How long should hope last?

[Simple80s]

Hi All,

New here and too late it seems. Sure I’m not the first to say “I wish I’d found this site sooner”, yet blocked, apology letter and flowers later, nothing. The silence is deafening and future plans to be rewritten because I didn’t understand the sensitivities and vastness of triggers  that are detailed in the other  experiences I’ve read here that echo many of mine. I’m exhausted, spent months on end proving myself to rebuttals of ‘you seem happy to lose me, I don’t want that, I want someone that won’t let me go’ at al, to the point I felt confused enough to often believe it was me initiate the numerous break ups from such comments.

I can’t sensibly do anything else to show I care, not after being blocked. I have my concerns why, examples of inducing jealousy and actual betrayal present, to what extent never shared.

Please can people tell me, how long is enough until all hope is lost to know that there is low chance of a higher functioning relationship?

My empathy remains high as my thoughts of most the relationship too but my energy low. I would love her to be part of my future but I can’t wait indefinitely for such a possibility. There were many times she was actively engage in breaking our patterns but there was always an unknown around the corner leading to cycles of varying lengths, hours, days, weeks.

[Huntinfool123]

   and welcome Simple80s

I am new to this as well.  For me the low energy is from depression my T says. With the research I've done, it varies.  There are many factors that may contribute to this like, length of relationship, quality of relationship, if they have found someone else to attach to, etc.  I am going through this with a 24 year marriage.

From what I have found in my research, these are things I have seen repeated:
-we can't change them
-we can only change ourselves
-we should focus more on our well being (easier said than done), but this is good for multiple reasons
-If you want them back try to become what they were attracted to in the beginning of the relationship
-you will never get the idealized part of the relationship back again like you did in the beginning
-Even if you did get them back, the cycle will continue and each time it will get shorter and shorter
-She is aware of how you feel if you have reached out and sent gifts, etc. 
-She will most likely come back when and if it benefits her
 
I am struggling myself.  My wife however hasn't discarded me completely yet.  We are still in contact and at times she is nice, it seems to me like she is only trying to hurt me more ( probably unintentional and projecting her feelings).  She still wants to socialize within the same friend group.  For me, she hasn't met anyone else that I am aware of.  If she did, I would certainly stop trying.  That decision is up to you though.  I say this because my situation is different than yours.

As how long, who knows?  It would probably  best for you to find yourself, who you are, what you want.  That is what I am doing, easier said than done at times.  It seems to be helping me get out of the FOG. Do your own thing.  If you both cross paths again and you are strong, confident and assertive I would be inclined to think that would attract her back to you.  If the paths don't cross, you will be more apt to attract someone else.  In the end we all deserve to be happy and only WE can create happiness.  Relying on someone else to make us happy isn't healthy and it gives NARC's and NPD's power over us.  I speak from experience on this.

I hope this helps and someone else can chime in to get you through this.

Take care and be strong my friend!

[Simple80s]

Thanks Huntinfool, with those parameters I’m less optimistic and something inside tells me that this time is different. It was really cold.

I’m pleased to hear that you still have the opportunity for your wife to see you for your qualities. I would encourage you to make those shine and hope she is aware enough to see them.

I have some good fortune in my life for a while now outside of the relationship which I have to continue growing. I guess I need to rework my idea of the near to medium at least, get out of the fog as you mention as best possible. Feels like I’ve been future faked, ideas of starting a family and moving in together etc.

I’m so confused, I dropped the ball with this. My pride and a sense of residual resentment for always taking blame collided to where I spoke my mind in defence after a week of accusations, I think I’ve been blacked indefinitely. Things that keep me confused and concerned it’s over OVER, is prior to breaking up with me via text was how incongruent everything seems leading up to it, I wonder if I was actually being replaced or if it’s just more attempts to get a reaction of some kind.

Does anyone know if people with BPD deliberately attempt to induce jealousy from there partner? Perhaps as a way to check they still care.

[Collaguazo]

Hi Simple80s,

I also recently broke up with my girlfriend and I identify with lots of what you say. I finally gave up because as you mention, your partner keeps demanding more and more and I realized it was never gonna be sufficient.

About the jealousy part, that’s were I am conflicted. At the beginning of the relationship, when she was angry, she would say things like you should be grateful of being with me because I know X number of guys that would die to be with me. I thought this was a way to make me feel jealous and show I still wanted her.

But then during one of her outbursts she told me her ex boyfriend got in touch with her and wanted her back. This happened a couple of times and after calming down she would deny it or downplay the situation and later say she only loved me and felt nothing for him. Now I wasn’t sure if she was only saying to get a reaction from me or still had feelings for her ex.

One day we were having some drinks at my place, already a bit drunk and after I came back from the bathroom I caught her typing a message to her ex. She panicked, tried to hide her phone saying she was texting her sister. I confronted her and she eventually let me saw the chat. Oh man, it was brutal. There were walls of text with love emojis, saying how much they missed each other, etc. To be honest, we were pretty wasted at this time and the next day she had a vague recollection of what happened. She only remembered that I caught her typing a message to him but she said that it was probably to tell him to stop bothering her or something like that. I didn’t say anything about the texts but the next weekend in another one of her outbursts she told me she kissed with him. Of course she denied right away again with the I was hurting speech but after seeing those messages beforehand, I just couldn’t believe her any longer.

After a few days, she calmed down and told her that her comment really hurt me and that I was worried that she was still romantically involved with him. She looked me straight in the eyes and said that no, she didn’t feel anything for him anymore and that she only had chatted with him sporadically.

So yeah now I am banging my head thinking if she really cheated on me, or used me to get over him, or used him to get back at me… are they now together again? I have no idea.

[SinisterComplex]

Hi All,

New here and too late it seems. Sure I’m not the first to say “I wish I’d found this site sooner”, yet blocked, apology letter and flowers later, nothing. The silence is deafening and future plans to be rewritten because I didn’t understand the sensitivities and vastness of triggers  that are detailed in the other  experiences I’ve read here that echo many of mine. I’m exhausted, spent months on end proving myself to rebuttals of ‘you seem happy to lose me, I don’t want that, I want someone that won’t let me go’ at al, to the point I felt confused enough to often believe it was me initiate the numerous break ups from such comments.

I can’t sensibly do anything else to show I care, not after being blocked. I have my concerns why, examples of inducing jealousy and actual betrayal present, to what extent never shared.

Please can people tell me, how long is enough until all hope is lost to know that there is low chance of a higher functioning relationship?

My empathy remains high as my thoughts of most the relationship too but my energy low. I would love her to be part of my future but I can’t wait indefinitely for such a possibility. There were many times she was actively engage in breaking our patterns but there was always an unknown around the corner leading to cycles of varying lengths, hours, days, weeks.

Welcome to the fam  . You definitely found the right place. Happy you found us, but sorry for the circumstances that have led to you seeking us out.

With that said please feel free to share as much as you want to and ask as many questions as you need to.

The only part I am going to comment on for right now is this "My empathy remains high as my thoughts of most the relationship too but my energy low. I would love her to be part of my future but I can’t wait indefinitely for such a possibility." - Never put your life on hold for anyone else. Put the focus on yourself and let things naturally fall into place instead of trying to fit them into place. Take advantage of every opportunity and always strive to put yourself into positions to where the best outcomes can take place. Beyond that let the chips fall where they may and the universe do its thing.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Simple80s]

Thanks for the welcoming and encouragement.

Could I ask anyone thoughts as to why a SO would posture that they are ending the relationship continually with statements like; “you seem happy to lose me”, “you aren’t showing me you want me as a partner” etc even though I’m literally fighting with everything to deny that’s the case, it hurts so much to hear. It’s like my words and feelings are being deliberately ignored and blame is being shifted. Is there a resin behind this?

[Huntinfool123]

I wish I knew the reasoning behind why they say those things.  I can tell you I have received similar statements.  I struggled trying to make sense of it myself.  I have heard "you should be doing a dance we are all leaving you and you get the house to yourself".  I never said anything of the sort and never felt that way. She knows that I get anxiety when they are gone for a while.  The closest thing I can come up with it's projecting their thoughts?  Even the projection concept evades me with some topics.  Quite honestly I wonder if they know at times.  One thing for sure is in my case I have tried to to deny and correct those things with her to no avail.

[kells76]

One view that might help answer these questions

Could I ask anyone thoughts as to why a SO would posture that they are ending the relationship continually with statements like; “you seem happy to lose me”, “you aren’t showing me you want me as a partner” etc even though I’m literally fighting with everything to deny that’s the case, it hurts so much to hear. It’s like my words and feelings are being deliberately ignored and blame is being shifted. Is there a resin behind this?

and

I wish I knew the reasoning behind why they say those things.  I can tell you I have received similar statements.  I struggled trying to make sense of it myself.  I have heard "you should be doing a dance we are all leaving you and you get the house to yourself".  I never said anything of the sort and never felt that way. She knows that I get anxiety when they are gone for a while.  The closest thing I can come up with it's projecting their thoughts?  Even the projection concept evades me with some topics.  Quite honestly I wonder if they know at times.  One thing for sure is in my case I have tried to to deny and correct those things with her to no avail.

comes from the National Educational Alliance for Borderline Personality Disorder (a reputable organization). In their overview, they write:

Borderline personality disorder (BPD) is a serious mental illness that centers on the inability to manage emotions effectively. The disorder occurs in the context of relationships: sometimes all relationships are affected, sometimes only one. It usually begins during adolescence or early adulthood.

While some persons with BPD are high functioning in certain settings, their private lives may be in turmoil. Most people who have BPD suffer from problems regulating their emotions and thoughts, impulsive and sometimes reckless behavior, and unstable relationships

We sometime struggle to make sense of a pwBPD's behavior because we're trying to make sense of it with a "generally normal" mind. We say things like -- why would he do that, doesn't he see that it's counterproductive? Or -- why would she say that to me, when it's the opposite of what she swore she felt this morning?

pwBPD use dysfunctional and low-skill approaches to get their emotional needs met. These approaches can extend far beyond what a "generally normal" person might think is okay or makes sense to solve an issue. So, it's very possible that if a pwBPD feels like she's being abandoned, in order to regulate the huge emotions going on inside, she might say something to provoke abandoning behavior (to make the inside feelings have an outer cause, which maybe is regulating?), or to pre-abandon the partner -- to hurt instead of be hurt. None of it makes "general" sense because, like NEABPD suggested, BPD is a serious mental health disorder that shows up strongly with emotional dysregulation in relationships, and that emotional dysregulation can be not only in crying/yelling/physical stuff, but in verbal statements as well.

What do you think?

[Collaguazo]

Hi kells76,

I think what you say is spot on. For a BPD the best defense is attacking, so when they have a fear of abandonment they will lash out.

My ex used to say those kind of statements when she was upset. Later she would apologize or be able to articulate correctly her feelings. Turns out she wanted to spend more time with me but instead of just saying it, she expected me to basically read her mind. She would also say she was afraid of sounding too needy or clingy…

In the end it’s so hard to understand because they are high functioning people (most cases).

[Simple80s]

Hi collaguazo,

Your comment has me thinking am I the problem, I feel like I snapped in response to being discarded? I was so annoyed in the end that I said everything that I was resentful about. It had been nearly two years of apologising for everything that I said everything on my mind. When I saw everything on my mind, I was rude and offensive, I was so annoyed at being dropped like I was disposable. Is that normal or could I be exhibiting the behaviours of bpd? I lashed out on abandonment.

I’m really confused at the moment. I feel so down it’s interfering with my sleep, work and everything. Do others feel confused if they were at fault solely? General consensus would suggest nobody is always at fault surely, I’m starting to doubt myself. I have a good friend offline that is getting quite annoyed I’m making excuses because of my feelings towards my ex. There were certainly some spiteful behaviours that I can’t explain away prior to being dumped but I’m the one that’s ended up reacting in the final act.

[Collaguazo]

Hi collaguazo,

Your comment has me thinking am I the problem, I feel like I snapped in response to being discarded? I was so annoyed in the end that I said everything that I was resentful about. It had been nearly two years of apologising for everything that I said everything on my mind. When I saw everything on my mind, I was rude and offensive, I was so annoyed at being dropped like I was disposable. Is that normal or could I be exhibiting the behaviours of bpd? I lashed out on abandonment.

I’m really confused at the moment. I feel so down it’s interfering with my sleep, work and everything. Do others feel confused if they were at fault solely? General consensus would suggest nobody is always at fault surely, I’m starting to doubt myself. I have a good friend offline that is getting quite annoyed I’m making excuses because of my feelings towards my ex. There were certainly some spiteful behaviours that I can’t explain away prior to being dumped but I’m the one that’s ended up reacting in the final act.

Yeah the feeling of being discarded is one of the worst there is. It happened to me on a previous relationship and it was really hard to get over it. I also snapped and the feeling of guilt consumed me for a long time.

With my exBPD I came close of just letting all out but based on my previous experience I somehow managed not to. Man, they really know how to push your buttons and hit you were it hurts the most.

Nonetheless, I still feel a bit guilty. My ex was really abusive towards the end but she still had that vulnerability around her that really makes you want to “save” her and wonder if perhaps I could have done more for her.

Logically, I know I was good with her, did my best and also made some mistakes, just like everybody else. But the mind can play you some dirty tricks, maybe nostalgia, and make you feel like she was almost perfect and you were the one who ruined everything.

[Simple80s]

It is normal to still want to try reconcile? I feel like if the relationship wasn’t so one sided with regard to working through differences it would be worth investing in.
It’s really tiring I know but for those other periods, how much better can relationships be with greater appreciation around abandonment concerns and even with couples counselling?

I think I’ve raised this in the wrong forum asking such questions now. I’m somewhat resigned as I’ve been blocked but I hope that’s temporary, I don’t think it is though. Something is telling me it’s over over. Is there anything I can do?

[kells76]

Hey Simple80s;

It is normal to still want to try reconcile? I feel like if the relationship wasn’t so one sided with regard to working through differences it would be worth investing in.
It’s really tiring I know but for those other periods, how much better can relationships be with greater appreciation around abandonment concerns and even with couples counselling?

From what I've heard, yes, that can be pretty normal. You're not alone here on Detaching -- other members have also had your questions. I wonder if it's possible that the desire to reconcile could be part of your grieving process -- what do you think?

I think I’ve raised this in the wrong forum asking such questions now. I’m somewhat resigned as I’ve been blocked but I hope that’s temporary, I don’t think it is though. Something is telling me it’s over over. Is there anything I can do?

No worries -- that's why this site has different boards for different topics. It's OK to reassess where you're at and what you want. If it's helpful, people on Detaching, whether they chose to break up or whether the breakup happened to them, generally are somewhere in the process of Detaching From the Wounds of a Failed BPD Relationship (check it out if you haven't had a chance yet, there's a ton of info and lessons in there). People posting on the Bettering a Relationship board, whether the partner is cooperative or not, are working on making personal changes and learning new tools and skills to give the relationship (if/when it happens) the best possible chance.

Like you mentioned, while you wish you could reconcile and have another chance, part of you also recognizes that something may be different about this time, and you have decided you aren't willing to wait forever for things to be better.

So maybe a helpful question for you could be -- no matter what she does or doesn't do in the future, what do you want, going forward? It's OK to want to have "one more shot", and if so, you could try the Bettering A Relationship board, as a place to work on yourself and "play the best of the cards you've been dealt". It's also OK to decide that you are choosing for yourself to be done, and to spend time here on Detaching processing your feelings about the end of the relationship.

Hopefully that helps. You're among friends here;

kells76

[NarcsEverywhere]

Simple80s, I think you know, you're apologizing a lot, reflecting a lot, taking responsibility a lot. Is she? No. Chances are you're apologizing for things that are not your fault a ton, because of guilt trips, and sacrificing your dignity and self respect every time. Personally, I'd rather make mistakes by missing my own behavior, when it's someone who has the disorder, especially when I'm already inclined to realize and correct my mistakes. You seem like you're too hard on yourself to be honest. Not everything can be your fault, and no one is ever "a problem". I've had that thought come into my head so many times, as I get gaslit and isolated, and it's always dispelled when I think things through, with the knowledge I have about the disorders.

Honest people, with good intentions, own up to their stuff, and they have the intention of improving things. People who are selfish play games, she's playing a ton of games, confusing games, that tug on your heart, based on your post history. Hope you find some solace soon.

[Simple80s]

Thank you all for your support. I still feel conflicted unfortunately, I’m a stuck state.

Would like the relationship to work if and only if the manipulative aspects and communication issues are actively worked on. That however makes me feel like such a fool; dumped and hoping someone is willing to put in some work to save something they don’t appear to care at all about.

The silent treatments escalated into rounds of blocking have really taken a lot from my self esteem and left a nervousness within me. The one sided nature of each repair effort left me feeling so tired.

I’ve always tried to do the right things by people in my life, the concern my partner might deliberately try and hurt me scares and confuses me because I don’t understand the motive. When I think more positively I still hold a sense of loyalty and want to do right that I can even feel strength from my compassion. (As I write this paragraph I can see my stuck dynamic)

If I was to try reach out, will I do more harm than good? Show vulnerability and strength, understanding of the pattern and a thoughtful path to improve.

[Augustine]

I’ve experienced two such relationships.  One was low-functioning, and the other was high.

The low-functioning person was completely ill-suited to anything other than short-term relationships.  Beyond 7 months, she would dysregulate, and disappear for months at a time.

The high-functioning one was the worst of the two, as the abandonment fears override the desire to flee when the dysregulation occurs, so you get to witness them at their worst.  Yay…

Both relationships were about as much fun as a bout of amoebic dysentery. 

They are the limiting reagent in the relational equation, and without  sincere and concerted efforts to at least curb their excesses, you stand a better chance flying to the moon strapped to a giant banana than ever having a semblance of a normal life with them.

Remember that they are impulsive, have low executive functioning, and make decisions based on emotional reasoning.  Not a great basis for a healthy union. 

Oh, and the rage sessions seem to get progressively worse over time…and the splitting. 

I was happy to leave, but recovering from these relationships is utter hell on earth.  So much so that before long you wish for a reconciliation. 

A word of warning, having been through a number of BPD reconciliations, be careful what you wish for..

[Collaguazo]

I’ve always tried to do the right things by people in my life, the concern my partner might deliberately try and hurt me scares and confuses me because I don’t understand the motive. When I think more positively I still hold a sense of loyalty and want to do right that I can even feel strength from my compassion. (As I write this paragraph I can see my stuck dynamic)

If I was to try reach out, will I do more harm than good? Show vulnerability and strength, understanding of the pattern and a thoughtful path to improve.

This hit hard, I am also stuck in the same spot. When I try to move past the anger phase, that sense of loyalty and compassion pulls me back. Then I remember all the hurtful things she said and the abuse I had to endure and the anger comes back.

I have also considered reaching out, but as others have recommended, it can open a door for an idealization and devaluation cycle once again.

At least with my ex, I am 90% sure, that if I show vulnerability she will try to inflict as much pain as possible.

[Azrael]

Thanks Huntinfool, with those parameters I’m less optimistic and something inside tells me that this time is different. It was really cold.

I’m pleased to hear that you still have the opportunity for your wife to see you for your qualities. I would encourage you to make those shine and hope she is aware enough to see them.

I have some good fortune in my life for a while now outside of the relationship which I have to continue growing. I guess I need to rework my idea of the near to medium at least, get out of the fog as you mention as best possible. Feels like I’ve been future faked, ideas of starting a family and moving in together etc.

I’m so confused, I dropped the ball with this. My pride and a sense of residual resentment for always taking blame collided to where I spoke my mind in defence after a week of accusations, I think I’ve been blacked indefinitely. Things that keep me confused and concerned it’s over OVER, is prior to breaking up with me via text was how incongruent everything seems leading up to it, I wonder if I was actually being replaced or if it’s just more attempts to get a reaction of some kind.

Does anyone know if people with BPD deliberately attempt to induce jealousy from there partner? Perhaps as a way to check they still care.

  Yes, people with BPD will constantly try to induce jealousy, and they lie ALL the time. It is called a talionic response. Contrary to what many think, that is not consciously, I have found by reading many cases of pwBPD that they are actually VERY conscious of ALL the acts they do in talionic response. They actually ENJOY them, and it gives them internal happyness. One of these BPD was so so bad, that her inner child exteriorized it(once you learn WHEN is their inner child talking, you will catch most of their behavioral pattern phrases), and she told me " it gives me happyness , that I can make you feel bad, like I felt before for what you said". These people border on schizophrenia, that is where the name comes from. Stop trying to put the blame on you. We are fighting against a very hard mental sickness that none of us have the potential to help, if the person itself is not seeking active help, and have recognized that they are pwBPD.

[Collaguazo]

  Yes, people with BPD will constantly try to induce jealousy, and they lie ALL the time. It is called a talionic response. Contrary to what many think, that is not consciously, I have found by reading many cases of pwBPD that they are actually VERY conscious of ALL the acts they do in talionic response. They actually ENJOY them, and it gives them internal happyness. One of these BPD was so so bad, that her inner child exteriorized it(once you learn WHEN is their inner child talking, you will catch most of their behavioral pattern phrases), and she told me " it gives me happyness , that I can make you feel bad, like I felt before for what you said". These people border on schizophrenia, that is where the name comes from. Stop trying to put the blame on you. We are fighting against a very hard mental sickness that none of us have the potential to help, if the person itself is not seeking active help, and have recognized that they are pwBPD.

When I told my ex that I am not jealous as a boyfriend I might as well signed my death sentence. She hold onto that until the very end.

What you mention about the inner child is also very interesting. With my ex it came out during her rage episodes and I eventually recognized the pattern. I could write them on a piece of paper, get in contact and her answers are gonna match almost exactly.

IMO I do think that learning about BPD can be a double edged sword, specially in a romantic relationship, since it can give you the impression that their illness is manageable, which can lead to further frustration and pain ( I certainly fell for this). However, once you really understand it, you see how serious it is and how even professionals can struggle with these patients.

[Augustine]

When I told my ex that I am not jealous as a boyfriend I might as well signed my death sentence. She hold onto that until the very end.

What you mention about the inner child is also very interesting. With my ex it came out during her rage episodes and I eventually recognized the pattern. I could write them on a piece of paper, get in contact and her answers are gonna match almost exactly.

IMO I do think that learning about BPD can be a double edged sword, specially in a romantic relationship, since it can give you the impression that their illness is manageable, which can lead to further frustration and pain ( I certainly fell for this). However, once you really understand it, you see how serious it is and how even professionals can struggle with these patients.

I discovered the pattern very late in the relationship, and I successfully ended the arguments she deliberately started by not participating, telling her that I wasn’t going to have an argument with her, and that if something was bothering her, I was happy to have a quiet conversation about things instead. This strategy really took her by surprise, and her future attempts at creating arguments over nothing ended as quickly as they began with this technique.

If she became too worked up over anything, I’d walk away, and that seemed to diffuse her anger as well.

One incident in particular stood out.  This occurred before I discovered my method of de escalation. She had started an argument, and was building up considerable steam.  We had a security camera in the house, and at one point when she was foaming at the mouth, I turned to her and said, “The security camera is picking all of this up.”  The argument stopped instantly.

As you so correctly point out, all of this gives you the mistaken impression that you can manage the illness.  You can’t. It just makes things worse. 

In my case, because she was no longer able to get her needs met through arguments, her symptoms just worsened everywhere else, and within two months of cottoning on to my de escalation technique, she went right off the rails one night, and that was the end of everything.

At the end, I was so fed up that it felt like a blessing to leave her.

[SinisterComplex]

When I told my ex that I am not jealous as a boyfriend I might as well signed my death sentence. She hold onto that until the very end.

What you mention about the inner child is also very interesting. With my ex it came out during her rage episodes and I eventually recognized the pattern. I could write them on a piece of paper, get in contact and her answers are gonna match almost exactly.

IMO I do think that learning about BPD can be a double edged sword, specially in a romantic relationship, since it can give you the impression that their illness is manageable, which can lead to further frustration and pain ( I certainly fell for this). However, once you really understand it, you see how serious it is and how even professionals can struggle with these patients.

Learning and educating yourself about BPD is something I recommend for many because it is such a misunderstood disorder. It is typically misdiagnosed (confused with cPTSD a lot). BPD requires much more than most people are willing to put the time in for. There are no guarantees a sufferer will get better, but it is possible. It is just a long, hard, arduous road.

Additionally, even educating yourself about BPD you have to understand that this is not just a disorder. People with real true BPD literally have a physically different brain and they are wired differently than the normal average person who is considered to be a Neurotypical. So to that end, it is important to look at BPD both from the psychological perspective and neurological perspective.

However, it is important to keep in mind that broad generalizations are not the way to go either. People with BPD are still people and they are still individuals so while there will be some similarities there will be many differences as well. How the disorder manifests, how it is triggered, etc.

In your dealings with people I would say the best way to approach things is to have firm boundaries and to get more comfortable being firm and indifferent. Why? If you would treat your friend who is normal the same way as you do as a friend who has BPD than the BPD isn't the problem. You don't give the beast power. You make that less of a factor and judge the person based on who they are and if they cross your boundaries then set the expectations of what the consequences will be and then you stick to them...period!

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-  

[Collaguazo]

Hi SinisterComplex,

Yes, I fully agree about educating yourself about BPD, really understanding it and learning the most you can. It’s just that in my case, at the beginning, I made the mistake of underestimating the disorder and got only a broad idea of it. This made me think I could manage it, which of course didn’t work and led to more frustration and pain on my side.

I discovered the pattern very late in the relationship, and I successfully ended the arguments she deliberately started by not participating, telling her that I wasn’t going to have an argument with her, and that if something was bothering her, I was happy to have a quiet conversation about things instead. This strategy really took her by surprise, and her future attempts at creating arguments over nothing ended as quickly as they began with this technique.

If she became too worked up over anything, I’d walk away, and that seemed to diffuse her anger as well.

Unfortunately with my ex, these techniques had the opposite effect. If I gave her space to calm down she only got angrier because that meant I didn’t “care” about her. Same if I tried to walk away. And if she walked away, she would get mad because I didn’t chase her. During an argument, if I tried to be understanding and calm, somehow she took this as if I was mocking her and she became more upset. She always had to take me to the limit until I burst into tears.

But the worst, was the day after an argument/fight. Even if we said good night in relative calm terms, she woke up 10x more upset and hurt. She maximized everything for the worst after she had supposedly done a better “analysis” of what had happened the day before. Those days were absolute hell.

[Augustine]

Hi SinisterComplex,

Yes, I fully agree about educating yourself about BPD, really understanding it and learning the most you can. It’s just that in my case, at the beginning, I made the mistake of underestimating the disorder and got only a broad idea of it. This made me think I could manage it, which of course didn’t work and led to more frustration and pain on my side.

Unfortunately with my ex, these techniques had the opposite effect. If I gave her space to calm down she only got angrier because that meant I didn’t “care” about her. Same if I tried to walk away. And if she walked away, she would get mad because I didn’t chase her. During an argument, if I tried to be understanding and calm, somehow she took this as if I was mocking her and she became more upset. She always had to take me to the limit until I burst into tears.

But the worst, was the day after an argument/fight. Even if we said good night in relative calm terms, she woke up 10x more upset and hurt. She maximized everything for the worst after she had supposedly done a better “analysis” of what had happened the day before. Those days were absolute hell.

You clearly have a very strong constitution, and have amazing stamina.  I would have buckled under that kind of strain. 

The degree of your interest and efforts points to someone highly conscientious, and this is a very commendable trait to possess.

I hope you will one day find someone worthy of your strengths and devotion. 

[capecodling]

I discovered the pattern very late in the relationship, and I successfully ended the arguments she deliberately started by not participating, telling her that I wasn’t going to have an argument with her, and that if something was bothering her, I was happy to have a quiet conversation about things instead. This strategy really took her by surprise, and her future attempts at creating arguments over nothing ended as quickly as they began with this technique.

If she became too worked up over anything, I’d walk away, and that seemed to diffuse her anger as well.

One incident in particular stood out.  This occurred before I discovered my method of de escalation. She had started an argument, and was building up considerable steam.  We had a security camera in the house, and at one point when she was foaming at the mouth, I turned to her and said, “The security camera is picking all of this up.”  The argument stopped instantly.

As you so correctly point out, all of this gives you the mistaken impression that you can manage the illness.  You can’t. It just makes things worse.  

In my case, because she was no longer able to get her needs met through arguments, her symptoms just worsened everywhere else, and within two months of cottoning on to my de escalation technique, she went right off the rails one night, and that was the end of everything.

At the end, I was so fed up that it felt like a blessing to leave her.

That’s amazing how you found deescalation techniques that worked, and even with those the relationship still imploded.  The only thing I ever found that “worked” was when I would emotionally check out because she pushed too far on something - like one time I wasn’t going to help her do laundry because I needed to work — i had just bought her groceries that week for her and her children because she ran out of money (again) — anyways when I told her i needed to work, she got furiously angry and threatened to withold sex as punishment.  I told her that was absolutely unacceptable, we argued some more, she wouldn’t back down, and that incident was close to when I ended the relationship for good.  I just felt myself go cold towards her and pull away.  That was always when she would come back with the sweet version of herself again.  When in my heart and mind I was  over her, suddenly she would apologize and be reasonable again.  I’m not sure this was actually an “effective technique” on my part, rather more her love-bombing out of her own fear of abandonment.  Poor tortured soul she is to act the way she acted.

[capecodling]

But the worst, was the day after an argument/fight. Even if we said good night in relative calm terms, she woke up 10x more upset and hurt. She maximized everything for the worst after she had supposedly done a better “analysis” of what had happened the day before. Those days were absolute hell.

That sounds like hell.  At least with mine she would forget about her anger and be fine in a couple hours like nothing happened.  But she did seem to get worse and worse over time, so maybe there was a cumulative effect building up inside of her.  She really seemed to transform into a completely different person over the time I knew her — from sweet and agreeable and pleasant to mean and controlling and volatile.

[Augustine]

That’s amazing how you found deescalation techniques that worked, and even with those the relationship still imploded.  The only thing I ever found that “worked” was when I would emotionally check out because she pushed too far on something - like one time I wasn’t going to help her do laundry because I needed to work — i had just bought her groceries that week for her and her children because she ran out of money (again) — anyways when I told her i needed to work, she got furiously angry and threatened to withold sex as punishment.  I told her that was absolutely unacceptable, we argued some more, she wouldn’t back down, and that incident was close to when I ended the relationship for good.  I just felt myself go cold towards her and pull away.  That was always when she would come back with the sweet version of herself again.  When in my heart and mind I was  over her, suddenly she would apologize and be reasonable again.  I’m not sure this was actually an “effective technique” on my part, rather more her love-bombing out of her own fear of abandonment.  Poor tortured soul she is to act the way she acted.

Yes, nothing worked for long, and she would always find a work around solution to meet her needs.

You touched on the topic of sex.  To be frank, towards the end, the thought of being intimate with my partner made me feel nauseous, as her behaviours had been so disharmonious and incongruous.

Interestingly, she had confided in me early in our relationship that many of her exes lost interest in her sexually as well.  I really wish that I had paid more attention to her confessions back then.

I suppose that I was tremendously fortunate, in that I was in a sub conscious de escalation process myself, thoroughly exhausted by her company, and eager to find a safe passage out.  Towards the end, I was little more than a highly conscientious automaton going through my days by rote, rather than by interest or purpose.

When the opportunity to bolt for the exit appeared, I deliberated for a microsecond before running for safety.

[Collaguazo]

You clearly have a very strong constitution, and have amazing stamina.  I would have buckled under that kind of strain. 

The degree of your interest and efforts points to someone highly conscientious, and this is a very commendable trait to possess.

I hope you will one day find someone worthy of your strengths and devotion. 

Thanks Augustine for your kind words