New to Site Wife had paranoid break. Is this the right place

[Roc]

I am looking for a place to talk and get information as I am very in the dark at the moment. A  little background.
Married (20 years) with 2 children (11f, 8f)
My wife (lets call her River) was abused by her parents for many years (I don't know many details) and she could not remember most of her childhood.

She has been being treated for PTSD  for 2.5 years now.

I had to leave town for a couple of days for a close family members funeral and while I was driving back sent me a text that didn't seem "right". (She had our kids with her) This lead to me having law enforcement locate her. This also lead to her telling a third party that I was having an affair (not true) and that the woman (a friend of hers) and I had hired law enforcement to kill her (the paranoid break). This after much stressful time ended with her being taken into protective custody after she was unable to recognize the Officer as real. When she saw me she got violent and she had to be restrained by the officer and sedated by EMS (in front of our kids)
She currently (we think) on an involuntary hold, out of state, about 5 hours from us.
We were able to get notice of where she was transferred to, but without a release they won't give any information about her (even that she is or isn't there)
It will be a week tomorrow. She has spoken to each of her sisters once for a few minutes (less than 5)
I love my wife and desperately want her back.
Does anyone know of any way to get information?
She is in Utah.

I am seeing a therapist (for about six weeks now)
Trying to arrange therapy for the kids too.
What else should I be doing.
Thanks for any help or support.
Roc

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

Hey, just want to reach out really quick and say Yes, you're absolutely in the right place. People here get it about what you're going through.

While I can't write a ton at the moment, I can say that you are absolutely doing the right thing to get your kids into counseling. They need the most support right now. Getting yourself into counseling too is very smart. Having a neutral 3rd party like a counselor give you feedback and guidance is so important as you're probably experiencing a whirlwind of feelings and emotions.

In terms of getting info about your W -- what is your relationship with her sisters like? If it's decent, maybe you guys can info-share. Maybe she told them something she didn't tell you.

If not, what was the law enforcement agency that took her into custody? Can you call them directly, or look at their web site to see if they have a "call log" that lists your W's incident, with a case #? In our city, all police calls get posted to the "City Police call log" on a 2 hour delay, though not every call ends up with a case #.

Hospitals and jails will generally tell you if someone by a given name is there or not (though they can't tell you for what).

And because you know what state it happened in, that narrows down the list of hospitals and outpatient facilities. This might be a good task to outsource to a supportive family member or friend - the mass calling. Once they get a definitive location that way they can tell you so you can use your time wisely.

Focus on your kids and get as much family/friend support as possible with the logistics of trying to find info.

I know that's kind of general so if you're doing all that already, my apologies. Let us know how you and the kids are doing, whenever works for you.

-kells76

[kells76]

Ok, sorry, I missed the part where you said you do know where she was transferred to. If you feel comfortable saying, is it a hospital, outpatient, inpatient, or jail?

[Roc]

She was transferred to an inpatient behavioral hospital.
Each of her sisters have heard from her once and relayed their conversations but, no real information passed to them. I'm hoping she might call home soon, as we sent her a box of clothes, a couple of books and stuff (all the hospital will allow). She was taken in with just what she was wearing. I am really struggling with getting no information. There is nothing I can tell our kids about what is happening to their mother. It is so frustrating because if she were incapacitated any other way, I would be able to find out everything.
I'm really struggling today as it is the first day of school for the kids and my parents had to go home for a Dr. appointment (about five hours from where I live). So I am home alone trying to work.
It has been really uplifting to me reading the Success Stories on this board. Because I am stuck with the question of whether my wife can ever get past her paranoid delusions and love me again. (She told her sister I was trying to have her killed)
I am naturally a doer and a fixer so not having anything I can do to fix things is torture. Focus is something that just doesn't exist right now.
Thanks Kells, Just being able to talk (or type) helps.       

[kells76]

Hey, good to hear from you again.

She was transferred to an inpatient behavioral hospital.

OK, good that you know that. You guys have the same insurance, right? I.e. she is on the same insurance as you?

Each of her sisters have heard from her once and relayed their conversations but, no real information passed to them.

Are you on OK terms with her sisters? Feeling like it's "all of you working together"? Or is it tense?

I'm hoping she might call home soon, as we sent her a box of clothes, a couple of books and stuff (all the hospital will allow).

That's good that you know where to send stuff. It makes sense that you'll wait and see if that "triggers" a reply from her. If she has BPD or BPD type traits, she may be struggling with shame/blame, so just keep in the back of your head that while a "normal" person might call back in gratitude, she may feel deep enough shame for what she did that she may be avoidant. You know her best, though.

I am really struggling with getting no information.

Are you able to get in touch with her doctor, or just the front desk? If it's the doctor, does s/he say why s/he can't or won't disclose? Is it possible that your W signed some kind of "nondisclosure" form there where now the dr's are legally barred from telling you stuff? Maybe ask the doctor "Did my W sign something prohibiting you from telling me more" -- that's where my mind is going right now. Worth finding out. Back to the insurance question, you can try seeing if insurance has been contacted about her stay and see if insurance has info of any kind to pass back to you. Sort of a back door.

I'm guessing you've already googled this inpatient behavioral hospital to see the kinds of treatments they do & to get a feel for "normal" stay length? She's in Utah, so does Utah do any kind of "involuntary hold" and if so is there a set time for it? I.e. a 72 hour hold? And are there any legal/disclosure requirements associated with that? Again, just brainstorming to see why you're getting so little info -- maybe there's a weird legal reason in the background.

I'm really struggling today as it is the first day of school for the kids and my parents had to go home for a Dr. appointment (about five hours from where I live). So I am home alone trying to work.

It's so hard to be alone with the fallout. I'm glad you have some work to focus on, though not having your parents' support is really hard. Are they able to come back?

It's also good that your kids are in school -- it will give them some normalcy and structure while Mom isn't around. I think in terms of what to tell the kids, you're probably already doing it -- "Mommy is in the hospital in Utah because her brain got really sick really fast. We know where the hospital is which is why we were able to send her a care package. I don't know how long she will have to stay there yet, but when I know more, I'll tell you. I do know that there is no bad news right now." or something like that.

Being there for your kids, validating their feelings, and not "trying to make it all better" for them will be your #1 job in the near future.

It has been really uplifting to me reading the Success Stories on this board. Because I am stuck with the question of whether my wife can ever get past her paranoid delusions and love me again. (She told her sister I was trying to have her killed)

Like you saw, it's not impossible, though it is challenging. All you can do is work on "your side" and support the kids. Time will tell what she is able to work on "on her side" -- as the hospitalization is really fresh, as hard as it is, be patient. This is going to be playing the long game. Her mind didn't get to that point overnight, so recovery will be a marathon. Again, the more work you can do on your emotional strength and communication on your side, the better the odds.

I am naturally a doer and a fixer so not having anything I can do to fix things is torture.

I get it. This is where the rubber meets the road on seeing that you can't fix her. Recovery is something she will need to want on her own. So, focusing on building your emotional resources, and supporting and validating the kids, may be a good place to direct your energy that wants to "fix". Make sure to check out the tools and tips up top -- especially on "not being invalidating" here:

https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

throwing your "fix it" energy into better communication and being a stable dad will be well worth it.

Thanks Kells, Just being able to talk (or type) helps.   

I get this too. My husband's kids' mom has many BPD type traits and some stuff she has done has been so crazy (yet with nothing I can do about it) that I just have to get it out "on paper" here. It does help.

Keep us in the loop on how things are going, and how you and the kids are doing;

kells76

[Roc]

Yes she is on the same insurance as me so eventually I should start seeing the bills for everything.

I am on very good terms with her sisters and they let me know when she called them (once each). It feels like her older sister is holding back. I get the feeling she is afraid she will slip with some of the details of their childhood.

That she is not going to reach out because she feels guilty or ashamed is one of my biggest fears. Because that doesn't give me a chance to let her know that it is not her fault.

In our state and Utah. Psychiatric information release requires affirmative action. By default medical personnel can't tell you anything (She would have to sign a release for them to talk to me). I was able to talk to the front desk on "Hypothetical terms" and they have no real "standard" stay it can range from days to months. They did reassure me that she will only be released with a safe approved plan to move forward.

It was just a hard day being home entirely alone. I has been rare for me to be alone over the last 11 years


My parents can be here intermittently as needed. Mostly during the week most likely. My wife raved at the kids and ordered them to do things while she was being taken into custody.  She had also spend much of the day accusing me of some horrible things to them. We have had a long serious talk about why their mother was saying these things.

It is so hard, it has been more than a week since she has talked with anyone. Just take care of our kids and wait is all I can do for her.

[Roc]

We are at three weeks since she was committed and still no communication. The hospital is still telling me that they "can neither confirm nor deny that she is there".
I have 2 letters from insurance approving her continued treatment there. Going crazy not knowing what is happening with her. Anyone have any luck getting any info out of a Behavioral Hospital?

[kells76]

That sounds beyond frustrating. I mean, I get HIPAA, but come on, you guys are married.

Couple of routes you might try, if you haven't already.

You have a counselor, right? Run that question by him/her -- how to get the most info possible for a spouse in BH. Counselors & therapists have to be educated on HIPAA & health privacy law, I believe, so your counselor may be a good resource.

Have you heard of the "Family Connections" course provided by the organization NEA-BPD? It is a free ~10-12 week online group course giving education and support to people with a family member/loved one with BPD. While I'm guessing much of the course is kind of boilerplate, I would hope that there would be some "real time" Q&A with a group leader or other group members. Chances are high that someone else in the group has also dealt with having a loved one in BH treatment.

Even if you don't join the group, just google "Family Connections BPD" & check out the links. It's possible there are some that are pertinent to your situation.

Sorry if you've already thought of those ideas, just brainstorming.

 I was actually wondering this week how you guys were doing, so it's good to hear back from you.

How are the kids holding up?

Are your parents able to help out again?

Are you able to take a little time every day and not think about this situation and give your mind a break, even for 5 minutes?

I will say -- two good things are that you are getting the bills, so you know she is there, and you haven't heard anything different from her sisters. It just sounds so difficult not knowing more for almost a month.

Will check back in tomorrow morning for any new posts.

Hope you and the kids get some sleep tonight,

kells76

[Suassíos]

Hi Roc,

I am so sorry to hear that you and your family are going through such an extremely difficult time.

My husband is diagnosed BPD and has past traumas in his childhood, which he is very vague to me about but he attends a trauma specialist counsellor and has a great relationship with her, and the therapy is going well. He had one voluntary admission two years ago when my kids were similar ages to yours. He went in for 3-4 days to get his diagnosis confirmed so he could access outpatient programmes and stayed for 4 weeks. He agreed to the team communicating with me and I had a good few calls from them.

I also work in mental health services, not in USA, so I do not know the system/law but some general points from my experience are:

- from your description of the incident leading up to the hospitalisation and that you reference it’s a specialist behAvioural centre, it sounds highly likely that your wife is well placed as an inpatient in a centre where there are experts in her illness, this acute episode is likely to have been too challenging for you as a family with young kids to deal with at home, even with outpatient support.

- here there is legislation around involuntary admissions and there are online tutorials open access in the key points of the legislation, how long detentions last for, how frequently they are reviewed, who is involved in terms of independent review, patient advocacy etc. knowing the legislation in Utah might help your understanding of what happened.

- from my experience at work, even if your wife has ticked the box on the form stating she doesn’t want your involvement now, it’s ok for you to leave a message with her team that you want to be involved and are ready to do that when she is ready. From my experience at patient meetings the psychiatrist might say “I know you don’t want your husband involved right now and I respect that is your decision. He has been in touch and is concerned about you and is ready to help in whatever way he can if and when you consent to that”, or something similar.

- the inpatient team are likely to be highly trained professionals who will be doing their best to find ways to help your wife.  it may take several weeks for them to figure out aspects of symptoms that they can match to interventions known to be effective.

- recovery from an acute exacerbation of mental illness is usually very slow. Slowly building recovery is often more likely to be sustainable.

- it’s hard for you to be on your own, don’t worry about everything being perfect. The main thing with your kids is that they feel loved and secure with you. It’s ok for extra TV time or skipping some after school activities or eating more take outs. It depends on how things work in your country, but here i told the class teachers in the school my kids dad was struggling with his mental health and was in hospital for that, you don’t have to give details, and they had some resources for child emotional support to suggest, and were very flexible with late homework etc. I kept it simple especially with 8 year old, dad is having trouble with his feelings and is now with the experts who can help him.

- I have completed family connections and yes it is helpful, particularly talking to others leading the group or within the group who have had similar experiences.

Stay strong. It sounds like you are in an extremely difficult situation and managing it as best as anyone could. I will be thinking of your family and your wife, and keeping my fingers crossed that she is getting good support to help with her recovery.




-

[Roc]

We are still hanging together. I have spoken with a lawyer and she said the only path forward to get past HIPAA would be to have my wife declared incompetent and have the court make me her guardian. That is a big legal step. My lawyer was also able to check the court system and there is nothing with my wife's name listed so we believe that means she has agreed to stay there. (No longer involuntary). I am also getting notices from insurance that her inpatient stay is being approved.
I am leaving messages almost everyday. Finding much accurate information on the laws in rural States (Utah) is challenging. The worst part is not being able to give my kids any detailed information. She has been their primary caregiver their entire lives (Home schooling the older for 2.5 years and the younger for 1 year) So having not contact for almost a month when they had never gone a day without contact is really hard. I hadn't gone more than 2 days out of contact in 22 years. I have an advanced healthcare directive for each of us to fill out after she gets home so either of us would be able to at least get basic information going forward. I certainly never knew the hospital would be able to lock me out like this (Much less be required to).
Thanks for the advice Kells and Suassios.

[SinisterComplex]

I am looking for a place to talk and get information as I am very in the dark at the moment. A  little background.
Married (20 years) with 2 children (11f, 8f)
My wife (lets call her River) was abused by her parents for many years (I don't know many details) and she could not remember most of her childhood.

She has been being treated for PTSD  for 2.5 years now.

I had to leave town for a couple of days for a close family members funeral and while I was driving back sent me a text that didn't seem "right". (She had our kids with her) This lead to me having law enforcement locate her. This also lead to her telling a third party that I was having an affair (not true) and that the woman (a friend of hers) and I had hired law enforcement to kill her (the paranoid break). This after much stressful time ended with her being taken into protective custody after she was unable to recognize the Officer as real. When she saw me she got violent and she had to be restrained by the officer and sedated by EMS (in front of our kids)
She currently (we think) on an involuntary hold, out of state, about 5 hours from us.
We were able to get notice of where she was transferred to, but without a release they won't give any information about her (even that she is or isn't there)
It will be a week tomorrow. She has spoken to each of her sisters once for a few minutes (less than 5)
I love my wife and desperately want her back.
Does anyone know of any way to get information?
She is in Utah.

I am seeing a therapist (for about six weeks now)
Trying to arrange therapy for the kids too.
What else should I be doing.
Thanks for any help or support.
Roc

I am late to the party here, but definitely wanted to welcome you  and assure you that yes you are indeed in the right place. Feel free to share as much as you want or need to. Also, don't be afraid to ask questions. This is definitely a safe place to have high level discussions and additionally have an engaging base who understand and get it.

Beyond that I will monitor and check in and if you have questions for me feel free.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Roc]

Sorry for never following up things became very hectic just after my last post.
My wife was released by court order "Against Medical Advise" as the courts had determined that she was not a threat to herself or others. 
We were told that we could arrange transport for her or she could walk out the front door of the hospital.
The hospital was very apologetic that " This is not how it is supposed to happen"
She refused to have someone pick her up and would only accept me buying her a bus ticket home (If I had not done this she would have been on the streets 5 hours and 250 miles from home.
Things seemed to go well after she returned home until now.
But she continued to hear voices and refuse treatment.
I will make a new post with the current Issues
Things can sure go from looking up to terrible in a hurry.
Roc

[Chief Drizzt]

Sorry for never following up things became very hectic just after my last post.
My wife was released by court order "Against Medical Advise" as the courts had determined that she was not a threat to herself or others. 
We were told that we could arrange transport for her or she could walk out the front door of the hospital.
The hospital was very apologetic that " This is not how it is supposed to happen"
She refused to have someone pick her up and would only accept me buying her a bus ticket home (If I had not done this she would have been on the streets 5 hours and 250 miles from home.
Things seemed to go well after she returned home until now.
But she continued to hear voices and refuse treatment.
I will make a new post with the current Issues
Things can sure go from looking up to terrible in a hurry.
Roc

Hey Roc -

Been reading this thread about your situation and just want you to know that I am really sorry you are going through all this.  I wish I could give you some advice but I’m recently new to all this as well.  Sounds like there is more going on than BPD - not to diminish that because it’s absolutely horrible - but from what I’m reading it seems different.  Regardless I can’t imagine what you are going through.  Keep us posted…

[PearlsBefore]

Right from the first post, I was wondering if it wasn't schizoaffective - so I generally agree with Drizzt here. Don't wed yourself too closely to the term BPD, don't rely on saying she's BPD to paramedics or therapists in the hopes they'll know what to expect...figure out exactly what it is.

That said, you're definitely welcome here and many of us have experience handling various similar mental health loved ones (and presumably at least some of us are likely caretaking something other than BPD while thinking it's BPD!)

Keep in mind that even if a certain type of therapy is suggested as best for your children, there's a difference between "Dr. Right" and "Dr. Right Now" - I'd make an effort to get them into "something" as soon as possible, whether that's counseling, therapy, etc. In part they'll get the placebo effect just from getting their thoughts off their chest, being able to unload at someone who doesn't sit at the dinner table in a few hours or see them in the hallways, etc.

In a bizarre way, our primal need for therapy/counselling is not entirely wrong when people laugh "Oh, therapy is just a way of saying you pay for someone to listen to you like a friend should!" - but at the same time, the benefit of therapy is similar to the old joke about paying for carnal delights...it's not that you COULDN'T go talk to someone else perhaps...but you're paying this person to not be gossiping, not sitting across from you asking for updates at Thanksgiving Dinner, not throwing it back in your face in a heated argument two years from now.

You're paying them TO be at arms' length - and even children see the value in that. They may talk more easily to "This is a stranger, they'll see you for 30 minutes today and not more than ten times in your entire life" than they will to a teacher who is going to know their innermost thoughts every time they're called up to the chalkboard, or a relative they have to still play Monopoly with at random intervals, etc.

It's late, I'm over-tired and over-caffeinated, but hopefully if you squint and re-read it a few times you'll understand what I'm trying to say.

Welcome to the community, we're glad to have you but we're sorry you needed to come.