Feedback Requested - A Letter I'm Planning on Sending

[tonkaster]

To uBPDbf/so of 30 years -

LINE IN THE SAND

Three months ago I pleaded with you to fight for me. Either you didn’t understand or you don’t care. This is the last time I will be reaching out to you, unless you choose me.

I’m like a baby tooth, held on by a final thread. A baby tooth that can be rotated 360°, but is still attached. Barely. I am not f----ing around here.

First Option

Your first option would be to fight for us. As I previously mentioned, it would be the hardest thing either one of us has ever done. A tremendous amount of effort and work would be likely.

It would mean therapy for us both, separately and together, for as long as it takes. Maybe for as long as we’re together. No matter how many miles a car has on it, it still needs maintenance. Why would something as important as a decades-long relationship be any different?

Saving us requires you to do whatever may be needed to regain my trust and to be honest with me. You must be transparent.

I am not willing to tolerate you blaming me for whatever bad thing happens in your life, cheating, intentionally making me feel like crap, lying, staying out all night, or threatening to leave. Every single one of those things is a deal-breaker for me.

I may never be OK with you being closer friends with any woman than I am. Your track record is sh--ty, to say the least.  

Our best days could still be ahead of us. It’s not too late to be one of the greatest love stories, ever.

Second Option

You are free to go. You are free to move on. You can do anything and be with anyone you want.

You can hit on our customers, our friends, our friend’s friends, your friend’s girlfriends, our kid’s friends, or random strangers. You can go out on dates. You can take erectile dysfunction drugs with you when you go out of town for a guy’s weekend. You can call into chat lines and post yourself on dating sites. Go ahead and bring condoms to parties. Come home without your underwear. Bring someone else’s underwear home. You can hire prostitutes.

You have done all of these things. None of these things are going to be part of my life any more. Nor anything even remotely similar. I’d rather be alone.

Substitute whatever language you want. I’m not going to get into semantics.

What the Second Option Will Mean for You

If we’re done, then it is complete and forever. I will not be your business partner, co-owner, co-worker, or roommate, ever again.

If you choose not to reply, I will assume you are moving on without me. Every second, every minute, every day, my heart is closing. If you don’t want to lose me, you need to act fast. That’s not a threat. I just can’t keep holding out hope when there is nothing to hope for.

THE END

[Grey Kitty]

Hello and welcome here! You are among friends who understand the kind of thing you are going through.

You asked for feedback.

1. I think that writing that letter was a fantastic exercise on your part. I've got some idea what your story is just from the letter.

 I can also tell how much you are hurting and frustrated from it.

2. I don't know what your goal in writing the letter is, but I have trouble coming up with reason to expect a good result.

If you want him to really start working on your relationship, I don't think a pwBPD is likely to respond well to this kind of letter, start working on himself and the relationship.

If you want him to leave, I wouldn't expect a pwBPD to just up and go without a ton of drama and chaos, if he even leaves based on this letter.

Honestly, I'd expect him to continue what he's been doing before, including finding a way to attack you for sending him the letter.

3. Can you tell us a bit more about your situation?

Are the two of you still living together?

Do you still work together or own a business together?

Do you have children together? (especially minor children)

It sounds like he's cheated and flirted with other women. Has this gotten worse?

Would you rather he try to fix things, or would you rather he leave?

[tonkaster]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply!

Are the two of you still living together?

In 30 years together, he "left", declaring he's "done!" for hours or days about 100 times (even by his own admission) due to conflicts. 99 times, I bargained, begged, negotiated, and pleaded with him to come home. Back in August, he did it again, but I did nothing. I think he was caught off-guard. I suspect he didn't anticipate how things would unfold.

He returned home for a few weeks, staying in a spare bedroom. Things were cordial, friendly even. Until he started coming home at 3-4 am or staying out all night with another woman. I told him he "had to go" if he was going to see other people.

Do you still work together or own a business together?

We still own a very small family business together. One the two of us started over 22 years ago.

Do you have children together? (especially minor children)

Thankfully, our only child is 28-years-old and lives on his own. He works for us, too. Currently, my SO / his dad is staying with him.

It sounds like he's cheated and flirted with other women. Has this gotten worse?

The company pays for our cellphones so I have account access. I try not to look, but in the last month there have been frequent contacts with a woman that he's been in touch with for the last few months. I suspect that there is some physical relationship, but it is mostly emotional / mutually supportive. I know her well enough to know she's ended a couple fairly-serious relationships within the last year.

Another contact is someone whose area code matches an area code of a recent "guy's weekend", a six-hour drive away. I suspect it's some woman that he met out of town. He's either already been with her or he's still pursuing her.

Would you rather he try to fix things, or would you rather he leave?

As sappy as it sounds, I still feel like he's "my soulmate" / "the love of my life". On one hand, I can't imagine giving him one more chance to screw me over again. On the other hand, I can't imagine spending my life with anyone else.

He refuses to declare that "it's over" or "we're done". When I try to clarify our status, he starts an old circular argument about "nothing ever changes". As you may suspect, he doesn't lift a finger, but expects me to do acrobatics to... .I don't even know what and I don't think he does for sure, either. Our unprofitable business is a major factor. If it weren't a legitimate complaint, then it would just be something else. You know what I mean?

I don't want him to be with me because of the business, the house, or the "stuff". Yet, I want him to understand that I'm not going quietly. Both of our lives will be turned inside out and upside down.

Our very modest house is almost paid for, but the business is hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt. Our best chance of getting out from underneath that debt is to make the business profitable. He's a key employee that sabotages his own success.

I would do anything to fix the business, yet he thwarts my efforts. As much as I would like to meet my business' obligations, I refuse to spend several more years on a turnaround while he acts like a bachelor.

It was about a year ago that I got around to my tenth amateur diagnosis. After ADD, alcoholism, breathing disorder, sleep disorder, etc., I learned about BPD. I haven't breathed a word to him about it. For months, while trying to silently decide for myself if a BPD partner would be something I could live with for the rest of my life, HE left ME.

[Daniell85]

That letter is not going to get you much of anywhere, except more conflict. I agree with the other poster, it helps to write out things, but not so helpful to actually send it.

You seem to be giving ultimatums. I totally understand the impulse, it's like all of the hurt and frustration and feelings of being damaged by someone who is not taking you seriously and darn it take me seriously now!

I go there, too.

Then I calm down and remember the best way to protect myself is to take action for myself, because my BPD ex has already shown he is so entrenched in his behavior and mindset, that he is not going to act on my behalf. Frankly some people have such a trigger over ultimatums, that they choose the opposite of what you hope they will out of rage and a desire to inflict more hurt onto you.

The cheating. I am so sorry someone you have loved so much is hurting you that way    I have been there, too. Nothing I have ever said, asked, did... ever got my ex to stop with those kinds of antics. Even if he wasn't outright cheating, he constantly skirts the edge of it. Completely gut wrenching.

So how do you protect yourself for real? How to stabilize your own self and handle how you are feeling so your days don't completely suck, leaving you torn up, angry, wanting to lash out.

I have those questions too for myself. After the damage I have taken, my thoughts and feelings are all over the place from hurt to anger, wanting to make the man just stop. Well they don't want to stop.

The only things I have found that starts to put sanity back into my life are boundaries, detachment, and NC. You have made a boundary that he cannot be in the house while he is seeing other women.

You told him he had to go? Did he leave the house you share? This boundary relies on HIM taking action. So it's not really a boundary. What action can you take?

[formflier]

I'm glad you found us.  You are among friends and safe people that can help you sort out the mess you find yourself in.

Take a deep breath and notice how I wrote that,

We can help you sort out the mess you find yourself in,

Much of what you will learn here will be about choices you can make.  Very high success rate since you control your choices.

Just keep that concept in your head, don't take any action now, just think about it and post your reactions.

The letter:  Please don't send it.  Please keep writing letters like that and getting your stuff on paper to examine.

I am a person that likes to write and send letters.  I can focus my words by doing that.  Even well written letters usually "go wrong" when put in the hands of my wife, who is a disordered person.  Their ability to twist things is amazing.

Full disclosure:  I'm a Christian guy, these boards are secular.  That being said:  I recommend "Love must be tough" by James Dobson.  He writes from a Christian point of view but seems very down to earth and does not write as a theologian.  To me, comes across as a wise man that happens to have a PhD and be Christian.  Anyway there are examples in their of some very effective letters and he does a good job of explaining the theory behind those letters.

Hint:  It's all about respect,

 

Most of us here on this board can all to well identify with your pain.  On days when you just want to vent, or tell someone you are hurting, these boards are a safe place to go.   



FF

[Grey Kitty]

  When I read your answers, I got the sense that you are somewhere between stuck and entangled with him.

With you and him owning a business and your son working for it, the business badly in debt, and his mental illness causing him to self-sabotage the business, keeping it in debt, that is a lot of stuff to separate, and it will probably have some really high emotional and financial costs to split up completely. (I'll guess that the home you are living in today has both you and him on the title as well, adding more!)

I'm not convinced that cutting ties and moving on with your life is the best or right option for you. I'm not even trying to suggest that you try to do this, although you're obviously thinking about it already.

I do want to challenge you to think fairly hard about it from a practical version.

First off, you've established that he doesn't want to just leave. He won't do this. He will stay with you, stay involved with you, and continue to repeat all the bad behavior he's been doing for years, cheating, being abusive to you, etc. So if you and he are going to truly split, YOU have to do it, and he probably won't make it easy.

The best way out for you would involve leaving the business as an active employee, finding other employment (assuming you need income to support yourself), living separately from him, and starting to cut all financial ties and joint assets with him. (Expecting him to handle this as badly as he handles other things!)

Before you can choose this option, or even compare it to other choices, try to make a realistic assessment of what it will be like.

[tonkaster]

It is so inspiring for me that you all have taken so much precious time to help me along. I fully intend to pay it forward.

While I haven’t been much of a poster on this board, I’m further along in the process than I may have conveyed.

Since my realization a year ago that my high-functioning partner likely has BPD or exhibits BPD-type behavior, I have read thousands of pages of books. I attended webinars. I started therapy. For the first time in my life, I am sufficiently being medicated for my clinical depression. Also, I have been working out on a regular basis. My support system has risen to the occasion. The number of people in my social network has doubled and I’ve been intentionally increasing participation. I even had my blond, highlighted hair dyed dark brown! (As you can see, “nothing ever changes”. Ha ha.)

My focus has been on myself, the only person I can change. Yet, some of my newly-developed skills have made a noticeable difference in our interactions. I hardly ever JADE anymore. Consciously, I avoid being invalidating. Conversely, my validating skills have improved every relationship I can think of. And so on.

Along the way, I have stood up for my mental health. In addition to asking him to leave if he intends to see other people, I declined his first request to move back home. After he left home in August, returning home didn’t mean reconciliation to either of us. He was merely dissatisfied with his current housing situation.

While it may not be “fair” to him or classical boundary-setting, I am still floored by the fact that he honored both of my “demands”. It turned me on my head to think that all this time I may have had more power than I thought. I had always felt like a helpless tiny leaf tossed around on his raging river of misbehavior.

For fifteen to twenty years of our relationship, we had been inseparable. Since then, we ultimately have drifted so far apart that there was nearly no non-work-related interaction.

Three months ago, I did lay out the same conditions in my letter. He wouldn’t commit to choosing either way. I suggested that, while he took time to think things over, that we try getting together and doing fun things – just the two of us. There were a few weekends of movie nights. Barely more than a month ago, we went out of town for the weekend. Kissing, but no sex. I’m not going to be with him if there’s any chance he’s going to be with someone else. When I insisted on him putting some effort into initiating contact and activities, he made somewhat of an effort, which has declined into nothing.

Where this leads me today… I could really go either way whether we try to save our relationship or not. I still love him, and always will. I am still attracted to him and enjoy some of our time together. (Like any good co-dependent worth their salt) I fear he may subconsciously believe that he doesn’t “deserve” a healthy relationship. In light of his BPD symptoms, I am fully aware that the likelihood of us working things out for any length of time are in single-digit percentages. If he’s going to continue to act out, which is far more realistic, I’m not the least bit interested in maintaining a relationship with him.

Due to us running our small business together, NC isn’t currently an option. Although I desperately long for us to live “happily ever after”, I fully intend to take the reins and proceed with the split.

On my own, I’ve made lists of assets to be divided and started envisioning what my future might look like as a single person. The business will close. Anything that can be liquidated will be. We will haggle over the house. What I don’t want to happen is that the sh—hits the fan and then he has the realization that it’s not what he really wants.



Once, a long time ago, I gave my dear best friend an ultimatum. It didn’t go my way and I learned an excruciatingly painful lesson. In the 30 years with my uBPDbf, I have never issued an ultimatum, knowing that I wasn’t ready to follow through on it. It is only now that I feel like I’m in a place where I can’t lose either way: either he straightens out or he’s gone.

Like many of you veterans of BPD relationships, I have also participated on Anything to Stop the Pain, Out of the Fog, and Welcome to OZ. To me, BPD Family seems to be the most balanced. The fact that I can post the things I did and receive zero judgement, just support, is phenomenal. You all “Get It”.

[Grey Kitty]

You've got a lot of tough choices ahead of you, and you are sounding pretty realistic about them.

 The recent changes in your own life sound fantastic. Congratulations! And keep building on your successes there!

I do want to suggest you consider something that might seem a bit off-the-wall with him:

He may not be capable of being faithful to you. (Whether he promises it or not) Some people really aren't wired to be monogamous. In addition, some people don't have the emotional maturity to make a monogamous relationship work well. (This second part sure sounds a lot like how he's been operating; I've got no idea about the first part in his case.)

Think long and hard about what you could accept from him in a relationship where you share the business, possibly live together, possibly are romantically involved, and you don't expect him to be monogamous / faithful to you.

You may find that you cannot be romantically/sexually involved with him if he isn't monogamous.

You may want to keep running the business with him even if the romantic relationship ends.

Think about it. The "traditional" or "normal" options aren't looking very likely. You might surprise yourself in how you feel about other possibilities.

[tonkaster]

Several times, I have asked him if he would prefer non-monogamy, adding that monogamy isn’t for everybody. I told him neither monogamy and non-monogamy are neither good nor bad. They just “are”. He denies desiring non-monogamy. I don't know if it is because he really believes it or he thinks saying "no" is the "right" answer. I believe he is aware I don't want to go the non-monogamy route.

There are two reasons that haven’t proposed an open relationship. First of all, I don’t think it is for me. Secondarily, twenty years ago, when he suspected me of cheating, he reacted aggressively.

The only way I can ever picture myself open to an open relationship would be for that relationship to be secure and stable and it would be open for both people. The trust would have to be established first. THAT ain't happening any time soon!

My uBPDbf is a cheater and is mean to me. Either being treated like a princess, but cheated on or treated like sh--, but faithful are unlikely to be workable for me. Both? Not anymore! I would rather be alone and I am fully OK with that.

Our business is unprofitable, severely in debt, and rewards our hard work with below minimum wage. We are unable to pay the business bills, house bills, afford entertainment, or prepare for retirement. In the loonnngggg haul, it could be workable. I will accept most of the responsibility for the current state. Most of the problems are due to me reacting poorly to his dysfunction. Since that realization, the attempts I have made to make the business profitable are road blocked by his BPD behavior.

I can’t say “I’ve thought of everything” or “I’ve tried everything”. Pretty damn close, but I am too close to see the forest for the trees. Keep those ideas coming!

[Grey Kitty]

I commend your discussions about non-monogamy. I'm also not surprised that he didn't express interest... .or that he was terribly jealous... .My experience with non-monogamy and pwBPD kinda confirms that pwBPD don't do relationships well, and that adding partners doesn't make it better. Sigh.

My uBPDbf is a cheater and is mean to me. Either being treated like a princess, but cheated on or treated like sh--, but faithful are unlikely to be workable for me. Both? Not anymore! I would rather be alone and I am fully OK with that.

Those are two completely different issues... .what is important about them is that you have different tools and options available to you.

Cheating is something he does. You have no control. You cannot stop him. You cannot prevent it. Bluntly, your only tool about his cheating is you decide not to be in a relationship with somebody who cheats. It is harsh, but it is all you've got.

Being mean to you is different. I would rephrase it behaving abusively toward you. I'm guessing it is only emotional and verbal abuse, but that is truly horrible to live with. I know all too well.

The difference is that you have an option--you can remove yourself from his presence (temporarily while he is being abusive), and then the abuse of you stops immediately. Whether he wants it to stop or not... .he can keep yelling, or laying down guilt trips, but there is nobody there to hear it.

I made that change in my marriage. (I say it like it was easy... .no, it wasn't, but it was worth it) If you want to try this, we are here to support you and point you at the tools you need to do it.

Given the other changes you've made in your life, I am sure you can do it if you choose to and have the right support while you do it.

[tonkaster]

Yes, I have had to accept that he will not behave in a way I desire. My only option is to remove myself from the relationship.

Hence, my willingness to "throw down the gauntlet". It is not intended as being inflammatory, just wake-up call or a "last call" as the barkeep says.

What I'm trying to say is:

"Choose your path.

"Stay and be prepared and willing for to negotiate the most difficult road of your life. You're the only person that I'm willing to fight this hard for.

"Or

"Feel free to let go and and let the chips fall where they may. But you might not like the way things turn out."

Of course, I'm angry and hurt. Yet, surprisingly neutral and willing to accept his decision. And, if he's not going to make an active decision, then not deciding means "no".

Either I draw a line in the sand or throw in the towel. Status quo is a "no go" for me.

[patientandclear]

Given where you are and how sure you are about not wanting the status quo--I love your letter.  I think it accomplishes what you say you what to accomplish. It was inspiring. I wish I had ever communicated my position that clearly on writing. I did a time or two in a conversation, but that is so easily lost.

[Grey Kitty]

My suggestion would be telling him this part:

"Choose your path.

"Stay and be prepared and willing for to negotiate the most difficult road of your life. You're the only person that I'm willing to fight this hard for.

And stopping there.

You know how DONE you are with the status quo. You've tried to warn him a few times before, I'm sure. Since the other path is one where you go away from him, you don't need to warn, threaten, or make an ultimatum out of it. Just start walking.

It is your letter... .think about what you want to say and how you want to say it. We'll be happy to review it again if you've refined things.

 This is a really tough places to be.

[formflier]

 

Less is more. 

Be clear that

1.  You want him to stay

2.  He has choices you will honor (to stay or go)

The theory is to "open the cage door" and see if he flies away or comes back.  No chasing, no enabling. 

FF

[tonkaster]

Oh my gosh! You guys are so good at this!



I like to fancy myself a great communicator, yet I'm learning how much I actually don't know.

Previously, this was a conversation. It would be alot for anyone to digest. With all due respect, perhaps massively overwhelming for a person with a BPD filter.

[Grey Kitty]

I may seem to be some sort of wizard here, and while I have learned a lot of hard lessons, please remember that I'm able to make all these suggestions from the safe place of typing on a computer suggestions for somebody I'll never meet to say to somebody else I'll never meet. My home, my job, and my relationship are not at stake. When I'm personally invested, it is waaaaaay harder for me too!

And you are correct--it is much harder to communicate well with a pwBPD, given how easily they get set off and emotionally flooded and lose ability to listen at that point. Which is why we have some tools to make it go better.

Anyhow, you sound like you really want to give him one last chance, with both of you working on fixing things. Here's how I see it going:

1. You offer him the invitation. (We'll critique your next revision if you like.)

2. He accepts it. (It may not go that way, but this is what I'm talking about right now)

3. You focus on working on the only area you can change things--on your side of the relationship.

Lets work on planning some of that out, in a realistic way.

I'm going to assume that he is willing to try, but will struggle with it, which means that some of the old issues that hurt you so much will come back up, even though he is trying not to. So you need better tools to deal with them. Especially the mean/abusive treatment.

[formflier]

 



Again, welcome to the community.  No wizards here, just people that have learned hard truths (I think "truth" is much stronger than lesson, I'm a words guy, )

I second GKs assertion that typing from a computer is much safer.  It's also easier to analyze some else's situation.

GK,

How many times have your reminded me of simple truths (such as my wife wanting space) in my threads, that I should/would be easy to pick out in some else's thread? 

Tonkaster,

Eventually you will be able to do that for others as well.  For now, let's focus on getting your smarter about the "theory" of this.  I'm less interesting in telling you exactly how to write your letter than making sure you understand the "principles" behind why a letter should or should not say certain things to a pwBPD.

Also with the knowledge that in some cases, you will make a decision to say "effe it", I'm going to say it my way.  With full knowledge that there will be a train wreck, and you will use tools to clean up the carnage later.

Choices put power back in your hands, once you realize that you have power you will have hope. 

Once you have hope, you have a future, a life.

FF

[patientandclear]

Earlier in this thread, GK (I think) distinguished between the mean/abusive behavior, which boundaries etc can address, and the cheating behavior, which likely either has to be accepted or the relationship has to end.  GK's plan above doesn't make provision for the cheating behavior.  Tonkaster has already said she does not want to be in an open relationship.  So ... .venturing into a plan to "work on it" where T understands he is not going to change that behavior, and she can't make him, seems like walking into what she says she can't tolerate any more.

What I liked about the letter as written is that it clearly states that she won't continue to engage in a non-monogamous relationship.  I don't see a plan for that in the approach suggested above.

[formflier]

What I liked about the letter as written is that it clearly states that she won't continue to engage in a non-monogamous relationship.  I don't see a plan for that in the approach suggested above.

That is part of the "open the cage door" approach. 

Two people made agreements and choices to begin the r/s a long time ago, things change over time.  It's obvious that one partner is "tugging away", perhaps wanting to be chased, perhaps other motives.

Most likely is getting something from the dysfunction or enjoys some sort of "reaction" from tonkaster.  (Not implying tonkaster has any "fault" here)

Tonkasters responsibility here is to clearly search herself and figure out under what conditions the r/s can continue, without using blame, but in a clear, caring, but businesslike manner.

Some elements for the letter

I respect you and your choices.  My hearts desire is to continue a monogamous r/s with you.  If you wish to live your life in a different manner I will respect your choice, move on with my life and will value our time together.

Somehow, without it sounding threatening, need to say that you will not be waiting around for long.  Perhaps hand him the letter and say you would like to discuss his choice the following weekend. 

The key is that he see you as an independent person that is going to make her own choices, not as someone that will be waiting around after each dalliance.  Perhaps he will decide to "chase" and do the work required to "capture" you again.  Perhaps he will decide it is not worth his effort.

Respect either choice he makes.

Then live your life

FF

[Cat Familiar]

My first marriage was much like yours, tonkaster. We owned a business together, my husband sabotaged my attempts to grow the business, he couldn't keep it in his pants and had numerous one nighters with friends, strangers and prostitutes. He was also verbally and physically abusive.

I reached the end of my rope one night after he attacked me and chased me down our driveway. That night I slept alone with a knife in my hand and told myself that if he attacked me in my sleep, I would do evertyhing in my power to defend myself. Fortunately that didn't occur. The next morning I told him our marriage was over. He couldn't believe that I just wouldn't forgive him as I always did.

Tonnkaster, you sound like you're done. Only a miracle could change what you've been dealing with all these years.

It was hard to extract myself, but I did it. Yet I'm now in another marriage with a pwBPD, but this one is kind and the annoyances I deal with are minimal, yet still irritating.

Good luck on your journey.  

[formflier]

 

Tonkaster,

I'm a stayer at heart.  So many of my words will seem to "push" in that direction.

I also agree with Cat Familiar that you sound done.  If you are, and have been done for several weeks (not I was pissed for a night or two after (fill in the blank)), then you should honor those feelings with, something.

Perhaps it is a stronger version of the "open the cage door".  You file for divorce and offer him a divorce settlement or a post-nuptial agreement that codifies how the marriage can continue.  He will fell controlled, let him.  I'm a Christian guy, also a big farming background.  You reap a harvest of what you sow. 

Let him know it's harvest time and you are preparing to plant a new crop.  He can be part of that, or not,

You have the tractor hooked up and are ready to head out to disc field that has been sitting through a cold hard winter.   He should also know that last falls harvest has spoiled in the grain silo because he forgot to run the dryer, if you want to be pissy about it you can remind him that you told him he better run the dryer, or else.

Think the farming analogy works? First time I've ever tried it,   Tonkaster may be a city slicker, not sure.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Tonkaster, you have to decide what sort of a last chance you want to give your partner.

All of us here have our own history with situations that are similar in one way or another, and our own regrets over what we did, what we didn't do, and how long it took us to decide. In other words, we all have our own bias, and were we to be in your shoes, we would make a variety of different choices.

Take that with a grain of salt, and choose what is right for you.

If you are feeling all-over-the-place emotionally, going back and forth, that is OK for a while, but if you stay there too long it gets unhealthy and uncomfortable.

Once you decide, we will support you in implementing it the best you can. This is a big community, and if some people cannot support a decision to stay or a decision to leave, they may well back away, and others who can will step up.

[patientandclear]

I love the farming analogy!

But now, FF, your recommendation is veering toward the other side of the continuum from Grey Kitty's gentle "offer to try again, he accepts, you accept you can't change him, you work on your own side of the street" approach.  File for divorce as a communication strategy feels pretty extreme, maybe unnecessarily so.  (Not saying Tonkaster may not file for divorce, but with that as the plan for communication ... .not sure that meets her needs to have clearly stated when it is not too late what she needs and wants.)

So I'm not sure what is wrong with her original letter.  It clearly states that it is not too late BUT that the only way she is going forward is on certain conditions, and if he deviates from those core values (monogamy), it will be done for good.

FormFlier's revised "open cage door" approach is just a simplified version of the same, which also seems good.

I feel like the early responses on this thread assumed her highest value is saving the relationship.  I don't hear that being the case.  Tonkaster articulated that her goal is not to continue in the status quo, not to knowingly keep doing the thing that has been so hurtful.  All the posters seem to agree the guy is very unlikely to stop his meandering and dalliances.  So ... .not sure where the encouragement to be so cautious in articulating her bottom line is coming from. CatFamiliar is basically saying there is no chance he will change on this point, but Tonkaster said she wants not to take the chance that he says later he didn't realize how serious she was.  Avoiding that potential regret makes sense to me.

My ex later told me he felt I had let him down by not telling him my bottom line.  He urged me to tell him what I needed so he would have a chance to provide it and therefore keep me in his life.  In fact, when I took him at his word and told him what I felt and what I needed, he didn't handle it well, as I had expected ... .That fear, and avoiding his likely mistreatment of me, had kept me from saying what I needed for a long time, and that unhealthy behavior was on me.  His original point was a fair one: if you have a bottom line, and have arrived at the point where you are sure you no longer want to continue as things have been, it is fair, just, honorable and kind to tell the other person.  Then, as FF says, he can make his choices.

I think FF's instinct is to doublecheck and make sure there is no gratuitous anger or unkindness in that communication, and that makes sense.  A "bottom line" communication is already hard to receive and process, so making sure there is no extra emotion that becomes a distraction from the core message seems like a good idea.

Tonkaster, none of this is to say that if you've changed your mind about your willingness to re-enter the current dynamic, you shouldn't do that.  My comments are relevant if you still feel as you felt when you started this thread.

[Cat Familiar]

I'm not exactly saying that he won't commit to being faithful in your marriage, but a tomcat doesn't change his stripes overnight.

I put that ultimatum to my ex some years before I ended the relationship and though he never admitted to cheating again, I did find evidence that he was covering his tracks. The problem with pwBPD is, from my experience, that they have a sense of entitlement and low impulse control.

Making fidelity a deal breaker might just create resentment and more abusive behavior on his part.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm not exactly saying that he won't commit to being faithful in your marriage, but a tomcat doesn't change his stripes overnight.

Or in other words, a even a genuine (and ultimately successful) effort to change this on his part will almost certainly have setbacks and slipups on his part before he gets it right.

[tonkaster]

Each of your responses are like little treasures. No worries regarding me blindly following suggestions. I excel at distilling information into my own recipe.

There’s claims that no wizards reside here. Better yet, there are people that have “been there”. Nobody else understands the phenomenal magnetism of a person with BPD. Magnetism which flies us through fields of red flags, defying any gravity an objective, rational brain would be forced to acknowledge.

The lessons you all have learned from wounds that left scars are permanently etched. Your insight into insidious, but typical for BPDs, situations is exceptional.

This process alone has been therapeutic for me. On “paper”, it’s clearer that my hope of successful reconciliation and a healthy relationship are almost certainly an unrealistic fantasy.

One clarification, we never did marry. When I got accidentally pregnant at 19, it was already a huge stressor to our relationship. Being the child of divorced parents, I knew pregnancy was not a good foundation for a successful marriage. Since then, there’s actually been very little conversation about marrying. I never ever felt like our relationship was on solid ground.

Good news: we don’t have to legally divorce. Bad news: we don’t have the benefit of a legal structure, nor can there be the “cold water in the face” realization upon filing that this sh—is getting serious!

I don’t have to tell this group that every person with BPD characteristics is unique. Oddly, though, my uBPDbf never recycled me. It could be that he just doesn’t feel motivated in that way. Almost certainly, my immediate flat out panic every time he left me didn’t allow for him to have to make any effort toward recycling.

In my opinion, it’s just another nail in the coffin of our zombie (dead, yet un-dead) relationship. He would have to be astoundingly motivated to work on our relationship. It’s just not there.

Good point, Grey Kitty! Relapse would be probable even in the remote chance of successful recovery. My brain wonders why I would even consider leaving myself open to that.

Catfamiliar’s observation “…they have a sense of entitlement and low impulse control” is spot-on for my experience. My uBPDbf has never “come clean” without me confronting him with irrefutable evidence. Even in the event he admits to anything, it is always justified (insert whatever my failing or perceived failing is here) and astoundingly minimized. (Yeah, I’m sure you went on a date with her but you slept on the couch and she went to her own bed after nothing happened!) He usually makes an effort to cover his tracks, but he makes mistakes. Now, he’s not really bothering, yet there’s no volunteering information.

You, Patientandclear, did a fantastic job of picking up on the subtler aspects of my posts as well as helping to keep the reconciliation theme relevant!

Formflier’s farming analogy was hysterical! I laughed when I read it. The irony (one of my favorite things) is that my uBPDbf grew up as a farmboy. He would probably “get it” in a way that I wouldn’t be able to fully appreciate!

Thanks to all!

P.S. Why does this website convert [INSERT NAME BRAND VACUUM CLEANER STARTING WITH THE LETTER "H" HERE] to an equivalent version of "charm"?

[formflier]

Making fidelity a deal breaker might just create resentment and more abusive behavior on his part.

Which is why Tonkaster needs to focus on more than just the letter, before she sends the letter.

From a certain point of view, detaching may be easier.

If she sends the letter and he says I am in, I will do what it takes, but her boundaries and resolve are not up to snuff,

He will push and test, hopefully not with a deal breaker kinda thing.  If he does, she MUST be ready to "break the deal"

Oh, let him feel the resentment he may have from "feeling controlled",  Choices have consequences, and obligations.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Good point, Grey Kitty! Relapse would be probable even in the remote chance of successful recovery. My brain wonders why I would even consider leaving myself open to that.

Catfamiliar’s observation “…they have a sense of entitlement and low impulse control” is spot-on for my experience. My uBPDbf has never “come clean” without me confronting him with irrefutable evidence. Even in the event he admits to anything, it is always justified (insert whatever my failing or perceived failing is here) and astoundingly minimized. (Yeah, I’m sure you went on a date with her but you slept on the couch and she went to her own bed after nothing happened!) He usually makes an effort to cover his tracks, but he makes mistakes. Now, he’s not really bothering, yet there’s no volunteering information.

His inability to come clean sounds pretty hard to deal with. If he was able to do that, but then slipped up again anyway (low impulse control), I'd have a bit more hope.

I'm afraid that any future you plan on with him involves him sleeping with other women, no matter whether you do with him or not.

[tonkaster]

"I'm afraid that any future you plan on with him involves him sleeping with other women, no matter whether you do with him or not."

Multiple times I have told him that he can have sex with me but no one else in the world or he can have sex with anyone he wants but he can't have sex with me.

My opinion is that it would take gargantuan motivation to seek and follow through with therapy, etc. for monogamy to be a possibility for him, even if he wanted to.

Not happening.

[formflier]

Then you have your answer, right?

FF