Advice on how to "stop rescuing him"

[Inch]

My therapist has suggested that I stop "rescuing" my undiagnosed BPD husband.  So, today he got angry and was yelling and swearing horribly at me on the phone while he was driving.  He passed someone he knew who saw him through the car window screaming obscenities.  Now he is claiming to be suicidal (he is not) and he needs me to talk with him (for two hours) about how horrible he feels and the possible implications of having been seen behaving so badly. 

Just writing this down makes me see the whole situation in a new light -- how can he possibly be angry at me (again) for not being helpful enough to him in this situation?

I have been trying to follow my therapist's advice, and when he asks, again and again, how bad this is?  What is the worst thing that could happen as a result?  How can he live with the shame? I am trying hard not to provide him comfort, but then he gets so angry.  What should I say?

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[sotiredofthis]

Not providing enough comfort is what I get in trouble for too. I need more tips on this.

[waverider]

You can provide support/comfort/empathy/validation without actually trying to provide solutions and fixing things.

Use phases like I think I know what you are saying/ I can see how you think that/ That must really be bothering you, etc.

Being "on his team" is not the same as spoon feeding.

Regarding his anger, he is not really angry at you, more that he is angry that things aren't like he would want them to be, you are just a vehicle for expressing that anger

[Inch]

That is good advice. He mostly feels condescended to, however, when I try to respond with "I hear you," or "that must be tough."  He doesn't feel that I am truly empathetic and he really pushes me to explain to him why his behavior is not as bad as he imagines -- again and again.  I know that is the pattern that I've been a part of up to now -- he freaks out and I work to calm him down, but I need to do something different. 

I just don't know what.

[zachira]

You cannot feel your husband's anger for him. If you take on his anger, then he does not have to deal with it. Remember that no feeling can linger forever and will pass. Do set boundaries with him, and let him know you are available to talk with him when he has calmed down, and is no longer angry.

[waverider]

You cannot feel your husband's anger for him. If you take on his anger, then he does not have to deal with it. Remember that no feeling can linger forever and will pass. Do set boundaries with him, and let him know you are available to talk with him when he has calmed down, and is no longer angry.

This is important. projection is a common coping mechanism they want you to feel it, to own it, take responsibility for it and take it away. With a dose of blaming to consolidate your ownership.

Ask him to explain his view of reality rather than being sucked into selling your own reality. This is part of avoidance as the reality being discussed is the one that will be subject to criticism, hence he wants yours on the table. This only puts you onto the defensive and you will over defend, and over explain, until you start to doubt yourself as your reasoning gets pushed further away from the real issue.

[isilme]

You can't "prove" your love or the amount of caring you can give someone.  You cna't show him how much you care, how much you understand.  So give him the care you feel is appropriate, but don't fall into a trap of trying to "prove" it.

Easier said than done, I know.

Remember BPD has a lot of quirks tied into it - the main issue usually seems to be an inability to manage emotions, and to separate his own emotions from yours, or to believe you (or anyone else) might feel different from how he feels.  Looking at things through the lens of what BPD must be like can help us with our responses.

For instance, the incident where an unsanctioned person witnessed some of his BPD rages:
If you H is embarrassed, he might react a few ways. 
1 - he might want to embarrass you so you share that feeling or maybe even feel he got revenge for having felt that way (even though you did not cause it - this is immaterial).  I go through threats os this time to time.  H will fixate on some event HE found embarrassing, often things from years back, when he dysregulates and he can't find something recent to rail at me about.  He needs me to feel the same feeling, to validate his feeling.  If I feel differently, then to him one of us must be wrong and it certainly can't be him.  He's embarrassed he missed a social cue on a boat 10 YEARS AGO, where I had to get him to understand I could not easily go down a ladder in a dress he'd just bought me, so I had to state it aloud and now he thinks the world heard it and still thinks of the ass who didn't understand his GF did not want to upskirt the whole boat.  So, he threatens to disclose I sometimes drink straight out of the milk carton in the fridge to "the world."  To make me embarrassed because he was once embarrassed.  It's a share my pain or you will get my revenge kind of thinking.

2 - he is feeling shamed for knowing he was acting in a way that he'd not want other (other than you - more on that in a minute) to see.  Therefore, YOU must also be ashamed of him.  So anything you say to the contrary must be a lie.  So, this shoots much of what you could say in the foot.  Look at the tool called SET to see how you can work to gently tell him things contrary to his emotions in a manner that may get through.  Another thing.  You need to be consistent in what you say, and repeat it. Somehow saying it over and over can help. 

Also, once we are "allowed" to see the BPD rages and mood swings, we have been absorbed.  BPD treats loved ones like the Blob.  To them, we have been sucked in and have become an appendage able to take all blame and responsible for all feelings, like some external-mood-management-organ.  One of the terms for this is "enmeshment".  It happens a lot with children of pwBPD, but we SOs also fall into this trap, as normal levels of caring and partnership become overwhlemed with the disproportionate expextation to take on and manage our pwBPD's emotions for them, which we can. not. do.  No one can, but them. 

Strangers, co-workers, even some friends or family are NOT sanctioned to see this.  So, in a way, it just means you are the emotionally closest person to them.  But it sucks because the privilege that comes with that closeness if not much of a privilege.

3 - he can't handle (at the moment) much responsibility for how he feels, so it must be blamed on a convenient target - you.  BPD is often very tied to blame and shame avoidance, and so everyone else must be at fault for him feeling angry or bad, it can't possibly be his fault.  Or, once he's let the shame in, he is worthless and useless and no good to anyone, don't bother disagreeing.

4 - I think my H stated it pretty well when he admitted that he can't process anger (or most other feelings now that I am looking for it) without shouting it at someone (guess who?) regardless of blame, or if blame can even be assigned (I did not make it rain outside).

I find that keeping most of these in my mind when I start to feel panic rising at noticing an impending dysregulation event can sometimes help me not JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain), not invalidating, and to try to use SET or active listening and validation as I can.  A lot of being validating often just falls into being a good, active listener.  One big thing that can set off a pwBPD is feeling unheard, or that they are being told their emotions are "wrong". 

They can feel how they feel.  We don't have to own it or share it, but we can hear it. 

What are some things you already try to say?  Can you give a cliff notes transcript of how a common conversation goes, and maybe the community can give some input on other ideas to try as a response?  Ir even when no response is warranted?

[Inch]

Thank you, Isimle, those are some extremely helpful thoughts.  Yes, I am so close to him he forgets I am a separate person.  He often brings up ancient "transgressions," seemingly at random, so I will remember he might be seeking to balance or defend himself against his own self-blaming tendencies. 

Right now, he is desperate for me to give him "odds" and we have argued about that.  I don't know what the odds are that the person recognized him, understood that he was angry and swearing, whether that person will gossip to others, which others, or how those hypothetical others will respond. When I tell him "I don't know what the odds are," he responds that I am a reasonable person who understands the situation and I am being obstinate and refusing to help him in his direst need.

At this point, I have given up, and I am doing my best to soothe him by stating my belief that he and our children will not be blackballed from society as a result of this incident. 

This morning he called when he was having a panic attack, and I tried using "OARS"  I was trying to ask "open-ended questions," about what exactly happened, and then "affirming his emotions," without normalizing, minimizing or sharing those emotions, then "reflecting" his language back to him and summarizing his point.  I think that helped, but after the summary, he immediately asked: "So what are the odds I've ruined our lives?" At that point, I gave up and told him "2%" which made him feel much better.  I don't know what else to do.

My kids are 13 and 14, and I see more clearly every day how harmful his behaviors and our relationship are to the children, but I really believe he would make things much worse if I tried to leave him.  I've got to find a way to change the current dynamic in our family so that everything and everyone is not focused on placating his insatiable need for perfection as defined by his whim. 

If I say "I hear you"  he says "I ___ing hope you can hear, I need you to understand why I am right to be angry!"
If I say "I feel that ... ."  he says "I don't care how you feel, I care about the reality... ."
If I say "I can't listen to this right now." He says "You can never confront your problems"
If I say "I think you are overreacting," He says "Stop lecturing me."
If I say "OK" he says "No, it is not OK"
If I say "I'm sorry," he says "I don't believe your sorries, your sorries are worthless, I am sick of your sorries."
If I say "That is not how I remember it," he says "We've already established that your memories are worthless."
Most of the time, when I try to get a work in edgewise, he has a fit because I am interrupting (which is a problem I need to work on) or he criticizes my "horrible facial expressions," which telegraph to him I want to say something contradictory rather than listening.  So, I know I need to work on listening with my mindfulness.
I just feel so helpless and despondent. 

[Inch]

Also, once we are "allowed" to see the BPD rages and mood swings, we have been absorbed.  BPD treats loved ones like the Blob.  To them, we have been sucked in and have become an appendage able to take all blame and responsible for all feelings, like some external-mood-management-organ.  One of the terms for this is "enmeshment".  It happens a lot with children of pwBPD, but we SOs also fall into this trap, as normal levels of caring and partnership become overwhlemed with the disproportionate expextation to take on and manage our pwBPD's emotions for them, which we can. not. do.  No one can, but them. 

Strangers, co-workers, even some friends or family are NOT sanctioned to see this.  So, in a way, it just means you are the emotionally closest person to them.  But it sucks because the privilege that comes with that closeness if not much of a privilege.

This is helpful, too.  So I need to communicate to my children that we are all going to work to avoid feeling responsible for managing Dad's moods.  Dad's anger and good cheer belong to Dad alone. No one, no matter how much they love Dad or value Dad's good opinion, can feel responsible for Dad's emotions. 

Has anyone had experience helping children to avoid "enmeshment?"

[zachira]

You said you used OARS with him, which is a technique from motivational interviewing. Can you tell us more about how and when you have used OARS? I used motivational interviewing for years with clients that had no motivation to change at all, and eventually many of them ran out of reasons for their destructive behaviors and started working on changing. We are all looking for better ways to work with people with BPD, and I think motivational interviewing could be extremely helpful. Please share with us what works, as I think you have some ways of doing things that I have never heard before, and might help all of us.

[Inch]

I don't know how it will work.  He is unusually intelligent, empathic, and perceptive. Most listening strategies I adopt, he soon recognizes as patterns that I am controlling, and he disrupts it.  My personality is not as strong as his.  But I will keep trying OARS, because I have to find a way to make things change.

The hardest part for me is genuinely affirming his emotions without sharing them or seeming condescending. I write down to myself: "don't minimize his feelings, don't normalize his feelings, don't adopt his feelings, just affirm."  But, I often don't know what to say.

Any suggestions?