Questions about the concept of a soulmate and past history

[unicorn2014]

Hi everyone, I'm trying to take a step back from my own relationship and contemplate relationships as a whole. A couple of questions have come up recently, both as a result of these boards and the most recent conflict with my partner. I had a couple of questions I was turning over in my mind and wondered if others had thought about these things.

My first question or thought is about the concept of a soulmate or the one. My partner believes I am his soulmate. As a result of both our relationship  and my previous divorce, I no longer believe in soulmates. I noticed that the dating board seems to be about finding your soulmate. I'm wondering if I feel the way I do because I've outgrown the concept of a soulmate.

The other thing I've been thinking about which pertains to my most recent conflict with my partner is how much do you tell your partner in the beginning of the relationship? I now think I told my partner too much in the beginning of the relationship because now he has information about me that could really push my buttons. I don't know if I've developed a coping or survival skill for being in a relationship with a borderline partner, or again I have matured. I'm thinking now that you don't tell your current partner about your past partners.  Do other people on this board have thoughts about that? Has anyone else had their perspectives shift as the result of a relationship with a borderline partner?

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi unicorn2014,

Quite frankly, Because of my reading and learning on this site, I now see the concept of 'soulmate' as a red flag.  I see it as a possible tool for another to use to paint the fantasy they believe or want me to believe in.  I cannot recall if I thought my ex was a 'soulmate,' however, I do remember thinking we were mostly made for each other.

I also have thought that sometimes I disclosed more than is healthy in my past relationships.  I have wondered if this would come back to haunt me.  Sometimes it did, sometimes not.  My perspective on this has changed a bit. 

I no longer see the act of disclosing as a problem of mine... .so long as I am aware and honest about my motives for disclosure.

Am I disclosing to get something?  Such as attention, affection, or sympathy?  Sometimes in the past I have felt nervous on a topic and disclosed as an unconscious way to relieve that anxiety... .to take charge of the conversation.  Sometimes in the past my self disclosure was a way to be in a victim role.

I feel that for me today... .

The healthiest disclosure is one that is allowed to happen naturally as a result of what comes up naturally.  Not through 'force' of some kind, either his or mine.  Disclosure without much anxiety is what I aim for... .if I'm anxious, I try to listen, pause and ask myself why?  I remind myself that I can always pause, and get back to a topic.

If my partner is using this info against me, that would be an issue... .but his issue, not mine.  (Well, yes, by extension... .this would then be an issue that I cannot trust my partner with a certain amount of intimacy... .as self disclosure is an intimate thing for me)

I hope to find a partner that is mostly compassionate and kind towards my past.

~Sunflower

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey unicorn-

My first question or thought is about the concept of a soulmate or the one. My partner believes I am his soulmate. As a result of both our relationship  and my previous divorce, I no longer believe in soulmates. I noticed that the dating board seems to be about finding your soulmate. I'm wondering if I feel the way I do because I've outgrown the concept of a soulmate.

I don't believe in soulmates either, and the concept of one strikes me as a little naive, along the lines of the perfect relationship or one that was "meant to be".  That said, ever notice how people who like the same things tend to like each other?  And how some personalities are more compatible than others?  So a good relationship is one in which both partners have significant things in common, maybe most importantly values and life goals, and then that basic compatibility that allows them to mesh to the point that they can resolve issues when there are challenges in the relationship, to the point that they actually get resolved and the relationship ends up stronger as a result.  It's work, but the best kind, so who do we want to do the work with?  And the best matches feel like the least amount of work.

The other thing I've been thinking about which pertains to my most recent conflict with my partner is how much do you tell your partner in the beginning of the relationship? I now think I told my partner too much in the beginning of the relationship because now he has information about me that could really push my buttons. I don't know if I've developed a coping or survival skill for being in a relationship with a borderline partner, or again I have matured. I'm thinking now that you don't tell your current partner about your past partners.  Do other people on this board have thoughts about that? Has anyone else had their perspectives shift as the result of a relationship with a borderline partner?

Everything shifted as a result of my relationship with a borderline, borne out of the pain of that relationship and the digging required to detach and heal.  And it was also a great example of what I definitely don't want, which raises the question, what do I want?

Whether or not we discuss past partners is less important than why.  If someone is still bitter towards an ex then maybe they're not in a place to start a new relationship yet, or continual prying into the exes is usually a sign of jealousy, which is a sign of insecurity, and that's either attractive to us or it's not.

Now how much sharing early?  Depends.  There's a bunch of relationship advice that promotes sharing something small, noticing what the reaction of the other person is and whether or not they reciprocate, and then sharing a little more.  A little too analytical for me, I go more on feel, and I've actually been spewing my truth more freely on purpose lately, with a bunch of people, for a couple of reasons: I want to be open and honest with people and build real relationships, one, and two, it's a pretty effective way to see who we want to keep in our lives and who we don't pretty quickly.  It's said the older we get the harder it is to make friends and I'm not getting any younger, so let fly with the goods, nurture the positive relationships, let the other ones go; life is too short for silliness.

[unicorn2014]

Hi unicorn2014,

Quite frankly, Because of my reading and learning on this site, I now see the concept of 'soulmate' as a red flag.  I see it as a possible tool for another to use to paint the fantasy they believe or want me to believe in.  I cannot recall if I thought my ex was a 'soulmate,' however, I do remember thinking we were mostly made for each other.

Thank you! I agree. Now, if I think about my partner, I can see a lot of ways in which he is matched to me, but soulmate? I think that's an immature concept of love, and it is true that my partner had never fallen in love with anyone before he met me, but I'm an old hand at falling in love due to my romantic temperament so I'm glad to be free of that concept once and for all. At my age and stage, the concept of soulmate seems outdated.

I also have thought that sometimes I disclosed more than is healthy in my past relationships.  I have wondered if this would come back to haunt me.  Sometimes it did, sometimes not.  My perspective on this has changed a bit. 

I've only had two major relationships: my marriage and the one I'm in now. I regret the things I told my current partner and I also know I didn't understand his personality at all when I was disclosing these things. A former therapist used to tell me I didn't need to tell my partner everything. My partner on the other hand disagreed with my therapist, he has some very unhealthy  ideas on intimacy, at least in that they conflicted with my former therapists.

I no longer see the act of disclosing as a problem of mine... .so long as I am aware and honest about my motives for disclosure.

I am glad to hear that you can recover from that. My partner used to tell me I didn't need to disclose everything, however given the fact that he used to be murky I'm a bit distrustful of that coming from him. This also taps into some coping issues I have yet to explore about some of the messages my dad gave me about privacy, intrusiveness, nosiness, that I'm not sure are correct.

If my partner is using this info against me, that would be an issue... .but his issue, not mine.  (Well, yes, by extension... .this would then be an issue that I cannot trust my partner with a certain amount of intimacy... .as self disclosure is an intimate thing for me)

In my case my partner wasn't using it against me per se but it still made me uncomfortable. I told him something that a former partner had said about depression medication and orgasm and then he repeated this back to me. I think it was more of a shock then anything else to hear that because that relationship was a problem.

He also was too quick to disclose too much about his past. That's the other side of it, what do you do when someone is telling you something you don't want to hear? That's a tough one that I don't know how to answer.

Thank you for answering.

I hope you can also find a partner who is compassionate towards you.

[unicorn2014]

Hey unicorn-

My first question or thought is about the concept of a soulmate or the one. My partner believes I am his soulmate. As a result of both our relationship  and my previous divorce, I no longer believe in soulmates. I noticed that the dating board seems to be about finding your soulmate. I'm wondering if I feel the way I do because I've outgrown the concept of a soulmate.

I don't believe in soulmates either, and the concept of one strikes me as a little naive, along the lines of the perfect relationship or one that was "meant to be".  That said, ever notice how people who like the same things tend to like each other?  And how some personalities are more compatible than others?  So a good relationship is one in which both partners have significant things in common, maybe most importantly values and life goals, and then that basic compatibility that allows them to mesh to the point that they can resolve issues when there are challenges in the relationship, to the point that they actually get resolved and the relationship ends up stronger as a result.  It's work, but the best kind, so who do we want to do the work with?  And the best matches feel like the least amount of work.

Thank you heal to heel, that makes a lot of sense, and I appreciate being validated by you as well that the concept of a soulmate is a bit outdated.

Whether or not we discuss past partners is less important than why.  If someone is still bitter towards an ex then maybe they're not in a place to start a new relationship yet, or continual prying into the exes is usually a sign of jealousy, which is a sign of insecurity, and that's either attractive to us or it's not.

In my case the relationship was short term so it was not an ex, but he had told me something shocking and when my partner repeated it back to me it was disturbing. I told my partner please do not bring that up again and that I regretted telling him about it and then he got upset and said people should discuss their past history with each other. I don't know about that. The older we get the less we form relationships based on common experience but more on common interest so its goes without saying that we don't have the safety of a classroom or school or church to get to know our partner. Does that make any sense?

[fromheeltoheal]

The older we get the less we form relationships based on common experience but more on common interest so its goes without saying that we don't have the safety of a classroom or school or church to get to know our partner. Does that make any sense?

Cool take on things.  I agree that relationships are built more on common interest as we age, and that's better than common experience to me; we're hanging out with people because we want to be instead of sharing an experience where the experience is the focus and they just happen to be there.  I made the mistake in my youth that just because I was doing something with someone that meant we were friends, without really paying much attention to who they were, back when I focused on human doings instead of human beings.

I get what you mean by 'safety' although I don't like the term.  Really we're hanging out with folks in an environment where we are not each other's focus, the environment is, so we get a chance to observe and maybe get to know someone without an agenda.  I agree we have fewer of those experiences as we age, or they're harder to come by and need to be created, although we also get better at 'knowing who someone is' more quickly and deciding whom we want to hang out with, with the wisdom of time and experience behind it.  I'm talking about meeting people in general though, which has always worked best for me, meeting new potential partners through people I already know, a certain amount of social proof both ways, which can be a springboard to getting to know someone at least.

[Sunfl0wer]

 

When I was in my early 20's, I had some idea that full disclosure about all things was absolutely necessary.  I have no idea where I got this from.  I think I wanted to be sure the person loved ALL of me, therefore, I felt they had to know every event of my life before I met them... .in order to love me.  My therapist told me that is not a good idea, better to remain a mystery.  I see her point now.  There are things that people do not need to know about me.  It is just not necessary and will not affect anything.  When it is necessary and does affect something, then it may be ok to disclose.

Now I realize that I am not the sum of the things from my past.  I am who I am today and there is enough lovable stuff here right now... .and connecting with the present me is what matters to me now.

I am suspicious when people behave as though some past things are important to them... .I wonder why?  What are they looking for?  Why focus their efforts in the past?

I suppose you are right regarding your dad and boundaries.  I didn't think of it as having anything to do with boundaries, but it certainly does. 

He also was too quick to disclose too much about his past. That's the other side of it, what do you do when someone is telling you something you don't want to hear? That's a tough one that I don't know how to answer.

This is actually something I am working on.  I try to redirect the conversation skillfully.  So, when I say 'try,' I mean what usually ends up happening is I forget how to be tactful enough about it... .am stunned figuring out how to redirect, then am patiently waiting out the conversation until I can get the conversation moving somewhere else.  So I prefer to skillfully redirect mid conversation, I am able to instead wait it out, make a minor comment to acknowledge I heard, then casually move away from the topic. Sometimes the person is left feeling deflated for not getting proper attention for their sharing.  This is good if they feel this and usually a good idea to let them sit with that feeling.  They need to feel that to know it was likely inappropriate to go there with the conversation... .it is good for them to experience this cue.

[unicorn2014]

Cool take on things... .  I'm talking about meeting people in general though, which has always worked best for me, meeting new potential partners through people I already know, a certain amount of social proof both ways, which can be a springboard to getting to know someone at least.

Ty

I like this, and I was told about this although nobody ever did this for me.

I like what you said about the environment being the focus in school or work or church. It is very difficult to form friendships as an adult, that is for sure !

[unicorn2014]

Sunflower, I realized the word I was looking for earlier, deposition. I am trying really hard not to JADE so will have to review that lesson. I catch myself doing it all the time.

In terms of this :

I suppose you are right regarding your dad and boundaries.  I didn't think of it as having anything to do with boundaries, but it certainly do

My dad really hurt my feelings when he said what he did. He had sent me a picture of my mom and their dog and all dressed up and when I expressed shocked my dad shamed me.

I appreciate what you are saying about stopping people mid conversation.

I know someone was saying on the staying board that they don't try and encourage their significant other anymore, they let her feel her feelings.

I don't know where this need to defend myself comes from other then my childhood. I am ooking at whether or not my mother is borderline and all signs point to yes. I've always known she has a problem but I've never had a label for it.

[Sunfl0wer]

My dad really hurt my feelings when he said what he did. He had sent me a picture of my mom and their dog and all dressed up and when I expressed shocked my dad shamed me.

I am sorry that your dad was a source of pain for you.

I don't know where this need to defend myself comes from other then my childhood. I am looking at whether or not my mother is borderline and all signs point to yes. I've always known she has a problem but I've never had a label for it.

In my past, I have found that labeling others has helped to to cope greatly.  I began reading abnormal psychology books as a teen and really enjoyed labeling others because pointing out their dysfunctional spots _{to myself} was so very necessary and felt validating to me.  Being raised in such dysfunction, I did not know which way was up and these books and labels helped me to feel oriented in some direction.  (I still do this a lot in my head, but realize it is not favored by others, therefore keep it to my 'inside voice' as I call it.)

I am not implying one coping mechanism is superior over another... .just sharing my different styles... .

However, nowadays I find myself looking inward... .not so much where I got these coping mechanisms, but where they are now living within me.  As I can do little to change where they originated... .my mom, dad, etc... .I do have the ability to affect and influence how/if 'needs' reside in me.

So when I look inward at my own tendencies to defend myself I see that it lives in my lack of self trust.  When I feel confident and secure with my thoughts and values, I see no need to defend them.  When I am defending them, if I really think about it, I am more likely defending them because I feel insecure about them... .it is as if I am trying to convince myself even more than the other person.

It is no wonder I have self trust issues growing up in such an invalidating childhood, that I would feel insecure in my own thoughts.  I was always questioning myself, others, and even reality, as I felt that what I was living through... .surely could not be allowed to be anyone's reality.  I could not fathom why a child should be put on this earth for what seemed to be the purpose of experiencing great pain.  However, dwelling on this aspect gives me little relief nowadays.

So now a days, when I catch myself JADEing... .I try to trace it inward, to see what need I am trying to fulfill.

For example... .  Yesterday I JADEd at work over a decision I made to a coworker.  When I trace that  thought inside of me, I realize I felt guilty for my decision.  The person was probably correct, I probably could have choose better.  My guilt was self doubt.  So I then am left with just myself to face vs complicating it with anyone else.  I then am left to deal with those guilt feelings, what they mean to me.  I get relief from the guilt by deciding how/if I will do things differently in the future and what is my value that supports the different action to take.  I decide what I actually would do if given a second chance and why... .so that I feel resolved if ever faced with the same or similar situation again.  Situations have a way of repeating themselves like shape shifters that just change their general form... .therefore, this has been helpful to me.  Finding a resolution for a past issue of mine actually helps me feel resolved in the face of several possible events in the future... .making me feel more resolved today... .with a greater sense of self trust.

I hope something was helpful, it may have been clumsy to articulate, idk.

[unicorn2014]

Hi Sunflower, what you said made a lot of sense to me and I think I will find more answers in the book Understanding the Borderline Mother as well as my own recovery work.

I think I JADE in relation to a person wBPD because of the FOG. I think about this all the time, that I feel obligated to do something.

I hope that I have matured  as a result of having a relationship with a pwBPD and that I won't be talking about my past history anymore.

I am fortunate and that I have three programs of recovery I participate in which gives me ample opportunity to deal with my issues without bringing them up with an individual outside of those circles. There is also this website.

I think before I had a relationship with a pwBPD it never occurred to me not to disclose because it would come back to me.

I also belong to a religion that describes how you are to conduct yourself with members of the opposite sex.

------

I don't think its good to bond with a person over sharing stories of your past, so I might think about that as a boundary for myself.

[eeks]

Hi unicorn2014,

The conversation seems to have moved on to other topics besides whether there is such a thing as a "soulmate", but I can tell you briefly what I think about that.  There is a book called Keeping the Love You Find by Harville Hendrix, this is his book for single people, there is also a book for couples that I believe is based on the same concepts.  Basically, we are attracted to and develop strong feelings to certain individuals (out of the many, many people we know, and meet over the years?) based on our childhood.  Through attachment and socialization, none of us leaves childhood without having our natural life force diminished or constricted in some way, and we seek to get that wholeness and what he calls "relaxed joyfulness" back.  And one of the ways we seek to get that back is by falling in love with someone who has both the positive and negative traits of our parents.  This explains the "honeymoon phase" followed by conflict, during which many couples conclude they are with the wrong person, and/or feel they just can't make it work, and get divorced.  However, if people know what is happening and why, they stand a chance of actually coming out of and through that conflict with a stronger relationship.

Just so no one goes thinking "ohhh that must mean my BPD ex was my perfect match... ." they do say that each person in the relationship being willing to change, including seeking help for mental health, addiction or abuse issues, is necessary to have this type of personally transformative relationship.  

So no, I don't think there's such a thing as a "soulmate", but there's always something to be learned from who we are attracted to, and from our conflicts, if we are self-aware and willing.  I find this to be the case even with my friendships!

As far as "when to disclose what about yourself in a relationship", I think you've already received a lot of good responses, and I can add that I have heard that one of the main factors in relationship compatibility is "degree of self-disclosure".  In other words, if someone tends to be very private, they will not do well with someone who wants to share all and likes for their partner to do the same.  

I don't think this is about whether you are "mysterious" or not.  If you are sharing a lot up front for reasons that come from fear and past hurt, that's something to look at.  If and when you share (and your partner shares), the sharing should be to bring you closer, to increase the amount of intimacy and trust between you.  For instance... .has anyone ever told you about a painful experience they had, that was hard for them to talk about, and you felt closer to them afterwards?  Or you told someone something difficult that you genuinely felt (from your own sense of right and wrong) that they should know about you, and you felt relieved?  Like that.

[unicorn2014]

Eels, would you recommend that book? I think I'm going to look it up at the library.

I appreciate what you said about people being willing to get help. My ex husband would not and ultimately I had to end the marriage. My "fiancé" has gotten therapy and is taking medication so while things aren't perfect he is making an effort.

Thank you very much for your response. It is interesting that they are so many points of view on soulmates. I do agree that my partner and I are matched but I also think that no amount of matching can compensate for other things.

[thisworld]

Unicorn hi,

Thank you for this very helpful post as I have been thinking about both the soulmate and "too much" disclosure - I'm very troubled because of the latter at the moment because I think may ex partner may now use this against me. And just yesterday, I was thinking "Ha, I'll never open my mouth again in any relationship!" But then, how to avoid looking like this really dark, strange character or how to build intimacy? These have been busying my mind.

For the soulmate, I'm not religious and I don't believe that a soul exists in a religious sense. Neither do I believe that the philosophical content of the word applies to intimate relationships. However, at a psychological level - and popular culture level- I certainly experienced joys of finding my soulmate or "the one". Ironically, many times. Whatever the term used for it, I had a quest for finding someone who would understand me at a deeper level than other people. At this point in my life, however, I think this is also a consequence of social or cultural conditioning and if I had to, I would describe my "soulmate"s as my friends who have gone through similar journeys in their lives and who share the same ethics or values with myself.

One thing strikes me in my personal relationship history though. My "soulmates" (soul-bandages?) were my most dysfunctional relationships. Today, I see them as my wound-mates with whom I was involved in some dances due to my FOO issues. If I lessen the effect of these FOO issues, maybe one day I'll come across other "soulmates" that I define through other values.

It also strikes me that being a "soulmate" was brought up more in these relationships. Like we almost rejoiced. But I sometimes think whether this was a subconscious recognition that we would have many difficulties on a real, practical level and were trying to cover that. I'm thinking this because I attached myself to these people through "shared pain." Usually, I was at a better place in terms of recovery and I thought maybe I could help them. It could hurt, but we were "soulmates" in an eternal contract. So, in practice, maybe this was a concept I employed to justify to myself why I chose these difficult relationships. I'm also aware that abusers and controllers use these and other terms a lot to control their victim. Well-read narcissists philosophize a lot on "unconditional love"  

Per disclosure, whatever my fears are right now, I cannot imagine a relationship where I cannot trust the other person and not disclose anything. As I said, neither do I want to appear like I'm a person with a terrible terrible past that I cannot talk about. I want to own what happened to me and what I did, put it in a framework where I disclose my discoveries about myself and how I grew as a result of these. I think I can do this because I don't hesitate to talk to my dates about my FOO issues at a reasonable moment and even humorously and in my future disclosures, I want to keep the focus on myself.

With this last partner, I just joined his discourse of "terrible things that happened to me" because I wanted to show him that I experienced similar things and I understood. His disclosures always focused on "events" rather than his critical evaluation of those or his feelings (other than hurt) and I think I got carried away and mimicked him. Now, I regret this. I think it would have been better to ask questions to him, to offer details on feelings rather than events, etc. If I can do this, I have no problem with disclosure. But I have to be careful not to get carried away.

Ultimately, I would like to be able to tell a new partner about the scandalous aspects of my former relationships but only after trust is built on realistic things.

About vulnerabilities that I share during relationships which return to me like a boomerang, I now know that with a controller this can be about anything that comes out of my mouth, anything they perceive as my vulnerability. To me, the solution is to leave any and every relationship the moment this happens, really. I really trust my gut about this because of my personal history.

Thank you again, for giving me the opportunity to think about these.

Best,

[unicorn2014]

Thank you this world for your answer. What got me thinking was looking at the healthy relationships and dating board and thinking about how my partner considers me his soulmate as well as thinking about an argument he and I got in when I told him I shouldn't have told him about my previous partners. My current partner has the ability to remember and repeat the most disturbing things about my past relationships.

----

In terms of soulmates , I'm divorced and I have to see my ex every time I go to church . I once thought he was my soulmate .