Feedback?

[HurtinNW]

Hello all

I am new to this, and so please bear with me. I am reading the lessons. I am also seeing my own therapist. Last night I saw my boyfriend. Something happened that is relatively small, but a good example of how confusing our dynamic is to me.

He had invited me over for dinner at his place. We were both in good moods. I got there, he got me a glass of wine, we hugged, kissed, and chatted while he cooked. Then I noticed that he had removed any reminders of me from his home during our last break up, which he initiated. No pictures of me, no notes from me left on the fridge... .nothing. In fact the only photograph of a lover he had on the wall was a woman he had a long-term booty call relationship with, a woman who has been a source of contention between us. I got quiet, trying to figure out how to address this. Finally I calmly stated my feelings. I said I felt hurt. He started to get defensive, and said I was being "sullen." He did do a good job of reigning in his reaction, which would normally be to rage. His explained he took everything down when we broke up (he never says he broke up, it is always we broke up) because he was sad. I validated that made a lot of sense. We recovered and ended up not getting in a fight, though things felt fragile. Later after I was home he sent me a loving message at bedtime. I called him and said how much I love him, and praised him.

So in one way that felt like big progress. I was able to state my feelings, I validated his feelings. He didn't end up in an abusive rage, which would have happened in the past. In the past an incident like this would have led to him being breaking up with me yet again. But his narrative is still going to be that I am "sullen" and unreasonable and his behavior is always justified. Of course when he is feeling sad or hurt I don't accuse him of being sullen. It is like everything in his mind is colored by this perception he is a victim.

I am realizing that to do this I am going to have to work HARD on myself. I have to let this go now, and not carry my own resentment. Boy this tough! Ugh! Maybe he isn't the only one who wants to feel like a victim

But tell me, am I on the right track?

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[Lou12]

Hi HurtinNW

Why did your BPD explain why he had a picture of his ex up?

Call me a pessimist but the way I see it is... .

A) He purposely hurt you by putting up a picture of his ex and removed traces of you! (Doesn't take a brain scientist to know that it's going to hurt you!)

B) called you a name for reacting to it

C) had you believe he's an improved guy because he didn't rage

D) you forgave him and carried the night on as normal and you even told him you loved him!

Now for me this would be very clear boundary crossing that I would not be happy with. I find there a two ways to deal with this type of issue if I was faced with it as I have been. 1 is to absolutely ignore this type of behaviour, pretend you don't even notice at all (usually they cut out behaviours that don't get any reaction what so ever) or option 2 is to set it as an absolute no as a boundary if it really does up set you.

Hate to be brutal here but what I see was him managing down your boundaries over something that upset you.

What message do you think you are sending him when you review this event?

I have been practicing radical acceptance and validation alotttt, but I am very careful that when I validate and practice RA that I am not doing myself an injustice either.

Do you feel comfortable that he has a picture up of his ex and not you? If you've now got over that hurt because he didn't end up in an 'abusive rage' and sent you a sweet message at the end of the night then fine but don't sell your own emotions out on important things that hurt you just so you don't upset him. You'll end up a wreck x

[HurtinNW]

Thanks for the feedback, Lou!

This stuff is crazy making, isn't it?

Yes, he had removed traces of me. However, the photo of the booty call had been up there before, as part of a collage of old friends. I had previously ignored it. So he didn't put it up to hurt me. However, he never removed it, either. And it doesn't take a brain scientist to know removing traces of me and not putting them back up would hurt me. Honestly, it is hard for me to tell when he does this stuff deliberately or when he is operating at age three emotionally and is so self-centered he doesn't even think about my feelings. I do think one of my mistakes is I spend WAY too much time trying to figure him out and not setting my own boundaries.

You are right he does "manage down" my boundaries. This is a very difficult area for me because I have trouble even knowing and establishing my own boundaries. I was severely abused as a child, my mother was alcoholic and uBPD and malicious and manipulative as all get out. This kind of stuff is very familiar and disorienting to me.

Thank you for your honest feedback. It is very appreciated.

[Lou12]

It certainly is crazy making!

I, like you, struggle with the knowing if the behaviour is purposely done or they just don't think. I constantly ask myself 'is he evil or just stupid?' This answer changes on a daily basis and after almost 2 years I still can't consistently answer it. Worst still is that when I pull him on certain behaviours he looks at me like I have 10 heads and says 'you think to much' or 'you over analyse everything'. Well I'm glad I do because it's saved me a hell of a lot of heart ache.

Educate yourself with the condition as much as possible. Whilst practicing validation techniques is a definite, primarily also concentrate on strengthening yourself. As much as I get driven mad by this guy, he has taught me so much about myself it's unreal. He has made me stronger.

I wish you well x

[babyducks]

Hi HurtinNW,

Have you ever heard of object consistency in pw BPD?

Or Splitting?

BPD BEHAVIORS: Splitting

Lou12 is right to suggest you educate yourself about this disorder.   The more you learn the better position you will be in.   

'ducks

[HurtinNW]

Thank you babyducks

I read the thread you posted. I especially was helped by AJ explaining about splitting. I do get object constancy because I have it. My mom had uBPD and was very disturbed. I suffered a lot of abandonment as a young child. I have object constancy issues myself. I am very aware of them. I told my partner about this. Before him I had a successful 15 year relationship, but I knew that I would need extra reassurances as we attached. Of course, with his struggles, I got the opposite.

Splitting is harder for me to understand. I find it very puzzling. It seems he paints me black and makes me out to be all evil the moment I need anything from him. He wants attachment; the moment he gets it nothing is good enough. I have read enough to find this place because it all fits.

Are you suggesting the removal of me from his home was object permanency issues (out of sight, out of mind, couldn't trust you anyhow) or splitting (begone, you evil woman!)?

[waverider]

Object consistency linked with black and white thinking is causing this. The black and white part is causing him to proactively removing reminders. He cant settle into the "broken up" mind set while object consistency remains so he clears the decks so to speak. Otherwise it is too confusing for him.

As far as the old ex picture remaining goes, he can cope with that as he has no emotional investment so it is not creating confusion for him. He wont/doesn't remove it to make you feel better, as in his mind that is his business and that would be you interfering with his world.

I think you did well, Acceptance doesn't mean not having emotional reactions, it means recognizing the feeling for what it is and not dwelling on it, letting it go as part of the inevitability of things.

[babyducks]

I agree with waverider, the black and white part caused the removal of the reminders.   I would say there is a component of 'it disturbs me too much to look at them, everything must go'  not so much 'begone you evil woman' you.    since events get filtered through their feelings first it is primarily about managing their intense emotional reaction.  in other words not so much about you, more about them.

I also agree with waverider that acceptance doesn't mean not having an emotional reaction.   I am going to paraphrase from guidelines for who should post on the improving board to explain.    when I fall into thinking that I am a victim to my partner's behavior, and that she is evil or stupid or crazy I have slipped back into our old dysfunctional way of relating.   I am somewhere on the Karpman Drama Triangle, usually in the victim role,  and I want to move to the center and away from those roles.   It is a given our partners are difficult.    It's also a given that our relationships are fraught with complicated history.    It's very hard to move off the points of the Triangle and into the center.   It sounds like you did a good job of expressing your feelings, validating his  ,  and keeping the drama from escalating.   that is what improving can look like in the short term.

[HurtinNW]

Thank you, babyduck and waverrider!

I do think this is how improvement is going to look for the short-term. Acceptance is a big challenge for me. I do put myself in the victim role and this was one way to move to the center.

I am working on boundaries, and last night he gave me an opportunity to set one. We were talking on the phone and making plans to host a New Years Day brunch. We've done this in the past and had a lot of fun. My boyfriend loves to cook and socialize and we invariably have a great time. In the course of the conversation he brought up he wants to invite a friend of his whom he has painted me black to, in the extreme... .so much she seems to hate me. He told me, "This will be a chance for her to see you are a wonderful person." That's the way his brain works. We ended up arguing about it (not good). I told him I needed a break as he was being disrespectful to me and stopped the conversation. He promptly sent a nasty text message, followed by an apologetic one, and then called. Of course then he hung up on me. The positive is the drama didn't escalate as badly as it would have recently. At one time I would have called him back, been angry and hurt myself, tried to JADE him.

Today I thought about boundaries. I decided this will be my boundary:

Value: I deserve to be surrounded by people who like me.

Boundary: I do not have to host someone who doesn't like me in my home.

Action: I will not let her be invited.

I figure this is a good boundary because it doesn't try to make him not paint me black, but focuses on a firm boundary for me with not dealing with the effects. And then I am going to try to let it go

Thoughts?

[waverider]

Thats a good one, clear and simple and protects you from stress not only at the time but also discussing it before and any potential consequencies afterwrds.

Boundaries must be keep simple. pwBPD understand black and white, they eventually accept them, once it starts getting complicated of fuzzy around the edges they become unstable and obsessed in finding the "real" boundary. Dont allow boundaries to become ambit claims. It becomes transparent, and believe me they will be examined and tested.

Always give yourself a pat on the back when you handle things better than you once would have, rather than beat yourself up about not having the perfect response. You don't have to have the perfect response, you have no obligations to do so, only choices, few of which will be perfect