Questions for finding a good lawyer

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I'm going to see a lawyer, and I don't know where to start. Feels like weirdest thing I've ever had to do.

I'm just doing it to get my affairs(i'm not seperating in order as my SO are miles ahead.
I've not done much in depth reading on this?

What kind of things should i be asking for?

Just the basics will be good for me to start with.

Many Thanks

[Teno]

I'm going to see a lawyer, and I don't know where to start. Feels like weirdest thing I've ever had to do.

I'm just doing it to get my affairs(i'm not seperating in order as my SO are miles ahead.
I've not done much in depth reading on this?

What kind of things should i be asking for?

Just the basics will be good for me to start with.

Many Thanks

[GaGrl]

Welcome! It's good that you are asking for advice on lawyers -- there are a number of people here who have experience with divorce and separation.

A few questions first about your current situation...

Are you legally married?
Are you living with your partner now, or have one of you moved out?
Do you own property together?
Do you have children together? Ages?
If you have children, what concerns do you have regarding custody?

This gives us an idea on where to focus our help and support.

[Teno]

Welcome! It's good that you are asking for advice on lawyers -- there are a number of people here who have experience with divorce and separation.

A few questions first about your current situation...I'm not in the US.

Are you legally married? No De facto
Are you living with your partner now, or have one of you moved out? No, living togethor
Do you own property together? Yes. Then with a lot of general gifting (towards holidays and presents etc. from MIL over time.
Do you have children together? Ages? 8 and 10
If you have children, what concerns do you have regarding custody? I'm concerned with parental alienation as I'll be an outsider with my SO's family. I don't have a support group. Not my country of birth. From what I've experienced things can become very contentious. My MIL and Husband is still together, but he is the scapegoat. By the looks of it I'm following that path. I just want to prepare myself on this front, as much as possible.

This gives us an idea on where to focus our help and support.

[GaGrl]

Thanks, that gives us a place to start.

I am in the U.S., so my knowledge and strategy of family law is based on U.S. law, but others on this board have experience from other countries.

In most cases, you can get a consult from lawyers for 30-60 minutes -- ask your primary questions, but do not commit yet to a retainer for services. This is meant to get as much info and guidance for you as possible.

Start with your biggest concerns --

Parental Alienation?
Custody?
Decisions regarding your children (school, religion, therapy?)
Property?
Child support?

Do NOT assume you will give custody to your parynet. You can decide to pursue 50/50 custody of even primary custody, depending on your situation.

Do you document problems (rages, threats, poor parenting) in your household?

[MeandThee29]

Here were some of mine:

Why did you choose divorce law?

What part of the process do you consider to be your greatest strength (i.e. document prep, negotiation, court, etc.)?

What happens if you are in court or away, and I have an urgent issue?

When do you delegate to associates, paralegals, or legal assistants?

What percentage of your cases settle out-of-court?

Do you do mediation and/or collaboration to stay out of court?

What do you look for in a client?

Given my summary, what do you think will be the hardest aspect of my case?

If your ex has picked an attorney, ask them what they think about going against that attorney.

[PeteWitsend]

I'm going to see a lawyer, and I don't know where to start. Feels like weirdest thing I've ever had to do.

I'm just doing it to get my affairs(i'm not seperating in order as my SO are miles ahead.
I've not done much in depth reading on this?

What kind of things should i be asking for?

Just the basics will be good for me to start with.

Many Thanks

My suggestions:

• First and foremost: get a reference from a friend!  If possible, ask for details... not just "what attorney did you hire?" BUT "What attorney did you hire, and were you satisfied with the results?  Did you have a contested divorce, or was it amicable?"
• If you can't get a personal reference, and you have to start from scratch, look at a couple things: 1) How long have they been practicing?  I'd say look at someone with at least five (5) years; 2) Do they practice in the county you'll be filing in? 3) Do they have any instances of professional misconduct? (Most state bars have this information publicly available on their websites; you could also call to find out).  If they have ANY professional misconduct, move on: there are plenty of lousy attorneys who practice for years and don't get hit with an actual formal sanction or suspension from their state bar.  If you see one, that means they're really sloppy;  and 4) is their office decently decorated, neat and well maintained?  Red flags to look for here: overly opulent - gaudy - offices, really messy ones, or incompetent support staff (the person who hired/trained them is probably not much better!)
• I'd schedule a couple appointments with different attorneys; meet and greet and use your own judgment to decide if they're trustworthy, or competent.  Stick to each appointment as well; it's easy to get dragged into filing with one, but if they push you to put down a retainer and file for divorce on the spot; the "used car salesman approach" to retaining a client is a big
• Don't assume an attorney might be cheaper based on them setting a lower retainer; if they've been doing this for a long time, they may set a lower retainer to lure clients, and make up for it by churning the billable hours during the divorce. A better attorney will be up front with the total costs, providing some contingencies and how that will affect the cost & amount of time to finalize the divorce petition

I learned some of these lessons the hard way 

[PeteWitsend]

I misunderstood your OP, so I'm going to add a bit more:

It will be helpful to get a sense of the "lay of the land"... understanding of course that a lot of outcomes are subjective, and if you did file for divorce, the judge your case gets assigned to can play a big part in that.

I'd ask for overviews of the following issues though: 1) expected legal fees & costs, 2) expected time to resolve, assuming you can keep conflict to a minimum, 3) assuming you have kids, child support and custody issues - both the default rights you have at law, and what you could expect to receive based on the nuances of your situation, and 4) expected property settlement, alimony/support, and how bigger assets and pre-marital assets are handled. 

[ForeverDad]

Do you have "Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder" by William Eddy & Randi Kreger?  He is a lawyer, social worker, mediator, lecturer, author, etc.  That book is crucial for you to read.

It describes the attorney you need:  proactive, experienced, familiar with both negotiations and trial cases, able to suggest an assortment of strategies that are practical and time tested.

The best lawyer for us may or may not be the cheapest estimate.  Our cases are unusually difficult and delays from the other side pop up for any excuse.

So when interviewing lawyers, try to get a feel for which ones have a solid group of strategies, uses experts for evaluations that are reputable, fair and perceptive.  Remember, our ex-spouses generally are experienced manipulators, blamers and blame shifters.  You need qualified professionals on your side who can do solid work.

[livednlearned]

This article may also be helpful: High-conflict Family Law Matters and Personality Disorders

There is also Anatomy of a Divorce that may help you figure out what to expect. It might be different where you live but you can ask how it might differ.

Also, I would ask a lawyer how long to expect to hear back. What is typical, when to be concerned, what to do if it's urgent and you need a response immediately.

And my favorite: Are there things I can do to help cut down costs?

My lawyer told me not to send attachments unless absolutely necessary (she charged more to open them), to not mail copies to me (I had them sent by email), and where possible to have her junior partner do more rote work because that person charged less per hour. I didn't use my lawyer as a therapist (had one of those already) and probably saved untold amounts of money coming here to get support and advice from friends here.

Last, I encourage you to get clear about your goals. For example, if you believe you having primary custody of the kids and majority time is best for them, then that's your goal. It will help with alienation to have majority time with the kids. You may have a goal to get the kids into therapy. You can have multiple goals.

Then ask each lawyer you consult with to give you examples of what strategies and tactics they propose to reach those goals.

I didn't know about this board before I filed for divorce and made a lot of mistakes and learned through trial by fire. Your nerves are likely frayed -- it's hard to think straight when your nervous system is so jacked up by fear, meanwhile you want desperately to protect your kids yet might feel helpless. That can lead to feeling trapped, which leads to depression. So take good care of yourself, no joke. Most high-conflict divorces are marathons, not sprints.

The fact you are here gives you an advantage. The collective wisdom around high-conflict divorces here is like nothing else I've found online, or in person.

My ex was a former trial attorney who ended up representing himself. Fun times being cross-examined in court by your personality disordered ex  

And I ended up with full custody.

Have hope.  

[MeandThee29]

[Don't assume an attorney might be cheaper based on them setting a lower retainer; if they've been doing this for a long time, they may set a lower retainer to lure clients, and make up for it by churning the billable hours during the divorce. A better attorney will be up front with the total costs, providing some contingencies and how that will affect the cost & amount of time to finalize the divorce petition

I learned some of these lessons the hard way 

You just explained something to me that struck me odd when I was interviewing attorneys. One did indeed say $5,000, and then the billable rate was way more than all the others. One said $20,000 with a lower rate than some, but she also said that she primarily represents women and made a snide remark about having to raise it to stay in business because they don't understand what it costs.

The one I went with told me what the retainer would be and said he estimated that's what it would be if we didn't have to go to court. And it was very close to that to get to the final decree. I had to put in a bit more for close-out, but I'm guessing that I'll get some of that back. A paralegal is doing most of it now, and he's of course quite a bit cheaper.

[Teno]

Thanks so much for all the input!

I never thought I would ever go visit a Divorce coach. She is local and seem to have some knowledge on NPD at least and has been around for a good while.

If she's worth her salt it will help me a lot gathering all the necessary documents and help me ask the correct question with the lawyer. I'll be postponing my lawyer visit till we have set up a goal/plan. I'll be taking a lot of questions from this page.

I must admit getting some help and doing something about it feels like a step forward.

Thanks also for all the suggested reading!

[MeandThee29]

I never thought I would ever go visit a Divorce coach. She is local and seem to have some knowledge on NPD at least and has been around for a good while.

My case went with a lawyer to another firm for post-divorce closeout, and they offer coaching as an extra service for every phase of the divorce process. It's not something I need at this point, but I can see the benefit of having someone with a larger focus.

[Teno]

I've been journaling and I can recommend this app https://journey.cloud/

Windows, Android and IOS.

Uploads to the cloud, all content are password protected, photos, file attachments, GPS tracking, mood tracking, time tracking.

Hope this helps someone.

[alleyesonme]

Great posts here from everyone else.

Two pieces of advice that I'd add:

1) Even if you identify early on which attorney you want to hire, I'd still suggest consulting with as many attorneys as possible. Why? Several reasons. First, this will quickly inform you about the procedural and strategic in's and out's of these cases much more than it would to talk to just your own attorney. Second, if you need to change attorneys at some point in the process, you've already got notes (good and bad) on a bunch of prospects. Third, once an attorney has a consultation with you, that attorney cannot represent your spouse. Especially if you are in a smaller town, the more attorneys you can eliminate from your spouse's pool to select from, the better.

2) Ask if they will provide advance notice to you when going on vacation, and what you can do to get urgent answers during their vacation. Early in my divorce process, my attorney left for a vacation completely unannounced the day before something big happened out of the blue, and I had to just stew for 10 days without any answers. Almost fired him just for that.

[MeandThee29]

Ask if they will provide advance notice to you when going on vacation, and what you can do to get urgent answers during their vacation. Early in my divorce process, my attorney left for a vacation completely unannounced the day before something big happened out of the blue, and I had to just stew for 10 days without any answers. Almost fired him just for that.

In my asking around, I heard stories about lawyers who were solo or the only one doing family law in their small firm, and the main negative was what you described. If they were out, you were sunk. My ex picked an attorney like that.

The attorney I went with (the managing partner of a small divorce firm) recommended that we include his associate on my case to do document prep at a lower hourly rate and as a backup. My attorney did a fair number of trials including longer legal malpractice trials, so he said that I could generally reach his associate when he was at court all day. That actually worked really well when I had urgent questions.

Ultimately my original attorney retired, and the associate took my closeout to a new firm. That went smoothly and is another argument for a multi-attorney firm.