the counselors and everyone she spoke with.  She is the perpetual victim in every relationship.  As things escalated over the last couple years my BPDw then started hitting me trying to get me to hit her back when I did go into the FOG.  I never did respond by striking her, so recently she changed tactics to getting in my face and bumping me as she berated me. I have tried to walk away from her when she does this.  Once I did push her out of the way, big mistake on my part.  She called and texted everyone that I was beating her. She even called the police.  When they saw my defensive wounds they had me leave the house till it cooled down.  In her last explosion she repeated her denial of hitting our daughter but then said that her friend had hit her daughter and that sometimes the kids deserved it...which makes me think that she did hit our daughter...
I guess I am saying you did the best thing protecting your son.  My greatest failure is not having protected my children from this enough.  I have been torn between what my Catholic faith says about marriage (stay and work with God to make it better) and what I feel my duty is to protect my children.  That is a hell on earth for me.
   
…

I was so tired of fighting, … I shut down, and cloaked myslef in a IDGAF attitude

We are in the same place.  I have no more in my tank and I cannot muster any more false motivation. I honestly have tried the last couple weeks but there is nothing there.

Red, sooner or later a borderline WILL destroy everything you've built together (investment) … absolutely everything" …. in my experience, he is correct.

I would say that is true.  And when you invest to rebuild it eventually they come back and burn it down again.  It is that cycle that I am at my wits end dealing with.  I am emotionally out of gas and struggle day to day to give back.  You know its bad when you long for the days of being deployed...at least you knew there were definite consequences to actions.

Runningbear I will say first get your house in order.  Utilize this site.  It has been a huge help to me in so many ways.  Take care of yourself.  Tools with FOG and JADE have been a great boon to me.  Next find yourself and carve out some peace in your life.  Then fix those relationships you think are important that have been damaged by this.  For me it is with my children.  I am making a point to connect with each of them.  That onto itself has helped me and they tell me they treasure my connection to them.  For Fathers day my oldest daughter gave me a picture of us when she was a little tike asleep on my chest.  She said that she was glad that I was a good father in the madness of our house.  I cried like a little baby, but good tears.

B

[GaGrl]

I'm going to chime in because of the eventual effect on the children. My DH stayed with his first wife (uBPD/NPD) many years after the marriage had failed -- because of the children. He was able to intercede in some pretty horrible situations.

The oldest daughter was the ex's niece and had been adopted and brought to the U.S. at age 13 from Thailand. As a teen, she wanted to be like the other teens. Ex tried to impose Thai cultural standards. One of those is that, at a certain age, a good Thai girl wears her hair pinned up ; Thai women are pretty modest. So of course D went to school and took her hair down, put on makeup, then reversed before she got home. Ex eventually caught her, went berserk, and held D down and took scissors to back off the girl's hair. Humiliating. Plus, it involved DFCS, interviews, follow-up meetings -- DH was at Ft. Benning and had to help sort out the disaster.

The oldest daughter packed a bag and walked out the day she turned 18.

The second daughter moved in with her BF the day she turned 17. Turns out in Georgia, law enforcement can't force a child to live with parents at age 17. She finished her senior year that way.

The son was enmeshed with his mother, the Golden Child. He and DH had a distant, not intimate relationship...very little respect for his dad.

All three children, while in their teens, asked DH why he didn't divorce her.

When he did, and when we married and they saw a strong marriage, all three developed much better relationships with their dad. Respect was re-established. It is good now.

So what I would watch for is what is being modeled for the children. Where is the damage being done? What intercession is needed, when and where?

[Red5]

... some history,

Myself and my first wife (ex) got married in Florida... 1984, I was eighteen she was sixteen, parental consent, she never knew her real father, and my grandparents had raised me, four years later my wife told me she had been sexually abused from about age 7-12, we stayed married for 21 years.

My current wife (separated), she married her first husband at sixteen, here in North Carolina... 1984 also, he was seven years older than her, parental consent... they stayed married for 20 years... I later found out that her own mother and father were wed when MIL was sixteen also, (1964’ish) I don’t know how much older her foo dad was then her foo mum, but there was about a 3-5 year difference in age I think... he had joined the Navy right away...  he passed thirteen years ago, mesothelioma...

Both my exwife and my current wife, did turn seventeen the very next month after being married.

My first wife, ex...she (we) got pregnant... so we got married,

My current wife swears she wasn’t pregnant...  but that she just wanted to “get married”... he immediately joined the Army and they went to Germany... they GTF out of dodge...

I went into the Marines... three months after me and my first wife got married, I shipped out... she had a misscarraige on her birthday exactly three weeks after we married.  

I turned nineteen the day I shipped out to Parris Island, our first duty station was Cherry Point North Carolina, about 10-11 hours away from home... turned out it wasn’t far enough...

Why do girls marry so young... to escape I think.

The key I think is to know and understand “why” they are escaping... as this will surface (bpd) when they are older, starting in their early to mid twenties... I can pin point that my first marriage “turned” in 1992, after I returned from SWA... Desert Storm, via Japan... I was gone for nine months...she was about 23 then... things started to get pretty crazy right about this time period...

Thoughts...

Red5

[once removed]

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