I want to learn from my past mistakes, but I feel that I'm failing

[Life Student]

Before I begin, I apologize in advance for any mistakes on my part due to this being my first time posting.

I'll begin with some background information in order to make more sense of what is currently happening in the present.

I've known my ex-girlfriend since middle school. She had a troubled childhood due to having a mother with mental illness and a father who was a struggling alcoholic. Since that time, she became attached to me and we've been thru many, many situations together.

On my side of things, I've grown up in a religious household (Christian) that has become slightly more lax as time has moved on. Unfortunately, my parents have always been strongly opinionated and this has resulted in conflicts between myself and them. Among which, is my relationship with my ex-girlfriend and her mental illness.

In regards to the present, my ex-girlfriend is someone I deeply love and care about, but due to the circumstances we find ourselves in, she is becoming more and more frequently belligerent. She uses my circumstances against me and dismisses or outright denies anything I've ever done for her. Yet despite this, she desperately wishes to have a relationship with me.

I too wish for a long-term relationship with her, however, since we broke-up earlier this year, I've been researching and figuring out what happened while we were in a relationship.

We'd been wishing to have a relationship together for years, and after having gone thru so much for such a long time, we finally began dating earlier this year! Only for it to last a few months (~3 months) and then crash and burn.
Not only that, she decided to burn any bridges (by confronting my dad personally), and now when things are getting worse for her (she has personal circumstances which are making her consider moving out-of-state), she's blaming me for not having made something out of my life sooner and moving out on my own.

She says that it's all my fault that things got out of hand and that her demands while we were together were bare minimum. (She wanted me to start sleeping over once a week to comfort her if she had nightmares)
She recommended that I start therapy so that I can set boundaries for my parents and so that I can confront my dad whenever he disagrees on what he is ok with and what he's not. (Such as allowing me to sleep over)

I'm starting a school program next week which will land me a job by its conclusion and I'm looking into starting therapy to sort out all of the things I've been thru with her and the things that she accuses me of.

We still talk every few days, but as I pointed out earlier, it's getting harder and harder to avoid our conversation from devolving into her just digging into me and demanding things of me. I try to validate her thoughts and opinions, but honestly, I'm still not very good at not validating invalid things.

As I mentioned previously as well, I love her very much, and I do want to have a long-term relationship with her, but I don't want to fall back into the same problems we had before.

She says I don't love her the way she loves me, that I don't fight for her like she fights for me, that I'm too passive and that I'm looking for "the path of least resistance".

If there are any thoughts or advice in terms of what I can do, or how I can communicate better with her, I'd very much appreciate it.

If there are any questions regarding specific details that might be helpful, feel free to ask.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Life Student]

I'd additionally like to add that she is currently seeing a new therapist (as her previous one did not take her time seriously) and that she has officially been diagnosed with depression, anxiety, and PTSD.

Unfortunately, she has yet (that I know of) to be diagnosed with BPD, however, she exhibits BPD traits. I would really like to point her in the right direction so that she can be informed about DBT, but as Dr. Amador says in his video, I shouldn't drop that on her.

If there are any suggestions regarding on what I can do in the meantime, that would also be appreciated.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Life Student - Welcome!:
Sorry about your situation.  You have a lot to think over.  You can't change another person & the behaviors you see are the behaviors you are apt to experience in the future.  With honest acknowledgement of behavioral issues and a desire to work on them, some behaviors can tame for periods of time, but they generally are apt to be back during stressful times.  At least staying apart right now, while you both hopefully have some therapy, you can remove the chance of an unplanned pregnancy (which would create more problems)

People with BPD or BPD traits tend to couple with a rescuer, who is co-dependent and a people pleaser.  Blame is a common trait, as well as their desire to alienate a partner from family and friends.  Controlling behavior, is another trait that is common, as well as being hypercritical.  Nothing you do is good enough and they are never pleased.

The fact that she fired one therapist, because the therapist was wasting her time, seems a bit narcissistic. Either that, or the therapist hit on some truths that she couldn't handle.

What I'm reading in your post is that she want's to fix you and your dad.  Instead of her learning how to self-soothe in healthy ways, she wants you to be in bed with her to be her rescuer.

She had a troubled childhood due to having a mother with mental illness and a father who was a struggling alcoholic. Since that time, she became attached to me and we've been thru many, many situations together.  

Mental health issues can be genetic.  Her father's alcoholism likely relates to some untreated issues, and he is using alcohol to self-soothe.  If you have children with her, either in or out of wedlock, you have a greater chance of having a mentally ill child.  If you have a normal child with her, then you have to consider how she would parent a child and what the fall out could be for a child.

Her suggestion for therapy for you is a great suggestion, but not for the reasons she wants.  I suggest you explore the possibility that you are being co-dependent and perhaps a people pleaser.  Since, you have known each other since childhood, it would be good to explore if some FOG is in play (Fear, Obligation & Guild). Click on the link below to read about Fear, Obligation & Guilt:

FOG

I try to validate her thoughts and opinions, but honestly, I'm still not very good at not validating invalid things.
 

 Validation/Don't Invalidate is in regard to feelings.  NEVER VALIDATE invalid facts, opinions or thoughts that you don't agree with.  In the context of mental health issues, it's about FEELINGS.  i.e.:  I can see you are angry.  I'm sorry your are feeling sad.  It must be hard for you to wake up anxious each morning, etc.

Sometime it can be hard to verbally validate feelings, so what becomes important is to NOT INVALIDATE by word, expression, tone or body language. The link below will lead to some info.:
DON'T INVALIDATE

On my side of things, I've grown up in a religious household (Christian) that has become slightly more lax as time has moved on. Unfortunately, my parents have always been strongly opinionated and this has resulted in conflicts between myself and them. Among which, is my relationship with my ex-girlfriend and her mental illness. . .

She recommended that I start therapy so that I can set boundaries for my parents and so that I can confront my dad whenever he disagrees on what he is ok with and what he's not. (Such as allowing me to sleep over)  

 
I don't think that most Christian's have become so lax that they condone premarital sex, especially parents.  I can see how your dad wants you to have a happy life, find a mentally and physically healthy partner and have healthy children.  

You are young and have your whole life ahead of you.  Take your time.  Be sure you know what your morals and boundaries are.  Do you believe in divorce or maybe only in certain circumstances?  Figure those things out

You control your boundaries and your dad controls his.  So, dad can tell you that if you are going to sleep over at girlfriend's house, you have to move out of his house and find your own place to live. Although he can't stop you from having sex with your girlfriend, he can eliminate having to know when you spend the night.

I love her very much, and I do want to have a long-term relationship with her, but I don't want to fall back into the same problems we had before.

She says I don't love her the way she loves me, that I don't fight for her like she fights for me, that I'm too passive and that I'm looking for "the path of least resistance".
  

 Abiding by your dad's wishes could work in your favor right now.  Actually, you NOT spending the night with her, to soothe her and rescue her is more apt to force her to learn healthy ways to self-soothe.  She has to learn to manage herself, or what you have seen is what you will get.

Being apart, can be good initial start to individual therapy for both of you.  Once you honestly and openly share everything you mention here with a therapist, you can begin to explore if this relationship is right for you.  Should you decide that she is the best partner for you, in order to have a happy life, then you might consider joint therapy and see how that goes.

Others might offer different opinions, but I'm reading that she intends to fix you.  Although she going to therapy, got to wonder how honest she is being about her issues.  If someone can't admit that they are controlling and have a problem blaming others for everything, then that behavior won't change.

DBT can offer skills that can help her, ways to self-soothe, handle emotions and improve the moment.  There is no magic, no "one & done".  A person has to have a desire to learn/embrace the skills and apply them.  Even if someone embraces DBD,. that doesn't necessarily fix behaviors that they won't admit to.  

[Life Student]

Thank you for the welcome and for your insightful reply. I really appreciate the feedback! It makes me feel like I'm not posting into the internet void.

Sorry about your situation.  You have a lot to think over.  You can't change another person & the behaviors you see are the behaviors you are apt to experience in the future.  With honest acknowledgement of behavioral issues and a desire to work on them, some behaviors can tame for periods of time, but they generally are apt to be back during stressful times.

This is a harsh reality that I've indeed been mulling over. I agree and understand that I won't be able to bring about any change of my own volition, nor will any substantial change occur overnight, however, there are certain studies that I've read that give me hope that things can possibly go well in the future. It makes me imagine that it might not necessarily be a life sentence.

Articles such as:
Time to Attainment of Recovery From Borderline Personality Disorder and Stability of Recovery: A 10-year Prospective Follow-Up Study
https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.2009.09081130

Attainment and Stability of Sustained Symptomatic Remission and Recovery Among Patients With Borderline Personality Disorder and Axis II Comparison Subjects: A 16-Year Prospective Follow-Up Study
https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.2011.11101550

The Outcome of Borderline Personality Disorder: Good for Most But Not All Patients
https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.2012.12010092#

Blame is a common trait, as well as their desire to alienate a partner from family and friends.

An interesting point here is that she both wants me to be independent of my parents, but she also wants to be loved by my parents. She wants them to approve of her as my partner, but she also tells me that I don't need their validation. At times it becomes very confusing as to what she really wants.

The fact that she fired one therapist, because the therapist was wasting her time, seems a bit narcissistic. Either that, or the therapist hit on some truths that she couldn't handle.

Something that I feel I should mention here is that at one point, according to my ex-gf, this therapist was advising her to break up with me. Not only that, but that the therapist believed that my relationship with my parents was going to be a long-term or life-long problem. She used this therapist multiple times to back-up her claims of whatever she thinks is wrong with me. After we broke-up, she would still bring up the therapist as someone who validated her concerns regarding me. I'm really not sure what to make of any of that.

Mental health issues can be genetic. ... If you have children with her, either in or out of wedlock, you have a greater chance of having a mentally ill child.  If you have a normal child with her, then you have to consider how she would parent a child and what the fall out could be for a child.

This is a legitimate concern that my dad has brought up before. It's another hard reality that I think about often. I can rationalize my decisions though ("There's always a potential for complications and genetic abnormalities to occur"), so I think going over my thoughts with a therapist might help me clear things up for me. In regards to parenting, after having read some other posts that mention what it's like to be a parent with a pwBPD, that is a heavy and sobering thought. I'll be sure to think on that much more.

I suggest you explore the possibility that you are being co-dependent and perhaps a people pleaser.  Since, you have known each other since childhood, it would be good to explore if some FOG is in play.

If I go by the Cermak definition of codependency, I do exhibit some codependent traits. Though whether or not I am codependent would be difficult for me to say. It is definitely something I considered while reading up on BPD relationships. Though I will admit that there is definitely some FOG in play. That is something I have to work on and also bring up with a therapist.

Validation/Don't Invalidate is in regard to feelings.  NEVER VALIDATE invalid facts, opinions or thoughts that you don't agree with.  In the context of mental health issues, it's about FEELINGS.

Ah, that's where I've been making a mistake. Thank you for that correction! I've been thinking about how it could be that one could both validate but not invalidate false accusations and thoughts/opinions that one doesn't agree with. The keyword I was missing there was feelings. That is something I'll definitely keep in mind going forward.

Is there a way that you might know of so that I could express disagreement in terms of false accusations or thoughts/opinions that I don't agree with without inciting hostility?

I don't think that most Christian's have become so lax that they condone premarital sex, especially parents. ...

You are young and have your whole life ahead of you.  Take your time.  Be sure you know what your morals and boundaries are.  Do you believe in divorce or maybe only in certain circumstances?  Figure those things out

You control your boundaries and your dad controls his.  So, dad can tell you that if you are going to sleep over at girlfriend's house, you have to move out of his house and find your own place to live. Although he can't stop you from having sex with your girlfriend, he can eliminate having to know when you spend the night.

You would be correct in thinking that. In a rare instance of agreement, my parents, myself, and my ex-gf all agreed that we would wait for marriage before my ex-gf and I would begin to have a sexual relationship (which would include intercourse). This brought about other issues, however, regarding how I would go about relieving her hypersexual episodes.

Thankfully, I can say that I'm steadfast when it comes to my morals and boundaries. The problem I've had is dealing with the fallout of when I refuse to budge. Whenever I explain/have explained why I was against something, oftentimes it resulted in souring my ex-gf's mood, which resulted in being accused of either always wanting things my way or dismissing her wants/desires.

Thank you for bringing up my dad's boundaries. I've been told I should be old enough to have the freedom to do as I please. Although I might not always agree with my dad's rules and suggestions, I've always thought so as long as I live under his roof, I want to respect him and the rules he's set. I find comfort in having someone else acknowledge that my dad should also have his boundaries respected.

Others might offer different opinions, but I'm reading that she intends to fix you.

 

My close friends have both suggested that she intends to fix me as well. The way she expresses herself at times is that I'm lagging behind in multiple areas of my life and that she is pushing me to be better. According to her, she needs me to be independent, to be emotionally mature, to be in therapy, to be there for her, etc. Although she says it's for my own good, the results are ultimately for her benefit.

Although she going to therapy, got to wonder how honest she is being about her issues.  If someone can't admit that they are controlling and have a problem blaming others for everything, then that behavior won't change.

DBT can offer skills that can help her, ways to self-soothe, handle emotions and improve the moment.  There is no magic, no "one & done".  A person has to have a desire to learn/embrace the skills and apply them.  Even if someone embraces DBD,. that doesn't necessarily fix behaviors that they won't admit to.

As I mentioned above, whenever she told me what her therapist "told" her, I always took it with a grain of salt. I was once asked by one of my close friends, "Do you really think a professional therapist would make generalizations about someone they haven't met? Or even try to make some kind of diagnosis of someone they've never talked to?" I don't know what she's said about herself or how I'm spoken about by her to her therapists. There was an incident where I asked her if she'd brought up that she often got enraged and would swear at me/start speaking profanities, to which she became angry and accused me of implying that she was hiding things from her therapist and potentially even be lying to her therapist. I feel like she might be suffering from anosognosia, which I feel might hinder any progress she could be making.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi again Life Student:

I feel like she might be suffering from anosognosia, which I feel might hinder any progress she could be making.      

Inability for someone to admit to a mental illness (anosognosia), or a specific mental illness is common

I've seen it mentioned here by admin, that they believe most of the posters on the relationship boards are dealing with partners with BPD traits, as opposed to a diagnosed person with BPD, per the DSM.

Someone could qualify as being in remission or recovering from BPD, by losing a trait or two. The studies you are reading about relate to that.  Someone may lose a couple of traits, lose the label of BPD, but still be impossible to live with, because they sill have several of the traits that they won't admit to or can't or won't honestly work on.  Additionally, stressful life events can easily bring back a trait or two and they will qualify for the diagnosis, per the DSM, down the road.

BPD generally doesn't stand alone, as there are usually multiple mental health issues in play.  Depression, anxiety and bipolar are 3 of the most common.  It's not like you can do a test and have a lab give your results.  The diagnosis can be subjective and depends on how honest a patient is about their behaviors, and some patients just can't admit to certain behaviors.  It's common for patients to get different diagnoses over time.  Sometime, whatever they are diagnosed with can be accurate, at a point in time.  Other times, it's a matter of an opinion by a different professional, or what is unveiled to them at a point in time.

It can be best to relate to what the problem behaviors are, as opposed to a diagnosis.

Is there a way that you might know of so that I could express disagreement in terms of false accusations or thoughts/opinions that I don't agree with without inciting hostility?  

BELOW IS QUOTED INFORMATION FROM RANDI KREGER (Author of "Stop Walking on Eggshells"). Randi Kreger has initiated a couple of threads here and has made comments in a few others.  I abstracted the suggested strategy below, from the thread, at the address below:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=333235.msg13032076#msg13032076

1.  During a quiet time, set a consequence of verbal abuse.

2.  Make a statement in advance of a situation: i.e. “If or when you (describe behavior) I feel X. It is frightening to me. Etc. when this happens.

3.  I will ask you to stop, reminding you of this discussion. If you continue, I will leave the room. If you follow me and continue, I will leave the house until I can feel calm and safe.

4. Then I will text or call to see if you are calmer.

I will be doing this each and every time things get out of hand. I know it won’t be easy at first, and I wouldn’t be surprised if you test me several times to see if I follow through.

I have made a firm commitment to myself to back up my words with action, whether or not it’s convenient. I cannot live any other way. I hope once we settle this issue, we can become closer”
_______________________________________________________________________

The workshop at the links below should be helpful:
DON'T JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain) and avoid circular arguments

This brought about other issues, however, regarding how I would go about relieving her hypersexual episodes.

 Hypersexual behavior might sound like a dream situation for some.  I suspect it could get very old down the road, if it equates to you never being enough for her and/or never satisfying her.   If she isn't able to be faithful, then it could be a big deal breaker.  

Thankfully, I can say that I'm steadfast when it comes to my morals and boundaries. The problem I've had is dealing with the fallout of when I refuse to budge. Whenever I explain/have explained why I was against something, oftentimes it resulted in souring my ex-gf's mood, which resulted in being accused of either always wanting things my way or dismissing her wants/desires.    

I'm sure you are aware of the logic of being "equally yoked" with a partner.  Perhaps that is something to think through, maybe with a traditional therapist, or a religious counselor.  Perhaps it could be good to consult both.

I congratulate you on being steadfast in regard to your morals and boundaries.  You have to decide if you want to stay in a relationship, where you can expect her to always be in a bad mood, if she can't get you to budge on your boundaries.

It can be expected that things get worse, before improving, when you start to enforce a boundary.  After some time, without improvement, you may have to accept that she will be in a bad mood whenever she doesn't get her way.  You have to stay consistent with enforcing your boundaries.  If you enforce some times, but relent on other occasions, you will never make any progress.

As I mentioned above, whenever she told me what her therapist "told" her, I always took it with a grain of salt. I was once asked by one of my close friends, "Do you really think a professional therapist would make generalizations about someone they haven't met? Or even try to make some kind of diagnosis of someone they've never talked to?" I don't know what she's said about herself or how I'm spoken about by her to her therapists. There was an incident where I asked her if she'd brought up that she often got enraged and would swear at me/start speaking profanities, to which she became angry and accused me of implying that she was hiding things from her therapist and potentially even be lying to her therapist. I feel like she might be suffering from anosognosia, which I feel might hinder any progress she could be making.    

I agree with your wise friends. What is your diagnosis, according to your girlfriend?

A therapist can't diagnose someone that isn't a client.  Some people with BPD and narcissistic traits can be very good at hiding their traits in therapy.  Some people might only admit to something like depression and/or anxiety during therapy, with most of the time spend talking about what they believe is problem behaviors on the part of their partner.

If you read enough threads, you will hear certain stories over and over.  One that I've heard repeated is that the disordered person reports that the therapist said things like "The partner is the problem".  So, you can't believe the supposed quotes from the therapist.  Even if a therapist did say some things that were repeated to you, it's likely based on your partners skewed opinions.

So, if you seriously want to make the relationship work, individual therapy for you.  If you then decide that she is a keeper for a permanent relationship, then try some couple's therapy.  Then, if marriage is something you are thinking about, consider some counseling via the church.  I believe some churches require some level of premarital counseling.

One last thing, you might find the article at the link below interesting, about why people with personality disorders lie so much:

Why Do Narcissists and Borderlines Lie So Much?

Let us know if you try the strategy Randy gave and how it went.

[Life Student]

Hello again, Naughty Nibbler (typing your username makes me giggle)

I've seen it mentioned here by admin, that they believe most of the posters on the relationship boards are dealing with partners with BPD traits, as opposed to a diagnosed person with BPD, per the DSM.
...
BPD generally doesn't stand alone, as there are usually multiple mental health issues in play.  Depression, anxiety and bipolar are 3 of the most common.  It's not like you can do a test and have a lab give your results.  The diagnosis can be subjective and depends on how honest a patient is about their behaviors, and some patients just can't admit to certain behaviors.  It's common for patients to get different diagnoses over time...

I would be inclined to believe that, at least in my case, they're BPD traits as opposed to fully diagnosable BPD due to the high possibility of comorbidity. Though I can't also throw out the possibility that that could change with time.

It can be best to relate to what the problem behaviors are, as opposed to a diagnosis.

As of these past 2 weeks, I've been putting this mindset into practice. It is a big help, and for that, I give you thanks for emphasizing it.

BELOW IS QUOTED INFORMATION FROM RANDI KREGER

Recently I've been giving her space, so I haven't had much interaction with her. However, should another flareup occur, I'll be sure to try this out and give you a heads-up as to the results, as requested.

The workshop at the links below should be helpful:
DON'T JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain) and avoid circular arguments

Again, I'll give you major thank you's for this! I recall having seen this written as an article here on BPDfamily, but I can't seem to find it. However, after having gone over this post, I decided to give the advice a try. And hoo boy! She got angry when I tried it out! After using it during a conversation, she got so frustrated from not soliciting the reaction she wanted, that she just hung up on me and didn't talk to me for 2 days. When she did get back to me, she said she wanted to talk again and that she would do her best to hold her temper back. (And while she never apologized for being rude and hanging up suddenly, she did remain calm during the conversation)

Hypersexual behavior might sound like a dream situation for some.  I suspect it could get very old down the road, if it equates to you never being enough for her and/or never satisfying her.   If she isn't able to be faithful, then it could be a big deal breaker.

I could definitely see it being a big problem for some. Thankfully in my case, I found ways that would both satisfy her and tucker her out.
As for the issue of fidelity, that's a tough one for me, which could indeed be a major deal-breaker. Not because she was ever unfaithful when we were together, but because as soon as we broke-up, she slept with some strangers because, as she put it, "according to my therapist, it's alright to seek love and sex". She additionally tried to justify it in other ways, yet ultimately, after one horrible experience she decided to stop and has since kept to herself (at least, as far as she's told me).
It's hard to make the BPD trait distinct from the conscious actions she takes sometimes.

I'm sure you are aware of the logic of being "equally yoked" with a partner.  Perhaps that is something to think through, maybe with a traditional therapist, or a religious counselor.  Perhaps it could be good to consult both.

This is something that I've certainly taken into consideration. I've been doing my best to start therapy (in order to talk through all these thoughts/feelings), but due to the unfortunate circumstances brought about by the pandemic, it's been difficult to find one. I'll be sure to bring these things up though!

I congratulate you on being steadfast in regard to your morals and boundaries.  You have to decide if you want to stay in a relationship, where you can expect her to always be in a bad mood, if she can't get you to budge on your boundaries.

It can be expected that things get worse, before improving, when you start to enforce a boundary.  After some time, without improvement, you may have to accept that she will be in a bad mood whenever she doesn't get her way.  You have to stay consistent with enforcing your boundaries.  If you enforce some times, but relent on other occasions, you will never make any progress.

After having put the advice from the JADE post into practice, I can see how things might be difficult before improving. In the meantime, I'll be doing my best to find more techniques and advice as to what I can do for myself and how I might relate to her while life goes on. I've been feeling more relieved as of late because I don't feel like I'm being crushed by her moods and reactions. I'll be sure to slowly, but surely, enforce my boundaries moving forward.

What is your diagnosis, according to your girlfriend?

According to her, I'm in a toxic relationship with my parents. That I'm overly dependent on them and that I'm "emotionally immature".

A therapist can't diagnose someone that isn't a client.  Some people with BPD and narcissistic traits can be very good at hiding their traits in therapy.  Some people might only admit to something like depression and/or anxiety during therapy, with most of the time spend talking about what they believe is problem behaviors on the part of their partner.

If you read enough threads, you will hear certain stories over and over.  One that I've heard repeated is that the disordered person reports that the therapist said things like "The partner is the problem".  So, you can't believe the supposed quotes from the therapist.  Even if a therapist did say some things that were repeated to you, it's likely based on your partners skewed opinions.

After a certain point, I began having suspicions that she might be talking more with her therapist about me and us, rather than herself, which would lead to skewed conclusions from whatever the therapist would reply. I feel relieved to know that according to others' experiences, it would seem my suspicions are sort of validated.

So, if you seriously want to make the relationship work, individual therapy for you.  If you then decide that she is a keeper for a permanent relationship, then try some couple's therapy.  Then, if marriage is something you are thinking about, consider some counseling via the church.  I believe some churches require some level of premarital counseling.

As aforementioned, I will definitely keep looking to start therapy. Although some of what I've been reading occasionally brings me down and makes me wonder what will become of us down the road, I still want to see how things play out.


Again, thank you so much for your replies and for pointing me towards necessary info!


P.S. - I'll be sure to post any updates in regards to the advice given by Randi too!

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey Life Student!
Good to hear back from you.  I appreciate your feedback.

Sounds like you are doing a good job and have a few successes.  It takes time to change things.  The communication skills you are learning can serve you well anywhere in life - with co-workers, friends, family, etc.

According to her, I'm in a toxic relationship with my parents. That I'm overly dependent on them and that I'm "emotionally immature".

Some people tend to project and say that YOU are exhibiting the behavior that THEY are actually exhibiting. 

It can be challenging to enforce boundaries for your morals and values.  Parents are proud, when they can see evidence that their children embrace the values that they tried hard to teach.  It's not a sign of emotional inmaturity to enforce your boundaries. 

I've been doing my best to start therapy (in order to talk through all these thoughts/feelings), but due to the unfortunate circumstances brought about by the pandemic, it's been difficult to find one. 

The website below has info. about the best online therapy programs
https://www.verywellmind.com/best-online-therapy-4691206

I suggest you check out Betterhelp and Talkspace.  Check out the specific websites.  If you have a problem finding the pricing, you might want to do a separate internet search for the program name & then add "pricing", so you can get to bottom line of their pricing structure more quickly.

When you are ready, her are a couple more good communication tools to try out:

SET = A statement that contains, Support, Empathy and Truth.  Click on the link below/green letters to go to a workshop on SET.

SET (Support, Empathy and Truth)

"I" Statement: The focus is on "I'" (you) not on "YOU" (your partner).  The template is:  When ____happens, I feel ______. I'd rather have ______

i.e.  When I am yelled at, I feel unloved and frustrated,   I'd like for us to discuss issues calmly.

I don't believe there is a workshop here for "I" Statements in this context.  If you do an internet search, you can find several articles on it and even some YouTube examples of using it.

Take care & take it a step at a time.  You are doing a good job!

[once removed]

An interesting point here is that she both wants me to be independent of my parents, but she also wants to be loved by my parents. She wants them to approve of her as my partner, but she also tells me that I don't need their validation. At times it becomes very confusing as to what she really wants.

there may be several things going on here. i dealt with clashes between my ex and my parents, too. my ex liked to use them to push buttons.

women, in general, want their partner to be independent from their parents. its a perfectly healthy desire.

its not healthy to try to force that independence, or to try to come between your relationship with your parents. the motivations that drive it generally arent either.

additionally, one thing i noticed about myself and my ex is that we had very different upbringings. thats not necessarily uncommon by any means. but it does affect our worldview, our sense of whats normal, right, wrong, etc. we tend to judge the upbringing of others in comparison to our own. that may be going on here, too.

regarding whether or not she has bpd or bpd traits: its kind of semantics, in the sense that a person who has bpd traits, rather than full blown bpd, could hypothetically be an even more difficult person to love and to deal with. with just bpd traits, you could have a person more set in their ways, and less likely to change. or it could be the opposite. its a spectrum disorder, so its difficult to say.

suffice to say, you are in, and you are in for, a difficult relationship, and the good news is that the tools will help, whether she has bpd, bpd traits, depression, bipolar, or if shes the single healthiest person walking on gods green earth. i havent had anyone with bpd traits in my life for a long time, and i use them all the time.

they are awkward and unnatural at first, when the key to their effectiveness is using them naturally and authentically. they take some practice, so id encourage you to use them with everybody!