Update on my sd

[pessim-optimist]

Ok, I have some good news I wanted to share: first face to face contact after a year and a half! 

Some of you know about our situation with my sd32. She was always very close with her dad, but completely "split" him last year, blaming him for everything bad in her life etc, and went n/c with us for almost a year with only few unpleasant e-mails in the meantime. She started to communicate with her dad via phone, about 4 months ago, and their relationship has pretty much "normalized" with a slight bump in the road here and there. I had no opportunity for contact with her up until now.

Last week she decided on a whim that she and her family would like to come visit for the weekend, staying in a hotel. We were excited, hadn't seen them for a year and a half, and hadn't seen the grandkids. I was worried though, how our communication would go. I suddenly felt angry and resentful again, and wondered if I was going to be able to muster a pleasant demeanor. I sure thought I was going to be discovered. Then I read one of the posts here (can't remember which one) where lbj was talking about being compassionate and supportive, rather than judgmental. That certainly hit home for me. I felt VERY judgmental, and did not seem to be able/or want to let go of the emotion... . But I determined to try my best, and repeated to myself: compassionate and supportive, NOT judgmental.

Well, the day came, they drove up, and I was excited to see the kids, and when I saw her - hobbling out of the car (she injured her knee recently), I offered to help her out, and everything went smoothly from then. In the middle of the day, I was even thinking - wow, she seems so normal, does she even have BPD? Well, it didn't take long, and there were some mild signs of dysregulation here and there, but with the new skills, I think we made more of a connection, and everything went smoothly!

As usual, there was some chaos, and one of their kids ended up being sick, so we invited them to stay with us the second night - that was a big risk, but it also went smoothly... .

I am not fooled, I know that this is a part of the new honeymoon phase, and it also helped that it was a short visit... .

NOW about the NEW SKILLS:

However - I could tell, that I was interacting a bit differently with her - being able to see some of her behaviors for what they were, and understanding them, and knowing what to do was really helpful. It allowed me to be more compassionate and effective. I am usually very patient, but in the past had to bottle up annoyance, anger and resentment. This time, I understood what was going on. So it did not trigger the old feelings, and it freed me up to use my skills instead. 

Also, I could see some of her pain, and could respond to it. In the past, I just took it for yet another annoying habit of her zoning out. That's what she looks like, when she is feeling uncomfortable and is trying to deal with her feelings and trying to figure out what to do... .

All in all, it was a good visit, and we were all happy. That means a lot! 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[TopsyTurvy]

Oh, Pessim, I am so happy for you!  You did a wonderful job using your new skills. It is great that you were able to feel compassion and open the door to a closer relationship. I hope it is the first step to reuniting with her and the grandchildren.

[mggt]

Dear Topsy,  So happy for you and family yay   

[mggt]

Dear Pessi,  I meant to write pessi vs topsy early in morning here so happy for you   

[Reality]

Ok, I have some good news I wanted to share: first face to face contact after a year and a half!

NOW about the NEW SKILLS:

However - I could tell, that I was interacting a bit differently with her - being able to see some of her behaviors for what they were, and understanding them, and knowing what to do was really helpful. It allowed me to be more compassionate and effective. I am usually very patient, but in the past had to bottle up annoyance, anger and resentment. This time, I understood what was going on. So it did not trigger the old feelings, and it freed me up to use my skills instead. 

Also, I could see some of her pain, and could respond to it. In the past, I just took it for yet another annoying habit of her zoning out. That's what she looks like, when she is feeling uncomfortable and is trying to deal with her feelings and trying to figure out what to do... .

All in all, it was a good visit, and we were all happy. That means a lot! 

pessim-optimist

Wow!  You express the change so clearly.  Going from bottling up the anger and resentment to non-judgment because you understand the emotional dysregulation and how it looks with cognition break-down, zoning out, as you put it.  So insightful.

Thank you for sharing.

Reality

And congratulations!

[jellibeans]

So happy for you pessim... . what a good visit. I think sometimes a bit of space allows everyone involve to heal and try again. Seems like you both have done that and I am so happy to hear good news for a change.

Sometimes when I am dealing with my dd I feel like I am kind of detached a bit... . like looking at the situation from a far... . that helps me from getting too emotional and keeps me in the moment. Congrats on your new skills!

[vivekananda]

oh pessio, I feel so proud to know you! I have tears welling up for you, silly I know, but I know how far it is to turn that circle around. With that wonderful success, you have skills to build on and further develop.

That capacity to be compassionate and not judgemental is what I would call 'detachment', letting go of ego. You are able to, when in the moment, recognise your own emotional needs if necessary and not expect them to be met by others. You are able to be authentically there for the other person, then you can truly be validating.

I bet your dh is proud of you too. And your sd will feel reassured that she did the right thing by visiting you all.

Well done!   

Vivek    

[qcarolr]

pessio - awesome    hope the practice of this new way of being in r/s with your d continues to grow.

qcr  

[pessim-optimist]

Thank you everyone for your responses; I feel very good and relieved, too.

This was truly my first opportunity to practice those skills in real life face to face with THE pwBPD that I joined this forum for.

Of course, I had a lot of theoretical practice here on the forum, so I want to thank you all for being here and continuing to be here. I also read books and watched videos, and spent a lot of time discussing and coaching my dh (my dear, non husband, who is the father of this girl), as he read a bit and then just 'played it by ear'.

The main difference is - face to face things are happening in real time and also, you don't have the luxury of going away, making comments and facial expressions that you might feel like making, and re-thinking it and coming back with a wise response.

So, my husband was proud of me (and I of him). But I have to admit that some of the true challenges that we were expecting, did not materialize. So, my job was much, much easier than some of yours that you describe here routinely.

He asked me before they came: 'what are you going to say if she says, "God has shown me that I really need to forgive you"?

(Now this last year she was attacking us and if anyone needed to forgive, it was us forgiving her, so you can imagine the emotional reaction such comment would stir in me... .   I told my dh, that I would just say: "Well, thank you!" and move on. But, truth be known, I wasn't sure my body language would have gone with it... . So, I am grateful I did not have to find out for myself 

And, like I said, I know there WILL be some hard situations ahead, but for now, I am enjoying the peace... .

 PessiO

[griz]

Hi Pessi:  Been off the board a few days so I didn't see about your visit until now. WOW, how wonderful.  You were able to see things differently and make a conscious effor to change how you reacted and interacted with her.  And helping you dh made such a difference.  You changed the whole family dynamic.

I am so happy for you and that you had a good visit.  Yes, enjoy the peace.  Everyone has hard situations ahead but we learn how to deal with them better.  You are a great example for all of us.

Griz   

[Being Mindful]

Good for you Pessi! This is the start of change for you. Keep building upon this. I know you can do it. I'm so proud of you.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[pessim-optimist]

Yikes, I see some major dysregulation brewing   

Today we got a phone call that my sd went to a doctor, and was told she has a torn tendon in her knee, and "needs a surgery, or she will never walk again". Well, not sure about never walking again, that all depends on which tendon it is, but needless to say, the 'black and white' 'all or nothing' thinking has definitely kicked in.

She and her husband just decided to drop her from their insurance at her husband's work two months ago, because it was too expensive... . Now they will not have the money for the surgery. We've got several phone calls already and probably more to come... .

If I was in the same situation, I would definitely be worried. Add BPD, and there are chaotic fireworks. She already went through several scenarios in two hours, from suing the primary care doctor, who is her husband's friend, to putting their house up for rent and moving to a different state that would cover the surgery under low income (they have moved 16 times in the 13 years of their marriage). In the middle of the conversation, she had to hang up, because there was a hornet in her car (could have been a fly)... .

I think I am just venting. My husband is worried about her health, and I am trying to separate the facts from fiction... . I think that the torn tendon is probably a reality - a hard one to deal with.

Of course, I am thinking - 'ok, let's just all calm down, take a step back, and think about the options'   

[vivekananda]

good luck with the storm abrewing. Good to see you have your cool glasses on!

I could use some of your equanimity just now... . send some over if you can spare.

thinking of you Cheers,

Vivek    

[pessim-optimist]

Thank you, Vivek ,   

Sending you some right over! How are you doing?

[vivekananda]

gotta post happening on being judgemental... . would love your input   

accepting your positive energy and feeling reinforced as I write 

Vivek      

[pessim-optimist]

So, never mind, all is well:

Sd injured herself while she was still covered by the insurance, so they have to take her back, her husband applied for that today. All of her medical expenses will be covered, and she can relax - sort of. Back to obsessing about how to get back into r/s with her sister who is burnt out at the moment. 

[pessim-optimist]

I thought about this and wondered why I got so annoyed with sd for her typical BPD behaviors.

I think the main reason is that it involved a potential for a bad physical/medical situation and my husband (her father) was REALLY worried. It is a trigger for him. He is usually able to detach and look at her daily dramas with objectivity, but medical issues are different - he goes into his 'mother bear' mode (and I think she intuitively knows it an uses it).

I was not able to relate to him that I thought the situation may not be as critical/unsolvable as sd was representing... .

This is a frustrating part, I cannot transfer my skills and knowledge to him, and he does not have the motivation/patience to learn more (thinks he knows enough of the basics) and wants me to coach him on the rest.

But there's only so much I can do, and I cannot really be effective when he is worried, and thinks that I lack the empathy when I do not believe her every word (he understands that on other occasions, but not in these)... .

Wondering, if/what I can do to change that dynamic   

Any advice or ideas?

[BioAdoptMom3]

That is the most awesome news!  So      for you!

[vivekananda]

pessio, I have found that with my dh one thing that works to change the dynamic is just repetition.

So, when dh was getting sucked in to dd's money hassles, one thing then another would happen, I would just analyse each one and say, can't you see she is 'manipulating' you? She learnt what works and uses it. It's her survival mechanism... . by explaining what she wants and what she is doing to get it, it eventually sinks in.

I tend to focus on one aspect that he needs to learn and then find a lot of different ways to 'subtly' slip it into discussion. Eg, I would find another example of someone we know (perhaps a friend, perhaps on the telly) who would be doing something to get what they needed in terms of an 'emotional' response and explain it... .

Stuff like that.

The one thing I can't get around is his relying on me to 'teach' him. I tire of him always seeming to not quite get it, of not being able to talk about it with him without him being defensive.

ah well, them's the breaks,

Vivek    

[griz]

PessiO- I am so glad that this worked out with the insurance for your D.  I wish I had some advice for your with your dh.  My dh thinks he tries but he often doesn't have a clue.  I find he will say the wrong thing continually and I have to tell him why it was wrong and how he could have said it better or different.  Sometimes I actually think he doesn't get it on purpose which leaves me to deal with everything... . ALL THE TIME.

Griz

[pessim-optimist]

Hm, Vivek  and griz,

Interesting responses. I see a lot of similarities.

Maybe the analysis and repetition at calm times might eventually work. (But would that not make him feel like a dummy, who is being constantly lectured... .  )

I do not think that they do it on purpose, griz (even though I think they sometimes avoid on purpose, not wanting to deal with it, or not knowing how to).

It just might be that males are wired differently. My husband got quickly better with boundaries, learned the SET technique and uses it at times.

The thing that stands in his way (compared to me - not to you) is that he is the dad, I am not blood-related, so I am much better able to detach emotionally.

Also, I do not know if he as a male has the drive/motivation to get into the intricate nuances of communication with a pwBPD... . I mean we as females are wired relationally. And on average we are more driven to verbal communication, and are more emotional so, I guess we tend to be interested in those in us and others... .

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

You are right pessio - all you said rings true.

Yes my dh feels lectured at times. Yes, he is defensive with me. But in some ways the poor dear is 'over a barrel'. He is slowly coming to realise that there is BPD in his family too, it's not just mine.

I talk about personality traits that I am struggling with. In my family the distinctive family traits down and across the generations are: self entitlement, self righteousness and superiority. So, I openly acknowledge this and seek his help with me in working it through.

Guess what the personality traits down and across his family are? While I wouldn't take an oath on self entitlement... . self righteousness is up there with a good dose of superiority.

Now dh's dad is terminally ill (lung cancer, he's 88). Dh has had to move his from his home, settle him into an aged care residence, take him to hospital and treatment etc. This is a hard time for his dad, of course... . and his dad's negative qualities are surfacing hard and fast. Normally dh would be protected from them. Dh and his siblings are looking on shuddering and saying "I hope I don't get like that when I am old", me, ever sensitive   say, 'what do you mean when you're old, you are already!'   They know that while I am not really being mean and cruel and I am joking, I am also being honest. So dh has had a lot of opportunities to reflect on himself.

Because dh's demeanour throughout the raising of dd and the lack of consistency between us and his constant denial etc. he now cannot avoid facing the facts - this is the situation: dd32 has BPD (he tried to pretend that wasn't so for about 8 mths of last year. Now he accepts it). The consequences of this has been devastating to me, to him to our families and friends. I/we have not hidden it but have responded appropriately to those who ask and those who care. So, dh can no longer avoid it. So, he has to 'man up' and accept that what I have been and am saying is 'right'.

We attend a carer's group (mainly parents) once a month. We saw a T together for a bout 8 mths and can return if we think we should. We are currently attending a 'Narrative Therapy' course for carers (mainly parents). Dh can't avoid learning about what we should be doing.

So, when I say I constantly repeat stuff, it is within a context that gives me permission to do so. Dh is very defensive, so I need to be careful but the effect on me of this is so obvious, that he also knows he has to take it serious.

It's been a bummer of a ride the last 18mths, but I feel though that the changes that I have embarked upon in my journey since here, have made a profound difference to me and the way I interact with people now. This is an obvious reminder to dh - a model of how to behave. At least I think so 

[qcarolr]

Vivek  - can you describe what 'narrative therapy' means, and how it helps you and dh?

qcr

[vivekananda]

ok   happy to... . new post started... .