I'm terrified my daughter will die...

[sad_soul]

My 16 year old daughter is in long term RTC out of state. Every time the phone rings with a 303 area code my heart literally sinks into my stomach. I'm terrified she is going to get seriously hurt or commit suicide.

I'm scared to talk to her because every time I do she asks to come home and I say that's not possible (trying to be as validating as I can), she threatens to kill herself or hurt herself.  But I'm also scared not to talk to her in fear that she will think I abandoned her and "she has no one and nothing to live for".  I know she uses suicide threats to manipulate me and for a long time that worked especially when she was home and I could not contain her myself or keep her safe I would just give in so she wouldn't do something irreversible.  But I'm scared in this situation because, she's never been in a place where she couldn't get herself kicked out and her feeling "stuck" is a scary thought as I'm not sure to what lengths she will go to get her way or to punish me for not letting her come home. 

Yesterday they called me because she took the mirror out of her makeup compact and was cutting her wrists.  I asked the program director if they can make sure she doesn't have access to anything harmful and he told me (harsh but I think it's true) where there's a will there's a way, if she wants to do something she will find a way. TERRIFIED because I KNOW this is true... .my stomach is in knots, I feel like she's on the ledge and I don't know how to talk her off and anything I say can make her "jump"... .I fear the only thing that will stop this self-destructive behavior is either her actually hurting herself badly or me saying she can come home, I don't see an end to this... .

I spoke with her therapist but she refuses to meet with her or if she does she refuses to speak with her at all (sits in complete silence) or any of the staff... .

She is constantly picking fights with the other girls and accidents happen, so if I'm not worried about her hurting herself or worst, I also fear someone hurting her - even by accident. I don't think my daughter really wants to die, but I think she feels helpless and she is very impulsive so she might do something thinking this is how she can get some control and then go too far... .

any advice on how to even talk to her without making this situation worst would be helpful... .and any help on how to deal with the looming black cloud of suicide over my head would help tremendously  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[livednlearned]

sad_soul,

My heart goes out to you. I'm so sorry for what brings you here and glad you found the site.

When we have children who have suicidal ideation, it can feel like we live one step off a ledge at all times.

You mentioned validation. Would it help to share with us how your conversations go? It took me 3 seconds to understand validation and years to practice. I still get help from my own T to see where my particular choice of words undid the validation. And I learned from friends here about the word "but" and have tried to erase it from my vocabulary.

How often do you talk to your D? Do you have a T supporting you when these conversations take place?

We are here for you, sad_soul, and will walk alongside you through this difficult path.



LnL

[Rockieplace]

   *)I am so sorry that you are going through this too sad soul. I know only too well how you are feeling. It is so hard to live in dread like this.  I haven't got any answers. Just knowing that we are all rooting for you and are here to vent to helps me and hope it helps you too.   

[sad_soul]

thank you both, I'm in tears just knowing someone out there understands because when you tell anyone, everyone just looks at you like you're crazy... .or like my husband does, just dismisses it and says she's just manipulating you don't let it get under your skin... .easier said than done especially when she is actually hurting herself  

When she calls and says she wants to come home I just say, I totally understand why you would want to come home and before I get the next word out she cuts me off and says no you don't because if you did you would let me come home.  And then I usually say something like, I can't wait until you come home because when you are done treatment I know that we are going to have a great life together... .then she says I'm not doing treatment here, I hate this place there is nothing therapeutic about this place it's a "___ hole"... .and then she starts with the self-harming threats and saying that I will regret doing this to her... .

When she says she hates it there, I usually say I get why being there would be hard for you but I'm proud of you for trying. And then she says no you don't get it, you don't have to be stuck in this disgusting place. And the place is not disgusting, I went there myself to tour the place... .the problem is that the other RTCs she's been to through private insurance were very luxurious... .private giant estates in the hills in california with only 6 kids... .so she's used to that level of care but A) insurance would not continue to pay for her to go to these places again and again and B) she needed a higher level of care because she was always getting herself kicked out and can never get consistent treatment... .so compared to those places, I'm sure her feeling that it's "disgusting" is justified.

But I just feel like I can't say the right thing ever... .I feel like my validations come off as disingenuous and if I try to get her to see positives it agitates her... .I"m still practicing validation myself so I'm sure I often say the wrong thing but half the time I don't even get a chance to finish my sentence before she starts to escalate  

[livednlearned]

It is so hard to understand the level of empathy and authenticity needed when we talk to our kids while they are in crisis  :'(

My son taught me so much about what I say and what he hears.

Your post makes me think about a few things.

One is Blaise Aguirre's book about BPD and Adolescence. Have you had a chance to read it? There is a part about cutting and self-harm that may help explain what is happening psychologically. I learned that self-harm and suicidal ideation are different, although a child may use both to manage severe emotional and psychological pain.

When my son began to have suicidal ideation, my T coached me to respond with, "You must be in a lot of pain to feel that way. Did something happen today that hurt you?" This is different than reassuring. I learned to stop reassuring S14 because it only made him feel worse. Sometimes when we say we understand, it comes across as reassurance more than a willingness to bear witness to someone's authentic feelings. They feel we are trying to soothe them instead of hearing them out.

This leads to the second thing. My T helped me also see that boundaries are critically important with kids who have suicidal ideation. My son was 8 when it started and there are probably differences in how to respond given the developmental changes, so this may not apply to your situation. Even so, if it's useful, it went something like this: I had to learn to lovingly disengage from his threats and almost assume a neutral view. "You are learning how to find words to express your feelings and I am learning to hear you better. When you feel safe with yourself, then we can talk about x." This put the responsibility for doing x on his shoulders instead of mine. In your situation, it might be directly addressing D16's SI as a sign she is not keeping herself safe enough to come home. She is blaming you for her predicament when she needs to learn that she is there because of her actions. It's a good idea to talk to a T, perhaps even a child psychologist T, so you can understand the therapeutic intentions behind presenting your boundaries with difficult behaviors like SI.

The third thing is the focus on her success, however you define it. My S14 falls apart when he succeeds at something. It gets wrapped up in my expectations and S14's anxiety about performing well or failing, which is directly tied into his fear of rejection or abandonment. The truth is that even after treatment, your D16 will experience difficulties. She may relapse. And telling her that you will be there when she transitions, and you will take things one step at a time, she may find some comfort in doing well because it means she will continue to get attention. I'm not sure I'm explaining it well... .

We have complex kids, and learning to listen to their language is not intuitive. I had to find a remarkable T for myself and an excellent T for S14. I also learned from friends here how to tell the Ts what I needed and what my son needed because I truly had a better grasp of what was going on. We are not just "clients" with "problems," we are two people with distinct needs for support.

And your husband... .I mean no disrespect, but of course your D16 is manipulating you. She lacks the skills to get her needs met in a healthy way so she uses other means that may solve immediate problems while unfortunately creating other problems. Our job is to figure out what needs she is trying to get met and support her in finding healthy ways to manage those needs. Aguirre has a great section in his book on manipulation that helped me understand it much better. We all do it. People with BPD do it to excess because their emotional pain is much greater and their needs feel more extreme.

And ignore people who look at you like you're crazy. They cannot imagine what it is like to walk in your shoes.

Keep posting. It really does help  

[sad_soul]

THANK YOU! This helps tremendously, I love the line "You are learning how to find words to express your feelings and I am learning to hear you better. When you feel safe with yourself, then we can talk about x." this is like gold to me... .because then she can't turn that around, what can she say? I think you are right, I need to find a therapist for myself. I had one for awhile but I just didn't think she connected with me and sometimes she would fall asleep in our sessions   - guess I bored her!

That's why I'm glad I found this site, because I started to feel soo alone and so guilty and so wrong and just with not a single soul to hear me... .just getting these messages today has already lifted my spirits

[once removed]

hi sad_soul  

i would like to join the others and say

i too am very sorry for the circumstances that brought you here, but thrilled you have found us. this is a great place to learn, and to receive insight and support. i think one thing that will be critical is that you practice self care, and take good care of yourself - dealing with a child with suicidal ideation, i imagine must be overwhelming, and im glad to hear that your child has a compassionate mother, who only wants the best for her daughter.

as you get acquainted with the site, i encourage you to have a look at the lessons (links) directly to the right. these are invaluable resources that can improve your situation for all parties. there is hope, and you came to the right place.

please keep posting and sharing your story with us. we are here to support you  

[sad_soul]

   

It's crazy, I'm actually looking forward to my call with my d today! I feel like I for once have something good to say that may help this situation... .it's so sad and hard to deal with but having support makes all the difference in the world.

[saphirewidow]

There are some great responses here. I love some of the validation phrases.    I would add that with my son when he was pushing for me to take him home, they were just making him worse, etc,  I did tell him " I love you so much that I have committed to work with your treatment team for as long as it takes to help you'... .He was furious with me because I basically told him that I wasn't taking him home without the treatment teams recommendation.  This was hard and he was mad, but over time it took the pressure off of me.  When the topic drifted back I would restate, we have talked about this before and I am not changing my mind on this one because I love you too much to not get you the treatment you need.  When you start working with your treatment team and they feel you are ready to come home, then we can start talking about discharge.  I think he told me not to visit any more he was so mad, but he called the next day and still wanted me to visit.  Consistent loving communication is so important but don't waffle or allow yourself to let her think you might concede and take her home.   

[sad_soul]

thank you saphirewidow. I think it's a good idea for me to reiterate to her that she needs to start working with her treatment team because so far all she does is sit in silence or refuse to meet with them.  But putting it this way is much more constructive I think then me saying, "longer you do that the longer you have to stay"... .so thank you for that! I definitely won't take her home, that's NOT an option, because I just know how reckless and dangerous she can be... .she makes SUCH poor decisions and with the suicide attempts/ideation and self harming, it's impossible to keep her safe here... .so no way!

[livednlearned]

I'm glad you feel your spirits have lifted.

We have kids who can read the slightest inflection in our voices as a sign of disappointment and rejection.

I wanted to pass along another piece of gold a member here shared with me, which is the book I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better by the Lundstums, especially the part about asking validating questions. This particular skill has two parts, one is validating, and the other is putting responsibility back on the other person.

In conversations with your D, when you feel things start to accelerate and she begins to run it off the ledge, validating questions can help slow things down and give you a chance to catch your breath.

My favorite is: "Oh?"



Sometimes all we need to do is listen. My son's T says that the goal is to get our kids to talk, and in doing so, they are bringing down the barriers to their terribly isolated and frightened selves. From there, we build trust. They learn we have the strength to sit in the darkness with them.

We do not have to soothe them, fix them, save them, rescue them, every minute of the day. We need to bear witness to their pain so that they feel less alone and scared. We listen to remind them we are with them in that dark place, not afraid to hear what they think and feel because we know there is a way through the darkness.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[michmom]

Hello sad_soul,

You are not alone. Welcome. I am so sorry for your grief.  You are exhibiting the core values of a mother who loves her daughter. Even if your daughter doesn't recognize this now.  I know how difficult it is to not respond to your daughters cries for help but you are healthy and she is not able to recognize what is in her best interest now.  It's no different then a child crying out because the stitches hurt when the doctor is fixing the deep wound.  In DBT I gained the understanding that 1.  Safety first and 2. Two opposite feels can exist in the same moment and in spite of our discomfort they are both healthy and alright for us to feel. Such is the situation of the state of motherhood.  You must establish boundaries and stay the course to teach these skills to your daughter.  Was your daughter diagnosed? How long?