Navigating a court order

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Background: DH's BPDex lived with his two kids three states away from us. After being in and out of court for years, DH finally got residential custody. Due to binders of evidence and disturbing witness testimony regarding the BPD mom's behavior and the children's resulting emotional problems, the court ordered the BPD mom to "immediately" get psychological counseling and provide DH with written verification that this counseling is happening.

Heh. Well... It's now been a couple of months and although DH has provided his BPDex with all of the various information he is required to in the same court order, she hasn't said word one about her counseling or if she's even started or intends to start.

We know that if we say nothing, we basically legally make it ok for her to do nothing. As it stands now, she won't see much of the kids throughout the year and she was not granted specific parenting time over the summer. DH simply does not want to send the children back to her place for any partcof the summer unless she's been in counseling for at least six months at that point. And he needs evidence that she is complying now or intends to comply shortly for that to happen.

So... .In an email to the BPDex, how should he ask her to provide proof that she's doing what she's supposed to? I know this email will set her off no matter what and I really don't care just so long as the email wouldn't anger a third party, in case a magistrate ever has to see it.

[Nope]

Background: DH's BPDex lived with his two kids three states away from us. After being in and out of court for years, DH finally got residential custody. Due to binders of evidence and disturbing witness testimony regarding the BPD mom's behavior and the children's resulting emotional problems, the court ordered the BPD mom to "immediately" get psychological counseling and provide DH with written verification that this counseling is happening.

Heh. Well... It's now been a couple of months and although DH has provided his BPDex with all of the various information he is required to in the same court order, she hasn't said word one about her counseling or if she's even started or intends to start.

We know that if we say nothing, we basically legally make it ok for her to do nothing. As it stands now, she won't see much of the kids throughout the year and she was not granted specific parenting time over the summer. DH simply does not want to send the children back to her place for any partcof the summer unless she's been in counseling for at least six months at that point. And he needs evidence that she is complying now or intends to comply shortly for that to happen.

So... .In an email to the BPDex, how should he ask her to provide proof that she's doing what she's supposed to? I know this email will set her off no matter what and I really don't care just so long as the email wouldn't anger a third party, in case a magistrate ever has to see it.

[david]

Send an email with the exact wording in the court order that directs her to immediately get psychological counseling and provide DH with written verification. Nothing more. It's up to her to follow the court order. If she does not comply then that is on her.

If she wants to see the kids in the summer and sends an email saying so just repeat the above email and nothing else.

This way you are following the court order with no deviation.

[Waddams]

Maybe your DH should have his L send said email/letter?  Send via some method that can confirm delivery?  Email with a read receipt returned?  Fedex/UPS/certified mail/etc.?  Or send it to her L?

If you send it on your own, be very polite and respectful, and do not be demanding.  Her compliance is up to her.  Just ask for documentation. 

Dear BPDex:

Please provide documentation that you have entered into psychological counseling per Paragraph X of the (insert date) court order within 7 calendar days of receipt of this letter. 

If I do not receive the court ordered documentation in an appropriate period, I will escalate this issue with the court.

My current mailing address is: [or have it sent to your lawyer]

(insert address)

Sincerely,

Mr. Nope

CC - Mr. Nope's L

Although I do question how to document it exactly to the court without violating patient privacy laws.  Can a court order release of medical records?  Even just a letter from the provider saying "I'm seeing such and such, and have we've had sessions on such and such dates."?  Can just say "yes I'm seeing someone" and leave it at that and not have to provide anything because it would violate patient privacy laws? 

One of the many pitfalls of court orders is sometimes they sound good, but actually demonstrating compliance can be tricky.

[Nope]

David - I really like that. There is absolutely nothing personal about simply quoting the order and saying nothing more.

Waddams - You are absolutely right that this is one of those things that sounds lovely on paper but is completely convoluted when it comes to enforcement. Fortunately, the court order has a ready-made consequence for non-compliance. As the order grants her no specific summer parenting time, she only gets parenting time in the summer "by mutual agreement of the parties ". DH can simply site her none compliance or failure to provide proof that there has been ongoing compliance as a reason for not granting her parenting time in her state during the summer. We just want to be able to say we *asked* for compliance before we do that.

Either that, or maybe she will actually comply and then as it gets closer DH can start to think about what kind of summer time would be appropriate. But that's not where I'd put my money. TBH, even if she wasn't BPD, having to give her ex husband proof of psychotherapy would be an understandably hard pill to swallow.

[ForeverDad]

What is the status of the court's decision?  If ex asked for a reconsideration or filed an objection, is one still pending?  If anything is still pending then you'd likely have to wait for the dust to settle about that.

I agree, as much as you don't want pay the lawyers more, this might be a lawyer question, the lawyer might be the best one (at least to start) to contact her lawyer, if she has one.

My ex always claimed she didn't have email, then whenever I asked if I was blocked (she blocked my email the day we separated in 2005, I saw the browser history and as far as I know I'm still blocked) she would reword that she didn't have access to email.  So what I would do is email her my important notices and then send paper copies by mail, Certificate of Mailing.  That way I could prove I mailed it but she wouldn't know I had that documentation.

[Nope]

FD, you are right. Her objections to the order are still under advisement. So I guess her non-compliance at this point would be seen as acceptable. Which is irritating because DH had to do everything he was ordered to immediately do because we certainly don't object to the finding or tbe order. Given that it takes about three months for this magistrate to get to things (she's very thorough, but that appears to create a huge back log) then I suspect we won't be able to really even ask the question until sometime early next year. *Sigh*

[livednlearned]

FD, you are right. Her objections to the order are still under advisement.

I'm not sure what that means... .Do you mean that she is not agreeing to the ruling, therefore it cannot be officially entered?

I had this same issue (sort of) with N/BPDx. I actually took advantage of N/BPDx's non-compliance. If he wasn't doing what he needed to do, then that gave me a stronger leg to stand on (I was technically in violation of the court order to reinstate visitation).

If it comes time to try and enforce this, do what David suggested and just quote what is in the order. "Please provide documentation that you have complied with the order stating, "Blahbitty blah blah" so we can discuss conditions of visitation.

[Nope]

FD, you are right. Her objections to the order are still under advisement.

I'm not sure what that means... .Do you mean that she is not agreeing to the ruling, therefore it cannot be officially entered?

I had this same issue (sort of) with N/BPDx. I actually took advantage of N/BPDx's non-compliance. If he wasn't doing what he needed to do, then that gave me a stronger leg to stand on (I was technically in violation of the court order to reinstate visitation).

If it comes time to try and enforce this, do what David suggested and just quote what is in the order. "Please provide documentation that you have complied with the order stating, "Blahbitty blah blah" so we can discuss conditions of visitation.

The order is in place, but the other side has filed objections to the order and asked the magistrate to reconsider. Our side filed a rebuttal to these objections because for the most part it's just a paragraphical list of why the other side isn't happy with the ruling.    But nowhere in the objections did they even complain about the court ordered therapy. Under advisement is just an official way of saying it's sitting on the magistrate's desk and she'll rule on it when she has time. I *think* if the magistrate saw grounds in the objection she could modify the order. But again, the other side's only supposed grounds is basically that they. Are unhappy with what they got.

Non-compliance is going to be a big factor next summer. The kid's mom will expect at least the time DH used to have. And the GAL is likely to be on her side about that if we can't prove it'll be detrimental to the kids. But we do have to at least ask her to comply once or twice between now and the summer. We can't seem to only decide that the therapy is important when she goes to ask about summer. We need to be consistent that her non-compliance on this is a big deal.

[david]

It's under advisement. How long does that take ?

There is no mention of having to get therapy in the objections.

If advisement takes a month and you are looking towards the summer than it may be best to wait until advisement is over. Bringing something up that the other side doesn't have on their radar may start a new round of objections. Once everything in the current objections is resolved you can proceed since that will be when the court order is finalized. My ex is very bad at seeing the implications of a ruling until they begin to effect her. Timing this may be important. Once the current issues are resolved going back may require a period of time. In my state it is called a change of circumstances and is a two year waiting period.

[Nope]

Unfortunately there is no clear cut time period for when the magistrate must rule on the objections. I agree that bringing it up now while things are still a little bit on-going probably wouldn't be smart. We stupidly brought up some financial stuff she had agreed to in the original parenting plan right before the last time we went to court and she complained that she didn't have the money and so the magistrate revised the plan a little more right on the spot to make her significantly less responsible for those financial obligations. (Thereby making DH unfairly more responsible. Especially since she had originally agreed to 50/50.) So we need to learn our lesson and let this play out before opening our mouths again.

Once the current issues are resolved she won't have the money to go back. She hasn't given her lawyer a penny and once this is all settled her lawyer isn't going to do anything more for her for free. And I'm pretty sure no other lawyer would look at her history of losing lawyers, the GAL report, and the ruling by the court and be willing to take her on.

[david]

Many on this site have said, "Give someone with BPD enough rope and they will use it".

I have been gathering evidence for over two years now to change custody. I filed in August of 2012. Ex has dragged this out as long as she could. Along the way she gave me more and more evidence. We were supposed to have a hearing about a month ago. The judge realized my atty had a days worth of evidence and so he decided to reschedule the hearing. In the meantime he granted me the additional time I was requesting. My reason was to help the kids with their school work. Both boys grades are better than last year already and will continue until the hearing.

I learned a few years back that my ex doesn't make sense to me because her priorities are very different then mine. She wants to "win" against me at all costs. I want our kids to grow into healthy and responsible adults. Those differences will not go away. I have come to accept that. Even when my petition in August 2012 spelled out the reasons I was seeking more time ex was still not able to change. Just two weeks ago she made an attempt to change. Our hearing is in four weeks and I have over two years of evidence showing until two weeks ago she hasn't done much to help either boy. In those two weeks she has also blamed our S11 in several emails to his teacher and me. The problem is he does all his school work when with me without complaining. The last two years he has done over 90% of all his school work when with me even though ex has majority of time during the school year.