Can a person w/Quiet BPD traits evolve into the classic raging pw/BPD?

[Matrix96]

I am new to this forum and only recently learned about BPD, Cluster B and Personality Disorders in general.  This was quite an eye-opener as I believed one thing for many, many years (hence my "Matrix" handle), only to accidentally stumble across this forum to discover that a PD could possibly explain behavior that made absolutely no sense to me way back when.

Can a person who exhibited Quiet BPD traits at 18-20 years old later evolve into the classic "outwardly raging" pwBPD that make up the majority of the stories on this website?  Or, do they remain with the Quiet BPD pathology forever, or at least until they successfully complete a significant amount of treatment?

[Cat Familiar]

Very interesting question. People with BPD (pwBPD) can be quite variable in their behavior, and much has to do with how afflicted they are. Some have only a few traits and can be quite functional in their careers, while others are so impacted that they are unable to hold down a job. Since BPD is a disorder related to intimacy, the people most affected by this mental illness are the families and loved ones of the pwBPD.

I suspect my mother had BPD and I’ve married two husbands with BPD, so I’ve observed quite a varied spectrum of behavior. My current husband would certainly qualify as a *quiet BPD* as he is very functional and his “acting out” is usually limited to grumpy moods. However, in the past, prior to knowing about BPD, I saw him rage during a couple of episodes. With what I know now, about not invalidating, and being able to communicate with him in ways that does not exacerbate his feelings of being ill at ease, I have not seen the raging in several years.

Given the right, or should I say *wrong* set of external circumstances, I think it’s possible for any pwBPD to get out of control into a rage.

BPD is only one component of what makes up a personality. There are familiar patterns that people with BPD have: feelings of shame and low self-worth, a lack of a strong sense of identity, a tendency to feel like a victim and blame others and external circumstances, a proclivity to project their own feelings upon others, etc.

That said, some have a strong ethical center, while others veer into narcissism and sociopathy with a willingness to take advantage of others. Some pwBPD seem to have a far greater ability for self control, hence they are likely the ones identified as *quiet BPD*, while others have very poor executive function.

The more you read these boards, the more you realize that one size does not fit all pwBPDs. Yes, there are repetitive patterns and yes, the posters here are more likely to be dealing with the more difficult types of pwBPD. I suspect that there are lots of undiagnosed pwBPDs walking around who are merely seen as *troublesome people* by their families, and only manifest a few traits, not enough to severely impact their work or their relationships.

[EZEarache]

Can a person who exhibited Quiet BPD traits at 18-20 years old later evolve into the classic "outwardly raging" pwBPD that make up the majority of the stories on this website?  Or, do they remain with the Quiet BPD pathology forever, or at least until they successfully complete a significant amount of treatment?

That's a very thought provoking question.

So I think my co-parent with BPD did sort of evolve from quiet BPD to Aggressive. This is at least for the duration that I knew her. She was much older than 18-20 when we first met. She was 34. Her traits really began to digress to full irrational rage after we had a child. She was emotionally great while on maternity leave. However, once she returned to work and was juggling motherhood and a career, the rages really started to escalate.  I caused further stress by getting depressed, due to the changes of fatherhood and the social isolation of the pandemic.

From my perspective, she's never fully recovered from this. As a result, she has become a very outwardly angry and high conflict person.

Now, perhaps, I did not know her long enough to notice the traits were there before. We were together about three years before I decided to leave for everyone's safety. Another possibility is she was just on her best behavior until she got what she wanted, which was a baby. However, there were plenty of red flag moments, that I ignored prior to our breakup and her completely going into Aggressive.

Now mind you she isn't just aggressive with me. She showed Aggressive traits towards the nursing staff at the hospital yesterday, and told me she created road rage twice, recently. The first two years of our relationship, I really don't recall behavior like this. However she did start feud with her neighbors next door while she was pregnant. So it sort of started to creep in, as I think about this.  Although the neighbor's behavior was troublesome for her, she managed to keep "Quiet" about it with them, until she finally snapped.

I do think that the BPD traits can morph over time to match the level of stress and anxiety that is currently on hand.

[Riv3rW0lf]

It's interesting ... I was actually thinking about Quiet BPD recently.

I think my own mother started out regular BPD, when I was very young, with her alcool consumption triggering a more aggressive version of herself. Then she stopped drinking, and most of my memories of that time, she was very, very quiet. Highly critical, still some rages here and there, but mostly quiet, it was very hard to know what she was thinking, it came off as just neglect and not caring at all about us. And now, she is over 60yo and it seems she is back to talking a lot, being attention seeking and she goes into rages easily too, but she does appear to "calm down faster" too.

All this to say: depending on the time period, what she was doing, our age as her children (which also clearly impacts how I perceived her), it seems like she went from full BPD to quiet BPD and now is back to full BPD. But still, she feels a bit less intense and aggressive than how she was in her twenties and early thirties... The drinking made her BPD much more worst back then. 

Finally, I don't know if this can help, but typically, BPD is believed to lessen with age, it rarely worsens.

[Matrix96]

That's a very thought provoking question.

So I think my co-parent with BPD did sort of evolve from quiet BPD to Aggressive. This is at least for the duration that I knew her. She was much older than 18-20 when we first met. She was 34. Her traits really began to digress to full irrational rage after we had a child. She was emotionally great while on maternity leave. However, once she returned to work and was juggling motherhood and a career, the rages really started to escalate.  I caused further stress by getting depressed, due to the changes of fatherhood and the social isolation of the pandemic.

From my perspective, she's never fully recovered from this. As a result, she has become a very outwardly angry and high conflict person.



Now, perhaps, I did not know her long enough to notice the traits were there before. We were together about three years before I decided to leave for everyone's safety. Another possibility is she was just on her best behavior until she got what she wanted, which was a baby. However, there were plenty of red flag moments, that I ignored prior to our breakup and her completely going into Aggressive.

Now mind you she isn't just aggressive with me. She showed Aggressive traits towards the nursing staff at the hospital yesterday, and told me she created road rage twice, recently. The first two years of our relationship, I really don't recall behavior like this. However she did start feud with her neighbors next door while she was pregnant. So it sort of started to creep in, as I think about this.  Although the neighbor's behavior was troublesome for her, she managed to keep "Quiet" about it with them, until she finally snapped.

I do think that the BPD traits can morph over time to match the level of stress and anxiety that is currently on hand.

EZ, I find that transformation from Quiet to "selectively raging" to be very interesting.  While I dated this girl in college, the Matrix (or the Universe) put her in my path again at around 30 years old (that's a story for another thread).  At the time, I didn't have the slightest clue about BPD or personality disorders in general.  My friends who are familiar with BPD believe it is the explanation for my story and that I "dodged a bullet."  Now that I know about this BPD thing, I'm looking for confirmation of that bullet.  I could have married her, had kids, etc., etc.  But, her behavior at the time was confusing and, quite frankly, a real turn-off.

Did I dodge a bullet?  How likely is it that Quiet BPD traits evolve into more ingrained defense mechanisms and even more neurotic behaviors?  Riv3rwolf says that "BPD is believed to lessen with age, it rarely worsens."  My friend with a BPD mother tells me the exact opposite.  Her mother started as an alcoholic who then sobered up and became even meaner.  She describes it like meeting a sword master at different times in their life.  When they are just starting out, they are clumsy with the weapon.  Run into them 20 years later and they will be able to cut you with a simple flick of their wrist.

[drumdog4M]

My ex-pwBPD also fit the Quiet type. External rage was extremely uncommon, but possible when stressed and when her perception of the stressor (correctly or not) was me. From what I have read about the various types (which are not recognized in the DSM-V) is that they tend to me more patterns of behavior rather than mutually exclusive categories.

Thus, in certain circumstances one might see different facets of the disorder. Though almost always Quiet, I saw elements of Queen, Waif, Hermit, and very rarely Witch. Alcohol tended to bring out the rage. I don't know if a particular manifestation evolves over time, but I can see many factors that could make this a possibility.

In my experience, the choice between quiet and raging is a bit like choosing a method of execution. Both will destroy one's life.